The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

On Jun 12, 6:38*am, micky wrote:
The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. *I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

You can never have too much firewood.
Keep it.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky
wrote in Re Good for
firewood?:

The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Yes, "green" wood generally cuts easier than seasoned (dry) wood.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Let it dry out for a year, preferably someplace protected from rain,
but that isn't absolutely necessary.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

Don't stack it in a stream bed. Stack it someplace with good drainage
and the least exposure to wetness. The dryer the better, but just
stacked out in the open where it can dry out after getting rained on
will work. If you can cover it with a tarp after it's stacked it will
dry better.

On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:38:48 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.



I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over

because it was dead.



But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.



Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be

good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.



If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what

should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't

babysit it for a year.

What kind of fruit is it? Fruitwood is good for barbeque; I've been cooking over wood from an apple tree I cut down a couple years ago.

micky,

Fruit trees are hardwoods and make good firewood after drying. Takes
about a 9 mon. where I live.
Green fruitwood is great for smoking on the BBQ.

Dave M.

On 6/12/2013 12:38 AM, micky wrote:
The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

If, indeed, it was a cottonwood (see other note on identifying it for
certain), the wood itself is virtually worthless for anything, including
firewood.

If you're lucky somebody will be willing to haul it off...

--

"micky" wrote in message
...
The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

Live trees are fine for firewood. It does take a while for it to dry enough
to use. The shorter pieces you cut it in , the shorter will be the drying
time as the wood dries mostly from the ends. You should be able to burn it
in Jan or Feb and get some heat out of it if you cut it about 18 inches
long. You can burn it sooner if you want,but it will not put off as much
heat as you are still boiling off muchof the moisture in the wood.

If cutting down live trees, try to wait for all the leaves to fall off as
the sap will run toward the roots and it will not be as wet and will not
take as long to dry.

Even trees that are just cut down will burn, but you don't get as much heat
and maybe more smoke.

On Jun 12, 6:05*am, dpb wrote:
On 6/12/2013 12:38 AM, micky wrote:

The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. *I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

If, indeed, it was a cottonwood (see other note on identifying it for
certain), the wood itself is virtually worthless for anything, including
firewood.

If you're lucky somebody will be willing to haul it off...

--

Worthless for anything? There are a lot of people living out in the
middle and west side of the country that will disagree. Value of any
wood depends on where it it is. Were I in the Eastern US I wouildn't
touch cottonwood as far better wood is available. May come as news to
you but world in the Northern Hemisphere there is far more softwood
than hardwood burned as hardwoods are not available.

FWIW that you apparently don't know. ALL wood contains approximately
the same BTU per pound. Thus a pound of balsa will put out just as
much heat as a pound of oak.

Harry K

PS: You don't need to know this:

The reason why live wood is easier to cut than dry wood is because wood cells store H2O in two ways:
1. Inside the hollow cells there's a liquid which is mostly water, and
2. Inside the wood cell walls, gazillions of individual H2O molecules are weakly chemically bound to the layers of cellulose that make up the cell wall's thickness by hydrogen bonding. This is not liquid water but chemically bound up H2O molecules the same as you have in the gypsum core of drywall.

When wood dries, the liquid water inside the hollow cells is the first to evaporate, and that water evaporates (and is absorbed) 15 times faster at the wood end grain than across the wood grain. So, the fastest way to air dry a tree trunk is to cut it into thin disks.

After the liquid water evaporates, the chemically bound up H2O molecules in the wood cell walls are lost to the surrounding air. As that happens, the cell walls become thinner and stiffer, exactly the same way that a cellulose sponge gets thinner and stiffer as it dries out.

The thinning and stiffening of the wood cell walls makes dried wood harder and stronger than wet wood, but that harder and stronger wood is also harder to cut.

It's all the water in the live wood that makes it lousy for burning. Much (if not most) of the heat produced by burning the cellulose of the wood goes into boiling off (or otherwise driving out) the water from the wood.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky wrote:

Before I throw the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might
be good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Depends on the tree, and the locale, but my foot-thick oak wouldn't
burn in a campfire within a month of cutting; but, a year later, it
burned like it was nuclear power.

Here in the Silicon Valley, it's dry weather, so your locale may
also make a difference.

There's (probably) nothing wrong with throwing it in a stream bed,
(although here in California, you'd probably need a permit); but,
I question why a stream bed? Why not just pile it alongside?

Or, is the point for the wood to float downstream, off your
property?

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:05:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

the wood itself is virtually worthless for anything, including
firewood.

I bring wood for a lot of group campouts, and I've never seen
any wood that was "virtually worthless" for firewood.

Sure, some burns fast, others might burn smoky, but if the
mass is there, they've all burned well enough for us.

Disclaimer: Most of our camping is at the beach, so, there is
usually consistent and strong wind to blow smoke away from us.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:35:06 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

If cutting down live trees, try to wait for all the leaves to fall off as
the sap will run toward the roots and it will not be as wet and will not
take as long to dry.

I don't understand this?

If I just cut, say, an 18" chunk of the tree, and I'm holding it in my hands,
how is the sap going to matter in terms of drying time?

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:28:17 +0200, nestork wrote:

The thinning and stiffening of the wood cell walls makes dried wood
harder and stronger than wet wood, but that harder and stronger wood is
also harder to cut.

So that's why the wood chippers told me my (old dry) brush was
exceptionally hard when they cut it!

On 6/12/2013 9:52 AM, Harry K wrote:
....

Worthless for anything? There are a lot of people living out in the
middle and west side of the country that will disagree. Value of any
wood depends on where it it is. Were I in the Eastern US I wouildn't
touch cottonwood as far better wood is available. May come as news to
you but world in the Northern Hemisphere there is far more softwood
than hardwood burned as hardwoods are not available.

FWIW that you apparently don't know. ALL wood contains approximately
the same BTU per pound. Thus a pound of balsa will put out just as
much heat as a pound of oak.

I know quite a lot about cottonwood and wood scarcity, actually, living
on the High Plains where the cottonwood is about the only thing there
was (and precious few of them before turn of 20th century).

They were used some, yes, and there were even attempts early on to
actually turn them into commercial lumber but all were _very_ shortlived.

That it does have a similar Btu content doesn't mean that it burns at
all well and is much suited for firewood, either. It is similar to some
of the other common trees in the area such as Siberian elm in that it
produces a very high quantity of ash when burned.

From US Forest Products Laboratory...

Eastern cottonwood is moderately weak in bending and in compression,
moderately soft, and relatively low in ability to resist shock. Black
cotton wood rates below eastern cottonwood in strength properties.
Neither species is durable under conditions favorable to decay.
Cottonwood lumber is prone to warping, but shrinkage is moderate.

I'll concede it is used some in small items such as containers and such
where the white color lets it be stenciled easily and it does make a
good pulp wood for paper for much the same reasons. How much is
actually commercially consumed viz a viz other species I didn't look up
but I suspect it's a pretty small fraction.

The tree itself (other than the nuisance cotton-shedding) is quite a
nice shade tree and being akin to the aspens, the leaf rustling sounds
are very pleasant in moderate to low breezes. Unfortunately, here in SW
KS the days of only "moderate" wind aren't necessarily all that common
altho today is pretty good, last to have been steady 30-40 mph gusting
to 45+. Tomorrow is projected another at 30 or so ahead of the next front.

--

On 6/12/2013 12:16 PM, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:05:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

the wood itself is virtually worthless for anything, including
firewood.

I bring wood for a lot of group campouts, and I've never seen
any wood that was "virtually worthless" for firewood.
....

Presumed OP wasn't talking for campfire use...sure it'll burn (sorta')
but in fireplace or stove you definitely won't like

a) the burn time,
b) the difficulty of starting/keeping fire going, and
c) the amount of ash to have to carry out.

All in all, if there's any thing else to choose from, you can almost be
guaranteed it'll serve better than cottonwood. But yes, in really,
really deprived wood locales folks will make do w/ what they have and
some does get used here for the purpose. All in all as noted above,
given the choice I take the trimmings of the Siberian elms for the use
here over the cottonwood even and generally put the cottonwood trimmings
in the burn pit rather than cutting it up.

--

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:42:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

Presumed OP wasn't talking for campfire use...sure it'll burn (sorta')
but in fireplace or stove you definitely won't like

Good point!

I have a fireplace, but it doesn't burn wood so I was
only thinking campfire.

Did the OP specify the purpose of the burning?

If it's inside the home, I can easily see that
smoke might make a huge difference!

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:00:18 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky
wrote in Re Good for
firewood?:

The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Yes, "green" wood generally cuts easier than seasoned (dry) wood.

I had no idea! It was worth asking for this fact alone.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed,

I'm sorry. I should have said, "If I don't want it, before I throw it
in the stream bed to get rid of it...." It was clear to me, but I see
that it's totally unclear to a reader.

does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Let it dry out for a year, preferably someplace protected from rain,
but that isn't absolutely necessary.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed,

This didn't help. I meant if there is some environmental reason I
shouldn't throw it in the stream bed.

dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

Don't stack it in a stream bed. Stack it someplace with good drainage
and the least exposure to wetness. The dryer the better, but just
stacked out in the open where it can dry out after getting rained on
will work. If you can cover it with a tarp after it's stacked it will
dry better.

I would but I have a 6' x 4' stack already and I'm not using much of
it.

Thanks.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 04:11:15 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:38:48 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.



I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over

because it was dead.



But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.



Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be

good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.



If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what

should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't

babysit it for a year.

What kind of fruit is it? Fruitwood is good for barbeque; I've been cooking over wood from an apple tree I cut down a couple years ago.

It turns out it is a cottonwood. I put "fruit" in quotes because it
is not edible. I don't know if that makes a difference.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:42:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/12/2013 12:16 PM, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:05:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

the wood itself is virtually worthless for anything, including
firewood.

I bring wood for a lot of group campouts, and I've never seen
any wood that was "virtually worthless" for firewood.
...

Presumed OP wasn't talking for campfire use...sure it'll burn (sorta')
but in fireplace or stove you definitely won't like

True, it would have been the fireplace, in the basement.

a) the burn time,
b) the difficulty of starting/keeping fire going, and
c) the amount of ash to have to carry out.

All in all, if there's any thing else to choose from, you can almost be
guaranteed it'll serve better than cottonwood. But yes, in really,
really deprived wood locales folks will make do w/ what they have and
some does get used here for the purpose. All in all as noted above,
given the choice I take the trimmings of the Siberian elms for the use
here over the cottonwood even and generally put the cottonwood trimmings
in the burn pit rather than cutting it up.

I have the previous tree that fell near my house, which I cut up and
saved (been about a year now) plus there is another tree that fell the
other direction, into the stream bed. Were I short of wood, I would
have cut that one up. (not cottonwood, but I forget what it was)

Plus all the old rails and pickets from my fence (none that are
treated)

Plus, the fireplace looked good to entertain girls, but since I don't
do that anymore, it's less important. Still I enjoyed watching it
myself, but I can't sit at my workbench and have a good view of the
fire, and the pile of projects not yet finished has spread across the
floor to where it is too close to the fireplace, so the fire need
closer attention than it did.

Living near the stream is charming, insteresting, and nice in several
ways, but the combination of being in a valley, even a little one (40
feet deep?) and having tall trees on two sides of me, means I think
the breeze I get is nowhere near as much as people a couple blocks
away get. I guess that's one reason in cowboy movies, or Kansas,
people build their houses on the top of the hill.

(I now have a big table fan at the foot of my bed, and a 4" fan on the
window sill above my head, so the lack of a breeze in the bedroom
won't be such a problem this summer. .

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:19:01 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:35:06 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

If cutting down live trees, try to wait for all the leaves to fall off as
the sap will run toward the roots and it will not be as wet and will not
take as long to dry.

I don't understand this?

If I just cut, say, an 18" chunk of the tree, and I'm holding it in my hands,
how is the sap going to matter in terms of drying time?

He means that while the tree is standing, the sap will run toward the
roots. I don't know that myself, but Ralph has never lied to me
before. Maybe it relates to maple sap running in the fall (after the
leaves are off?)

Maybe it relates to this: After I cut the part of the trunk resting
on my woody bushes, it didn't fall anymore.

So I cut the main trunk near the edge of my yard. I didn't cut all
the way through because I couldn't decide which way the cut-off part
would go when it was free**. I left some uncut and then used a rope
to pull on the trunk, When after cutting more the third time, I got
it to break, at the uncut part, it ripped off about 6 feet of bark.

Under the bark, was an almost blemish free white layer that was
positively wet. When I toucheed it my fingers got wet. The liquid
was clear, but that was the sap, wasn't it?

I should have looked for xylem and phloem. The bark is still lthere
but tomorrow will be two days of drying.



**It went straight down, but because of the way it was resting, I
could see it sliding off the bushes towards me and putting a 1 or 2
inch dent in my chest, or knocking me off the ladder onto the picket
fence.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 04:11:15 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:38:48 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.



I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over

because it was dead.



But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.



Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be

good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.



If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what

should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't

babysit it for a year.

What kind of fruit is it? Fruitwood is good for barbeque; I've been cooking over wood from an apple tree I cut down a couple years ago.
It sure sounds like cottonwood to me. Very soft wood. Similar to
basswood. Might be good for a woodcarver. Not terrific firewood -
burns easiy but not a lot of heat - more smoke than, say, maple or
oak.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:36:56 -0400, "David L. Martel"
wrote:

micky,

Fruit trees are hardwoods and make good firewood after drying. Takes
about a 9 mon. where I live.
Green fruitwood is great for smoking on the BBQ.

Dave M.

But this is a COTTONWOOD tree - not a pear tree or apple tree. I
wouldn't smoke food with it - but it WILL smoke when burned.

On Jun 12, 10:21*am, dpb wrote:
On 6/12/2013 9:52 AM, Harry K wrote:
...

Worthless for anything? *There are a lot of people living out in the
middle and west side of the country that will disagree. *Value of any
wood depends on where it it is. *Were I in the Eastern US I wouildn't
touch cottonwood as far better wood is available. *May come as news to
you but world in the Northern Hemisphere there is far more softwood
than hardwood burned as hardwoods are not available.

FWIW that you apparently don't know. *ALL wood contains approximately
the same BTU per pound. *Thus a pound of balsa will put out just as
much heat as a pound of oak.

I know quite a lot about cottonwood and wood scarcity, actually, living
on the High Plains where the cottonwood is about the only thing there
was (and precious few of them before turn of 20th century).

They were used some, yes, and there were even attempts early on to
actually turn them into commercial lumber but all were _very_ shortlived.

That it does have a similar Btu content doesn't mean that it burns at
all well and is much suited for firewood, either. *It is similar to some
of the other common trees in the area such as Siberian elm in that it
produces a very high quantity of ash when burned.

*From US Forest Products Laboratory...

Eastern cottonwood is moderately weak in bending and in compression,
moderately soft, and relatively low in ability to resist shock. Black
cotton wood rates below eastern cottonwood in strength properties.
Neither species is durable under conditions favorable to decay.
Cottonwood lumber is prone to warping, but shrinkage is moderate.

I'll concede it is used some in small items such as containers and such
where the white color lets it be stenciled easily and it does make a
good pulp wood for paper for much the same reasons. *How much is
actually commercially consumed viz a viz other species I didn't look up
but I suspect it's a pretty small fraction.

The tree itself (other than the nuisance cotton-shedding) is quite a
nice shade tree and being akin to the aspens, the leaf rustling sounds
are very pleasant in moderate to low breezes. *Unfortunately, here in SW
KS the days of only "moderate" wind aren't necessarily all that common
altho today is pretty good, last to have been steady 30-40 mph gusting
to 45+. *Tomorrow is projected another at 30 or so ahead of the next front.

--

Your original comment was that it was worthless for _firewood_. The
only thing you medntioned about that was it produces a lot of ash.

There is a lot of cottonwood used for firewood where other species
aren't available.

Comes down to a cord of cottonwood in the stacks is way more valuable
than a cord of oak you don't have.

Harry K

On Jun 12, 11:01*am, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:42:45 -0500, dpb wrote:
Presumed OP wasn't talking for campfire use...sure it'll burn (sorta')
but in fireplace or stove you definitely won't like

Good point!

I have a fireplace, but it doesn't burn wood so I was
only thinking campfire.

Did the OP specify the purpose of the burning?

If it's inside the home, I can easily see that
smoke might make a huge difference!

Why? If you can smell smoke inside the house there is something
seriously wrong with the installation or chimney.

Harry K

On Jun 12, 10:42*am, dpb wrote:
On 6/12/2013 12:16 PM, Danny D wrote: On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:05:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

* the wood itself is virtually worthless for anything, including
firewood.

I bring wood for a lot of group campouts, and I've never seen
any wood that was "virtually worthless" for firewood.

...

Presumed OP wasn't talking for campfire use...sure it'll burn (sorta')
but in fireplace or stove you definitely won't like

a) the burn time,
b) the difficulty of starting/keeping fire going, and
c) the amount of ash to have to carry out.

All in all, if there's any thing else to choose from, you can almost be
guaranteed it'll serve better than cottonwood. *But yes, in really,
really deprived wood locales folks will make do w/ what they have and
some does get used here for the purpose. *All in all as noted above,
given the choice I take the trimmings of the Siberian elms for the use
here over the cottonwood even and generally put the cottonwood trimmings
in the burn pit rather than cutting it up.

--

What is your opinion on Willow as firewood? It is the only species
readily available here in the Palouse (Washington State). Haven't
looked recently but IIANM it ranks right with Cottonwood at near the
bottom of the charts. I heated my house almost 100% with Willow for
over 30 years because anything else required a 100 mile roundtrip (or
more) for Fir or Tamarack. Willow won the "cost per btu" hands down
as I could get all I wanted withing a few miles of the house. Used
6-7 cord/yr. Last winter was my first using Black Locust (right at
the top of the charts). The locust borere moved in around 20 years
ago and I have been cutting it for the past 6 years. burned the last
of the willow the prior season.

Yes, the use of the "poor quality" wood require feeding the stove more
often and thus the usual complain "it leaves a lot of ash. Oddly,
burn more wood for the same heat will result in "more ash". Not a
surprise.

Harry K

On Jun 12, 12:35*pm, micky wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:00:18 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky
wrote in Re Good for
firewood?:

The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Yes, *"green" wood generally cuts easier than seasoned (dry) wood.

I had no idea! *It was worth asking for this fact alone.



Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed,

I'm sorry. *I should have said, "If I don't want it, before I throw it
in the stream bed to get rid of it...." *It was clear to me, but I see
that it's totally unclear to a reader.

does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Let it dry out for a year, preferably someplace protected from rain,
but that isn't absolutely necessary.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed,

This didn't help. *I meant if there is some environmental reason I
shouldn't throw it in the stream bed.

dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. *I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

Don't stack it in a stream bed. *Stack it someplace with good drainage
and the least exposure to wetness. *The dryer the better, but just
stacked out in the open where it can dry out after getting rained on
will work. *If you can cover it with a tarp after it's stacked it will
dry better.

I would but I have a 6' x 4' stack already and I'm not using much of
it.

Thanks.

Just a comment on "throw it in the stream" Don't do it. It will only
stay there and not rot as long as it remains covered with water.

Harry K

I don't know if a tree's sap flows into the roots during winter, but I do know that even though a deciduous tree looks completely dormant in winter, it's actually still active. During the winter a tree's roots will be busy collecting and storing up nutrients to supply the energy the tree needs for a burst of growth in the spring. Ask yourself where a tree with no leaves to produce sugar through photosynthesis gets the energy it needs to come to life and grow leaves in the spring. (The answer is the nutrients it's stored up all winter long in it's roots.)

In the spring, a tree not only produces all of it's leaves within a few weeks, but it also grows a new set of wood cells under it's bark (called "early wood"). The lighter early wood combined with the darker "late wood" grown in the remainder of the summer and fall is what gives rise to visible "tree rings" in a tree's trunk by which you can tell a tree's age. So, a tree "grows" the most in the spring, and it uses the energy it's collected and stored in it's roots all winter to fuel that growth in the spring.

On 6/12/2013 10:58 PM, Harry K wrote:
On Jun 12, 10:21 am, wrote:
On 6/12/2013 9:52 AM, Harry K wrote:
...

Worthless for anything? There are a lot of people living out in the
middle and west side of the country that will disagree. Value of any
wood depends on where it it is. Were I in the Eastern US I wouildn't
touch cottonwood as far better wood is available. May come as news to
you but world in the Northern Hemisphere there is far more softwood
than hardwood burned as hardwoods are not available.

FWIW that you apparently don't know. ALL wood contains approximately
the same BTU per pound. Thus a pound of balsa will put out just as
much heat as a pound of oak.

I know quite a lot about cottonwood and wood scarcity, actually, living
on the High Plains where the cottonwood is about the only thing there
was (and precious few of them before turn of 20th century).

They were used some, yes, and there were even attempts early on to
actually turn them into commercial lumber but all were _very_ shortlived.

That it does have a similar Btu content doesn't mean that it burns at
all well and is much suited for firewood, either. It is similar to some
of the other common trees in the area such as Siberian elm in that it
produces a very high quantity of ash when burned.

From US Forest Products Laboratory...

Eastern cottonwood is moderately weak in bending and in compression,
moderately soft, and relatively low in ability to resist shock. Black
cotton wood rates below eastern cottonwood in strength properties.
Neither species is durable under conditions favorable to decay.
Cottonwood lumber is prone to warping, but shrinkage is moderate.

I'll concede it is used some in small items such as containers and such
where the white color lets it be stenciled easily and it does make a
good pulp wood for paper for much the same reasons. How much is
actually commercially consumed viz a viz other species I didn't look up
but I suspect it's a pretty small fraction.

The tree itself (other than the nuisance cotton-shedding) is quite a
nice shade tree and being akin to the aspens, the leaf rustling sounds
are very pleasant in moderate to low breezes. Unfortunately, here in SW
KS the days of only "moderate" wind aren't necessarily all that common
altho today is pretty good, last to have been steady 30-40 mph gusting
to 45+. Tomorrow is projected another at 30 or so ahead of the next front.

--

Your original comment was that it was worthless for _firewood_. The
only thing you medntioned about that was it produces a lot of ash.
....

It's still pretty much worthless; only that if there's nothing else then
one may have to make do...

And I also mentioned it doesn't burn worth a crap for fire, too...too
fast if dry and not easy to keep going if wet.

All in all, as a wood except for pulpwood and some other very limited
uses it's just not much of anything to brag about.

It's much better as a tree.

--

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 21:12:28 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Jun 12, 12:35*pm, micky wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:00:18 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky
wrote in Re Good for
firewood?:

The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Yes, *"green" wood generally cuts easier than seasoned (dry) wood.

I had no idea! *It was worth asking for this fact alone.



Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed,

I'm sorry. *I should have said, "If I don't want it, before I throw it
in the stream bed to get rid of it...." *It was clear to me, but I see
that it's totally unclear to a reader.

does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Let it dry out for a year, preferably someplace protected from rain,
but that isn't absolutely necessary.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed,

This didn't help. *I meant if there is some environmental reason I
shouldn't throw it in the stream bed.

dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. *I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

Don't stack it in a stream bed. *Stack it someplace with good drainage
and the least exposure to wetness. *The dryer the better, but just
stacked out in the open where it can dry out after getting rained on
will work. *If you can cover it with a tarp after it's stacked it will
dry better.

I would but I have a 6' x 4' stack already and I'm not using much of
it.

Thanks.

Just a comment on "throw it in the stream" Don't do it. It will only
stay there and not rot as long as it remains covered with water.

That's what I meant by stream *bed*. It only floods for about 10 or
20 hours a year, spread out over about 4 incidents a year. The rest
of the time it's the ground may be damp but there's no standing water
in that part of the bed. The normal stream has running water all the
time, but this is the flood stage bed.

The property management woman was going to call the company that mows
the lawn. I guess they would take the wood away, but would they find
a better use for it?

Maybe the pieces of the trunk but what about the limbs that are 4
inches thick or less?

It seems like a lot of work for them for very little benefit to
society. Plus they bill the HOA.

Harry K

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:55:23 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/12/2013 10:58 PM, Harry K wrote:
On Jun 12, 10:21 am, wrote:
On 6/12/2013 9:52 AM, Harry K wrote:
...

Worthless for anything? There are a lot of people living out in the
middle and west side of the country that will disagree. Value of any
wood depends on where it it is. Were I in the Eastern US I wouildn't
touch cottonwood as far better wood is available. May come as news to
you but world in the Northern Hemisphere there is far more softwood
than hardwood burned as hardwoods are not available.

FWIW that you apparently don't know. ALL wood contains approximately
the same BTU per pound. Thus a pound of balsa will put out just as
much heat as a pound of oak.

I know quite a lot about cottonwood and wood scarcity, actually, living
on the High Plains where the cottonwood is about the only thing there
was (and precious few of them before turn of 20th century).

They were used some, yes, and there were even attempts early on to
actually turn them into commercial lumber but all were _very_ shortlived.

That it does have a similar Btu content doesn't mean that it burns at
all well and is much suited for firewood, either. It is similar to some
of the other common trees in the area such as Siberian elm in that it
produces a very high quantity of ash when burned.

From US Forest Products Laboratory...

Eastern cottonwood is moderately weak in bending and in compression,
moderately soft, and relatively low in ability to resist shock. Black
cotton wood rates below eastern cottonwood in strength properties.
Neither species is durable under conditions favorable to decay.
Cottonwood lumber is prone to warping, but shrinkage is moderate.

I'll concede it is used some in small items such as containers and such
where the white color lets it be stenciled easily and it does make a
good pulp wood for paper for much the same reasons. How much is
actually commercially consumed viz a viz other species I didn't look up
but I suspect it's a pretty small fraction.

The tree itself (other than the nuisance cotton-shedding) is quite a
nice shade tree and being akin to the aspens, the leaf rustling sounds
are very pleasant in moderate to low breezes. Unfortunately, here in SW
KS the days of only "moderate" wind aren't necessarily all that common
altho today is pretty good, last to have been steady 30-40 mph gusting
to 45+. Tomorrow is projected another at 30 or so ahead of the next front.

--

Your original comment was that it was worthless for _firewood_. The
only thing you medntioned about that was it produces a lot of ash.
...

It's still pretty much worthless; only that if there's nothing else then
one may have to make do...

And I also mentioned it doesn't burn worth a crap for fire, too...too
fast if dry and not easy to keep going if wet.

All in all, as a wood except for pulpwood and some other very limited
uses it's just not much of anything to brag about.

It's much better as a tree.

Maybe I can put it back together again.

All my muscles are sore and I was too tired to do any work on
Wednesday, but my back has not hurt since Tuesday, the day I cut it
up. . It's been hurting for 3 months if I walk more than 10
minutes.

On Jun 13, 2:46*am, micky wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 21:12:28 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:









On Jun 12, 12:35*pm, micky wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:00:18 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky
wrote in Re Good for
firewood?:

The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Yes, *"green" wood generally cuts easier than seasoned (dry) wood.

I had no idea! *It was worth asking for this fact alone.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed,

I'm sorry. *I should have said, "If I don't want it, before I throw it
in the stream bed to get rid of it...." *It was clear to me, but I see
that it's totally unclear to a reader.

does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Let it dry out for a year, preferably someplace protected from rain,
but that isn't absolutely necessary.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed,

This didn't help. *I meant if there is some environmental reason I
shouldn't throw it in the stream bed.

dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. *I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

Don't stack it in a stream bed. *Stack it someplace with good drainage
and the least exposure to wetness. *The dryer the better, but just
stacked out in the open where it can dry out after getting rained on
will work. *If you can cover it with a tarp after it's stacked it will
dry better.

I would but I have a 6' x 4' stack already and I'm not using much of
it.

Thanks.

Just a comment on "throw it in the stream" *Don't do it. *It will only
stay there and not rot as long as it remains covered with water.

That's what I meant by stream *bed*. * *It only floods for about 10 or
20 hours a year, spread out over about 4 incidents a year. * The rest
of the time it's the ground may be damp but there's no standing water
in that part of the bed. *The normal stream has running water all the
time, but this is the flood stage bed.

The property management woman was going to call the company that mows
the lawn. *I guess they would take the wood away, but would they find
a better use for it?

Maybe the pieces of the trunk but what about the limbs that are 4
inches thick or less?

It seems like a lot of work for them for very little benefit to
society. * Plus they bill the HOA.







Harry K

I'm curious. Just what do you think you would accomplish by tossing
it in the stream bed?

Harry K

On Jun 12, 9:55*pm, dpb wrote:
On 6/12/2013 10:58 PM, Harry K wrote:







On Jun 12, 10:21 am, *wrote:
On 6/12/2013 9:52 AM, Harry K wrote:
...

Worthless for anything? *There are a lot of people living out in the
middle and west side of the country that will disagree. *Value of any
wood depends on where it it is. *Were I in the Eastern US I wouildn't
touch cottonwood as far better wood is available. *May come as news to
you but world in the Northern Hemisphere there is far more softwood
than hardwood burned as hardwoods are not available.

FWIW that you apparently don't know. *ALL wood contains approximately
the same BTU per pound. *Thus a pound of balsa will put out just as
much heat as a pound of oak.

I know quite a lot about cottonwood and wood scarcity, actually, living
on the High Plains where the cottonwood is about the only thing there
was (and precious few of them before turn of 20th century).

They were used some, yes, and there were even attempts early on to
actually turn them into commercial lumber but all were _very_ shortlived.

That it does have a similar Btu content doesn't mean that it burns at
all well and is much suited for firewood, either. *It is similar to some
of the other common trees in the area such as Siberian elm in that it
produces a very high quantity of ash when burned.

* From US Forest Products Laboratory...

Eastern cottonwood is moderately weak in bending and in compression,
moderately soft, and relatively low in ability to resist shock. Black
cotton wood rates below eastern cottonwood in strength properties.
Neither species is durable under conditions favorable to decay.
Cottonwood lumber is prone to warping, but shrinkage is moderate.

I'll concede it is used some in small items such as containers and such
where the white color lets it be stenciled easily and it does make a
good pulp wood for paper for much the same reasons. *How much is
actually commercially consumed viz a viz other species I didn't look up
but I suspect it's a pretty small fraction.

The tree itself (other than the nuisance cotton-shedding) is quite a
nice shade tree and being akin to the aspens, the leaf rustling sounds
are very pleasant in moderate to low breezes. *Unfortunately, here in SW
KS the days of only "moderate" wind aren't necessarily all that common
altho today is pretty good, last to have been steady 30-40 mph gusting
to 45+. *Tomorrow is projected another at 30 or so ahead of the next front.

--

Your original comment was that it was worthless for _firewood_. *The
only thing you medntioned about that *was it produces a lot of ash.

...

It's still pretty much worthless; only that if there's nothing else then
one may have to make do...

And I also mentioned it doesn't burn worth a crap for fire, too...too
fast if dry and not easy to keep going if wet.

All in all, as a wood except for pulpwood and some other very limited
uses it's just not much of anything to brag about.

It's much better as a tree.

--

I see. So your complaint about it burning "poorly" comes down to not
knowing how to regulate a fire.

Bottom line: You are the common variety uninformed "wood snob". I
wonder just how much wood you personally have actually burned in a
stove.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
What is your opinion on Willow as firewood? It is the only species
readily available here in the Palouse (Washington State). Haven't
looked recently but IIANM it ranks right with Cottonwood at near the
bottom of the charts. I heated my house almost 100% with Willow for
over 30 years because anything else required a 100 mile roundtrip (or
more) for Fir or Tamarack. Willow won the "cost per btu" hands down
as I could get all I wanted withing a few miles of the house. Used
6-7 cord/yr. Last winter was my first using Black Locust (right at
the top of the charts). The locust borere moved in around 20 years
ago and I have been cutting it for the past 6 years. burned the last
of the willow the prior season.

Yes, the use of the "poor quality" wood require feeding the stove more
often and thus the usual complain "it leaves a lot of ash. Oddly,
burn more wood for the same heat will result in "more ash". Not a
surprise.

Harry K

I think you have it nailed. While some wood is beter than other, if you do
not mind the work and the cost is much less, any wood is fine to burn.
Maybe with the exception of pine.

I have burnt a lot of poplar wood because the trees were on my land and in
the way . I needed them cut and did not want to waste the wood. I could cut
what I wanted when I wanted. To get oak or other hard wood, I would either
have to buy it, or wait for someone to call me about a tree.
I had to load the stove about 3 times as much in a day as I do for oak.

On Jun 12, 10:15*am, Danny D wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky wrote:
Before I throw the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might
be good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Depends on the tree, and the locale, but my foot-thick oak wouldn't
burn in a campfire within a month of cutting; but, a year later, it
burned like it was nuclear power.

Here in the Silicon Valley, it's dry weather, so your locale may
also make a difference.

There's (probably) nothing wrong with throwing it in a stream bed,
(although here in California, you'd probably need a permit); but,
I question why a stream bed? Why not just pile it alongside?

Or, is the point for the wood to float downstream, off your
property?

but my foot-thick oak wouldn't
burn in a campfire within a month of cutting; but, a year later, it
burned like it was nuclear power.

who woulda thunk?

I guess the first time was off season?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"DD_BobK" wrote in message ...

but my foot-thick oak wouldn't
burn in a campfire within a month of cutting; but, a year later, it
burned like it was nuclear power.

who woulda thunk?

Willow is OK if you soak it full of used crankcase oil.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
What is your opinion on Willow as firewood? It is the only species
readily available here in the Palouse (Washington State). Haven't
looked recently but IIANM it ranks right with Cottonwood at near the

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 05:42:16 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Jun 13, 2:46*am, micky wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 21:12:28 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:









On Jun 12, 12:35*pm, micky wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:00:18 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:38:48 -0400, micky
wrote in Re Good for
firewood?:

The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Yes, *"green" wood generally cuts easier than seasoned (dry) wood.

I had no idea! *It was worth asking for this fact alone.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed,

I'm sorry. *I should have said, "If I don't want it, before I throw it
in the stream bed to get rid of it...." *It was clear to me, but I see
that it's totally unclear to a reader.

does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

Let it dry out for a year, preferably someplace protected from rain,
but that isn't absolutely necessary.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed,

This didn't help. *I meant if there is some environmental reason I
shouldn't throw it in the stream bed.

dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. *I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

Don't stack it in a stream bed. *Stack it someplace with good drainage
and the least exposure to wetness. *The dryer the better, but just
stacked out in the open where it can dry out after getting rained on
will work. *If you can cover it with a tarp after it's stacked it will
dry better.

I would but I have a 6' x 4' stack already and I'm not using much of
it.

Thanks.

Just a comment on "throw it in the stream" *Don't do it. *It will only
stay there and not rot as long as it remains covered with water.

That's what I meant by stream *bed*. * *It only floods for about 10 or
20 hours a year, spread out over about 4 incidents a year. * The rest
of the time it's the ground may be damp but there's no standing water
in that part of the bed. *The normal stream has running water all the
time, but this is the flood stage bed.

The property management woman was going to call the company that mows
the lawn. *I guess they would take the wood away, but would they find
a better use for it?

Maybe the pieces of the trunk but what about the limbs that are 4
inches thick or less?

It seems like a lot of work for them for very little benefit to
society. * Plus they bill the HOA.







Harry K

I'm curious. Just what do you think you would accomplish by tossing
it in the stream bed?

I get rid of it.

Harry K

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 05:50:11 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:55:23 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/12/2013 10:58 PM, Harry K wrote:
On Jun 12, 10:21 am, wrote:
On 6/12/2013 9:52 AM, Harry K wrote:
...

Worthless for anything? There are a lot of people living out in the
middle and west side of the country that will disagree. Value of any
wood depends on where it it is. Were I in the Eastern US I wouildn't
touch cottonwood as far better wood is available. May come as news to
you but world in the Northern Hemisphere there is far more softwood
than hardwood burned as hardwoods are not available.

FWIW that you apparently don't know. ALL wood contains approximately
the same BTU per pound. Thus a pound of balsa will put out just as
much heat as a pound of oak.

I know quite a lot about cottonwood and wood scarcity, actually, living
on the High Plains where the cottonwood is about the only thing there
was (and precious few of them before turn of 20th century).

They were used some, yes, and there were even attempts early on to
actually turn them into commercial lumber but all were _very_ shortlived.

That it does have a similar Btu content doesn't mean that it burns at
all well and is much suited for firewood, either. It is similar to some
of the other common trees in the area such as Siberian elm in that it
produces a very high quantity of ash when burned.

From US Forest Products Laboratory...

Eastern cottonwood is moderately weak in bending and in compression,
moderately soft, and relatively low in ability to resist shock. Black
cotton wood rates below eastern cottonwood in strength properties.
Neither species is durable under conditions favorable to decay.
Cottonwood lumber is prone to warping, but shrinkage is moderate.

I'll concede it is used some in small items such as containers and such
where the white color lets it be stenciled easily and it does make a
good pulp wood for paper for much the same reasons. How much is
actually commercially consumed viz a viz other species I didn't look up
but I suspect it's a pretty small fraction.

The tree itself (other than the nuisance cotton-shedding) is quite a
nice shade tree and being akin to the aspens, the leaf rustling sounds
are very pleasant in moderate to low breezes. Unfortunately, here in SW
KS the days of only "moderate" wind aren't necessarily all that common
altho today is pretty good, last to have been steady 30-40 mph gusting
to 45+. Tomorrow is projected another at 30 or so ahead of the next front.

--

Your original comment was that it was worthless for _firewood_. The
only thing you medntioned about that was it produces a lot of ash.
...

It's still pretty much worthless; only that if there's nothing else then
one may have to make do...

And I also mentioned it doesn't burn worth a crap for fire, too...too
fast if dry and not easy to keep going if wet.

All in all, as a wood except for pulpwood and some other very limited
uses it's just not much of anything to brag about.

It's much better as a tree.

Maybe I can put it back together again.

All my muscles are sore and I was too tired to do any work on
Wednesday, but my back has not hurt since Tuesday, the day I cut it
up. . It's been hurting for 3 months if I walk more than 10
minutes.
Hard work is good therapy!!!!

micky wrote:
The tree I cut uip today had leaves all over it, and "fruit" too.

I've never cut up a live tree before, only dead stuff that fell over
because it was dead.

But the little chain saw went through this wood very quickly. IMO.

Before Ihrow the wood in the stream bed, does that mean it might be
good as firewood, or would it have to sit for a year or two.

If I shouldn't throw it in a stream bed, dry most of the year, what
should I do with it. I have enough firewood already and I can't
babysit it for a year.

I'm at camp. Dry wood would be nice. It's burning very slow.

Greg

On Jun 13, 8:50*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Willow is OK if you soak it full of used crankcase oil.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
* *www.lds.org
.
.

"Harry K" wrote in message

...







What is your opinion on Willow as firewood? *It is the only species
readily available here in the Palouse (Washington State). *Haven't
looked recently but IIANM it ranks right with Cottonwood at near the

Another moron heard. You probably have never burned wood or even knew
anyone who had.
But then I am talking to a moron who doesn't know that top posting is
anathema in usenet.

Harry K