I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it evens out in the end.
Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've searched online and found these guys Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner | Heating Services | Aramendia
but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I start ringing around.

On 9/25/2013 8:43 AM, ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got
an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know
whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it
evens out in the end.
Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've
searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner
| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)
but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I
start ringing around.

it depends upon your local energy prices. right now, natural gas is
probably cheapest, unless you have enough solar to run your boiler.

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:43:17 AM UTC-4, ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got

an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.

I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know

whether to go for gas or electric.

I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it

evens out in the end.

Electric at 100% isn't that much more efficient than a new
high efficiency 90%+ boiler to make up for the huge
difference in energy prices, unless you're living somewhere
with unusual prices for energy. Also, you have a gas boiler,
so electric what? Resistance to heat the water? Never seen
that done for a whole house. Heat pump? That makes more
sense from an energy standpoint, but I don't think heat pumps
can heat water to the temp typical baseboard heat needs.
And even if it does, you're looking at a much higher cost
that a new gas boiler. Most logical thing is going to be
a new high eff gas boiler.

But what about AC? If that is a consideration, switching to
a gas furnace/AC system would give you heat and AC, but that
is obviously going to cost a lot more because I presume the
house has no duct system. How much that would cost depends
on how the house is constructed and how hard or easy it would
be to run the ducts.

"ChloeP" wrote in message
...

I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got
an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know
whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it
evens out in the end.
Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've
searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner
| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)
but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I
start ringing around


Ground source heat pump?
Also can be reversilbe for cooling.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:43:17 +0200, ChloeP
wrote:

Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area.

Have you considered asking a neighbor or what about your real estate
agent that you used when you bought the home?

On 9/25/2013 11:43 AM, ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got
an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know
whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it
evens out in the end.

First choice is gas if it is available. I'd stick with oil before going
to electric, at least at our rates.

I put in a new boiler a few years back. Based on degree days, I'm
saving 39% on my oil bill compared to the old setup This is what I have
http://www.energykinetics.com/
In my case, paying for itself just from oil savings.

On 09/25/2013 11:43 AM, ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got
an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know
whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it
evens out in the end.
Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've
searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner
| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)
but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I
start ringing around.


I can't imagine any possible scenario when electric is more efficient
than *anything*.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Chloe:

20 years old is an old gas fired furnace.
20 years old is a young cast iron boiler.

Where I live, it's common to see hot water heating boilers that are 100 years old and still going strong.

Why would you want to replace an old heating boiler in the Houston area. You only use that thing for a couple of months at the most each year, so despite the fact that it's not nearly as efficient as the newer equipment, it still doesn't cost you much to operate because you don't use it all that much.

Yes, a new boiler will be more efficient. But it'll also cost a lot more to repair because heating companies know they're a lot more complex to diagnose problems with them, and so most homeowners just pick up the phone and open up their wallet. The heating contractor just takes as much as he wants cuz he knows that you wouldn't have known what to do to fix it yourself. With older boilers, half the handymen on this forum could tell you what's wrong if you explain the problem to them.

Unless there's a solid reason for wanting to replace this boiler, I'd think twice about that decision. You'd be better off just using what you have for all the heat a house in Houston needs in the winter, and given what a new high efficiency boiler will cost you.

But, a properly maintained cast iron boiler will last longer than grandma, so 20 years is NOT an old boiler, and replacing it just to save on fuel costs in a place like Houston is a money losing decision.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 15:14:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/25/2013 11:43 AM, ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got
an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know
whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it
evens out in the end.

First choice is gas if it is available. I'd stick with oil before going
to electric, at least at our rates.

A heat pump may be a reasonable alternative but probably not for a
hydronic system (perhaps a mini-split, though).

I put in a new boiler a few years back. Based on degree days, I'm
saving 39% on my oil bill compared to the old setup This is what I have
http://www.energykinetics.com/
In my case, paying for itself just from oil savings.

I was never happier when I dumped oil for natural gas (conversion
burner), even though fuel wasn't any cheaper.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:40:39 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 09/25/2013 11:43 AM, ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got
an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know
whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it
evens out in the end.
Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've
searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner
| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)
but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I
start ringing around.


I can't imagine any possible scenario when electric is more efficient
than *anything*.

More "efficient", easy. Cheaper, not likely. It comes down to
defining what you mean by "efficiency". If you use the normal
definition of efficiency, Kw(out)/Kw(in), there is nothing more
efficient than electric but efficiency isn't all it's cracked up to
be. ;-)

On 9/25/2013 4:52 PM, nestork wrote:

20 years old is an old gas fired furnace.
20 years old is a young cast iron boiler.

Where I live, it's common to see hot water heating boilers that are 100
years old and still going strong.

Those 100 year old boilers will probably outlast some of the 20 yo.
I've seen quite a few 25 - 30 yo being replaced for various failures.


But, a properly maintained cast iron boiler will last longer than
grandma, so 20 years is NOT an old boiler, and replacing it just to save
on fuel costs in a place like Houston is a money losing decision.



You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to
consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good condition.

I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.

I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design than one that burns gas.

So, I really don't think you can change an oil fired boiler into one that would burn gas in an economical way. That is, I expect it would be cheaper to buy a gas fired boiler than convert an oil fired boiler into one that will burn gas.

Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm. So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some form of gas storage facility on your property.


But, in any event, a 20 year old cast iron boiler can last another 80 to 100 years if properly maintained. Longer if it's a popular brand and your local heating contractors stockpile parts for it. If this boiler were in Winnipeg, the economics of replacing it with a higher efficiency model might start to make economic sense based on the fuel savings. But, in Houston, where "winter" is the last two weeks of January when you might put on a sweater before going outside, replacing a perfectly good boiler with a high efficiency boiler to "save on fuel costs" is crazy. You're going to spend far more money on the new boiler than you're ever going to save in fuel costs.

And, on top of that, your average 20 year old boiler is pretty simple and every heating contractor in town is going to know how to repair it. A high efficiency boiler will have it's own computer to determine when and how it comes on and how it operates. So, if it's not working properly, only the heating companies in town that sell that make of boiler are going to be able to diagnose what's wrong with it. They know they know they have the customer over a barrel and charge accordingly for their services to repair it.

If I were in the OP's boots, I'd keep the existing boiler in their basement and keep the money that a new high efficiency boiler would cost in the bank so that when something crops up that really needs to be done, they have the money to do it. This way they're spending a pile of money in an effort to save $20 per year, and they leave themselves exposed to potentially having to borrow money if something else crops up that, unlike the boiler, really needs to be done.

"nestork" wrote in message
...

Ed Pawlowski;3126413 Wrote:

You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to
consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good
condition.

I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired
boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers
where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.

I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use
burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid
and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My
understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that
pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist
so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference
alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design
than one that burns gas.

So, I really don't think you can change an oil fired boiler into one
that would burn gas in an economical way. That is, I expect it would be
cheaper to buy a gas fired boiler than convert an oil fired boiler into
one that will burn gas.

Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in
rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil
companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your
property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm.
So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's
no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some
form of gas storage facility on your property.


But, in any event, a 20 year old cast iron boiler can last another 80 to
100 years if properly maintained. Longer if it's a popular brand and
your local heating contractors stockpile parts for it. If this boiler
were in Winnipeg, the economics of replacing it with a higher efficiency
model might start to make economic sense based on the fuel savings.
But, in Houston, where "winter" is the last two weeks of January when
you might put on a sweater before going outside, replacing a perfectly
good boiler with a high efficiency boiler to "save on fuel costs" is
crazy. You're going to spend far more money on the new boiler than
you're ever going to save in fuel costs.

And, on top of that, your average 20 year old boiler is pretty simple
and every heating contractor in town is going to know how to repair it.
A high efficiency boiler will have it's own computer to determine when
and how it comes on and how it operates. So, if it's not working
properly, only the heating companies in town that sell that make of
boiler are going to be able to diagnose what's wrong with it. They know
they know they have the customer over a barrel and charge accordingly
for their services to repair it.

If I were in the OP's boots, I'd keep the existing boiler in their
basement and keep the money that a new high efficiency boiler would cost
in the bank so that when something crops up that really needs to be
done, they have the money to do it. This way they're spending a pile of
money in an effort to save $20 per year, and they leave themselves
exposed to potentially having to borrow money if something else crops up
that, unlike the boiler, really needs to be done.

Some boilers are easily converted from oil to gas an vice versa.
Depends on the design.
And finding someone with the ability to do it.

But you are right about the economics.
In this case you only change the boiler when it leaks or when parts can't be
got.

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:39:14 +0200, nestork
wrote:


Ed Pawlowski;3126413 Wrote:

You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to
consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good
condition.

I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired
boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers
where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.

I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use
burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid
and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My
understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that
pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist
so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference
alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design
than one that burns gas.


What you think does not matter. What is possible and done frequently
does. I've seen many a boiler converted. When you get into
commercial units, dual fuel is common too. Oh, I've also seen coal
heaters converted to either gas or oil too. That was common back in
the 50's and 60's.




Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in
rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil
companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your
property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm.
So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's
no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some
form of gas storage facility on your property.

While that is true, I know of plenty of houses with gas service and
oil heat. My in-laws is one. They cook with gas, heat with oil.
About 30 houses on that street are/were like that. Your speculation
will be trumped by fact. The OP is asking about conversion so I'd
guess it is available, but only he knows for sure.






But, in any event, a 20 year old cast iron boiler can last another 80 to
100 years if properly maintained. Longer if it's a popular brand and
your local heating contractors stockpile parts for it.

Mine was a popular brand but needed replacing after 28 years, not 100.
If this boiler
were in Winnipeg, the economics of replacing it with a higher efficiency
model might start to make economic sense based on the fuel savings.

Yep, mine is paid for by fuel savings alone, plus enough left over to
go out for dinner.



If I were in the OP's boots, I'd keep the existing boiler in their
basement and keep the money that a new high efficiency boiler would cost
in the bank so that when something crops up that really needs to be
done, they have the money to do it. This way they're spending a pile of
money in an effort to save $20 per year, and they leave themselves
exposed to potentially having to borrow money if something else crops up
that, unlike the boiler, really needs to be done.


But since neither of us is in his boots, we don't know the situation
at all. Anything we suggest is based on speculation at this point.

Electric is a way to get energy from one place
to another. The real energy source is coal,
natural gas, water fall, nuclear, etc.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/25/2013 4:40 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:


I can't imagine any possible scenario when electric is more efficient
than *anything*.

nate

I've heard NG burns more clean, and so there is a
lot less maintenance, failure to light, etc.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/25/2013 8:06 PM, wrote:
I put in a new boiler a few years back. Based on degree days, I'm
saving 39% on my oil bill compared to the old setup This is what I have
http://www.energykinetics.com/
In my case, paying for itself just from oil savings.

I was never happier when I dumped oil for natural gas (conversion
burner), even though fuel wasn't any cheaper.

I would convert to forced air and add AC...... costly initially but in houston AC is essential......

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 6:03:42 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:39:14 +0200, nestork

wrote:





Ed Pawlowski;3126413 Wrote:



You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to

consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good

condition.



I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired

boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers

where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.



I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use

burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid

and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My

understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that

pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist

so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference

alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design

than one that burns gas.





What you think does not matter. What is possible and done frequently

does. I've seen many a boiler converted. When you get into

commercial units, dual fuel is common too. Oh, I've also seen coal

heaters converted to either gas or oil too. That was common back in

the 50's and 60's.



But what kind of EFFICIENCY do you get after you've converted
that 20 to 40 year old boiler to nat gas? I would bet it's
significantly less than a new high eff boiler would be
and what does it cost to convert, versus just buying a whole
new high eff 90%+ nat gas boiler? Isn't the cost of a
whole new boiler only like $2,000 for the eqpt?










Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in

rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil

companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your

property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm.

So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's

no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some

form of gas storage facility on your property.



While that is true, I know of plenty of houses with gas service and

oil heat. My in-laws is one. They cook with gas, heat with oil.

They must be nuts. It doesn't take long to recover the cost
of switching to gas. And with the $1500 fed tax credit that was
available just a few years ago, possible state rebates, utility
rebates, etc, lower maintenance costs, higher efficiency, I
can't imagine why they wouldn't have switched instead of using
$4 a gal oil.



About 30 houses on that street are/were like that. Your speculation

will be trumped by fact. The OP is asking about conversion so I'd

guess it is available, but only he knows for sure.



Were like that, as in 30 years ago, I can see, but I
can't say I've seen a single one here in NJ. But today?
I don't know of any houses here in NJ that have nat gas piped
in for cooking, but don't use it for heat. The only ones I know
of are those like Nestork says, where nat gas is not available.
There are cases where nat gas is available at the street,
down the street, etc, but it could cost a lot to get it into
the house.













But, in any event, a 20 year old cast iron boiler can last another 80 to

100 years if properly maintained. Longer if it's a popular brand and

your local heating contractors stockpile parts for it.



Mine was a popular brand but needed replacing after 28 years, not 100.

If this boiler

were in Winnipeg, the economics of replacing it with a higher efficiency

model might start to make economic sense based on the fuel savings.




Yep, mine is paid for by fuel savings alone, plus enough left over to

go out for dinner.







If I were in the OP's boots, I'd keep the existing boiler in their

basement and keep the money that a new high efficiency boiler would cost

in the bank so that when something crops up that really needs to be

done, they have the money to do it. This way they're spending a pile of

money in an effort to save $20 per year,

and they leave themselves

exposed to potentially having to borrow money if something else crops up

that, unlike the boiler, really needs to be done.





But since neither of us is in his boots, we don't know the situation

at all. Anything we suggest is based on speculation at this point.

Nestork has a good point there. I would not think the
heating bill would be that large in TX, so maybe it's not
worth changing anything at all. Might make better sense to
install more insulation, which would also help with cooling,
which might save even more money. As you say, only the OP knows
the numbers and they didn't provide them.

All of my experience with boilers is with gas fired commercial boilers. Here in Winnipeg, everyone uses gas fired heating equipment, whether it be boilers or furnaces. The odd place, usually commercial buildings like strip malls use electric heat.

I'm surprised to learn that oil fired boilers can be converted into gas fired units, and vice versa, but it's clear that the boiler would have to be designed for either fuel right from the start, and I've never seen that. Perhaps it's more common in more expensive boilers like Viesmann. But, if you go onto a more common boiler manufacturer's web site, like Weil McLain, they classify their boilers as gas burning and oil burning, and so far as I've seen, they don't have a catagory for either/or.

Anyhow, now the OP is aware of the possibility and can check to see if it's a feasible option in his/her case.

ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got
an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.
I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know
whether to go for gas or electric.
I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it
evens out in the end.
Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've
searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner
| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)
but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I
start ringing around.

I've read all the responses up to this date.
Another expense to consider is that when converting from oil to any
other fuel or electricity there is the expense of the removal of the oil
in the tank and either filling the now empty buried tank with an
appropriate filler (I would use concrete to prevent the tank caving in)
or the removal of the above ground tank.
http://inspectapedia.com/oiltanks/oiltend.htm

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:30:27 AM UTC-4, willshak wrote:
ChloeP wrote:

I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got

an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.

I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know

whether to go for gas or electric.

I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it

evens out in the end.

Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've

searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner

| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)

but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I

start ringing around.



I've read all the responses up to this date.

Another expense to consider is that when converting from oil to any

other fuel or electricity there is the expense of the removal of the oil

in the tank and either filling the now empty buried tank with an

appropriate filler (I would use concrete to prevent the tank caving in)

or the removal of the above ground tank.

http://inspectapedia.com/oiltanks/oiltend.htm


Good point, that is one other factor. And if it's an
old tank or likely old, then it's one more MAJOR factor
to consider in the decision to switch fuels. Meaning
that even aside from switching to gas to save energy
costs, an old oil tank is a problem even if you don't
convert and continue using the old system. If it's in
the basement and it starts to leak, I would think it
would usually happen with a small leak that you'd
probably smell, see, etc. before it gets really bad.
But maybe they can suddenly spring bigger leaks too?

If it's underground, it can be leaking and you'd never
know it until the ground is contaminated big time. And
then it becomes a very expensive problem. I don't know
what the best practice recommendations are, but if it
were me, I'd be concerned about any tank that is 20+ years
old for sure. And I'd be checking with neighbors on
any experiences they've had with similar tanks. The
age of the tank might be the thing that is the driving
issue that makes converting to gas the best course of action.

Filling the tank with concrete wouldn't be my first choice.
It creates another potential problem, ie that if you ever
need to excavate that area for something, eg running some
pipe, septic system, house addition, etc you now have a
huge concrete mass. Sand or gravel sounds like a much
better and cheaper alternative, which is what I've seen
used here in NJ.

On 9/26/2013 8:13 AM, nestork wrote:
Ed Pawlowski;3126518 Wrote:
What you think does not matter. What is possible and done frequently
does. I've seen many a boiler converted. When you get into commercial
units, dual fuel is common too. Oh, I've also seen coal heaters
converted to either gas or oil too. That was common back in
the 50's and 60's.


All of my experience with boilers is with gas fired commercial boilers.
Here in Winnipeg, everyone uses gas fired heating equipment, whether it
be boilers or furnaces. The odd place, usually commercial buildings
like strip malls use electric heat.

I'm surprised to learn that oil fired boilers can be converted into gas
fired units, and vice versa,

Never heard of a vice versa. Wouldn't think there would be a demand.

but it's clear that the boiler would have
to be designed for either fuel right from the start, and I've never seen
that. Perhaps it's more common in more expensive boilers like Viesmann.
But, if you go onto a more common boiler manufacturer's web site, like
Weil McLain, they classify their boilers as gas burning and oil burning,
and so far as I've seen, they don't have a catagory for either/or.

If I remember right there were gas conversions for coal furnaces. I know
there were gas conversions for oil furnaces. I would think there are
(were?) gas conversions for oil boilers. (Maybe not now with tighter
standards.)


Anyhow, now the OP is aware of the possibility and can check to see if
it's a feasible option in his/her case.

Weil McLain is the largest manufacturer of cast iron boilers in the USA, and I expect the largest manufacturer in all of North America.

Here is Weil McLain's "Products" web page that shows all of the different types of boilers currently available from Weil McLain.

Residential Boilers, Commercial Boilers | Weil-McLain

Note the "2" at the top of the product selection indicating that the first page only shows the first 12 different kinds of boilers. Weil McLain offers 9 different kinds of residential gas fired boilers, 4 different kinds of oil fired residential boilers and 7 different kinds of commercial boilers.

On the second page it calls three of their commercial boilers "gas oil" boilers, which to me means that they can be set up to fire on either kind of fuel; and could undoubtedly be switched from one to the other relatively quickly and easily. I could see a demand for that feature in places like Alaska where gas may be temporarily interrupted by an earthquake that severs the gas lines. Places like hospitals and government offices could have their own oil storage tanks and switch over to burning oil until the gas service is restored.

What I don't see, however, are residential boilers that can burn either kind of fuel or a conversion kit to allow a residential boiler firing one kind of fuel to burn another. What I do see, however, is that Weil McLain's GV90+ gas fired residential boiler can be easily converted to propane, which would be of similar advantage to houses in Alaska or California or British Columbia where earthquakes are more common; or in urban areas where the gas utility isn't reliable.

GV90+ Gas Boiler | Weil-McLain | Product Detail

Anyhow, it's possible that boilers made 20 years ago, and those that sold well in some parts of the continent were different than those available today. But, from what little snooping I've done on Weil McLain's web site I'm coming to the conclusion that being able to switch a boiler that's meant to fire gas to one that burns oil, or vice versa, isn't very common. If the boiler was designed to fire either fuel, you have that option, but if it wasn't designed for that, then I'm expecting that option isn't available to you.

But, I'm old enough to acknowledge that I don't know everything like I did when I was 15, so I might be dead wrong on this one too.

On 9/26/2013 10:41 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:30:27 AM UTC-4, willshak wrote:
ChloeP wrote:

I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got

an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.

I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know

whether to go for gas or electric.

I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it

evens out in the end.

Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've

searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner

| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)

but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I

start ringing around.



I've read all the responses up to this date.

Another expense to consider is that when converting from oil to any

other fuel or electricity there is the expense of the removal of the oil

in the tank and either filling the now empty buried tank with an

appropriate filler (I would use concrete to prevent the tank caving in)

or the removal of the above ground tank.

http://inspectapedia.com/oiltanks/oiltend.htm


Good point, that is one other factor. And if it's an
old tank or likely old, then it's one more MAJOR factor
to consider in the decision to switch fuels. Meaning
that even aside from switching to gas to save energy
costs, an old oil tank is a problem even if you don't
convert and continue using the old system. If it's in
the basement and it starts to leak, I would think it
would usually happen with a small leak that you'd
probably smell, see, etc. before it gets really bad.
But maybe they can suddenly spring bigger leaks too?

If it's underground, it can be leaking and you'd never
know it until the ground is contaminated big time. And
then it becomes a very expensive problem. I don't know
what the best practice recommendations are, but if it
were me, I'd be concerned about any tank that is 20+ years
old for sure. And I'd be checking with neighbors on
any experiences they've had with similar tanks. The
age of the tank might be the thing that is the driving
issue that makes converting to gas the best course of action.

Filling the tank with concrete wouldn't be my first choice.
It creates another potential problem, ie that if you ever
need to excavate that area for something, eg running some
pipe, septic system, house addition, etc you now have a
huge concrete mass. Sand or gravel sounds like a much
better and cheaper alternative, which is what I've seen
used here in NJ.


I recall a story about a homeowner who had the old oil tank removed from
their basement when switching to a natural gas boiler. The filler
for the old tank was still outside and you guessed it, an oil supply
truck driver hooked up to the tankless filler and quite a few gallons
were dumped into the home's basement. It would be common sense to block
or remove the filler to any old oil tank to keep such a mistake from
happening. ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:44:06 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I've heard NG burns more clean, and so there is a
lot less maintenance, failure to light, etc.

No maintenance. After doing the conversion I never had anyone look at
the system again.

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:42:45 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Electric is a way to get energy from one place
to another. The real energy source is coal,
natural gas, water fall, nuclear, etc.

Well, if you're going to be that way, the *real* source of the energy
is *solar*. ;-)

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 21:44:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/25/2013 4:52 PM, nestork wrote:

20 years old is an old gas fired furnace.
20 years old is a young cast iron boiler.

Where I live, it's common to see hot water heating boilers that are 100
years old and still going strong.

Those 100 year old boilers will probably outlast some of the 20 yo.
I've seen quite a few 25 - 30 yo being replaced for various failures.

Sure, but like a refrigerator, it was time to replace them long before
they failed.

But, a properly maintained cast iron boiler will last longer than
grandma, so 20 years is NOT an old boiler, and replacing it just to save
on fuel costs in a place like Houston is a money losing decision.



You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to
consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good condition.

Conversion is easy IFF there is natural gas readily available. Propane
may be a solution but its price varies widely so there it's not
necessarily worthwhile.

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:39:14 +0200, nestork
wrote:


Ed Pawlowski;3126413 Wrote:

You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to
consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good
condition.

I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired
boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers
where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.

You can. There are gas "conversion burners" made to replace oil
burners.

I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use
burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid
and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My
understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that
pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist
so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference
alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design
than one that burns gas.

The gas is "sprayed" into the combustion chamber with air, just like
the oil burner. Gas has the advantage that it's cleaner and is
already a gas so doesn't have to be atomized. It works really well.


So, I really don't think you can change an oil fired boiler into one
that would burn gas in an economical way. That is, I expect it would be
cheaper to buy a gas fired boiler than convert an oil fired boiler into
one that will burn gas.

You can. It's a simple swap of the burner. They aren't all that
cheap but it's a trivial job for anyone who has serviced oil burners.

Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in
rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil
companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your
property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm.
So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's
no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some
form of gas storage facility on your property.

Somewhat true. Many areas that didn't have gas service fifty years
ago, now do. It really is worthwhile to convert, given a chance.
Obviously, if there is no gas available (or propane is too expensive)
it can't be done (or isn't worthwhile).

But, in any event, a 20 year old cast iron boiler can last another 80 to
100 years if properly maintained.

Not so much. A 20Y0 firebox likely won't last that 80 years. If major
surgery like that is needed, scrap the whole thing and get an updated
unit.

Longer if it's a popular brand and
your local heating contractors stockpile parts for it. If this boiler
were in Winnipeg, the economics of replacing it with a higher efficiency
model might start to make economic sense based on the fuel savings.

That's a good point. Heating-degree-days make all the difference.

But, in Houston, where "winter" is the last two weeks of January when
you might put on a sweater before going outside, replacing a perfectly
good boiler with a high efficiency boiler to "save on fuel costs" is
crazy. You're going to spend far more money on the new boiler than
you're ever going to save in fuel costs.

If natural gas isn't available in Houston, I'd be looking at a
mini-split (heat pump).

And, on top of that, your average 20 year old boiler is pretty simple
and every heating contractor in town is going to know how to repair it.
A high efficiency boiler will have it's own computer to determine when
and how it comes on and how it operates. So, if it's not working
properly, only the heating companies in town that sell that make of
boiler are going to be able to diagnose what's wrong with it. They know
they know they have the customer over a barrel and charge accordingly
for their services to repair it.

Good grief. These things aren't rockets. If it doesn't work, swap
the part.

If I were in the OP's boots, I'd keep the existing boiler in their
basement and keep the money that a new high efficiency boiler would cost
in the bank so that when something crops up that really needs to be
done, they have the money to do it. This way they're spending a pile of
money in an effort to save $20 per year, and they leave themselves
exposed to potentially having to borrow money if something else crops up
that, unlike the boiler, really needs to be done.

There's no way to know without running the numbers. I'd certainly do
everything possible to get rid of an oil burner!

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 06:58:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 6:03:42 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:39:14 +0200, nestork

wrote:





Ed Pawlowski;3126413 Wrote:



You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to

consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good

condition.



I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired

boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers

where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.



I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use

burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid

and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My

understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that

pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist

so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference

alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design

than one that burns gas.





What you think does not matter. What is possible and done frequently

does. I've seen many a boiler converted. When you get into

commercial units, dual fuel is common too. Oh, I've also seen coal

heaters converted to either gas or oil too. That was common back in

the 50's and 60's.



But what kind of EFFICIENCY do you get after you've converted
that 20 to 40 year old boiler to nat gas? I would bet it's
significantly less than a new high eff boiler would be
and what does it cost to convert, versus just buying a whole
new high eff 90%+ nat gas boiler? Isn't the cost of a
whole new boiler only like $2,000 for the eqpt?

Roughly the same as you had with the old oil burner. The lost heat
goes up the chimney. With the same boiler design and the same output
heat, the same heat goes up the chimney. TANSTAAFL.

The conversion burner is a cheap way to do exactly that; convert
between fuels. Of course, if money is no object or the old boiler
needs more than just a burner, a complete replacement is in order.


Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in

rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil

companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your

property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm.

So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's

no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some

form of gas storage facility on your property.



While that is true, I know of plenty of houses with gas service and

oil heat. My in-laws is one. They cook with gas, heat with oil.

They must be nuts. It doesn't take long to recover the cost
of switching to gas. And with the $1500 fed tax credit that was
available just a few years ago, possible state rebates, utility
rebates, etc, lower maintenance costs, higher efficiency, I
can't imagine why they wouldn't have switched instead of using
$4 a gal oil.

When I did it, the gas company paid for all of the work (inside and
out) except the burner (which I rented) and a cleanout cut in the
chimney $50 (which should have been there, by code).

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:29:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I recall a story about a homeowner who had the old oil tank removed from
their basement when switching to a natural gas boiler. The filler
for the old tank was still outside and you guessed it, an oil supply
truck driver hooked up to the tankless filler and quite a few gallons
were dumped into the home's basement. It would be common sense to block
or remove the filler to any old oil tank to keep such a mistake from
happening. ^_^

We had a thread about that here that I posted one time. The delivery
truck had the wrong address, a house under renovation, and dumped the
oil in the basement before the filler pipe was closed off. In that
case, the delivery company made good on the damage.

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 1:33:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 06:58:33 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



On Thursday, September 26, 2013 6:03:42 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:39:14 +0200, nestork



wrote:











Ed Pawlowski;3126413 Wrote:







You make a good point, but run the numbers. It may be a good idea to



consider just converting the burner to gas if the rest is in good



condition.







I don't believe you can turn a chicken into a duck that way. Gas fired



boilers will have burner trays running under the sections of the boilers



where the gas burns as it comes out of the burner trays.







I have no experience with oil fired boilers, but they couldn't use



burner trays like a gas fired boiler would because the oil is a liquid



and would simply spill out of those burner trays onto the floor. My



understanding is that oil fired boilers have a "pump" of sorts that



pressurizes the oil so that it's injected into the boiler as a fine mist



so that it burns both cleanly and completely. And, that difference



alone is going to require a boiler of fundamentally different design



than one that burns gas.











What you think does not matter. What is possible and done frequently



does. I've seen many a boiler converted. When you get into



commercial units, dual fuel is common too. Oh, I've also seen coal



heaters converted to either gas or oil too. That was common back in



the 50's and 60's.







But what kind of EFFICIENCY do you get after you've converted

that 20 to 40 year old boiler to nat gas? I would bet it's

significantly less than a new high eff boiler would be

and what does it cost to convert, versus just buying a whole

new high eff 90%+ nat gas boiler? Isn't the cost of a

whole new boiler only like $2,000 for the eqpt?



Roughly the same as you had with the old oil burner. The lost heat

goes up the chimney. With the same boiler design and the same output

heat, the same heat goes up the chimney. TANSTAAFL.



The conversion burner is a cheap way to do exactly that; convert

between fuels. Of course, if money is no object or the old boiler

needs more than just a burner, a complete replacement is in order.



I think a complete new boiler could be in order even if money is
taken into consideration. You have to look at what it costs to
convert the old inefficient boiler to gas, versus what it costs
for a whole new efficient boiler, the annual energy cost differences,
rebates, etc. Just a few years ago you could get $1500 in a
federal tax credit, plus state incentives, utility rebates, etc
but only on new systems that met energy star efficiency standards.
You wouldn't have gotten any of that here in NJ on a conversion.
That brings the cost of a new boiler way down.
With the cost of new boiler at $2000, I would think today even
without the federal credit, it could make economic sense to get
a high eff new boiler. You have to look at the actual numbers,
rebates, etc.







Also, my understanding is that oil fired boilers are commonly used in



rural areas that aren't serviced by gas utilities. Instead, heating oil



companies deliver heating oil by truck to a storage tank on your



property, and it's that heating oil you burn to keep your house warm.



So, even if you could change the burner section to burn gas, if there's



no gas service to your area, you'd have further expenses setting up some



form of gas storage facility on your property.







While that is true, I know of plenty of houses with gas service and



oil heat. My in-laws is one. They cook with gas, heat with oil.



They must be nuts. It doesn't take long to recover the cost

of switching to gas. And with the $1500 fed tax credit that was

available just a few years ago, possible state rebates, utility

rebates, etc, lower maintenance costs, higher efficiency, I

can't imagine why they wouldn't have switched instead of using

$4 a gal oil.



When I did it, the gas company paid for all of the work (inside and

out) except the burner (which I rented) and a cleanout cut in the

chimney $50 (which should have been there, by code).

That's nice, if such a deal happens to be available. What would the
cost have been if you had opted for a new high eff boiler?

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 1:51:22 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:29:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas

wrote:



I recall a story about a homeowner who had the old oil tank removed from

their basement when switching to a natural gas boiler. The filler

for the old tank was still outside and you guessed it, an oil supply

truck driver hooked up to the tankless filler and quite a few gallons

were dumped into the home's basement. It would be common sense to block

or remove the filler to any old oil tank to keep such a mistake from

happening. ^_^



We had a thread about that here that I posted one time. The delivery

truck had the wrong address, a house under renovation, and dumped the

oil in the basement before the filler pipe was closed off. In that

case, the delivery company made good on the damage.


I've heard of this happening on the news several times over
the years. I think standard practice now is for the removal
process to include permanently disabling or removing the fill
pipe. Seems pretty obvious to me, but then there are folks
who manage to screw anything up.

On 9/26/2013 10:13 AM, nestork wrote:

All of my experience with boilers is with gas fired commercial boilers.
Here in Winnipeg, everyone uses gas fired heating equipment, whether it
be boilers or furnaces. The odd place, usually commercial buildings
like strip malls use electric heat.

I'm surprised to learn that oil fired boilers can be converted into gas
fired units, and vice versa, but it's clear that the boiler would have
to be designed for either fuel right from the start, and I've never seen
that. Perhaps it's more common in more expensive boilers like Viesmann.
But, if you go onto a more common boiler manufacturer's web site, like
Weil McLain, they classify their boilers as gas burning and oil burning,
and so far as I've seen, they don't have a catagory for either/or.

Anyhow, now the OP is aware of the possibility and can check to see if
it's a feasible option in his/her case.

All sorts of combinations exist.

I've been associated with boilers in one way or another since my first
job in 1963 where we build heating and AC products. Last place I worked
we had dual fired units. We'd run gas most of the time, but when it got
really cold, the gas company would call and give us two hours to switch
over to oil. We got a special low rate for that and we'd only have to
go to oil a few days a year. We burned about 250 gallons of oil a day
so the price differential was considerable.

At another place, we burned #6 oil. On a Monday, you's start up with #2
until the pre-heater with steam probe warmed the #6 to flow.

The building we have where I work now has just about anything you can
imagine. Two fire tube gas high pressure steam boilers for process, a
gas cast iron low pressure steam for heating, 5 gas unit heaters, 2
steam unit heaters, 2 oil furnaces. 2 gas high efficiency water boilers,
3 gas fired rooftop heating units, fin and tube cooling tower, water
cooling tower, water recirculating system (tank, sump, 5 pumps) for
process cooling and even some electric baseboard. Getting ready for
winter keeps my maintenance guy busy for a couple of hours.

On 9/26/2013 12:51 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:29:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I recall a story about a homeowner who had the old oil tank removed from
their basement when switching to a natural gas boiler. The filler
for the old tank was still outside and you guessed it, an oil supply
truck driver hooked up to the tankless filler and quite a few gallons
were dumped into the home's basement. It would be common sense to block
or remove the filler to any old oil tank to keep such a mistake from
happening. ^_^

We had a thread about that here that I posted one time. The delivery
truck had the wrong address, a house under renovation, and dumped the
oil in the basement before the filler pipe was closed off. In that
case, the delivery company made good on the damage.


That's probably it, my organic computer's filing system is notorious for
its vagueness but it's often easy to rebuild the lost information
by re-inputting the data. ^_^

TDD

On 9/26/2013 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 26, 2013 1:51:22 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:29:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas

wrote:



I recall a story about a homeowner who had the old oil tank removed from

their basement when switching to a natural gas boiler. The filler

for the old tank was still outside and you guessed it, an oil supply

truck driver hooked up to the tankless filler and quite a few gallons

were dumped into the home's basement. It would be common sense to block

or remove the filler to any old oil tank to keep such a mistake from

happening. ^_^



We had a thread about that here that I posted one time. The delivery

truck had the wrong address, a house under renovation, and dumped the

oil in the basement before the filler pipe was closed off. In that

case, the delivery company made good on the damage.


I've heard of this happening on the news several times over
the years. I think standard practice now is for the removal
process to include permanently disabling or removing the fill
pipe. Seems pretty obvious to me, but then there are folks
who manage to screw anything up.


A ****-up is a mistake that can't be easily fixed. ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 06:04:02 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

I would convert to forced air and add AC...... costly initially but in houston AC is essential......

You bring up a good point. It's quite likely that he already has AC,
so switching that to a heat pump shouldn't be a big deal. Gas is
almost certainly a better choice but a heat pump shouldn't be a
terrible choice for Houston.

I don't remember the source, and likely it's not
on the web. I did hear of the tankless fills. One
HO poured cement into his fill pipe. The driver
wasn't one to be thwarted, chipped out the cement
and made his delivery as assigned (sort of).

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/26/2013 12:29 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:


Here's something funny. I will warn
you up front, there are a few swear
words, so anyone that would find that
offensive please DELETE now. )


For those of us who have "endured"
Meals-Ready To Eat (MRE's) and for
anyone who has ever heard of them and
wondered what they were like, this is
a classic:


ARMY RANGER DATE


I had a date the other night at my place.
On the phone the day before, the girl
asked me to "Cook her something she's
never had before" for dinner.


After many minutes of scratching my head
over what to make, I finally settled on
something she has DEFINITELY never eaten.


I got out my trusty case of MRE's. Meal,
Ready-to-Eat. Field rations that when eaten
in their entirety contain 3000+ calories.
Here's what I made:


I took three of the Ham Slices out of their
plastic packets, took out three of the Pork
Chops, three packets of Chicken-a-la-King,
and eight packets of dehydrated butter
noodles and some dehydrated/re hydrated
rice. I cooked the Ham Slices and Pork
Chops in one pan, sautéed in shaved garlic
and olive oil.


In another pot, I blended the Chicken
a-la-king, noodles, and rice together
to make a sort of mush that looked
suspiciously like succotash. I added some
spices, and blended everything together
in a glass pan that I then cooked in the
oven for about 35 minutes at 450 degrees.


When I took it out, it looked like, well,
ham slices, pork chops, and a bed of yellow
poop. I covered the tops of the meat in
the MRE cheese (kinda like Velveeta) and
added some green sprinkly thingys from one
of my spice cans (hey, if it's got green
sprinkly thingys on it, it looks fancy right?)


For dessert, I took four MRE Pound Cakes,
mashed 'em up, added five packets of cocoa
powder, powdered coffee cream, and some
water. I heated it up and stirred it until
it looked like a sort of chunky gelatinous
organism, and I sprinkled powdered sugar
on top of it. Voila--Ranger Pudding.


For alcoholic drinks, I took the rest
of my bottle of Military Special Vodka
(yes, they DO make a type of liquor named
"Military Special"--it sells for $4.35 per
fifth) and mixed in four packets of
"Electrolytes - 1 each - Cherry flavored"
(I swear, the packet says that). It looked
like an eerie kool-aid with sparkles in it
(that was the electrolytes I guess...
could've been leftover sand from Egypt).


I lit two candles, put a vase of wildflowers
in the middle, and set the table with my
best set of Ralph Lauren Academy-series
China (that **** is ****ing EXPENSIVE...
my set of 8 place settings cost me over
$600), and put the alcoholic drink in a
crystal wine decanter.


She came over, and I had some appetizers
already made, of MRE spaghetti-with-
meatballs, set in small cups. She saw the
dinner, saw the food, and said "This looks
INCREDIBLE!!!"


We dug in, and she was loving the food.
Throughout the meal, she kept asking me
how long it took me to make it, and kept
remarking that I obviously knew a thing
or two about cooking fine meals. She
kind of balked at the makeshift "wine"
I had set out, but after she tried it I
guess she liked it because she drank four
glasses during dinner.


At the end of the main course, when I
served the dessert, she squealed with delight
at the "Chocolate mousse" I had made. Huh?
Chocolate what? Okay... yeah... it's
Chocolate Moose. Took me HOURS to make...
yup.


Later on, as we were watching a movie, she
excused herself to use my restroom. While she
was in there, I heard her say softly to
herself "uh oh" and a resounding but petite
fart punctuated her utterance of dismay.


Let the games begin.


She sprayed about half a can of air freshener
(Air Freshener, 1 each, Orange scent. Yup.
The Army even makes smell good) and returned
to the couch, this time with an obvious
pained look.


After 10 more minutes she excused herself
again, and retreated to the bathroom for
the second time. I could hear her say "What
the hell is WRONG with me???," as she again
send flatulent shock waves into the porcelain
bowl.


This time, they sounded kinda wet, and I
heard the toilet paper roll being employed,
and again, LOTS more air freshener.


Back to the couch. She smiles meekly as
she decides to sit on the chair instead
of next to me. She sits on my chair, knees
pulled up to her chest, kind of rocking
back and forth slightly. Suddenly, without
a word, she ROCKETED up and FLEW to the
bathroom, slammed the door, and didn't
come out for 30 minutes.


I turned the movie up because I didn't want
her to hear me laughing so hard that tears
were streaming down my cheeks.


She came out with a slightly gray pallor
to her face, and said "I am SOOOOOO sorry.
I have NO idea what is wrong with me. I am
so embarrassed, I can't believe I keep
running to your bathroom!!" I gave her an
Imodium AD, and she finally settled down
and relaxed.


Later on, she asked me again what I had made
for dinner, because she had enjoyed it so
much. I calmly took her into the kitchen and
showed her all the used MRE bags and packets
in the trash can.


After explaining to her that she had eaten
roughly 9,000 calories of "Army food" she
turned stark white, looked at me incredulously,
and said "I ate 9,000 calories or dehydrated
food that was made 3 years ago?" After I
concurred, she grabbed her coat and keys,
and took off without a word.


She called me yesterday. Seems she couldn't
**** for 3 days, and when she finally did,
the smell was so bad, her roommate could
smell it from down the hall. She also told
me she had been working out nonstop to combat
the high caloric intake, and that she never
wanted me to cook dinner for her again,
unless she was PERSONALLY there to inspect
the food beforehand.


It was a fun date. She laughed about it
eventually, and said that that was the first
time she'd ever crapped in a guy's house on
a date. She'd been so upset by it she was
in tears in the bathroom while I had been
in tears on the couch.


I know, I'm an asshole, but it was still a
funny night.





I recall a story about a homeowner who had the old oil tank removed from
their basement when switching to a natural gas boiler. The filler
for the old tank was still outside and you guessed it, an oil supply
truck driver hooked up to the tankless filler and quite a few gallons
were dumped into the home's basement. It would be common sense to block
or remove the filler to any old oil tank to keep such a mistake from
happening. ^_^

TDD

I hope you send copy of that information to EPA
and Wash DC and so on. They will be thrilled.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/26/2013 1:07 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 08:42:45 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Electric is a way to get energy from one place
to another. The real energy source is coal,
natural gas, water fall, nuclear, etc.

Well, if you're going to be that way, the *real* source of the energy
is *solar*. ;-)

How does one "rent" a burner?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/26/2013 1:33 PM, wrote:
Subject: Battery booster pack
Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:17 AM

A useful device, is a battery booster pack. You can find them at Walmart,
or any auto parts store. Just a 12 volt gel cell battery and a couple
cables
and clamps. The one I have, I paid about eight bucks at BJ's Wholesale
Club.
I got one about five years ago, and it was totally useful. The battery is
strong enough to jump start a vehicle, when the auto battery is dead. The
inverter on the back provides up to 300 watts of AC 110 volt power for
up to
45 minutes, if the internal battery is fully charged. The booster pack has
an internal charger, just flip open the little door, and stick on the
end of
an extension cord. The booster pack will run a floor or table lamp for
several hours of light. More hours, if you use a power saver compact
fluorescent bulb or fluorescent desk lamp. Much brighter than candles or
camping lantern. And far, far safer.

Has a light on the front. On mine, I pulled the lens off, and pull the bulb
out. It's too easy to bump the light switch and the battery goes dead. At
least, that's what I thought was the problem. Turns out the battery wasn't
holding a charge. This was winter time, so I figured I'd killed the battery
by letting it freeze. Here is an identical unit, with a different brand
name.

http://store.chromeauto.com/keas104.html

Now, the price has gone up a bit. I paid eighty bucks for mine, and now
they are getting one
seventy five. Ouch!

http://www.aumauto.com/albowiin.html

Says retail $250 but they only get $150. Things going up in price, I see.

When mine went dead, I took the cables, clamps, and so on. And the
inverter.
Wired it all to a garden tractor battery from Walmart. Found out later
on my
own van, that the garden tractor battery isn't strong enough to boost a
vehicle engine. However, it does provide some 12 volt power, and also the
300 watts of AC for a few minutes is useful.

About the time I bought a second one of these. Another eighty bucks. And
the battery went dead. I called the factory and found out they had bought a
load of old batteries. The rep there offered me a replacement battery,
which
was much cheaper than replacing the unit. Being a repair man, it wasn't all
that hard to pull the box apart, and swap out another battery.

Harbor Freight has booster packs aroud fifty bucks, with a battery and
lighter socket and some cables and clamps. The inverter is only about
thirty
bucks at Walmart, so you can get the jump pack and a separte inverter. For
about the same money I paid five years ago. The Walmart $30 inverter plugs
into a lighter socket, so you can move it from car to car, or run it off
the
battery booster pack.

Of course, you have to charge the unit after each use. Most of these come
with their own wall charger. Take it home and plug it into the 110 volt
power. I rigged a cord with a 12 volt lighter plug on each end. So I can
plug the cord into the vehicle and into the jump pack. Charge while I'm
driving.
They must be nuts. It doesn't take long to recover the cost
of switching to gas. And with the $1500 fed tax credit that was
available just a few years ago, possible state rebates, utility
rebates, etc, lower maintenance costs, higher efficiency, I
can't imagine why they wouldn't have switched instead of using
$4 a gal oil.

When I did it, the gas company paid for all of the work (inside and
out) except the burner (which I rented) and a cleanout cut in the
chimney $50 (which should have been there, by code).

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:43:17 AM UTC-4, ChloeP wrote:
I recently moved into an older property, from early 1950s, and we've got

an oil burning boiler that's at least 20 years old if not older.

I want to replace it with something more efficient but don't know

whether to go for gas or electric.

I presume electric is more efficient but more expensive, I'm not sure it

evens out in the end.

Also I need recommendations for contractors in the Houston area. I've

searched online and found these guys 'Houston Plumber | Air Conditioner

| Heating Services | Aramendia' (http://www.aramendiahouston.com)

but being new to the area I'd like some actual recommendations before I

start ringing around.


In houston I'd keep using it until it really needed replacing. You just don't have all that much of a heating season. At that point I'd go with a heat pump.