I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.

I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

Thanks for all replies.

Ivan Vegvary

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the listings you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit when using a plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it plugs on to. That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed from the buss while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the listed tie down kit and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building in which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:40:51 -0700, Tom Horne wrote:

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30
amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single
outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with
it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the listings
you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit when using a
plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it plugs on to.
That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed from the buss
while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the listed tie down kit
and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building in
which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of the
time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to be turned
ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that abusing a breaker
to use it as a switch is going to have some long term, unexpected
consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not kick OFF when you
want.

RobertMacy wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:40:51 -0700, Tom Horne
wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a
30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a
single outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with
it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the
listings you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit
when using a plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it
plugs on to. That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed
from the buss while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the
listed tie down kit and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building
in which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of
the time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to
be turned ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that
abusing a breaker to use it as a switch is going to have some long
term, unexpected consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not
kick OFF when you want.

I've seen plenty of businesses that use the breakers to turn things on/off at
the ends of the day.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of
the time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to
be turned ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that
abusing a breaker to use it as a switch is going to have some long
term, unexpected consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not
kick OFF when you want.

I've seen plenty of businesses that use the breakers to turn things on/off
at the ends of the day.

You will see lots of things done, but that does not make it correct.

There are some breakers that are also designed to be used as switches an can
be cycled off and on many times with out a problem.
http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-usin...reakers-switch

On 8/24/2013 11:13 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:45:15 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:40:51 -0700, Tom Horne wrote:

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30
amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single
outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with
it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the listings
you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit when using a
plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it plugs on to.
That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed from the buss
while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the listed tie down kit
and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building in
which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of the
time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to be turned
ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that abusing a breaker
to use it as a switch is going to have some long term, unexpected
consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not kick OFF when you
want.

Just be sure the breaker is marked SWD. Then it is listed for
Switching Duty.
Most small breakers are these days.

In my former church, the breakers were used to turn on and off the
lights in the church, built in 1984. They were not, iirc, rated for
switching duty. After a few years, many started getting hot to the
touch. They were replaced with SWD. And, in time, they started failing
the same way. There were 13 such switches each controlling 2 light
fixtures. I always wanted to put relays downstream to control the
lights. There were about 3 or 4 different lighting patterns used
depending on the building use, but it wouldn't be difficult to have
groups of relays doing the job. Never did it as I moved. In another
commercial building I specified SWD breakers to control TV studio lights
and the powers to be, put in a breaker box and a separate switch box
because, as they told me, breakers used as switches make for bad
breakers. This was in about 2001.

On 8/24/2013 9:47 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.

I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

Thanks for all replies.

Ivan Vegvary


That does meet code and is the proper way of doing a small sub panel.

--
Jeff

t
On 8/24/2013 10:45 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:40:51 -0700, Tom Horne wrote:

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a
30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single
outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with
it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the listings
you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit when realy using
a plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it plugs on to.
That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed from the buss
while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the listed tie down kit
and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building in
which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of the
time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to be
turned ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that abusing a
breaker to use it as a switch is going to have some long term,
unexpected consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not kick OFF
when you want.
Get real, in most commercial establishments, the breakers are the
switches.


--
Jeff

On 8/24/2013 10:23 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Bob wrote in message
...
Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of
the time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to
....


I've seen plenty of businesses that use the breakers to turn things on/off
at the ends of the day.

You will see lots of things done, but that does not make it correct.

There are some breakers that are also designed to be used as switches an can
be cycled off and on many times with out a problem.
http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-usin...reakers-switch

NB that that applies only to fluorescent or high-intensity lighting
circuits. I'd have to look up precisely the Code definition of
"lighting circuit" to have 100% confidence but I'm pretty sure it
doesn't include a general circuit that has one or two fluorescent
fixtures included but is fluorescent-only or almost only load on same.

--

On 8/24/2013 11:58 AM, Art Todesco wrote:
On 8/24/2013 11:13 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:45:15 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:40:51 -0700, Tom Horne wrote:

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30
amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single
outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with
it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the listings
you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit when
using a
plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it plugs on to.
That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed from the buss
while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the listed tie down kit
and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building in
which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of the
time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to be
turned
ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that abusing a breaker
to use it as a switch is going to have some long term, unexpected
consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not kick OFF when you
want.

Just be sure the breaker is marked SWD. Then it is listed for
Switching Duty.
Most small breakers are these days.

In my former church, the breakers were used to turn on and off the
lights in the church, built in 1984. They were not, iirc, rated for
switching duty. After a few years, many started getting hot to the
touch. They were replaced with SWD. And, in time, they started failing
the same way. There were 13 such switches each controlling 2 light
fixtures. I always wanted to put relays downstream to control the
lights. There were about 3 or 4 different lighting patterns used
depending on the building use, but it wouldn't be difficult to have
groups of relays doing the job. Never did it as I moved. In another
commercial building I specified SWD breakers to control TV studio lights
and the powers to be, put in a breaker box and a separate switch box
because, as they told me, breakers used as switches make for bad
breakers. This was in about 2001.

The breaker panel is/has been the switching panel in the church here
"since forever". It was replaced from the 1920's original in the
early-mid 60s and hasn't yet had a failure since. Some circuits are all
fluorescent, most aren't but nothing bad has happened in 50 yrs or so.

I've never tried to discover what the rating is; I'd suspect there being
some other issue w/ the gear in your aforementioned location.

--

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:45:15 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:




Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of the
time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to be turned
ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that abusing a breaker
to use it as a switch is going to have some long term, unexpected
consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not kick OFF when you
want.


The "main" he is using is not normally used as a switch but it gives
him the ability to kill the panel if needed. The one breaker he is
using as a light switch should be rated SWD. It is done every day in
thousands of commercial and industrial buildings.

Your simple thought process needs to go a complex step further to
understand this, I guess.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:47:29 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote in
Re circuit
breaker as an input device:

I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.

I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code?

Yes

Any hazards? Any down-side?

No

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:47:29 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:

I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.

I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

Yes, no, no.

This is perfectly normal (I do it all the time). Electricity doesn't
care about the direction it "flows" through the breaker.

Thanks for all replies.

Ivan Vegvary

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:59:32 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

RobertMacy wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:40:51 -0700, Tom Horne
wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a
30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a
single outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with
it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the
listings you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit
when using a plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it
plugs on to. That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed
from the buss while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the
listed tie down kit and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building
in which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of
the time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to
be turned ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that
abusing a breaker to use it as a switch is going to have some long
term, unexpected consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not
kick OFF when you want.

I've seen plenty of businesses that use the breakers to turn things on/off at
the ends of the day.

There are breakers that are rated for "switch" use. Residential
breakers are not.

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:47:29 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
wrote:

I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.

I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

Thanks for all replies.

Ivan Vegvary
It is REQUIRED by code in most places - disconnect within reach of
the door.

There's no reason why you can't use an extension cord instead. It must be
heavy duty of course.


Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org



Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a
30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single
outlet.

I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

Thanks for all replies.

Ivan Vegvary

On 8/24/2013 8:40 AM, Tom Horne wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.

I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

Thanks for all replies.


Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the listings you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit when using a plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it plugs on to. That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed from the buss while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the listed tie down kit and you are good to go.


Also is required by the NEC - 408.36-D.

Good to see you at least once in a while.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building in which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

On 8/24/2013 9:13 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:45:15 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 07:40:51 -0700, Tom wrote:

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:47:29 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30
amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by
simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two
additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single
outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

The code requires that all equipment be installed in accordance with
it's listing and marking. If you check that equipment in the listings
you will find that you are instructed to use a tie down kit when using a
plug on breaker as a main breaker for the buss that it plugs on to.
That is so that the breaker can not be readily removed from the buss
while it's buss clamps are energized. Install the listed tie down kit
and you are good to go.

Is the feeder to the greenhouse panel three wire or four?
Is your greenhouse a detached structure in relation to the building in
which the Service Equipment that supplies the feeder is located?
If detached when was it built?

Has anybody pointed out that breakers are designed to be ON most of the
time, and once in a while kick OFF? and Switches are designed to be turned
ON or OFF a lot? Simple thought process suggests that abusing a breaker
to use it as a switch is going to have some long term, unexpected
consequence. Like not turn ON when you want, or not kick OFF when you
want.

Just be sure the breaker is marked SWD. Then it is listed for
Switching Duty.
Most small breakers are these days.

From the UL "White" book:
"Circuit breakers marked 'SWD' and rated 347 V or less are suitable for
switching fluorescent lighting loads on a regular basis at their rated
voltage.

Circuit breakers marked 'HID' have been investigated for switching
high-intensity discharge lighting loads on a regular basis at their
rated voltage."


I don't believe using "SWD" breakers on ordinary loads that are switched
is required, but it is a real good idea, particularly when they are
readily available. The only breaker I looked at recently (SquareD 20A)
was marked both SWD and HID.

SWD and HID ratings are probably for the increased arcing from an
inductive load. It would be interesting if they are tested for more
on-off operations than an 'ordinary' breaker.

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 3:24:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:47:29 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary

wrote:



I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Yes, no, no.



This is perfectly normal (I do it all the time). Electricity doesn't

care about the direction it "flows" through the breaker.



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

To be completely precise it's not flowing either direction. It's vibrating back a forth a tiny bit.

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 13:59:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgang
wrote:

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 3:24:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:47:29 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary

wrote:



I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a 30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a single outlet.



I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet code? Any hazards? Any down-side?



Yes, no, no.



This is perfectly normal (I do it all the time). Electricity doesn't

care about the direction it "flows" through the breaker.



Thanks for all replies.



Ivan Vegvary

To be completely precise it's not flowing either direction. It's vibrating back a forth a tiny bit.

The energy is "flowing" one direction (there is a source and a sink)
but the breaker can't tell which end is which.

I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a
30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel
by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are
two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a
single outlet.
I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

If I remember correctly, code "requires" a breaker in the main panel to
feed the sub panel. Your 30 amp breaker protects the wiring that runs
from the main panel out to the sub panel in your green house. If you were
ever to cut the wire with a shovel or something, that breaker is what
would prevent the whole system from shorting out.

The 15 amp breakers in your green house protect the wiring for your
individual light and outlet circuits.

Your configuration is normal, and I have the exact same setup powering a
sub panel in my shed.

However, unlike the main panel, the neutral bus should be isolated from
the ground bus in the sub panel. You should also have an additional
ground rod installed out at the greenhouse to suppliment the ground at
the subpanel.

This is perfectly normal (I do it all the time). Electricity
doesn't care about the direction it "flows" through the breaker.
To be completely precise it's not flowing either direction. It's
vibrating back a forth a tiny bit.
The energy is "flowing" one direction

The US power grid uses "alternating current" (AC). The electrons flow
from positive to negative, then reverse to flow backward from negative to
positive (rising and falling in a sine wave). In the US the current
alternates back and forth like this 60 times a second (60 hz). So
technically, the electricity is flowing in both directions.

From a practical standpoint you have a supply (the power grid, generator,
etc.), and a load (lights, heaters, radios, computers, etc.). Without the
load, current isn't flowing either direction.

Anthony Watson
watsondiy.com
mountainsofware.com

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:48:36 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I have a sub-panel in my greenhouse that is fed by an incoming wire
from the main house panel. The incoming wire is directly feeding a
30 amp breaker, therefore I can disconnect the power to the panel
by simply tripping the breaker therein. (Also within the panel are
two additional 15 amp breakers, one for lights and the other for a
single outlet.
I've always liked the convenience of the "breaker input" instead of
hard wiring the input directly to the panel. Does this method meet
code? Any hazards? Any down-side?

If I remember correctly, code "requires" a breaker in the main panel to
feed the sub panel. Your 30 amp breaker protects the wiring that runs
from the main panel out to the sub panel in your green house. If you were
ever to cut the wire with a shovel or something, that breaker is what
would prevent the whole system from shorting out.

There are exceptions but that's certainly the way I'd do it. The
issue wasn't feeding the sub through a breaker in the main, though.
The issue was feeding the sub *backwards* through a breaker in the sub
(with a breaker also in the main). This normal.

The 15 amp breakers in your green house protect the wiring for your
individual light and outlet circuits.

Your configuration is normal, and I have the exact same setup powering a
sub panel in my shed.

However, unlike the main panel, the neutral bus should be isolated from
the ground bus in the sub panel. You should also have an additional
ground rod installed out at the greenhouse to suppliment the ground at
the subpanel.

This is perfectly normal (I do it all the time). Electricity
doesn't care about the direction it "flows" through the breaker.
To be completely precise it's not flowing either direction. It's
vibrating back a forth a tiny bit.
The energy is "flowing" one direction

The US power grid uses "alternating current" (AC). The electrons flow
from positive to negative, then reverse to flow backward from negative to
positive (rising and falling in a sine wave). In the US the current
alternates back and forth like this 60 times a second (60 hz). So
technically, the electricity is flowing in both directions.

True but irrelevant. There is a "source" and a "sink". The breaker
can't tell the difference, so it doesn't know it's being back-fed
(which is the subject under discussion).

From a practical standpoint you have a supply (the power grid, generator,
etc.), and a load (lights, heaters, radios, computers, etc.). Without the
load, current isn't flowing either direction.

Huh?

On Friday, August 30, 2013 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
The US power grid uses "alternating current" (AC). The electrons flow

from positive to negative, then reverse to flow backward from negative to

positive (rising and falling in a sine wave). In the US the current

alternates back and forth like this 60 times a second (60 hz). So

technically, the electricity is flowing in both directions.



True but irrelevant. There is a "source" and a "sink". The breaker

can't tell the difference, so it doesn't know it's being back-fed

(which is the subject under discussion).

Electrons move both directions, and slower than you think.

But saying electricity is flowing in both directions is misleading.

Uh, you know you can measure voltage drop along a long wire from source to sink, right?

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 06:28:18 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Friday, August 30, 2013 1:54:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
The US power grid uses "alternating current" (AC). The electrons flow

from positive to negative, then reverse to flow backward from negative to

positive (rising and falling in a sine wave). In the US the current

alternates back and forth like this 60 times a second (60 hz). So

technically, the electricity is flowing in both directions.



True but irrelevant. There is a "source" and a "sink". The breaker

can't tell the difference, so it doesn't know it's being back-fed

(which is the subject under discussion).

Electrons move both directions, and slower than you think.

You would be wrong but that seems to be the norm, here.

But saying electricity is flowing in both directions is misleading.

Uh, you know you can measure voltage drop along a long wire from source to sink, right?

The breaker cannot. It cannot tell where the source or load is. It
doesn't know where the power is coming from or where it's going.