All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and in the first floor walls to the height needed to supply water to faucets in kitchen and bathrooms in the first floor. This morning when in bathroom (first floor) water dripped on my head; I looked up and the ceiling around the air duct for heat and A/C was soaking wet as was the metal vent itself. The inside component of the heat pump is on the second floor in crawl space. The drain pipe for condensation from it is between first and second floor. Problem does not exist in any other ceiling vent area. What could be going on?

On Friday, August 9, 2013 2:45:49 AM UTC-7, Frank Thompson wrote:
All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and in the first floor walls to the height needed to supply water to faucets in kitchen and bathrooms in the first floor. This morning when in bathroom (first floor) water dripped on my head; I looked up and the ceiling around the air duct for heat and A/C was soaking wet as was the metal vent itself. The inside component of the heat pump is on the second floor in crawl space. The drain pipe for condensation from it is between first and second floor. Problem does not exist in any other ceiling vent area. What could be going on?

Is the surface area of the duct insulated to keep it from being in contact with warm air which would lead to formation of condensation?

On Friday, August 9, 2013 6:14:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 9, 2013 2:45:49 AM UTC-7, Frank Thompson wrote:

All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and in the

Is the surface area of the duct insulated to keep it from being in contact with warm air which would lead to formation of condensation?

Yes... further investigation (too early in morning to reach my hvac man) revealed
source of water is main unit itself. Pan under it for condensate is not filled with water (has small amt in it)& its drain pipe does not appear to be stopped up.
Significant water is on sheathing under unit & appears to be coming from unit from opposite side from access point where I cannot get to it.

On Friday, August 9, 2013 6:47:04 AM UTC-4, Frank Thompson wrote:
On Friday, August 9, 2013 6:14:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:

On Friday, August 9, 2013 2:45:49 AM UTC-7, Frank Thompson wrote:



All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and in the



Is the surface area of the duct insulated to keep it from being in contact with warm air which would lead to formation of condensation?



Yes... further investigation (too early in morning to reach my hvac man) revealed

source of water is main unit itself. Pan under it for condensate is not filled with water (has small amt in it)& its drain pipe does not appear to be stopped up.

How do you know the drain pipe is not stopped up? If it's working
normally, there should not be water in the pan. The water should
be flowing out of a pipe connected to the bottom of the evaporator.
If the pipe gets clogged, then the pan is supposed to catch the
overflow as a backup. Where does the pipe go? Did you verify that
water is flowing out of it?

As others have said, it could be either a blocked condensate drain
or it could be a condensation problem with warm humid air hitting
a cold part of the unit or ducts. If it's been OK for a long
time, that would suggest that it's a condensate drain problem.



Significant water is on sheathing under unit & appears to be coming from unit from opposite side from access point where I cannot get to it.

Funny how it usually works out that way. And I'm guessing that it
was installed so the condensate drain is on that inaccessible side.
Hopefully there is some way to get there.....

Frank Thompson wrote:
All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and in the first floor walls to the height needed to supply water to faucets in kitchen and bathrooms in the first floor. This morning when in bathroom (first floor) water dripped on my head; I looked up and the ceiling around the air duct for heat and A/C was soaking wet as was the metal vent itself. The inside component of the heat pump is on the second floor in crawl space. The drain pipe for condensation from it is between first and second floor. Problem does not exist in any other ceiling vent area. What could be going on?

Just a wild guess. I don't know where you live but around here, the
weather has been mild so the AC hasn't been running for days.
Perhaps a mud wasp has taken up residence in the drain pipe.
Pour some water in the pan and see if it drains.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On 8/9/2013 4:45 AM, Frank Thompson wrote:
All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and
in the first floor walls to the height needed to supply water to
faucets in kitchen and bathrooms in the first floor. This morning
when in bathroom (first floor) water dripped on my head; I looked up
and the ceiling around the air duct for heat and A/C was soaking wet
as was the metal vent itself. The inside component of the heat pump
is on the second floor in crawl space. The drain pipe for
condensation from it is between first and second floor. Problem does
not exist in any other ceiling vent area. What could be going on?



Is this something new? Yes? Then you have something that's recently broke.

Has it been raining? No? Then it's not a leaky roof that is migrating
to this location. Yes? Then you have two things to check out.

No rain? New problem? A/C running like crazy to keep up with summer
heat? The condensate drain line has somehow been compromised or perhaps
the pan which drains into it. Another possibility could be the
condensate line is plugged, causing the collection pan to overflow.

Remote possibility - your condensate pan may have a small pump to lift
the water from pan and into the condensate drain line. IF that pump
fails (and they do)...

Frank Thompson wrote:
On Friday, August 9, 2013 6:14:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 9, 2013 2:45:49 AM UTC-7, Frank Thompson wrote:

All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and
in the

Is the surface area of the duct insulated to keep it from being in
contact with warm air which would lead to formation of condensation?

Yes... further investigation (too early in morning to reach my hvac
man) revealed
source of water is main unit itself. Pan under it for condensate is
not filled with water (has small amt in it)& its drain pipe does not
appear to be stopped up. Significant water is on sheathing under unit
& appears to be coming from unit from opposite side from access point
where I cannot get to it.
Is this pan with water dripped into from the coil directly, or is it a pan
beneath the unit that water drips into through a drain tube or hole. If the
second choice, find the drip tube or hole, and clean it out by poking it through
it with a wire or something. Otherwise, the internal drip pan beneath the coil
could have a leak that could be caulked shut so the water gets through to the
proper drain.

On Friday, August 9, 2013 5:45:49 AM UTC-4, Frank Thompson wrote:
All water pipes in my two story house are under the first floor and in the first floor walls to the height needed to supply water to faucets in kitchen and bathrooms in the first floor. This morning when in bathroom (first floor) water dripped on my head; I looked up and the ceiling around the air duct for heat and A/C was soaking wet as was the metal vent itself. The inside component of the heat pump is on the second floor in crawl space. The drain pipe for condensation from it is between first and second floor. Problem does not exist in any other ceiling vent area. What could be going on?

Serves you right for hiring an illegal alien you capitalist piece of ****.

Justice will be served when every bag of **** that voted for Reagan or Bush is beaten to death with baseball bats.

How do you know the drain pipe is not stopped up? If it's working

normally, there should not be water in the pan. The water should

be flowing out of a pipe connected to the bottom of the evaporator.

If the pipe gets clogged, then the pan is supposed to catch the

overflow as a backup. Where does the pipe go?

downward through the sheathing all the way down to crawlspace & then outward to outside of house


Did you verify that

water is flowing out of it?

yes... but not as much as I think it should but

HVAC repairman verified that it is not stopped up

Has it been raining? No?

no

Then it's not a leaky roof that is migrating

to this location. Yes?

no leak in roof

Otherwise, the internal drip pan beneath the coil

could have a leak that could be caulked shut so the water gets through to the

proper drain.

My HVAC man says he suspects the internal drip pan may have a leak. He says that he has encountered that before. He has ordered a new one. Removal and replacement
will involved removing a segment of 4X4 stud which supports rafters and knee wall.

Personally my belief is that there is minor malalignment between the main external drip pan and the unit. Location of this malalignment is in a place on outboard side which may be inaccessible.

On Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:40:14 AM UTC-4, Frank Thompson wrote:
Otherwise, the internal drip pan beneath the coil



could have a leak that could be caulked shut so the water gets through to the



proper drain.



My HVAC man says he suspects the internal drip pan may have a leak. He says that he has encountered that before. He has ordered a new one. Removal and replacement

will involved removing a segment of 4X4 stud which supports rafters and knee wall.



Personally my belief is that there is minor malalignment between the main external drip pan and the unit. Location of this malalignment is in a place on outboard side which may be inaccessible.

Just to be sure you understand how this works:

The coils have a condensate pan that collects water and drains it outside.

There is also an additional external drip pan that should never catch water UNLESS the main condensate pan leaks or fills up and overflows.

I think you are seeing the secondary containment and thinking it is the main one. The main one is inside the air handler and you must open an access door to see it. The secondary one is usually clearly visible under the unit.

Again, if there is ANY water in the secondary pan, something is broken. Either the condensate pan is rusted through (it happens, but is unusual) or the condensate drain is stopped up (very common).

Thank you, Tim. Your explanation sure helps me understand. What you are calling the main one is made of plastic. My number one contender to the source of the problem is that the drain from it is clogged. HVAC person partially unclogged it on initial visit, but it is my belief that it is still partially clogged. HVAC person suspects leak in it but I suspect drain is clogged. Removal of pan is major task because section of rafter and knee wall supporting beam must be removed in order to replace it. The cover can be removed w/o removing section of beam. Is it possible to unclog the drain w/o removing pan. He has sent water up the drain from the exit of the drain outside the house and since then situation has improved, but it is still partially clogged IMHO because some condensate is still draining into the metal external pan (more into in it than the internal one).

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 6:19:15 AM UTC-4, Frank Thompson wrote:
Thank you, Tim. Your explanation sure helps me understand. What you are calling the main one is made of plastic. My number one contender to the source of the problem is that the drain from it is clogged. HVAC person partially unclogged it on initial visit, but it is my belief that it is still partially clogged. HVAC person suspects leak in it but I suspect drain is clogged. Removal of pan is major task because section of rafter and knee wall supporting beam must be removed in order to replace it. The cover can be removed w/o removing section of beam. Is it possible to unclog the drain w/o removing pan. He has sent water up the drain from the exit of the drain outside the house and since then situation has improved, but it is still partially clogged IMHO because some condensate is still draining into the metal external pan (more into in it than the internal one).

I think you mean there is more water draining out of the external pan
than the internal one, not into it. ALL the condensate goes into the
internal pan. If that pan is leaking or blocked, then some or all of it
goes into the external pan. Usually there is a backup drain on the
internal pan, at a slightly higher level, that can serve as a secondary
backup drain. Even if the pan has one, it might not be connected. If
it is connected, it's typically routed someplace where while the water
won't do damage, it may be observed so you know something is wrong.

It sounds like the one in question is installed in a really bad
way so that you can't get to critical areas. Sometimes there may
be no choice, do to logistics. But usually there is enough freedom,
eg the coil can be oriented two different ways, air handler oriented
differently, located in different spot, etc so that you don't wind up
with this kind of problem. But a lot of installers do what is fast,
cheap, etc without regard to future servicing issues.

Yes, it is often possible to unclog a drain. The
three approaches, are to either blow it out with
pressure, vacuum it out with a shop vac, or pour
chemicals or hot water through to loosen the
buildup.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/13/2013 6:19 AM, Frank Thompson wrote:
Thank you, Tim. Your explanation sure helps me
understand. What you are calling the main one is
made of plastic. My number one contender to the
source of the problem is that the drain from it
is clogged. HVAC person partially unclogged it
on initial visit, but it is my belief that it is
still partially clogged. HVAC person suspects
leak in it but I suspect drain is clogged. Removal
of pan is major task because section of rafter and
knee wall supporting beam must be removed in order
to replace it. The cover can be removed w/o removing
section of beam. Is it possible to unclog the drain
w/o removing pan. He has sent water up the drain from
the exit of the drain outside the house and since then
situation has improved, but it is still partially
clogged IMHO because some condensate is still draining
into the metal external pan (more into in it than the
internal one).

On 8/13/2013 6:19 AM, Frank Thompson wrote:
Thank you, Tim. Your explanation sure helps me understand. What you
are calling the main one is made of plastic. My number one contender
to the source of the problem is that the drain from it is clogged.
HVAC person partially unclogged it on initial visit, but it is my
belief that it is still partially clogged. HVAC person suspects leak
in it but I suspect drain is clogged. Removal of pan is major task
because section of rafter and knee wall supporting beam must be
removed in order to replace it. The cover can be removed w/o
removing section of beam. Is it possible to unclog the drain w/o
removing pan. He has sent water up the drain from the exit of the
drain outside the house and since then situation has improved, but it
is still partially clogged IMHO because some condensate is still
draining into the metal external pan (more into in it than the
internal one).


If water is still leaking from the internal pan into the external pan
after the internal pan's drain has been cleaned, and no one can detect a
crack or corrosion hole in the internal pan, it suggests that perhaps
some rafter may have settled (only has to be a degree or two of tilt) so
that cold condensate remains as a shallow puddle at the bottom of the
internal pan, sufficiently cooling the bottom (downward facing) surface
of the internal pan to cause water vapor in the hot, humid attic air to
condense on the bottom surface of the internal pan and fall into the
secondary pan. You could test that theory by placing a small amount of
water soluble food coloring dye into internal pan and noting whether the
water collecting in the external pan has that color. If the water is
colored, you have drainage/leakage from the internal pan. If the water
is clear, you are seeing atmospheric condensate in the external pan
because of puddling of cold condensate in the internal pan that is not
being drained off properly. So, if the water in the external pan is
clear, I would try to slightly angle the air handler (just a few
degrees) toward the drain, perhaps with a small shim to improve flow
towards the drain tube.

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:23:38 AM UTC-4, Peter wrote:
If water is still leaking from the internal pan into the external pan

after the internal pan's drain has been cleaned, and no one can detect a

crack or corrosion hole in the internal pan, it suggests that perhaps

some rafter may have settled (only has to be a degree or two of tilt) so

that cold condensate remains as a shallow puddle at the bottom of the

internal pan, sufficiently cooling the bottom (downward facing) surface

of the internal pan to cause water vapor in the hot, humid attic air to

condense on the bottom surface of the internal pan and fall into the

secondary pan. You could test that theory by placing a small amount of

water soluble food coloring dye into internal pan and noting whether the

water collecting in the external pan has that color. If the water is

colored, you have drainage/leakage from the internal pan. If the water

is clear, you are seeing atmospheric condensate in the external pan

because of puddling of cold condensate in the internal pan that is not

being drained off properly. So, if the water in the external pan is

clear, I would try to slightly angle the air handler (just a few

degrees) toward the drain, perhaps with a small shim to improve flow

towards the drain tube.

Brilliant idea, definitely worth trying.

The caveat I have is that the external pan really shouldn't drain into the house either. But it very well might.

On my system, there is a float switch that shuts off the air handler if the external pan fills. That alerts me to a clogged drain before the damage is too bad. In theory anyway, so far no clogs.

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:23:38 AM UTC-4, Peter wrote:
On 8/13/2013 6:19 AM, Frank Thompson wrote:

Thank you, Tim. Your explanation sure helps me understand. What you

are calling the main one is made of plastic. My number one contender

to the source of the problem is that the drain from it is clogged.

HVAC person partially unclogged it on initial visit, but it is my

belief that it is still partially clogged. HVAC person suspects leak

in it but I suspect drain is clogged. Removal of pan is major task

because section of rafter and knee wall supporting beam must be

removed in order to replace it. The cover can be removed w/o

removing section of beam. Is it possible to unclog the drain w/o

removing pan. He has sent water up the drain from the exit of the

drain outside the house and since then situation has improved, but it

is still partially clogged IMHO because some condensate is still

draining into the metal external pan (more into in it than the

internal one).





If water is still leaking from the internal pan into the external pan

after the internal pan's drain has been cleaned, and no one can detect a

crack or corrosion hole in the internal pan,

They can't detect it or investigate it because it appears to be virtually
inaccessible.




it suggests that perhaps

some rafter may have settled (only has to be a degree or two of tilt) so

that cold condensate remains as a shallow puddle at the bottom of the

internal pan, sufficiently cooling the bottom (downward facing) surface

of the internal pan to cause water vapor in the hot, humid attic air to

condense on the bottom surface of the internal pan and fall into the

secondary pan.

The condensate "pan" is normally part of a coil unit that is encased.
The thing is typically insulated. And it's basically inside the
plenum and right next to the coils. Whatever temp it is, it's going
to be with or without a little more or less condensate in the pan.

Now if something has settled so much that the unit is not flat or pitched
slightly toward the drain, then water could be overflowing, but that
would take a lot of pitch in the wrong direction.



You could test that theory by placing a small amount of

water soluble food coloring dye into internal pan and noting whether the

water collecting in the external pan has that color. If the water is

colored, you have drainage/leakage from the internal pan. If the water

is clear, you are seeing atmospheric condensate in the external pan

because of puddling of cold condensate in the internal pan that is not

being drained off properly.

The whole cased coil unit is cold on the inside. It's insulated, or should
be. If it's not insulated, then you can have condensation on the outside
regardless of whether there is 1/4" of extra water or not. The whole
inside is cold, a little more water here or there doesn't matter.

You should call the plumber and check why water is coming from the ceiling because it will be dangerous so you should to repair as soon as possible.Melbourne home builder