I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4 feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes - but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the
pipes.

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 15:08:27 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4 feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

I think code now requires 6 or more feet and should have not been
smaller than 6awg coper, but I'm not beating up the details.


At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes - but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the
pipes.


IMHO:

I'm thinking you need to have the work looked at by a qualifed
electrician. The information you gave seems 'weird'. The bonding of
piping shouldn't require such thick cable. Unless you have some
monster water equipement.

Ok, now for some information. The cable going to ground rods aren't
sized to carry fault current. They are sized to stablize voltages
against transiants. The bonding of piping, and equipment(such as
ground wires in circuits) is designed to carry max ground fault
current back to the power source(the service panel, sub panel, etc)
and cause the over current protector (a breaker, fuse, etc) to open.
So you can see who one is to 'fix' voltage fluctuations, and the other
is to protect equipment and lives, which results in different concerns
(amps, etc).

Now this information was just an FYI, you need to have a qualified
electrician to check your system, if you have ANY concerns about it's
safety.

tom

"Tom The Great" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 15:08:27 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4 feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

I think code now requires 6 or more feet and should have not been
smaller than 6awg coper, but I'm not beating up the details.


At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes -
but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got
the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't
really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I
think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the
pipes.


IMHO:

I'm thinking you need to have the work looked at by a qualifed
electrician. The information you gave seems 'weird'. The bonding of
piping shouldn't require such thick cable. Unless you have some
monster water equipement.

Ok, now for some information. The cable going to ground rods aren't
sized to carry fault current. They are sized to stablize voltages
against transiants. The bonding of piping, and equipment(such as
ground wires in circuits) is designed to carry max ground fault
current back to the power source(the service panel, sub panel, etc)
and cause the over current protector (a breaker, fuse, etc) to open.
So you can see who one is to 'fix' voltage fluctuations, and the other
is to protect equipment and lives, which results in different concerns
(amps, etc).

Now this information was just an FYI, you need to have a qualified
electrician to check your system, if you have ANY concerns about it's
safety.

tom

The company that did the work was qualified and greatly respected in the
industry in my area. I trust the work they did. I may have the wire gauge
sizing off, it might in fact be 6 gauge, but I've never seen wire that thick
so I don't know for sure. All I know is that it wasn't 12 gauge or more. I
specified code work, he confirmed that everything he did was to code. I'm
not asking because I don't trust the work, but rather just out of curiosity.
Not slapping you down for answering so don't take offence, I'm merely
clarifying my position.

But your explanation of the purposes does help explain the sizing
differences to me.

Eigenvector wrote:
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the
two types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas
pipes - but for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires -
it was a HUGE copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground
got the single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that
is required for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he
didn't really explain why the bonding required such massive
wires. It's not like I think he cheated me on the copper, I trust
the company he works for and he did very good frugal work in the
panel. I just kind of want to know - why the difference in size? If
anything I would expect the situation to be reversed, the massive
cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the pipes.

First I don't know, nor did I look up the code. However I strongly
suggest that you always should follow the code, especially when you don't
understand why it is code. They don't write code without good reasons.

My guess (SWAG) is that at least some of those devices that are being
bypassed may be damaged by the leakage and the larger cable will make sure
the cable is the path of least resistance to protect them.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Manual Toothbrushes Manufacturer - Yangzhou Shuguang Toothbrush Factory
http://www.xanga.com/sgtoothbrush , http://www.sunrisebrush.com ,
http://www.chinabboss.com , http://20six.co.uk/sgtoothbrush ,
http://www.xanga.com/sunrisebrush , http://sgtoothbrush.livejournal.com

Wooden Cedar Shoe Trees & Insoles Manufacturer - China Toplevel
Co.,Limited
http://www.xanga.com/shoetrees , http://www.xanga.com/shoetree ,
http://www.toplevel.net.cn

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4 feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

When using two ground rods, they should be seperated by a minimum of 6 feet.
Also, 6 AWG wire is required when using
ground rods, not 10AWG. If the work is done "to code" then this is how it
should have been done.
Did they pull a permit? Better verify what they did and what wire sizes
they used.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes -
but for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

Correct. 4AWG is required for bonding the pipes.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got
the single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is
required for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he
didn't really explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's
not like I think he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works
for and he did very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to
know - why the difference in size? If anything I would expect the
situation to be reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the
small wire to the pipes.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4 feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.


The National Electrical Code requires that ground rods should be no less
than 6' apart. However tests have proven that ideally for two eight foot
ground rods a distance of 16' or more is best. I think that the minimum
wire size for supplementary ground rods is #6. Depending on the size of the
service your bonding jumpers can be #8 or #6.

I hope that this work will be inspected.



At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes -
but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got
the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't
really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I
think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the
pipes.

Eigenvector wrote:
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4 feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes - but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the
pipes.

NEC and engineering studies have determined that a ground rod cannot
dissipate any more electrons into the earth in a given time than can be
carried by a #6 copper wire, thus there is no need to use a wire larger
than a #6 copper for ground rod, pipe or plate electrodes.

Now I'm curious........what was used to ground your electric system
before all this?

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

When using two ground rods, they should be seperated by a minimum of 6
feet. Also, 6 AWG wire is required when using
ground rods, not 10AWG. If the work is done "to code" then this is how it
should have been done.
Did they pull a permit? Better verify what they did and what wire sizes
they used.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes -
but for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a
HUGE copper cable.

Correct. 4AWG is required for bonding the pipes.

You know I wasn't asking for a critique of the job, I was asking WHY the
size difference between the two. Or do you not know, but you felt compelled
to answer anyway?

In any case I got the answer I needed a couple posts back. Thanks for
responding.


When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got
the single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is
required for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he
didn't really explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's
not like I think he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he
works for and he did very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of
want to know - why the difference in size? If anything I would expect
the situation to be reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and
the small wire to the pipes.

"volts500" wrote in message
oups.com...
Eigenvector wrote:
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes -
but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got
the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't
really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I
think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why
the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the
pipes.

NEC and engineering studies have determined that a ground rod cannot
dissipate any more electrons into the earth in a given time than can be
carried by a #6 copper wire, thus there is no need to use a wire larger
than a #6 copper for ground rod, pipe or plate electrodes.

Now I'm curious........what was used to ground your electric system
before all this?


The galvanized pipes. Basically nothing.

Eigenvector wrote:
"volts500" wrote in message
oups.com...
Eigenvector wrote:
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes -
but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got
the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't
really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I
think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why
the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to the
pipes.
NEC and engineering studies have determined that a ground rod cannot
dissipate any more electrons into the earth in a given time than can be
carried by a #6 copper wire, thus there is no need to use a wire larger
than a #6 copper for ground rod, pipe or plate electrodes.

Now I'm curious........what was used to ground your electric system
before all this?


The galvanized pipes. Basically nothing.



The galvanized pipes were undoubtedly connected to an underground metal
water pipe that was metal to metal connected to a metal well casing or a
public water system consisting of literally miles of pipe and you call
that nothing. Underground metal water pipes of significant length or
depth make a much better grounding electrode than those two driven rods
you are asking about. The entire purpose of the two driven metal ground
rods is to provide a backup to the water piping in case it is opened
during plumbing work or replaced with plastic during a future repair.
If your entire home were piped with plastic so that there was no
metallic piping inside the home and the only metal piping was the
underground metal water piping that supplies the building the code would
still require that underground metal water piping of twenty or more feet
in length be used as a grounding electrode.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

"Tom Horne, Electrician" wrote in message
nk.net...
Eigenvector wrote:
"volts500" wrote in message
oups.com...
Eigenvector wrote:
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas
pipes - but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground
got the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is
required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't
really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I
think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he
did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why
the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to
the
pipes.
NEC and engineering studies have determined that a ground rod cannot
dissipate any more electrons into the earth in a given time than can be
carried by a #6 copper wire, thus there is no need to use a wire larger
than a #6 copper for ground rod, pipe or plate electrodes.

Now I'm curious........what was used to ground your electric system
before all this?


The galvanized pipes. Basically nothing.

The galvanized pipes were undoubtedly connected to an underground metal
water pipe that was metal to metal connected to a metal well casing or a
public water system consisting of literally miles of pipe and you call
that nothing. Underground metal water pipes of significant length or
depth make a much better grounding electrode than those two driven rods
you are asking about. The entire purpose of the two driven metal ground
rods is to provide a backup to the water piping in case it is opened
during plumbing work or replaced with plastic during a future repair. If
your entire home were piped with plastic so that there was no metallic
piping inside the home and the only metal piping was the underground metal
water piping that supplies the building the code would still require that
underground metal water piping of twenty or more feet in length be used as
a grounding electrode.
--
Tom Horne

I see where you are coming from, and I have a feeling that this has been
discussed at length ad nauseum, but I'm gonna ask anyway.

The supply pipes feeding my house are plastic not metal (I've been watching
them install them all summer long, those 6"+ blue/green nylon plastic
pipes. - I'm presuming those are water mains, I guess they could be sewer
lines too but sewer lines are concrete usually. So how would bonding to the
water mains help there? At that point there is no metal pathway except from
my house to the meter. Not that I'm disputing your claim mind you, when I
convert my house to PEX I still intend on having the inlet cold water pipe
be copper - if only so that it's solid and secure. But if the water mains
are plastic pipe, how would my house be bonded then?

Anyways we're getting off track here, so if you want to just point me in a
good direction I can take it from there so we don't have to go over this
topic again.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

When using two ground rods, they should be seperated by a minimum of 6
feet. Also, 6 AWG wire is required when using
ground rods, not 10AWG. If the work is done "to code" then this is how
it should have been done.
Did they pull a permit? Better verify what they did and what wire sizes
they used.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas pipes -
but for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a
HUGE copper cable.

Correct. 4AWG is required for bonding the pipes.

You know I wasn't asking for a critique of the job, I was asking WHY the
size difference between the two. Or do you not know, but you felt
compelled to answer anyway?

In any case I got the answer I needed a couple posts back. Thanks for
responding.


When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground got
the single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is
required for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he
didn't really explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's
not like I think he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he
works for and he did very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of
want to know - why the difference in size? If anything I would expect
the situation to be reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and
the small wire to the pipes.

Sorry, didn't mean to make you mad, that wasn't the intent. I was just
pointing out what
the code requirements are vs. the information you supplied. I felt it was
more important to
point out a potentially unsafe situation than to state the reason for
differing wire sizes.
sorry.

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"J.A. Michel" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

When using two ground rods, they should be seperated by a minimum of 6
feet. Also, 6 AWG wire is required when using
ground rods, not 10AWG. If the work is done "to code" then this is how
it should have been done.
Did they pull a permit? Better verify what they did and what wire sizes
they used.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas
pipes - but for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it
was a HUGE copper cable.

Correct. 4AWG is required for bonding the pipes.

You know I wasn't asking for a critique of the job, I was asking WHY the
size difference between the two. Or do you not know, but you felt
compelled to answer anyway?

In any case I got the answer I needed a couple posts back. Thanks for
responding.


When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground
got the single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that
is required for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But
he didn't really explain why the bonding required such massive wires.
It's not like I think he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company
he works for and he did very good frugal work in the panel. I just
kind of want to know - why the difference in size? If anything I would
expect the situation to be reversed, the massive cable to the ground
rods and the small wire to the pipes.

Sorry, didn't mean to make you mad, that wasn't the intent. I was just
pointing out what
the code requirements are vs. the information you supplied. I felt it was
more important to
point out a potentially unsafe situation than to state the reason for
differing wire sizes.
sorry.
This is a newsgroup - it's filled with people that I've either ****ed off,
offended, insulted, or harassed.

So far as I'm concerned - everything that occurs here is water under the
bridge when the day is done.

On 2006-12-26, Eigenvector wrote:

The supply pipes feeding my house are plastic not metal (I've been watching
them install them all summer long, those 6"+ blue/green nylon plastic
pipes. - I'm presuming those are water mains, I guess they could be sewer
lines too but sewer lines are concrete usually.

A 6" diameter pipe leading to an individual residence will be a sewer
pipe, not a water pipe. A water pipe will be 1" plus or minus.

Cheers, Wayne

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
On 2006-12-26, Eigenvector wrote:

The supply pipes feeding my house are plastic not metal (I've been
watching
them install them all summer long, those 6"+ blue/green nylon plastic
pipes. - I'm presuming those are water mains, I guess they could be sewer
lines too but sewer lines are concrete usually.

A 6" diameter pipe leading to an individual residence will be a sewer
pipe, not a water pipe. A water pipe will be 1" plus or minus.

Cheers, Wayne

Well at least now I know my drinking water isn't as bad as I'd thought.

NEC and engineering studies have determined that a ground rod cannot
dissipate any more electrons into the earth in a given time than can be
carried by a #6 copper wire, thus there is no need to use a wire larger
than a #6 copper for ground rod, pipe or plate electrodes.

Now I'm curious........what was used to ground your electric system
before all this?


Does NEC do engineering studies like this? I see #4/0 and 250MCM bonded to
ground rods and loops designed by system power engineers. Commercial or
industrial facilities may have a grounded fault of 200,000A or more so do
you really want to use #6?

Eigenvector wrote:
"Tom Horne, Electrician" wrote in message
nk.net...
Eigenvector wrote:
"volts500" wrote in message
oups.com...
Eigenvector wrote:
I asked the electrician why there was such a difference between the two
types of wires but never got an answer other than "It's code".

So when I had my earth ground installed in my panel, 2 ground rods ~4
feet
apart with a 10 gauge wire connected between them and the panel.

At the same time he installed bonding for the hot, cold, and gas
pipes - but
for this he used like 5 twisted strand 10 gauge wires - it was a HUGE
copper cable.

When I asked why the bonding got the big cables and the earth ground
got the
single 10 gauge he mentioned that 10 gauge is really all that is
required
for good solid ground and that's what code called for. But he didn't
really
explain why the bonding required such massive wires. It's not like I
think
he cheated me on the copper, I trust the company he works for and he
did
very good frugal work in the panel. I just kind of want to know - why
the
difference in size? If anything I would expect the situation to be
reversed, the massive cable to the ground rods and the small wire to
the
pipes.
NEC and engineering studies have determined that a ground rod cannot
dissipate any more electrons into the earth in a given time than can be
carried by a #6 copper wire, thus there is no need to use a wire larger
than a #6 copper for ground rod, pipe or plate electrodes.

Now I'm curious........what was used to ground your electric system
before all this?

The galvanized pipes. Basically nothing.
The galvanized pipes were undoubtedly connected to an underground metal
water pipe that was metal to metal connected to a metal well casing or a
public water system consisting of literally miles of pipe and you call
that nothing. Underground metal water pipes of significant length or
depth make a much better grounding electrode than those two driven rods
you are asking about. The entire purpose of the two driven metal ground
rods is to provide a backup to the water piping in case it is opened
during plumbing work or replaced with plastic during a future repair. If
your entire home were piped with plastic so that there was no metallic
piping inside the home and the only metal piping was the underground metal
water piping that supplies the building the code would still require that
underground metal water piping of twenty or more feet in length be used as
a grounding electrode.
--
Tom Horne

I see where you are coming from, and I have a feeling that this has been
discussed at length ad nauseum, but I'm gonna ask anyway.

The supply pipes feeding my house are plastic not metal (I've been watching
them install them all summer long, those 6"+ blue/green nylon plastic
pipes. - I'm presuming those are water mains, I guess they could be sewer
lines too but sewer lines are concrete usually. So how would bonding to the
water mains help there? At that point there is no metal pathway except from
my house to the meter. Not that I'm disputing your claim mind you, when I
convert my house to PEX I still intend on having the inlet cold water pipe
be copper - if only so that it's solid and secure. But if the water mains
are plastic pipe, how would my house be bonded then?

Anyways we're getting off track here, so if you want to just point me in a
good direction I can take it from there so we don't have to go over this
topic again.



If your house is more then eight feet from the water line the metal
service lateral will be longer then eight feet. Since it's entire
length is installed below the frost depth it is at least likely to be a
better electrode than the two eight foot long driven rods.

Be advised that many larger diameters of underground piping can be
purchased with plastic linings and coatings. What appears to be plastic
piping may be coated steal.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

# Fred # wrote:

Does NEC do engineering studies like this? I see #4/0 and 250MCM bonded to
ground rods and loops designed by system power engineers. Commercial or
industrial facilities may have a grounded fault of 200,000A or more so do
you really want to use #6?

Do you really want to ground such a system with just a ground rod?
Such systems usually use building steel and underground metal water
pipes as the primary grounding electrode(s). Yes, as you stated, such
systems do require the primary grounding electrode conductor to be
larger, as do _houses_ when the primary grounding electrode is an
undergound metal water pipe. However, even on those large systems, the
sole connection to a ground rod is still only required to be a #6
copper, per (2002) NEC 250.66(A). You can connect a 250 MCM to a
ground rod on such systems if you want, even Cadweld it, but it still
won't dissipate any more electrons to ground than a #6 because of the
limitations of the ground rod itself, as determined by engineering
studies. IMHO, that's why ground rods suck, while they are better than
nothing. Driving them deeper helps too.

For residential, 200 amps and below, IMO, it's easier to install bare
#4 for the entire system ground, even for ground rods, because it
avoids confusion and mostly because #4 doesn't require physical
protection.

The OP wanted to know why a _smaller_ wire was ran to the ground rod.
Sorry for not being clear.

wrote:

I imagine he is talking about the pipe at the street
Green pipe is sewer, blue pipe is potable water, purple pipe is
recycled water.

Recycled water?? That's a new one for me. Where does it come from &
where does it go?

"Red" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

I imagine he is talking about the pipe at the street
Green pipe is sewer, blue pipe is potable water, purple pipe is
recycled water.

Recycled water?? That's a new one for me. Where does it come from &
where does it go?

I've never seen purple pipe, nor recycled water, but I would imagine he is
talking about greywater. Used for watering the lawn, garden, etc..

they're too stupid to know the difference down there. That's obvious.

--
Steve Barker

wrote in message
...
.. Imagine how many people have peed in
the river by the time it gets to New Orleans.