On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 08:33:00 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Farther north of you, the DOT salts the roads a
bit much in the winter. We still have drivers
who don't know how to handle road conditions.
Even with all the salt and sand, people still
go off the road, wreck up, and so on. So, the
vehicles from the earlier years all disappear in
a pile of rust and decay. A lot of folks have
historic cars, but only drive them in good
weather with no road salt.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On 8/30/2013 8:14 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I wish I had my 64 Valiant and 65 Dart with the Slant Six and automatic
transmission. I even had a full sized 63 Dodge with a 225 Slant Six and
the darn big old hunk of steel would get up and go. I also had a 64
Dodge cab over engine pickup, the pickup made on the van chassis with
the cab forward and engine between the front seats like the van. It had
a Slant Six and was a neat little truck. The vehicles were simple and
easy to work on plus they rarely quit on you leaving you stranded. All
you had to do was keep them serviced and the critters would run forever.
I miss those old crates. ^_^

TDD

And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted 100,000
miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old Mopars in my day -
'53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261? flathead, '63 Valiant 170
slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six, 1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976
Ramcharger 318, and numerous later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl
vehicles. The red ram was purchased with a blown motor at 100,000
miles and it had been apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles
on the clock when I sold it - head and valves had been done at least
once while I had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's
life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use

whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather than

breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.

Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.

Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right? ;-)

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 08:33:00 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Farther north of you, the DOT salts the roads a
bit much in the winter. We still have drivers
who don't know how to handle road conditions.
Even with all the salt and sand, people still
go off the road, wreck up, and so on. So, the
vehicles from the earlier years all disappear in
a pile of rust and decay. A lot of folks have
historic cars, but only drive them in good
weather with no road salt.

My pickup's back end completely rotted (leaf springs were resting on
the frame) because of the 6-7 years in the VT (and a year of NE OH)
salt. I just replaced it with a '13. No salt down here[*], so I
should be good for a good long while. ;-)
[*] The drivers are worse, though.

On 8/30/2013 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use

whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather
than

breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.

Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on
too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical
connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.

Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right?
;-)

I'm trying to think of where they're common in electrical work and I'm
not thinking of many uses. Typically the box screws and the screws on
the side of devices are either slotted (old) or combo head (modern), and
those are the only places you could even use a Phillips driver. Cover
plate screws are traditionally all slotted, and most of the circuit
breaker screws that I've seen are Robertson.

nate

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:19:59 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use

whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather
than

breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.

Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on
too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical
connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.

Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right?
;-)

I'm trying to think of where they're common in electrical work and I'm
not thinking of many uses.

Every outlet in my house has a Phillips head on the terminals. Well,
it's a combination Phillips/straight, I suppose. IIRC, the breakers,
are, too.

Typically the box screws and the screws on
the side of devices are either slotted (old) or combo head (modern), and
those are the only places you could even use a Phillips driver. Cover
plate screws are traditionally all slotted, and most of the circuit
breaker screws that I've seen are Robertson.

Robertson breaker screws? Never seen those. Square head (not sure
it's Robertson) on the panels, sure, but not the breakers themselves.

On 8/30/2013 4:40 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:19:59 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use

whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather
than

breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.

Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on
too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical
connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.

Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right?
;-)

I'm trying to think of where they're common in electrical work and I'm
not thinking of many uses.

Every outlet in my house has a Phillips head on the terminals. Well,
it's a combination Phillips/straight, I suppose. IIRC, the breakers,
are, too.

Typically the box screws and the screws on
the side of devices are either slotted (old) or combo head (modern), and
those are the only places you could even use a Phillips driver. Cover
plate screws are traditionally all slotted, and most of the circuit
breaker screws that I've seen are Robertson.

Robertson breaker screws? Never seen those. Square head (not sure
it's Robertson) on the panels, sure, but not the breakers themselves.


Siemens QP definitely are robertson, that's what I had in my last house.

Now that I look it up though, Square D QO use straight blade screws,
which is the obvious choice in a competing format.

nate

On 8/30/2013 1:19 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 8/30/2013 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use

whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather
than

breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.

Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on
too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical
connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.

Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right?
;-)

I'm trying to think of where they're common in electrical work and I'm
not thinking of many uses. Typically the box screws and the screws on
the side of devices are either slotted (old) or combo head (modern), and
those are the only places you could even use a Phillips driver. Cover
plate screws are traditionally all slotted, and most of the circuit
breaker screws that I've seen are Robertson.

nate


All of the new outlet covers I've put on lately have had Phillips head
screws but most of the covers I've installed these days have been for
network and phone jacks. The breakers and breaker panels I've installed
in the past few years have the square (Robertson) head screws on the
breakers, neutral and grounding bars. The large lugs have hex (Allen)
socket set screws. The new duplex outlet and switch covers that I've
installed lately still have flat head screws. The mounting screws for
new receptacles and switches I've been installing have Phillips or combo
screws and the steel outlet and switch boxes have the combo screws. The
grounding screws in the boxes and the stingers (grounding
wires) with screws have a combo screw that's Phillips, flat head and
5/16 hex that fits a nut driver. Things are really screwy with screws
these days so you must be careful not to screw up. ^_^

TDD

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted 100,000
miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old Mopars in my day -
'53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261? flathead, '63 Valiant 170
slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six, 1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976
Ramcharger 318, and numerous later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl
vehicles. The red ram was purchased with a blown motor at 100,000
miles and it had been apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles
on the clock when I sold it - head and valves had been done at least
once while I had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's
life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one.
A '74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but it
went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points.
Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it.
Until almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket.
It was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet.
But the body of that car dissolved REAL fast.
The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any V-8 I had back then.
That was before "lean burn."
Chevy had a good straight 6 too, 250 I think.
So it's good to remember "it's all relative."
A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you got excessive
blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 16:47:27 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 4:40 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:19:59 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 2:12 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use

whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather
than

breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.

Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on
too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical
connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.

Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right?
;-)

I'm trying to think of where they're common in electrical work and I'm
not thinking of many uses.

Every outlet in my house has a Phillips head on the terminals. Well,
it's a combination Phillips/straight, I suppose. IIRC, the breakers,
are, too.

Typically the box screws and the screws on
the side of devices are either slotted (old) or combo head (modern), and
those are the only places you could even use a Phillips driver. Cover
plate screws are traditionally all slotted, and most of the circuit
breaker screws that I've seen are Robertson.

Robertson breaker screws? Never seen those. Square head (not sure
it's Robertson) on the panels, sure, but not the breakers themselves.


Siemens QP definitely are robertson, that's what I had in my last house.

You're right, I hadn't noticed that. They're a combination of
square-recessed and flat blade. I've always used a flat blade driver
on them.

Now that I look it up though, Square D QO use straight blade screws,
which is the obvious choice in a competing format.

I don't know which series they are but I have some Square-Ds from my
other house. They have the same combination head as the Siemens.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 18:40:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted 100,000
miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old Mopars in my day -
'53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261? flathead, '63 Valiant 170
slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six, 1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976
Ramcharger 318, and numerous later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl
vehicles. The red ram was purchased with a blown motor at 100,000
miles and it had been apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles
on the clock when I sold it - head and valves had been done at least
once while I had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's
life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one.
A '74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but it
went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points.
Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it.
Until almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket.
It was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet.
But the body of that car dissolved REAL fast.
The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any V-8 I had back then.
That was before "lean burn."
Chevy had a good straight 6 too, 250 I think.
So it's good to remember "it's all relative."
A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you got excessive
blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.
As a professional mechanic I did a LOT of engine rebuilds on cars
built from the fifties to the seventies. Lots of valve jobs. Lots of
ring jobs, lots of bearing replacements. Replaced a lot of oil pumps,
timing chains and camshafts. Replaced a fair number of cyl heads too.

Ring jobs, bearing replacements, and even valve jobs are virtually
unheard of today. The average engine today goes to the scrapyard with
all of it's original internal parts and well over 100,000 miles on the
clock. It goes to the scrapyard when the body or chassis wears out -
usually with the engine still in decent mechanical condition.
Sometimes they go to the graveyard due to engine control systems
needing repair - engine not passing smog, etc. Some die an early death
due to timing belt failure (failure of owner to follow manufacturere's
recommendation to change the belt) or terminal lubrication failure
(failure of owner to change vital fluids) - but those are relatively
few in the grand scheme of things. Many go over 100,000 miles in SPITE
of poor maintenance,

Also, you had to tune them up once or twice a year, rebuild the
carburetor every couple of years, adjust or replace the choke several
times in a car's lifetime, atc, etc, etc. The vast majority of cars
today will go 100,000 miles on the original plugs, without having ANY
fuel system maintenance beyond possible fuel filter replacement, and
never having a single adjustment or ignition part replacement. Often
still on the original exhaust system too - remember a muffler shop on
every corner - always busy - and replacing the muffler every 2
years???

As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember that
little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual ballast
resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on the firewall
so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare in the glove
box. The '74 was the second year for electronic ignition on the
leaning tower of power. It had a very robust forged crank untill about
1978? and the 4 main bearings were the same size as on a 426 Hemi. The
block, designed to be built of either aluminum or cast iron, was
EXTREMELY stout in it's common cast iron form.- last used in North
American vehicles in 1987 trucks. and 1983 in cars.

GM's answer to the slant six was the 230/250 cu inch six - also a
pretty reliable and durable engine, used across the product line for
many years. Not quite in the same class as the slant six, but very
close.Also the 292 truck engine. In the US, GM produced other sixes
under the GMC label, as well as the Pontiac Sprint OHC

Ford had their 144/170/200/250 inline six that was no-where near in
the same class, Also the 240/300 truck engine - not a BAD engine, but
nothing remarkable.

AMC had the 199/232/258 /242 which was a VERY stout and reliable
engine (as long as you kept the oil changed to prevent the rocker
shaft from running dry). It was a 7 main bearing engine,

Of all the "old" sixes, the AMC lasted the longest in production - as
the 4.0 HO in the jeep up until 2006, with minor changes along the
way.

The AMC was the only one to survive into the Fuel Injection era, and
OBD2 engine controls.

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:
...snipped...
I wish I had my 64 Valiant and 65 Dart with the Slant Six and automatic
transmission. I even had a full sized 63 Dodge with a 225 Slant Six and
the darn big old hunk of steel would get up and go. I also had a 64
Dodge cab over engine pickup, the pickup made on the van chassis with
the cab forward and engine between the front seats like the van. It had
a Slant Six and was a neat little truck. The vehicles were simple and
easy to work on plus they rarely quit on you leaving you stranded. All
you had to do was keep them serviced and the critters would run forever.
I miss those old crates. ^_^


I had several Darts & Valiants years ago too, gave up the last one , a '73
in the late 90's as I recall. They were indeed rugged, easy to work on,
and reliable though needing maintenance somewhat more frequently than today's
cars. 200,000 miles on the slant 6 was not unusual. The difference was,
one of those slant 6's with 200,000 miles would typically need a quart of
oil every 500 miles or so. I have a 96 Cherokee today that has 200,000
miles and doesn't need a single quart of oil between oil changes, which
I do at 5000 miles. And it sure has a lot less rust on it than a 17 year old
Valiant or Dart would.


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 21:47:52 -0400, wrote:



As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember that
little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual ballast
resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on the firewall
so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare in the glove
box.

Nope, never had one fail. Don't know much about the engine, since I
never had to do any work on it except plugs/wires, and the valve cover
gasket. I did replace the spark module once, when I had some random
stalling. Unnecessary waste of 20 bucks.
I was about to drop the gas tank as a last resort, thinking somebody
had put something in there and it would block the pick-up randomly.
I didn't know squat about electrical testing then.
Got real lucky when I hung my head in despair thinking about dropping
the tank. I was leaning over the fender in just the right spot, and
the sun had moved to just the right spot. Caught a glint near the
back of the head. Primary ignition wire copper showing through melted
insulation.
My fault entirely. The harness dropped there when I pulled the valve
cover, and I hadn't noticed it, and hadn't rehung it.
The head melted a tiny piece off the insulation and that bare spot was
bouncing against the head randomly, grounding it.
It's my favorite fix for something that gave me so much hassle.
One half inch of electrical tape and rehang the harness.
Well, pulling an orange peel from the throat of my Bug's carb when it
died on me is a co-favorite.
Yeah, the newer engines are leagues better.
I did plug/point changes, dwell/timing adjustment spring and late fall
with my old cars. Choke adjustment was part of that too, and making
sure the fast idle cam was setting. New spark wires every fall.
What did that get me? Cars always started and ran good.
One Christmas Eve morning it had dropped to -25F and I went outside
to start my van because my wife just HAD to do more shopping.
Entire street had cars with hoods up, no exhaust from any of them.
Can't say I was confident my 350 would start.
Did my usual 2 pumps on the accelerator to prime it and set the choke.
Took foot off gas.
Turned the key. Took a couple seconds before it even cranked.
Then it SLOWLY turned, probably not even 45 degrees, and fired up.
Screeched a bit on the cylinder walls. Used straight 30 weight then.
Oil is better now too.
I helped 3 neighbors with jumps. I had excellent heavy cables and
cranked them all. None even fired. Already flooded, or just poorly
maintained ignition. Had to almost fight my way out of there to get
my wife to her shopping. Stores were almost empty, with skeleton
staffs.
Those temperatures are a good test to find out how you've maintained
your engine.
No way I want those old cars. I priced a carb for that 350 later.
Last time I had replaced one, it cost 25 bucks for a rebuilt Carter
single barrel. Cheapest 2 barrel I found for the 350 was +$400.
You're also right about valve jobs, worn rings, etc.
The last few cars I've had didn't even blink, as they passed 150k
miles. My 2.8 Celebrity went to about 190k with only injector
replacement. My 3.1 Lumina disappointed me by breaking the cam,
but it went 165K miles trouble free.
Both rusted out anyway. That's what always gets mine.
If it wasn't for rust, I'd have a new crate engine in the Lumina.

On 8/30/2013 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 18:40:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted
100,000 miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old
Mopars in my day - '53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261?
flathead, '63 Valiant 170 slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six,
1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976 Ramcharger 318, and numerous
later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl vehicles. The red ram was
purchased with a blown motor at 100,000 miles and it had been
apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles on the clock when
I sold it - head and valves had been done at least once while I
had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one. A
'74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but
it went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points. Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it. Until
almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket. It
was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet. But the body of that
car dissolved REAL fast. The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any
V-8 I had back then. That was before "lean burn." Chevy had a good
straight 6 too, 250 I think. So it's good to remember "it's all
relative." A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you
got excessive blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.
As a professional mechanic I did a LOT of engine rebuilds on cars
built from the fifties to the seventies. Lots of valve jobs. Lots of
ring jobs, lots of bearing replacements. Replaced a lot of oil
pumps, timing chains and camshafts. Replaced a fair number of cyl
heads too.

Ring jobs, bearing replacements, and even valve jobs are virtually
unheard of today. The average engine today goes to the scrapyard
with all of it's original internal parts and well over 100,000 miles
on the clock. It goes to the scrapyard when the body or chassis
wears out - usually with the engine still in decent mechanical
condition. Sometimes they go to the graveyard due to engine control
systems needing repair - engine not passing smog, etc. Some die an
early death due to timing belt failure (failure of owner to follow
manufacturere's recommendation to change the belt) or terminal
lubrication failure (failure of owner to change vital fluids) - but
those are relatively few in the grand scheme of things. Many go over
100,000 miles in SPITE of poor maintenance,

Also, you had to tune them up once or twice a year, rebuild the
carburetor every couple of years, adjust or replace the choke several
times in a car's lifetime, atc, etc, etc. The vast majority of cars
today will go 100,000 miles on the original plugs, without having ANY
fuel system maintenance beyond possible fuel filter replacement, and
never having a single adjustment or ignition part replacement. Often
still on the original exhaust system too - remember a muffler shop on
every corner - always busy - and replacing the muffler every 2
years???

As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember
that little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual
ballast resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on
the firewall so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare
in the glove box. The '74 was the second year for electronic
ignition on the leaning tower of power. It had a very robust forged
crank untill about 1978? and the 4 main bearings were the same size
as on a 426 Hemi. The block, designed to be built of either aluminum
or cast iron, was EXTREMELY stout in it's common cast iron form.-
last used in North American vehicles in 1987 trucks. and 1983 in
cars.

GM's answer to the slant six was the 230/250 cu inch six - also a
pretty reliable and durable engine, used across the product line for
many years. Not quite in the same class as the slant six, but very
close.Also the 292 truck engine. In the US, GM produced other sixes
under the GMC label, as well as the Pontiac Sprint OHC

Ford had their 144/170/200/250 inline six that was no-where near in
the same class, Also the 240/300 truck engine - not a BAD engine, but
nothing remarkable.

AMC had the 199/232/258 /242 which was a VERY stout and reliable
engine (as long as you kept the oil changed to prevent the rocker
shaft from running dry). It was a 7 main bearing engine,

Of all the "old" sixes, the AMC lasted the longest in production - as
the 4.0 HO in the jeep up until 2006, with minor changes along the
way.

The AMC was the only one to survive into the Fuel Injection era, and
OBD2 engine controls.


I liked the Slant Six, 318 based on the 273 thin walled casting and the
360. I have a 318 with TBI in my 89 Dodge van with around 100,000,000
miles on it, it keeps running for some odd reason. I put a lot of miles
on a Ford Econoline with a 300cid six and I was quite impressed with the
engine because it was very reliable and pushed the short wheelbase van
on down the highway while I ran service calls all over the Southeast.
Like anything else, if folks would keep the contraptions serviced the
golly gosh darn things keep running. Darn it, I wish I could crawl under
and around my vehicles like I could 20 years ago and work on them myself
because it really frustrates me. I've never worked as a professional
mechanic but I was self reliant when I worked on my own vehicles plus I
had pals I could always call, ask their advise and pick their brains for
obscure bits of information not commonly found in the manuals. ^_^

TDD

On 8/30/2013 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 18:40:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted 100,000
miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old Mopars in my day -
'53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261? flathead, '63 Valiant 170
slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six, 1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976
Ramcharger 318, and numerous later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl
vehicles. The red ram was purchased with a blown motor at 100,000
miles and it had been apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles
on the clock when I sold it - head and valves had been done at least
once while I had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's
life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one.
A '74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but it
went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points.
Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it.
Until almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket.
It was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet.
But the body of that car dissolved REAL fast.
The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any V-8 I had back then.
That was before "lean burn."
Chevy had a good straight 6 too, 250 I think.
So it's good to remember "it's all relative."
A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you got excessive
blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.
As a professional mechanic I did a LOT of engine rebuilds on cars
built from the fifties to the seventies. Lots of valve jobs. Lots of
ring jobs, lots of bearing replacements. Replaced a lot of oil pumps,
timing chains and camshafts. Replaced a fair number of cyl heads too.

Ring jobs, bearing replacements, and even valve jobs are virtually
unheard of today. The average engine today goes to the scrapyard with
all of it's original internal parts and well over 100,000 miles on the
clock. It goes to the scrapyard when the body or chassis wears out -
usually with the engine still in decent mechanical condition.
Sometimes they go to the graveyard due to engine control systems
needing repair - engine not passing smog, etc. Some die an early death
due to timing belt failure (failure of owner to follow manufacturere's
recommendation to change the belt) or terminal lubrication failure
(failure of owner to change vital fluids) - but those are relatively
few in the grand scheme of things. Many go over 100,000 miles in SPITE
of poor maintenance,

Also, you had to tune them up once or twice a year, rebuild the
carburetor every couple of years, adjust or replace the choke several
times in a car's lifetime, atc, etc, etc. The vast majority of cars
today will go 100,000 miles on the original plugs, without having ANY
fuel system maintenance beyond possible fuel filter replacement, and
never having a single adjustment or ignition part replacement. Often
still on the original exhaust system too - remember a muffler shop on
every corner - always busy - and replacing the muffler every 2
years???

As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember that
little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual ballast
resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on the firewall
so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare in the glove
box. The '74 was the second year for electronic ignition on the
leaning tower of power. It had a very robust forged crank untill about
1978? and the 4 main bearings were the same size as on a 426 Hemi. The
block, designed to be built of either aluminum or cast iron, was
EXTREMELY stout in it's common cast iron form.- last used in North
American vehicles in 1987 trucks. and 1983 in cars.

GM's answer to the slant six was the 230/250 cu inch six - also a
pretty reliable and durable engine, used across the product line for
many years. Not quite in the same class as the slant six, but very
close.Also the 292 truck engine. In the US, GM produced other sixes
under the GMC label, as well as the Pontiac Sprint OHC

Ford had their 144/170/200/250 inline six that was no-where near in
the same class, Also the 240/300 truck engine - not a BAD engine, but
nothing remarkable.

AMC had the 199/232/258 /242 which was a VERY stout and reliable
engine (as long as you kept the oil changed to prevent the rocker
shaft from running dry). It was a 7 main bearing engine,

Of all the "old" sixes, the AMC lasted the longest in production - as
the 4.0 HO in the jeep up until 2006, with minor changes along the
way.

The AMC was the only one to survive into the Fuel Injection era, and
OBD2 engine controls.


I had one 4 terminal ballast resistor fail until I bought the
replacement from NAPA that had a sealed back with the resistor wires
encased in some sort of white ceramic cement. The OEM module was open in
the back exposing the wire wound resistors to the elements which caused
them to corrode and burn out. O_o

TDD

Ideally, drivers in salt country go to the coin
operated car wash in the spring, and rinse all
the salt from the under side. Some do, some don't.

I've had springs push up into the trunk (1970
Chevrolet Nova) and I could have gotten it welded
and a plate put in. I should have. My next car
(1974 Dodge Dart) was the first year they used
electronic ignition. Would not run when it was
wet or raining. The Nova got 16 MPG, the Dart
got 10.5 or so MPG. Wish I never bought that
Dart, it really was frustrating. Very often would
not start due to water, ballast resistor, etc.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/30/2013 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 08:33:00 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Farther north of you, the DOT salts the roads a
bit much in the winter. We still have drivers

My pickup's back end completely rotted (leaf springs were resting on
the frame) because of the 6-7 years in the VT (and a year of NE OH)
salt. I just replaced it with a '13. No salt down here[*], so I
should be good for a good long while. ;-)

[*] The drivers are worse, though.

On Friday, August 30, 2013 2:12:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR

wrote:



On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:

If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use



whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather than



breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.



Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.



Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right? ;-)

So, do you disbelieve the claim that Phillips screws are designed to cam out?

On 8/31/2013 6:54 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Ideally, drivers in salt country go to the coin
operated car wash in the spring, and rinse all
the salt from the under side. Some do, some don't.

I've had springs push up into the trunk (1970
Chevrolet Nova) and I could have gotten it welded
and a plate put in. I should have. My next car
(1974 Dodge Dart) was the first year they used
electronic ignition. Would not run when it was
wet or raining. The Nova got 16 MPG, the Dart
got 10.5 or so MPG. Wish I never bought that
Dart, it really was frustrating. Very often would
not start due to water, ballast resistor, etc.


The fix was to replace the OEM open back 4 terminal ballast resistor
with the sealed 4 terminal ballast resistor available from NAPA. I've
had two problems that affected the engine on my 89 Dodge van and it was
a clogged sock on the in tank fuel pump because someone (perhaps on the
assembly line) had installed the pump with the sock folded over leaving
only a quarter coin sized bit of screen for the pump to draw fuel
through and just a little bit of debris clogged it up. The other was a
defective Hall Effect sensor in the distributor. Two hard to find yet
simple problems that were hard to find. Decoding the computer codes led
me to the distributor problem and experience made me suspicious of the
fuel pick up in the gas tank, which is a huge plastic tank by the way.
The engine in the old critter always runs now no matter how long it
sits. I haven't done much driving since I dropped dead or been able to
get the 24 foot extension ladder off the ladder rack but the old van is
patiently waiting for my return. ^_^

TDD

The fix was to replace the OEM open back 4 terminal ballast resistor
with the sealed 4 terminal ballast resistor available from NAPA.

CY: Bother, didn't know they were available.


I've
had two problems that affected the engine on my 89 Dodge van and it was
a clogged sock on the in tank fuel pump because someone (perhaps on the
assembly line) had installed the pump with the sock folded over leaving
only a quarter coin sized bit of screen for the pump to draw fuel
through and just a little bit of debris clogged it up.

CY: you know, one of my vans had a clogged fuel pickup tube. No sock on
the end. A neighbor showed me how to get the fuel tube out, knock the
ring to the left, and pull the tube. Had to run the fuel level down, in
the tank. That took a couple days. Just a tube, with no sock. I reamed
it out with a coat hanger, and it worked much better.


The other was a
defective Hall Effect sensor in the distributor. Two hard to find yet
simple problems that were hard to find. Decoding the computer codes led
me to the distributor problem and experience made me suspicious of the
fuel pick up in the gas tank, which is a huge plastic tank by the way.

CY: Bummer on the distributor. I've seen two instance of defective
pickup coil inside the distributor, both on GM. No, make that three. My
Chevette had a pickup coil with bad wires, rubbed through.


The engine in the old critter always runs now no matter how long it
sits. I haven't done much driving since I dropped dead or been able to
get the 24 foot extension ladder off the ladder rack but the old van is
patiently waiting for my return. ^_^

CY: You named the truck Lassie, I'd guess?


TDD

On 8/31/2013 8:29 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Only if the shoes are built by Government
Motors, and vote Democrat.


Yea, it's just a walk in the park for government shoe manufacturers. ^_^

TDD

On 8/31/2013 9:03 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


The fix was to replace the OEM open back 4 terminal ballast resistor
with the sealed 4 terminal ballast resistor available from NAPA.

CY: Bother, didn't know they were available.


I've
had two problems that affected the engine on my 89 Dodge van and it was
a clogged sock on the in tank fuel pump because someone (perhaps on the
assembly line) had installed the pump with the sock folded over leaving
only a quarter coin sized bit of screen for the pump to draw fuel
through and just a little bit of debris clogged it up.

CY: you know, one of my vans had a clogged fuel pickup tube. No sock on
the end. A neighbor showed me how to get the fuel tube out, knock the
ring to the left, and pull the tube. Had to run the fuel level down, in
the tank. That took a couple days. Just a tube, with no sock. I reamed
it out with a coat hanger, and it worked much better.


The other was a
defective Hall Effect sensor in the distributor. Two hard to find yet
simple problems that were hard to find. Decoding the computer codes led
me to the distributor problem and experience made me suspicious of the
fuel pick up in the gas tank, which is a huge plastic tank by the way.

CY: Bummer on the distributor. I've seen two instance of defective
pickup coil inside the distributor, both on GM. No, make that three. My
Chevette had a pickup coil with bad wires, rubbed through.


The engine in the old critter always runs now no matter how long it
sits. I haven't done much driving since I dropped dead or been able to
get the 24 foot extension ladder off the ladder rack but the old van is
patiently waiting for my return. ^_^

CY: You named the truck Lassie, I'd guess?


Nope, "Big Red" the hunk of metal is a maroon color. ^_^

TDD

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 23:09:35 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 18:40:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted
100,000 miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old
Mopars in my day - '53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261?
flathead, '63 Valiant 170 slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six,
1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976 Ramcharger 318, and numerous
later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl vehicles. The red ram was
purchased with a blown motor at 100,000 miles and it had been
apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles on the clock when
I sold it - head and valves had been done at least once while I
had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one. A
'74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but
it went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points. Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it. Until
almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket. It
was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet. But the body of that
car dissolved REAL fast. The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any
V-8 I had back then. That was before "lean burn." Chevy had a good
straight 6 too, 250 I think. So it's good to remember "it's all
relative." A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you
got excessive blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.
As a professional mechanic I did a LOT of engine rebuilds on cars
built from the fifties to the seventies. Lots of valve jobs. Lots of
ring jobs, lots of bearing replacements. Replaced a lot of oil
pumps, timing chains and camshafts. Replaced a fair number of cyl
heads too.

Ring jobs, bearing replacements, and even valve jobs are virtually
unheard of today. The average engine today goes to the scrapyard
with all of it's original internal parts and well over 100,000 miles
on the clock. It goes to the scrapyard when the body or chassis
wears out - usually with the engine still in decent mechanical
condition. Sometimes they go to the graveyard due to engine control
systems needing repair - engine not passing smog, etc. Some die an
early death due to timing belt failure (failure of owner to follow
manufacturere's recommendation to change the belt) or terminal
lubrication failure (failure of owner to change vital fluids) - but
those are relatively few in the grand scheme of things. Many go over
100,000 miles in SPITE of poor maintenance,

Also, you had to tune them up once or twice a year, rebuild the
carburetor every couple of years, adjust or replace the choke several
times in a car's lifetime, atc, etc, etc. The vast majority of cars
today will go 100,000 miles on the original plugs, without having ANY
fuel system maintenance beyond possible fuel filter replacement, and
never having a single adjustment or ignition part replacement. Often
still on the original exhaust system too - remember a muffler shop on
every corner - always busy - and replacing the muffler every 2
years???

As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember
that little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual
ballast resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on
the firewall so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare
in the glove box. The '74 was the second year for electronic
ignition on the leaning tower of power. It had a very robust forged
crank untill about 1978? and the 4 main bearings were the same size
as on a 426 Hemi. The block, designed to be built of either aluminum
or cast iron, was EXTREMELY stout in it's common cast iron form.-
last used in North American vehicles in 1987 trucks. and 1983 in
cars.

GM's answer to the slant six was the 230/250 cu inch six - also a
pretty reliable and durable engine, used across the product line for
many years. Not quite in the same class as the slant six, but very
close.Also the 292 truck engine. In the US, GM produced other sixes
under the GMC label, as well as the Pontiac Sprint OHC

Ford had their 144/170/200/250 inline six that was no-where near in
the same class, Also the 240/300 truck engine - not a BAD engine, but
nothing remarkable.

AMC had the 199/232/258 /242 which was a VERY stout and reliable
engine (as long as you kept the oil changed to prevent the rocker
shaft from running dry). It was a 7 main bearing engine,

Of all the "old" sixes, the AMC lasted the longest in production - as
the 4.0 HO in the jeep up until 2006, with minor changes along the
way.

The AMC was the only one to survive into the Fuel Injection era, and
OBD2 engine controls.


I liked the Slant Six, 318 based on the 273 thin walled casting and the
360. I have a 318 with TBI in my 89 Dodge van with around 100,000,000
miles on it, it keeps running for some odd reason. I put a lot of miles
on a Ford Econoline with a 300cid six and I was quite impressed with the
engine because it was very reliable and pushed the short wheelbase van
on down the highway while I ran service calls all over the Southeast.
Like anything else, if folks would keep the contraptions serviced the
golly gosh darn things keep running. Darn it, I wish I could crawl under
and around my vehicles like I could 20 years ago and work on them myself
because it really frustrates me. I've never worked as a professional
mechanic but I was self reliant when I worked on my own vehicles plus I
had pals I could always call, ask their advise and pick their brains for
obscure bits of information not commonly found in the manuals. ^_^

TDD
Yes, the old Ford 300 and the Checy 292 six had GOBS of torque -
would outpull their302 and 327 cu inch v8 "brothers" any day of the
week in truck service. Used to pull a tri-axle float behind a '68 C30
292 with 22 tons of ag equipment.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 23:27:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 18:40:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted 100,000
miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old Mopars in my day -
'53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261? flathead, '63 Valiant 170
slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six, 1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976
Ramcharger 318, and numerous later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl
vehicles. The red ram was purchased with a blown motor at 100,000
miles and it had been apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles
on the clock when I sold it - head and valves had been done at least
once while I had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's
life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one.
A '74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but it
went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points.
Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it.
Until almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket.
It was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet.
But the body of that car dissolved REAL fast.
The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any V-8 I had back then.
That was before "lean burn."
Chevy had a good straight 6 too, 250 I think.
So it's good to remember "it's all relative."
A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you got excessive
blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.
As a professional mechanic I did a LOT of engine rebuilds on cars
built from the fifties to the seventies. Lots of valve jobs. Lots of
ring jobs, lots of bearing replacements. Replaced a lot of oil pumps,
timing chains and camshafts. Replaced a fair number of cyl heads too.

Ring jobs, bearing replacements, and even valve jobs are virtually
unheard of today. The average engine today goes to the scrapyard with
all of it's original internal parts and well over 100,000 miles on the
clock. It goes to the scrapyard when the body or chassis wears out -
usually with the engine still in decent mechanical condition.
Sometimes they go to the graveyard due to engine control systems
needing repair - engine not passing smog, etc. Some die an early death
due to timing belt failure (failure of owner to follow manufacturere's
recommendation to change the belt) or terminal lubrication failure
(failure of owner to change vital fluids) - but those are relatively
few in the grand scheme of things. Many go over 100,000 miles in SPITE
of poor maintenance,

Also, you had to tune them up once or twice a year, rebuild the
carburetor every couple of years, adjust or replace the choke several
times in a car's lifetime, atc, etc, etc. The vast majority of cars
today will go 100,000 miles on the original plugs, without having ANY
fuel system maintenance beyond possible fuel filter replacement, and
never having a single adjustment or ignition part replacement. Often
still on the original exhaust system too - remember a muffler shop on
every corner - always busy - and replacing the muffler every 2
years???

As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember that
little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual ballast
resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on the firewall
so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare in the glove
box. The '74 was the second year for electronic ignition on the
leaning tower of power. It had a very robust forged crank untill about
1978? and the 4 main bearings were the same size as on a 426 Hemi. The
block, designed to be built of either aluminum or cast iron, was
EXTREMELY stout in it's common cast iron form.- last used in North
American vehicles in 1987 trucks. and 1983 in cars.

GM's answer to the slant six was the 230/250 cu inch six - also a
pretty reliable and durable engine, used across the product line for
many years. Not quite in the same class as the slant six, but very
close.Also the 292 truck engine. In the US, GM produced other sixes
under the GMC label, as well as the Pontiac Sprint OHC

Ford had their 144/170/200/250 inline six that was no-where near in
the same class, Also the 240/300 truck engine - not a BAD engine, but
nothing remarkable.

AMC had the 199/232/258 /242 which was a VERY stout and reliable
engine (as long as you kept the oil changed to prevent the rocker
shaft from running dry). It was a 7 main bearing engine,

Of all the "old" sixes, the AMC lasted the longest in production - as
the 4.0 HO in the jeep up until 2006, with minor changes along the
way.

The AMC was the only one to survive into the Fuel Injection era, and
OBD2 engine controls.


I had one 4 terminal ballast resistor fail until I bought the
replacement from NAPA that had a sealed back with the resistor wires
encased in some sort of white ceramic cement. The OEM module was open in
the back exposing the wire wound resistors to the elements which caused
them to corrode and burn out. O_o

TDD
Even the napa supplied Echlin Blue Streak resistor was not imune to
failure. It was thermal shock, not corrosion that killed them.
They would NEVER let you down when running - they just failed to
start.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:54:37 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Ideally, drivers in salt country go to the coin
operated car wash in the spring, and rinse all
the salt from the under side. Some do, some don't.

I've had springs push up into the trunk (1970
Chevrolet Nova) and I could have gotten it welded
and a plate put in. I should have. My next car
(1974 Dodge Dart) was the first year they used
electronic ignition. Would not run when it was
wet or raining. The Nova got 16 MPG, the Dart
got 10.5 or so MPG. Wish I never bought that
Dart, it really was frustrating. Very often would
not start due to water, ballast resistor, etc.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org

The "silver beauty" MSW wires were about $19 at the time and would
start with a garden hose running over the engine. I NEVER had damp
start problems on ANY of my many Mopars - 53 241 hemi, 57 fargo
flathead 6, 63 valiant 170, 69 dart 225, 75 dart 225, 76 ramcharger
318, 85 lebaron 2.6, 88 New Yorker 3.0, 2002 PT Cruiser 2.4
.

On 8/30/2013 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 08:33:00 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Farther north of you, the DOT salts the roads a
bit much in the winter. We still have drivers

My pickup's back end completely rotted (leaf springs were resting on
the frame) because of the 6-7 years in the VT (and a year of NE OH)
salt. I just replaced it with a '13. No salt down here[*], so I
should be good for a good long while. ;-)

[*] The drivers are worse, though.

On 8/31/2013 11:38 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 23:09:35 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 18:40:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted
100,000 miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old
Mopars in my day - '53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261?
flathead, '63 Valiant 170 slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six,
1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976 Ramcharger 318, and numerous
later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl vehicles. The red ram was
purchased with a blown motor at 100,000 miles and it had been
apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles on the clock when
I sold it - head and valves had been done at least once while I
had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one. A
'74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but
it went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points. Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it. Until
almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket. It
was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet. But the body of that
car dissolved REAL fast. The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any
V-8 I had back then. That was before "lean burn." Chevy had a good
straight 6 too, 250 I think. So it's good to remember "it's all
relative." A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you
got excessive blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.
As a professional mechanic I did a LOT of engine rebuilds on cars
built from the fifties to the seventies. Lots of valve jobs. Lots of
ring jobs, lots of bearing replacements. Replaced a lot of oil
pumps, timing chains and camshafts. Replaced a fair number of cyl
heads too.

Ring jobs, bearing replacements, and even valve jobs are virtually
unheard of today. The average engine today goes to the scrapyard
with all of it's original internal parts and well over 100,000 miles
on the clock. It goes to the scrapyard when the body or chassis
wears out - usually with the engine still in decent mechanical
condition. Sometimes they go to the graveyard due to engine control
systems needing repair - engine not passing smog, etc. Some die an
early death due to timing belt failure (failure of owner to follow
manufacturere's recommendation to change the belt) or terminal
lubrication failure (failure of owner to change vital fluids) - but
those are relatively few in the grand scheme of things. Many go over
100,000 miles in SPITE of poor maintenance,

Also, you had to tune them up once or twice a year, rebuild the
carburetor every couple of years, adjust or replace the choke several
times in a car's lifetime, atc, etc, etc. The vast majority of cars
today will go 100,000 miles on the original plugs, without having ANY
fuel system maintenance beyond possible fuel filter replacement, and
never having a single adjustment or ignition part replacement. Often
still on the original exhaust system too - remember a muffler shop on
every corner - always busy - and replacing the muffler every 2
years???

As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember
that little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual
ballast resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on
the firewall so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare
in the glove box. The '74 was the second year for electronic
ignition on the leaning tower of power. It had a very robust forged
crank untill about 1978? and the 4 main bearings were the same size
as on a 426 Hemi. The block, designed to be built of either aluminum
or cast iron, was EXTREMELY stout in it's common cast iron form.-
last used in North American vehicles in 1987 trucks. and 1983 in
cars.

GM's answer to the slant six was the 230/250 cu inch six - also a
pretty reliable and durable engine, used across the product line for
many years. Not quite in the same class as the slant six, but very
close.Also the 292 truck engine. In the US, GM produced other sixes
under the GMC label, as well as the Pontiac Sprint OHC

Ford had their 144/170/200/250 inline six that was no-where near in
the same class, Also the 240/300 truck engine - not a BAD engine, but
nothing remarkable.

AMC had the 199/232/258 /242 which was a VERY stout and reliable
engine (as long as you kept the oil changed to prevent the rocker
shaft from running dry). It was a 7 main bearing engine,

Of all the "old" sixes, the AMC lasted the longest in production - as
the 4.0 HO in the jeep up until 2006, with minor changes along the
way.

The AMC was the only one to survive into the Fuel Injection era, and
OBD2 engine controls.


I liked the Slant Six, 318 based on the 273 thin walled casting and the
360. I have a 318 with TBI in my 89 Dodge van with around 100,000,000
miles on it, it keeps running for some odd reason. I put a lot of miles
on a Ford Econoline with a 300cid six and I was quite impressed with the
engine because it was very reliable and pushed the short wheelbase van
on down the highway while I ran service calls all over the Southeast.
Like anything else, if folks would keep the contraptions serviced the
golly gosh darn things keep running. Darn it, I wish I could crawl under
and around my vehicles like I could 20 years ago and work on them myself
because it really frustrates me. I've never worked as a professional
mechanic but I was self reliant when I worked on my own vehicles plus I
had pals I could always call, ask their advise and pick their brains for
obscure bits of information not commonly found in the manuals. ^_^

TDD
Yes, the old Ford 300 and the Checy 292 six had GOBS of torque -
would outpull their302 and 327 cu inch v8 "brothers" any day of the
week in truck service. Used to pull a tri-axle float behind a '68 C30
292 with 22 tons of ag equipment.


Yea, most folks don't understand the difference in an engine meant for
an automobile and an engine made for a truck. I was impressed with the
Ford 300 six with an automatic in the Ford Econoline. ^_^

TDD

On 8/31/2013 11:57 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 23:27:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/30/2013 8:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 18:40:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:09:23 -0400, wrote:


And the "go forever" is just faulty memory. VERY few lasted 100,000
miles without major engine work. I had a lot od old Mopars in my day -
'53 Coronet Red Ram (hemi) , 57 Fargo 261? flathead, '63 Valiant 170
slant six, '69 dart 225 slant six, 1975 Dart Sport 225 slant six, 1976
Ramcharger 318, and numerous later mitsubishi-based 4 and 6 cyl
vehicles. The red ram was purchased with a blown motor at 100,000
miles and it had been apart previously. The Fargo had 225,000 miles
on the clock when I sold it - head and valves had been done at least
once while I had it, and who knows what in the first 20 years of it's
life.

And the mopars were the GOOD vehicles back then

Yes, it's relative. I'm not a Mopar fan, and only owned one.
A '74 Dart Swinger with a 225. Can't remember the miles on it, but it
went over 100k. First car I had with "electronic ignition."
No points.
Bought it used and put maybe 30k mile on it.
Until almost 20 years later, it was the most trouble free engine I've
had. Just did fluid changes, plugs and a rocker cover gasket.
It was a dog with torque, but otherwise sweet.
But the body of that car dissolved REAL fast.
The 1974 225 was longer-lasting than any V-8 I had back then.
That was before "lean burn."
Chevy had a good straight 6 too, 250 I think.
So it's good to remember "it's all relative."
A well-maintained VW Bug might only go 60k before you got excessive
blow-by and had to replace the jugs/rings.
As a professional mechanic I did a LOT of engine rebuilds on cars
built from the fifties to the seventies. Lots of valve jobs. Lots of
ring jobs, lots of bearing replacements. Replaced a lot of oil pumps,
timing chains and camshafts. Replaced a fair number of cyl heads too.

Ring jobs, bearing replacements, and even valve jobs are virtually
unheard of today. The average engine today goes to the scrapyard with
all of it's original internal parts and well over 100,000 miles on the
clock. It goes to the scrapyard when the body or chassis wears out -
usually with the engine still in decent mechanical condition.
Sometimes they go to the graveyard due to engine control systems
needing repair - engine not passing smog, etc. Some die an early death
due to timing belt failure (failure of owner to follow manufacturere's
recommendation to change the belt) or terminal lubrication failure
(failure of owner to change vital fluids) - but those are relatively
few in the grand scheme of things. Many go over 100,000 miles in SPITE
of poor maintenance,

Also, you had to tune them up once or twice a year, rebuild the
carburetor every couple of years, adjust or replace the choke several
times in a car's lifetime, atc, etc, etc. The vast majority of cars
today will go 100,000 miles on the original plugs, without having ANY
fuel system maintenance beyond possible fuel filter replacement, and
never having a single adjustment or ignition part replacement. Often
still on the original exhaust system too - remember a muffler shop on
every corner - always busy - and replacing the muffler every 2
years???

As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember that
little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual ballast
resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on the firewall
so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare in the glove
box. The '74 was the second year for electronic ignition on the
leaning tower of power. It had a very robust forged crank untill about
1978? and the 4 main bearings were the same size as on a 426 Hemi. The
block, designed to be built of either aluminum or cast iron, was
EXTREMELY stout in it's common cast iron form.- last used in North
American vehicles in 1987 trucks. and 1983 in cars.

GM's answer to the slant six was the 230/250 cu inch six - also a
pretty reliable and durable engine, used across the product line for
many years. Not quite in the same class as the slant six, but very
close.Also the 292 truck engine. In the US, GM produced other sixes
under the GMC label, as well as the Pontiac Sprint OHC

Ford had their 144/170/200/250 inline six that was no-where near in
the same class, Also the 240/300 truck engine - not a BAD engine, but
nothing remarkable.

AMC had the 199/232/258 /242 which was a VERY stout and reliable
engine (as long as you kept the oil changed to prevent the rocker
shaft from running dry). It was a 7 main bearing engine,

Of all the "old" sixes, the AMC lasted the longest in production - as
the 4.0 HO in the jeep up until 2006, with minor changes along the
way.

The AMC was the only one to survive into the Fuel Injection era, and
OBD2 engine controls.


I had one 4 terminal ballast resistor fail until I bought the
replacement from NAPA that had a sealed back with the resistor wires
encased in some sort of white ceramic cement. The OEM module was open in
the back exposing the wire wound resistors to the elements which caused
them to corrode and burn out. O_o

TDD
Even the napa supplied Echlin Blue Streak resistor was not imune to
failure. It was thermal shock, not corrosion that killed them.
They would NEVER let you down when running - they just failed to
start.


After I installed the Echlin resistor, I never had another failure. I
imagine there were gobs of new resistors winding up in the Autoreilly
Zone parts stores that were made in someplace like Taiwan or India. It's
a good bet that those cheap ass resistors failed all the time.
The new rotors I bought for my Dodge van came from China but the damn
brakes have worked OK so far for the past 5 years. ^_^

TDD

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:43:57 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




Yea, most folks don't understand the difference in an engine meant for
an automobile and an engine made for a truck. I was impressed with the
Ford 300 six with an automatic in the Ford Econoline. ^_^

TDD


Lots of horsepower is good. Torque? Tork? Dork? Many people have
no idea.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 06:21:28 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Friday, August 30, 2013 2:12:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT), TimR

wrote:



On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:33:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:

If I'm buying the screws I prefer Torx but I agree that I'll use



whatever. Philips does have the advantage of camming out rather than



breaking. Drywall screws, of course, are Philips.



Yes. Phillips screws are intended to cam out to prevent putting on too much torque. If you need more torque, like on an electrical connection, Phillips is the wrong choice.



Which is why Phillips are so common in electrical wiring, right? ;-)

So, do you disbelieve the claim that Phillips screws are designed to cam out?

So, do you really believe that I said "Philips does have the advantage
of camming out" because I disbelieve "that Phillips screws are
designed to cam out"? Good grief! READ, MAN!

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:20:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 21:47:52 -0400, wrote:



As for the '74 slant six - and the electronic ignition - remember that
little 4 terminal ceramic block on the firewall? The dual ballast
resistor? That failed quite regularly? I always had 2 on the firewall
so I could switch without tools, and generally a spare in the glove
box.

Nope, never had one fail. Don't know much about the engine, since I
never had to do any work on it except plugs/wires, and the valve cover
gasket. I did replace the spark module once, when I had some random
stalling. Unnecessary waste of 20 bucks.

Not all years' engines were created equal. Mopar went through several
years where they were cheapening the slant-sixes to where they were
junk. Chrysler hasn't made a decent car since.

I was about to drop the gas tank as a last resort, thinking somebody
had put something in there and it would block the pick-up randomly.
I didn't know squat about electrical testing then.
Got real lucky when I hung my head in despair thinking about dropping
the tank. I was leaning over the fender in just the right spot, and
the sun had moved to just the right spot. Caught a glint near the
back of the head. Primary ignition wire copper showing through melted
insulation.

Copper ignition wire? Really? Though, ignition wires are first on my
list of suspects when such things happen. They're cheap and usually
easy to replace (my Vision TSI and Intrepid were the exceptions).

My fault entirely. The harness dropped there when I pulled the valve
cover, and I hadn't noticed it, and hadn't rehung it.
The head melted a tiny piece off the insulation and that bare spot was
bouncing against the head randomly, grounding it.
It's my favorite fix for something that gave me so much hassle.
One half inch of electrical tape and rehang the harness.
Well, pulling an orange peel from the throat of my Bug's carb when it
died on me is a co-favorite.

Why not replace the wire?

Yeah, the newer engines are leagues better.
I did plug/point changes, dwell/timing adjustment spring and late fall
with my old cars. Choke adjustment was part of that too, and making
sure the fast idle cam was setting. New spark wires every fall.
What did that get me? Cars always started and ran good.
One Christmas Eve morning it had dropped to -25F and I went outside
to start my van because my wife just HAD to do more shopping.
Entire street had cars with hoods up, no exhaust from any of them.
Can't say I was confident my 350 would start.
Did my usual 2 pumps on the accelerator to prime it and set the choke.
Took foot off gas.
Turned the key. Took a couple seconds before it even cranked.
Then it SLOWLY turned, probably not even 45 degrees, and fired up.
Screeched a bit on the cylinder walls. Used straight 30 weight then.
Oil is better now too.

Agree 100%, though it was usually the rainiest 33F day in November
when I had to replace the points and wires. I *definitely* like newer
cars. Nothing to do.

I helped 3 neighbors with jumps. I had excellent heavy cables and
cranked them all. None even fired. Already flooded, or just poorly
maintained ignition. Had to almost fight my way out of there to get
my wife to her shopping. Stores were almost empty, with skeleton
staffs.

Clearing a flooded engine isn't hard. Some will never start at that
temperature, though. My guess is that some of them had frozen fuel
lines.

Those temperatures are a good test to find out how you've maintained
your engine.
No way I want those old cars. I priced a carb for that 350 later.
Last time I had replaced one, it cost 25 bucks for a rebuilt Carter
single barrel. Cheapest 2 barrel I found for the 350 was +$400.

My '78 Ford ate a carb once a year. It used to **** me off but a new
one was only $80ish. Rebuilts were a waste of time.

You're also right about valve jobs, worn rings, etc.
The last few cars I've had didn't even blink, as they passed 150k
miles.

I haven't gotten quite that far yet. The best have rotted out before
that. I just replaced my '01 Ranger. ...and the wife's '00 Sable,
but she just had to have the shiny Mustang convertible, that matched
the truck I bought.

My 2.8 Celebrity went to about 190k with only injector
replacement. My 3.1 Lumina disappointed me by breaking the cam,
but it went 165K miles trouble free.
Both rusted out anyway. That's what always gets mine.
If it wasn't for rust, I'd have a new crate engine in the Lumina

If it wasn't for rust (Fords) and transmissions (Chryslers), I'd have
kept my cars much longer. Repairs are cheap but once the rust sets in
there is nothing left.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:54:37 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Ideally, drivers in salt country go to the coin
operated car wash in the spring, and rinse all
the salt from the under side. Some do, some don't.

Too late. The damage is done.

I've had springs push up into the trunk (1970
Chevrolet Nova) and I could have gotten it welded
and a plate put in. I should have.

The frame would have had to be replaced. The garage wouldn't even
touch the job. Understandable, the rest of the truck wasn't worth it,
anyway. Hope this is the last one I buy.

My next car
(1974 Dodge Dart) was the first year they used
electronic ignition. Would not run when it was
wet or raining. The Nova got 16 MPG, the Dart
got 10.5 or so MPG. Wish I never bought that
Dart, it really was frustrating. Very often would
not start due to water, ballast resistor, etc.

I thought Nova == no-go. The '70s were bad for all cars.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:57:11 -0400, wrote:




I thought Nova == no-go. The '70s were bad for all cars.

Sure was a bad decade. They had seatbelt interlocks for safety,
mandated low pollution and were just getting into the MPG thing
making lighter cars. It was a decade of learning experiences.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:13:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:43:57 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




Yea, most folks don't understand the difference in an engine meant for
an automobile and an engine made for a truck. I was impressed with the
Ford 300 six with an automatic in the Ford Econoline. ^_^

TDD


Lots of horsepower is good. Torque? Tork? Dork? Many people have
no idea.

That's what transmissions are for.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:34:41 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:57:11 -0400, wrote:




I thought Nova == no-go. The '70s were bad for all cars.

Sure was a bad decade. They had seatbelt interlocks for safety,
mandated low pollution and were just getting into the MPG thing
making lighter cars. It was a decade of learning experiences.

The decade the government started serious intrusions into our lives,
"to protect us", or "for the children", yes. Bad time and that's been
a one-way trip.

As far as the (US) auto manufacturers go, it was a decade of cost
reductions and planned obsolescence. Cars were *designed* to last
three years. After all, that's what "people wanted". ...until the
Japanese showed them the error of their ways. It took another decade
or three to actually learn the lesson, though.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:13:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:43:57 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




Yea, most folks don't understand the difference in an engine meant for
an automobile and an engine made for a truck. I was impressed with the
Ford 300 six with an automatic in the Ford Econoline. ^_^

TDD


Lots of horsepower is good. Torque? Tork? Dork? Many people have
no idea.
Easy way to tell. If the torque is higher than the horsepower, you
know it makes it's max power at low RPM (below 5250 rpm)

On 8/31/2013 9:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:13:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:43:57 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




Yea, most folks don't understand the difference in an engine meant for
an automobile and an engine made for a truck. I was impressed with the
Ford 300 six with an automatic in the Ford Econoline. ^_^

TDD


Lots of horsepower is good. Torque? Tork? Dork? Many people have
no idea.
Easy way to tell. If the torque is higher than the horsepower, you
know it makes it's max power at low RPM (below 5250 rpm)


I rebuilt the engine in my dad's 1949 Ferguson tractor that was made for
torque and not necessarily horsepower. It was fun and I got rid of the 6
volt generator, converted the electrical system to 12 volts and added a
used Chrysler alternator to the old mule. The engine had an updraft
carburetor and I believe it would run anything that would evaporate and
burn like the **** from a drunk. It was simple to service and really
didn't care how you treated it because it would keep on running through
the years and lots of abuse from my little brothers. ^_^

TDD

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:42:47 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:20:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:


Not all years' engines were created equal. Mopar went through several
years where they were cheapening the slant-sixes to where they were
junk. Chrysler hasn't made a decent car since.


Only know my '74 was trouble-free. Googling I see it was probably
"lean burn" that screwed them up. A couple-few years later.

Why not replace the wire?


Never even entered my mind. A tiny piece of melted insulation is
easily taped. And when I hung it back where it belonged it was in a
dry undisturbed place. Maybe if my car was a boat.

On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 00:15:46 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:42:47 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:20:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:


Not all years' engines were created equal. Mopar went through several
years where they were cheapening the slant-sixes to where they were
junk. Chrysler hasn't made a decent car since.


Only know my '74 was trouble-free. Googling I see it was probably
"lean burn" that screwed them up. A couple-few years later.

Why not replace the wire?


Never even entered my mind. A tiny piece of melted insulation is
easily taped. And when I hung it back where it belonged it was in a
dry undisturbed place. Maybe if my car was a boat.

The 1978 model year was the beginning of the end for the slant six -
different head, cast crank, lean burn, and all that crap combined to
make it less driveable, less reliable, less efficient, and overall
less desireable.

They HAVE built some very good cars since - if you compare them to the
older stuff. Mabee not so good if you compare them to some of their
competition.

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 23:43:32 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 8/31/2013 9:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:13:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:43:57 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




Yea, most folks don't understand the difference in an engine meant for
an automobile and an engine made for a truck. I was impressed with the
Ford 300 six with an automatic in the Ford Econoline. ^_^

TDD


Lots of horsepower is good. Torque? Tork? Dork? Many people have
no idea.
Easy way to tell. If the torque is higher than the horsepower, you
know it makes it's max power at low RPM (below 5250 rpm)


I rebuilt the engine in my dad's 1949 Ferguson tractor that was made for
torque and not necessarily horsepower. It was fun and I got rid of the 6
volt generator, converted the electrical system to 12 volts and added a
used Chrysler alternator to the old mule. The engine had an updraft
carburetor and I believe it would run anything that would evaporate and
burn like the **** from a drunk. It was simple to service and really
didn't care how you treated it because it would keep on running through
the years and lots of abuse from my little brothers. ^_^

TDD
And that simple little torque monter also powered all of the 4 cyl
Standard Vanguard cars of the day, as well as the early TR sports cars
--TR2, TR3 and I believe TR4 series. The TR250 was the first to get an
"automotive" engine.

On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 00:15:46 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:42:47 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:20:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:


Not all years' engines were created equal. Mopar went through several
years where they were cheapening the slant-sixes to where they were
junk. Chrysler hasn't made a decent car since.


Only know my '74 was trouble-free. Googling I see it was probably
"lean burn" that screwed them up. A couple-few years later.

Other than a carb every year, my '74 Ford Granada was trouble-free,
too. Mine was probably the only one, though. Anecdote data.

Why not replace the wire?


Never even entered my mind. A tiny piece of melted insulation is
easily taped. And when I hung it back where it belonged it was in a
dry undisturbed place. Maybe if my car was a boat.

If you drive in the rain, it is. ;-) Seriously, I learned long ago
that it's not worth jury-rigging. Fix it right, or walk - at the
worst possible time.

Plese visit: https://lifehacker.com/top-10-home-i...kno-1656251243.

It will guide you to upgrade your knowledge for home improvement.