We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?
Hondo

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"Julio Rey" wrote in
message roups.com...
We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?
Hondo


I don't know about the problem, but if I was told 'vapor lock' I would have
ran the technnician off right then. If the generator had vapor lock , it
would not start. Vapor lock involves the fuel system and has nothing to do
with the alternator.

On 09/17/2013 05:18 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Julio Rey" wrote in
message roups.com...
We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?
Hondo


I don't know about the problem, but if I was told 'vapor lock' I would have
ran the technnician off right then. If the generator had vapor lock , it
would not start. Vapor lock involves the fuel system and has nothing to do
with the alternator.

I am thinking the same thing, that just makes no sense, unless I am
seriously missing something the tech had no clue and was throwing random
words at you.

Can you test the standby draw off the battery?

nate

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Julio Rey wrote:
We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?
Hondo

Hmmm,
Was he real service tech? Why vapor lock has anything to do with
discharged battery. Check charging circuit and when on stand-by
make sure battery is losing juice by some thing. Handy with multi meter?

We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?


* I would contact the factory. Someone I know had a Generac that did the
weekly test just fine. During the first power outage it died. The
authorized installer checked it out and contacted the factory. Several
weeks later a new generator was installed for FREE including the labor. The
guy has since sold that house so I don't know the long term outcome.

On 09/17/13 05:18 pm, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Julio Rey"caedfaa9ed1216d60ef78a6f660f5f85_8021@example .com wrote in
message roups.com...
We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?


I don't know about the problem, but if I was told 'vapor lock' I would have
ran the technnician off right then. If the generator had vapor lock , it
would not start. Vapor lock involves the fuel system and has nothing to do
with the alternator.

A new battery should not have needed to be charged within a few days.
ISTM that there are two problems rather than one: (a) the battery is
running down very quickly -- more quickly than normal; AND (b) the
battery-monitoring and charging circuitry is faulty.

Perce

replying to Tony Hwang , Julio Rey wrote:
dragon40 wrote:

Hmmm,
Was he real service tech? Why vapor lock has anything to do with
discharged battery. Check charging circuit and when on stand-by
make sure battery is losing juice by some thing. Handy with multi meter?



Just basic stuff, but I will study the schematics that I got from Generac
and see if I can find the charging circuits. Thanks for your help.

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replying to Percival P. Cassidy , Julio Rey wrote:
Nobody wrote:

A new battery should not have needed to be charged within a few days.
ISTM that there are two problems rather than one: (a) the battery is
running down very quickly -- more quickly than normal; AND (b) the
battery-monitoring and charging circuitry is faulty.
Perce




I agree, I'm looking into other sites to see if there are other Generac
users with similar problems.
Hondo

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On 09/17/2013 06:44 PM, Julio Rey wrote:
replying to Percival P. Cassidy , Julio Rey wrote:
Nobody wrote:

A new battery should not have needed to be charged within a few days.
ISTM that there are two problems rather than one: (a) the battery is
running down very quickly -- more quickly than normal; AND (b) the
battery-monitoring and charging circuitry is faulty. Perce




I agree, I'm looking into other sites to see if there are other Generac
users with similar problems.
Hondo


One question - is the battery charged off of the house's electricity, or
only when the generator is running?

If the manual for your particular generator is posted online anywhere, a
link to it might help us give you more specific areas to check.
Although you really shouldn't have to be troubleshooting it yourself if
it's brand new...

nate

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Another moaner invades.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Julio Rey" wrote in
message roups.com...

replying to Nate Nagel , Julio Rey wrote:
njnagel wrote:

One question - is the battery charged off of the house's electricity, or
only when the generator is running?
If the manual for your particular generator is posted online anywhere, a
link to it might help us give you more specific areas to check.
Although you really shouldn't have to be troubleshooting it yourself if
it's brand new...
nate


This is the "new" generation of stand-by units, and the unit uses the
house's electricity to keep the battery charged. I agree, thinking ahead
now, I'm not about to touch the unit and take the chance that the
manufacturer could use this as an excuse to void their warranty.
Thanks for your answer.

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replying to John Grabowski , Julio Rey wrote:
jgrabows1 wrote:

* I would contact the factory. Someone I know had a Generac that did the
weekly test just fine. During the first power outage it died. The
authorized installer checked it out and contacted the factory. Several
weeks later a new generator was installed for FREE including the labor.
The

guy has since sold that house so I don't know the long term outcome.



I like this answer; I wonder if Generac was just responsive, or if your
friend is a lawyer; if not, he probably has a good one!
I did contacted Generac, and I was instructed to call one of the
authorized representatives; not what I was hoping for; will see.

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* I would contact the factory. Someone I know had a Generac that did the
weekly test just fine. During the first power outage it died. The
authorized installer checked it out and contacted the factory. Several
weeks later a new generator was installed for FREE including the labor.
The

guy has since sold that house so I don't know the long term outcome.



I like this answer; I wonder if Generac was just responsive, or if your
friend is a lawyer; if not, he probably has a good one!
I did contacted Generac, and I was instructed to call one of the
authorized representatives; not what I was hoping for; will see.


*No Lawyer, but a banker. In his case it was the authorized service guy who
made the arrangements. It did take a long time though (2+ months). Be
persistent. Check to see if Generac has a Facebook page. If so, post the
facts there.

On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:44:02 PM UTC-4, Julio Rey wrote:
replying to Nate Nagel , Julio Rey wrote:

njnagel wrote:



One question - is the battery charged off of the house's electricity, or

only when the generator is running?

If the manual for your particular generator is posted online anywhere, a

link to it might help us give you more specific areas to check.

Although you really shouldn't have to be troubleshooting it yourself if

it's brand new...

nate





This is the "new" generation of stand-by units, and the unit uses the

house's electricity to keep the battery charged. I agree, thinking ahead

now, I'm not about to touch the unit and take the chance that the

manufacturer could use this as an excuse to void their warranty.

Thanks for your answer.



Not only doesn't vapor lock make any sense for the reasons
already discussed, but these units typically use natural gas for
fuel. What does yours use? Nat gas is already a vapor,
so how do you get vapor lock with that? It's only a potential problem with gasoline engines and then only if the system isn't designed right.
Even if you have diesel, AFAIK, that can't vapor lock either.

A new battery shouldn't drain down in a few days in a
generator even if it's not being charged. It's kind of
like a lawn mower tractor battery or motorcycle battery.
They sit around for a couple of months without being
charged and still start.

My condolences on buying that Generac. Go over to Amazon
and read the reviews there for the whole house standby ones.
One bad experience after another and people really ****ed off
at the treatment they've received. The reviews I saw were
for their air cooled units, maybe the water cooled ones are
better. But then given your experience so far, maybe not....

"Julio Rey" wrote in
message roups.com...
We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?
Hondo


The ONLY 'vapor lock' in this story is the one between the 'tech' ears.

That said. Run a parasitic current leak check on the battery. Second
question is there a standby charger powered by the house mains?

An aside I'm not at all impressed with Generac equipment.

On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:44:01 PM UTC-4, Julio Rey wrote:
We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed
by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit
worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.
Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.
We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started
right away.
I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check
Battery" message.
Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician
came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a
"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.
Does anyone else is experience this problem?

Yes. My experience is, it's new, it's under warranty, fixing it is not my problem regardless of how incompetent the tech is that comes to service it. I will keep calling and escalating until they send someone competent to diagnose and fix the problem.

The battery should have a maintenance charger that runs off street power and keeps the battery charged between test runs. Either that's not connected, or it's not working.

On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:43:43 AM UTC-4, wrote:
A new battery shouldn't drain down in a few days in a
generator even if it's not being charged. It's kind of
like a lawn mower tractor battery or motorcycle battery.
They sit around for a couple of months without being
charged and still start.

Not quite the same.

On a lawn mower tractor, the battery only powers the starter motor to make the engine run.

On a generator, the battery is powering the monitoring equipment that senses when street power goes out.

On Friday, September 20, 2013 11:23:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:43:43 AM UTC-4, wrote:

A new battery shouldn't drain down in a few days in a

generator even if it's not being charged. It's kind of

like a lawn mower tractor battery or motorcycle battery.

They sit around for a couple of months without being

charged and still start.



Not quite the same.



On a lawn mower tractor, the battery only powers the starter motor to make the engine run.



On a generator, the battery is powering the monitoring equipment that senses when street power goes out.

That sensing and control circuitry on the generator is powered
by the normal house AC line 24/7.
So is a battery charge circuit that keeps the battery fully
charged. If the house AC goes off, only then does the battery
supply power, long enough to start the generator up. Once
running, the generator charges the battery.

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 08:23:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:43:43 AM UTC-4, wrote:
A new battery shouldn't drain down in a few days in a
generator even if it's not being charged. It's kind of
like a lawn mower tractor battery or motorcycle battery.
They sit around for a couple of months without being
charged and still start.

Not quite the same.

On a lawn mower tractor, the battery only powers the starter motor to make the engine run.

On a generator, the battery is powering the monitoring equipment that senses when street power goes out.
No, not necessarily. Street power powers the monitor circuit, and
when power drops the normally closed relay initiates the start
sequence, The generator battery in MOST cases does NOTHING until the
power fails.

If it is set up as you indicate it MUST have a line powered charging
system to maintain the battery. Just stop to think about it - a "fail
safe" system without a built in "fail safe" is a guaranteen failure.

On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:44:01 PM UTC-4, Julio Rey wrote:
We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed

by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit

worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.

Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.

We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started

right away.

I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check

Battery" message.

Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician

came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a

"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.

Does anyone else is experience this problem?

Hondo



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I would think that the house power is charging the battery while the unit is not in use. There may be electronics that is being powered by the battery as well and the charger is not recognizing when the battery gets low and needs charging. The tech should be able to fix it, you paid a lot for that setup.

Or if you've given up on the tech go to lowes and get a small battery charge maintainer. I keep one on my boat and they do work well.

On Monday, September 23, 2013 5:21:53 PM UTC-4, jamesgang wrote:
On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:44:01 PM UTC-4, Julio Rey wrote:

We purchased a new Generac Stand-by liquid cooled generator, got installed



by same certified electrician that did my neighbor's generator. The unit



worked fine during testing, but failed to perform the weekly self-start.



Upon inspection the panel, it was also blank - no power.



We returned the NEW battery, got a NEW replacement, and the unit started



right away.



I inspected the panel a few days later, and it was emitting a "Check



Battery" message.



Called Generac South (a servicing dealer for our area), the technician



came, but could not find the problem - claimed that it probably was a



"vapor lock" that stopped the alternator from charging the battery.



Does anyone else is experience this problem?



Hondo







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I would think that the house power is charging the battery while the unit is not in use.

There is. Which is why the statement from the tech that "vapor lock
prevented the generator from charging the battery is really dumb.


There may be electronics that is being powered by the battery as well and the charger is not recognizing when the battery gets low and needs charging.

The battery should never really get low, because the charging circuit
provides DC power to the generator electronics when house AC is up.
The battery only supplies power when the AC voltages goes away.

The tech should be able to fix it, you paid a lot for that setup.


And if that tech/company can't give satisfaction, then I'd be
all over Generac to get me to another dealer for the warranty work.
But given what I've seem from most of the reviews of Generac
whole house generators, there are a lot of very unhappy customers
out there with systems that are ****ed off at Generac.

Even for this guy here, what an experience. You pay $$$$ for a
system that is supposed to be there in emergencies. Yet, it's
dead on it's own in a week. Even if they fix it, doesn't leave
you with a lot of faith in how reliable it will be when you need it.





Or if you've given up on the tech go to lowes and get a small battery charge maintainer. I keep one on my boat and they do work well.


I would not put a bandaid on a brand new standby generator that
cost him thousands of dollars. Once you start bandaiding it, what do
you think the company involved is going to say when there is a further
problem, like maybe the main control board blows up?
Very easy to then try to blame it on the customer modification
and deny the warranty claim. Plus, a battery tender raises it's
own problems, like extension cord to somewhere to plug it in, etc.
This most likely is just a bad module that needs to be replaced.

You would think just hooking up an ammeter in series with the
battery would be a quick test to see what's happening. If it's
working properly, you should see no current flow out of the
battery, maybe a small current flowing in. If it's broken like
we all seem to agree it is, then you'd see a small current flowing out
which is powering the generator electronics and draining the battery
over time. Also if there is no charge ever going into the battery,
each time it starts, which is typically weekly to do a short test
run, it's also draining the battery.