So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:47:59 -0800 (PST), finiteguy
wrote:

So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install?

Some can be. At least the cheap ones. Others are not.

I would like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?

Tell us the substrate under the present floor cover.

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:13:03 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:47:59 -0800 (PST), finiteguy

wrote:



So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install?
There are 2 layers of linoleum. I could remove the top layer because the installer used adhesive around the edges. He did a crappy job 20 years ago. This is why I'd rather replace it myself.
The subfloor, is old tounge and groove pine or oak but its covered with the first coat of linoleum that is presumably all stuck down with glue on the entire floor area. I realize that my surfave has to be pretty smooth and flat for the job to come out decent.



Some can be. At least the cheap ones. Others are not.



I would like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work.. Do you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?



Tell us the substrate under the present floor cover.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:27:38 -0800 (PST), finiteguy
wrote:

The subfloor, is old tounge and groove pine or oak but its covered with the first coat of linoleum that is presumably all stuck down with glue on the entire floor area.

See if it is glued down. Go from there. Try not to presume it is glued
until you check for certain.

I realize that my surfave has to be pretty smooth and flat for the job to come out decent.


Interlocking flooring can be terrible trying to install. Some actually
resembles "cardboard", damaged edges from the box. Difficult to "snap"
a tight fit.

I would seriously consider going with a T&G type over the snap-lock
material.

Some new vinyl flooring can be installed with double-sided tape --
provided the substrate is well prepared.

Oren wrote in
:



Interlocking flooring can be terrible trying to install. Some actually
resembles "cardboard", damaged edges from the box. Difficult to "snap"
a tight fit.

I would seriously consider going with a T&G type over the snap-lock
material.

Some new vinyl flooring can be installed with double-sided tape --
provided the substrate is well prepared.



We just had a new, floating, vinyl floor installed in our lunchroom at
work. The pieces came with half-thickness extensions on two adjacent edges
that were self-adhesive. The other two adjacent edges were skived on their
undersides to receive the extensions on the other piece, creating a half
lap joint.

Lay in register, press in place. It looked really easy.


--
Tegger

On Feb 26, 10:47*pm, finiteguy wrote:
So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?

Every floating floor product that I have seen, the edges
do not get nailed down. The whole point of floating is so
that it can, well, float as needed if it expands/contracts.

On Wednesday 27 February 2013 13:51 wrote in
alt.home.repair:

On Feb 26, 10:47 pm, finiteguy wrote:
So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are
those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would like
to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail
down the edges to constrain the floor?

Every floating floor product that I have seen, the edges
do not get nailed down. The whole point of floating is so
that it can, well, float as needed if it expands/contracts.

+1

I've laid several floating floors - both engineered wood and laminates.

For the OP:

You handle the edges by either:

1) Removing the skirting and putting back a little higher so it covers the
gap. The gap you need to leave is specified by the manufacturer, but
1/4-1/2" is typical depending on product and room size.

2) (The crappy option IMHO, but sometimes other methods are not practical):
go up to the skirting, leaving a gap. Fill teh gap with cork strip or cover
the gap with beading pinned onto the skirting.

Do not constrain a floating floor or it *will* buckle - usually when the
humidity rises but also on temperature increases - again product dependent.

Persoanlly I would be very wary of laminate tiles or strips in kitchens or
bathrooms. I know theire are versions that claim to be water resistant, but
unless you get some specific feedback that a particular product really is
good, I would be careful.

What about vinyl? I had a good quality vinyl laid in my last kitchen and the
cost of the shop fitters to lay it was only a small increase on the purchase
price. They were in and gone in an hour and apart from the hassle of
clearing the kitchen and disconnecting the freestanding cooker, it was
painless.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Feb 27, 9:26*am, Tim Watts wrote:
On Wednesday 27 February 2013 13:51 wrote in
alt.home.repair:

On Feb 26, 10:47 pm, finiteguy wrote:
So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are
those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would like
to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail
down the edges to constrain the floor?

Every floating floor product that I have seen, the edges
do not get nailed down. *The whole point of floating is so
that it can, well, float as needed if it expands/contracts.

+1

I've laid several floating floors - both engineered wood and laminates.

For the OP:

You handle the edges by either:

1) Removing the skirting and putting back a little higher so it covers the
gap. The gap you need to leave is specified by the manufacturer, but
1/4-1/2" is typical depending on product and room size.

2) (The crappy option IMHO, but sometimes other methods are not practical):
go up to the skirting, leaving a gap. Fill teh gap with cork strip or cover
the gap with beading pinned onto the skirting.

Do not constrain a floating floor or it *will* buckle - usually when the
humidity rises but also on temperature increases - again product dependent.

finiteguy wrote:
So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are
those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would
like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do
you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?

You do not nail anything. The floor "floats" to acommodate expansion and
contraction due to humidity. If you nailed it down, the floor would buckle.
Expansion and contraction is on the order of a few thousandths of an inch.

These floors, on a scale of 1-10 in difficulty, are about a 2. In other
words, they are very, very, easy. Not only, but it's a fun and rewarding
project.

Here are some tips:

* In many cases, you should put down a "vapor barrier". Even if not
required, the cushioning effect yields a better feeling/sounding floor.

* Usually, the long dimension of the planks should be parellel to the
longest dimension of the room.

* It is generally NOT necessary to remove the existing linoleum.

* Remove the existing baseboards. This is an excellent opportunity to clean,
repaint, or replace them.

* You'll want a special tool to snug the planks together. This is it:
http://www.harborfreight.com/floor-i...kit-96447.html
You hook one end of the metal bar to the narrow end of the last plank and
whack the other end of the tool with a 2# sledge. This closes any
almost-invisible gaps.

* To cut the planks, you'll need a saw.

* A rubber hammer.

A bad source for material is Home Depot or Loews. A good source is Lumber
Liquidators or Floor & Decor outlets since the price is about half of the
box stores. If not in a hurry, check Craigslist. Fools sometimes take out
their laminate flooring so they can install purple shag carpets. I scored
almost 2,000 sq ft of "mahogany" pattern for free!

Lastly, do NOT worry about wear, durability, staining, etc. Laminate
flooring is almost indestructible. Also, termites won't eat it.

On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:11:17 AM UTC-5, HeyBub wrote:
finiteguy wrote: So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail down the edges to constrain the floor? You do not nail anything. The floor "floats" to acommodate expansion and contraction due to humidity. If you nailed it down, the floor would buckle. Expansion and contraction is on the order of a few thousandths of an inch. These floors, on a scale of 1-10 in difficulty, are about a 2. In other words, they are very, very, easy. Not only, but it's a fun and rewarding project. Here are some tips: * In many cases, you should put down a "vapor barrier". Even if not required, the cushioning effect yields a better feeling/sounding floor. * Usually, the long dimension of the planks should be parellel to the longest dimension of the room. * It is generally NOT necessary to remove the existing linoleum. * Remove the existing baseboards. This is an excellent opportunity to clean, repaint, or replace them. * You'll want a special tool to snug the planks together. This is it: http://www.harborfreight.com/floor-i...kit-96447.html You hook one end of the metal bar to the narrow end of the last plank and whack the other end of the tool with a 2# sledge. This closes any almost-invisible gaps. * To cut the planks, you'll need a saw. * A rubber hammer. A bad source for material is Home Depot or Loews. A good source is Lumber Liquidators or Floor & Decor outlets since the price is about half of the box stores. If not in a hurry, check Craigslist. Fools sometimes take out their laminate flooring so they can install purple shag carpets. I scored almost 2,000 sq ft of "mahogany" pattern for free! Lastly, do NOT worry about wear, durability, staining, etc. Laminate flooring is almost indestructible. Also, termites won't eat it.

Thanks for your help here. I have found that my kitchen floor is wavey in some areas. Not sure if that will be a problem.

On Wednesday 27 February 2013 17:11 finiteguy wrote in alt.home.repair:


Thanks for your help here. I have found that my kitchen floor is wavey in
some areas. Not sure if that will be a problem.

If you mean "it's not flat" then you will have problems unless you address
them.

A variation of 1mm over a distance of 1m in either direction is about the
most typical products will handle. Again, the manufacturer will (or should)
specify this.

Any more and it will bounce and the joints creak - leading to joint damage.

A small local dip can be packed out with one or more layers of dense card -
I buy some 1 and 2mm stuff from the art shop in large sheets for this type
of job - there's always a dip somewhere...

Bumps are a little harder to deal with - usually involves making a card ring
to even it out a bit. Thick underlay (5mm) helps but does not solve all
problems.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:27:38 -0800 (PST), finiteguy
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:13:03 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:47:59 -0800 (PST), finiteguy

wrote:



So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install?
There are 2 layers of linoleum. I could remove the top layer because the installer used adhesive around the edges. He did a crappy job 20 years ago. This is why I'd rather replace it myself.
The subfloor, is old tounge and groove pine or oak but its covered with the first coat of linoleum that is presumably all stuck down with glue on the entire floor area. I realize that my surfave has to be pretty smooth and flat for the job to come out decent.



Some can be. At least the cheap ones. Others are not.



I would like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?



Tell us the substrate under the present floor cover.
Remove the base board/cove moulding/quarter round/whatever and lay
the floor to within1/4" on all sides, then reinstall the trim. NO
nailing. If anything a bead of adhesive around the outer course - but
I'd even recommend against that. Use the stuff that's 3/8" (10mm )
thick or heavier - the 8mm stuff is CHEEP, even when it is not
inexpensive. It can be laid over straight t&g subfloor with the
recommended underlay film, or over existing linoleum. I've seen it
fone over indoor/outdoor type olefin carpet - but in my opinion that's
being just plane lazy (and stupid).

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:31:24 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Wednesday 27 February 2013 17:11 finiteguy wrote in alt.home.repair:


Thanks for your help here. I have found that my kitchen floor is wavey in
some areas. Not sure if that will be a problem.

If you mean "it's not flat" then you will have problems unless you address
them.

A variation of 1mm over a distance of 1m in either direction is about the
most typical products will handle. Again, the manufacturer will (or should)
specify this.

Any more and it will bounce and the joints creak - leading to joint damage.

A small local dip can be packed out with one or more layers of dense card -
I buy some 1 and 2mm stuff from the art shop in large sheets for this type
of job - there's always a dip somewhere...

Bumps are a little harder to deal with - usually involves making a card ring
to even it out a bit. Thick underlay (5mm) helps but does not solve all
problems.
A big belt sander looks after the "bumps" but makes a lot of dust.
Floor leveling compound looks after the "dips"

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:47:59 PM UTC-5, finiteguy wrote:
So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?

Most every brand of flooring has a how-to video that shows you how to install their product. Or, watch HGTV for 30 minutes. Judge for yourself.

If the existing floor is smooth and even you can probably just get away with laying down the foam padding and installing the new floating floor in place.

It's called a FLOATING floor for a reason. If you nail it down around the edges it can't float.

The videos usually show how it's finished, using quarter-round moulding that covers the slight gap between the flooring and the wall. You do need to get it fit fairly tight to the wall, less than 1/2" gap.

On Wednesday 27 February 2013 21:28 wrote in
alt.home.repair:

A big belt sander looks after the "bumps" but makes a lot of dust.
Floor leveling compound looks after the "dips"

Assuming the subfloor is concrete :-)

The OP asked about "nailing down" the new floor, so I assumed it was a
timber+joist subfloor.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

finiteguy wrote:
So, I have a 30 year old linoleum floor and I want to change it. Are
those new floating type interlocking floors hard to install? I would
like to do it myself. How do you do the edges near the wood work. Do
you nail down the edges to constrain the floor?

finiteguy also wrote:

The subfloor, is old tongue and groove pine or oak but its covered with

the first coat of linoleum that is presumably all stuck down with glue on

the entire floor area. I realize that my surface has to be pretty smooth

and flat for the job to come out decent.


Regarding your existing floor, it may help if you could take a couple of
photos and post them here using a photo upload site such as
http://tinypic.com/ .

You may be able to just install your new floor over your existing linoleum
depending on the condition etc. Or, sometimes you can just install 4x8
sheets of "luan" on top of the existing linoleum floor to create a new
smooth surface to work with.

Depending on which type of flooring you get, they are pretty easy to
install.

For what you are considering doing, I think there are basically 2 types:

1) vinyl flooring strips that glue/peel-and-stick together on the edges;
and,

2) waterproof interlocking strips (laminate?) that snap/click together.

Here are some YouTube videos regarding the two types for just one brand of
product (Allure). I assume there are many other brands to choose from.


Here are the vinyl glue/peel-and-stick together types:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2bEs04f9pc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTH9102E7qk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO0v8Cx255k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOlwrjU3jMY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-EPCyytKFU



Here are the waterproof interlocking type that snap/click together:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJwTzQMPzS0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmh3BTkNOb0



The last link in the first group shows an alleged "failure" of a newly
installed Allure vinyl glue/peel-and-stick together vinyl floor. What it
doesn't show is how the edges were done along the walls. To me, it looks
like they probably installed the floating floor right up to and against the
walls, and the whole floor probably expanded a little in both directions
when the room warmed up. At least, that's how the buckles in the flooring
look to me. My guess is that the floor in that last video can easily be
fixed by trimming about 1/4 - 1/2 inch off around the exterior edges so the
floor can lay flat.



Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do and how it worked out.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:30 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

2) waterproof interlocking strips (laminate?) that snap/click together.

The snap/click type of flooring I've seen or worked with was not a
laminate. More like a fibrous cardboard material. Flimsy, difficult
to fit and easily damaged. Water is an enemy.

T&G is usually a laminate -- much easier to work with when fitting
together. Some T&G can be inexpensive. When I pulled carpet from my
office, we put in a floating floor covering (last home). Resisted any
moisture. Took much abuse from my office chair rolling around
everyday. And was terribly costly.

Some T&G laminate (Mohawk) can burn your saw blades in a new yawk
minute. Hard wood laminated that has metal in it (Aluminum?)

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:40:25 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:30 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

2) waterproof interlocking strips (laminate?) that snap/click together.

The snap/click type of flooring I've seen or worked with was not a
laminate. More like a fibrous cardboard material. Flimsy, difficult
to fit and easily damaged. Water is an enemy.

T&G is usually a laminate -- much easier to work with when fitting
together. Some T&G can be inexpensive. When I pulled carpet from my
office, we put in a floating floor covering (last home). Resisted any
moisture. Took much abuse from my office chair rolling around
everyday. And was terribly costly.

Some T&G laminate (Mohawk) can burn your saw blades in a new yawk
minute. Hard wood laminated that has metal in it (Aluminum?)
Virtually all "laminate" flooring here in canada is clic-lok type -
and virtually all clic-lok type flooring is laminate. The other
clic-lok type flooring is "engineered hardwood".

Miost laminate flooring IS the crappy fiber/cardboard/hardboard type -
but it comes in various quality levels from pure crap to decent
quality. Some of the better quality stuff has a waxed edge that seals
waterproof when assempled. I hve some in my main batrhroom that looks
like ceramic tile, and in my daughter's foyer that looks like quarry
stone - both with the sealed edges.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:40:25 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:30 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

2) waterproof interlocking strips (laminate?) that snap/click together.

The snap/click type of flooring I've seen or worked with was not a
laminate. More like a fibrous cardboard material. Flimsy, difficult
to fit and easily damaged. Water is an enemy.

T&G is usually a laminate -- much easier to work with when fitting
together. Some T&G can be inexpensive. When I pulled carpet from my
office, we put in a floating floor covering (last home). Resisted any
moisture. Took much abuse from my office chair rolling around
everyday. And was terribly costly.

Some T&G laminate (Mohawk) can burn your saw blades in a new yawk
minute. Hard wood laminated that has metal in it (Aluminum?)


The good laminate, engineered hardwood, and prefinished hard wood all
have aluminum oxide in the wear layer, which is really hard on saw
blades.

As for the cost of laminate, anywhere from $0.69 to $3.99 per square
foot - which isn't expensive as far as I'm concerned. The vinyl in my
kitchen cost more, as did any of my carpet.

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:40:25 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:30 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

2) waterproof interlocking strips (laminate?) that snap/click
together.

The snap/click type of flooring I've seen or worked with was not a
laminate. More like a fibrous cardboard material. Flimsy, difficult
to fit and easily damaged. Water is an enemy.

T&G is usually a laminate -- much easier to work with when fitting
together. Some T&G can be inexpensive. When I pulled carpet from my
office, we put in a floating floor covering (last home). Resisted
any moisture. Took much abuse from my office chair rolling around
everyday. And was terribly costly.

Some T&G laminate (Mohawk) can burn your saw blades in a new yawk
minute. Hard wood laminated that has metal in it (Aluminum?)


The good laminate, engineered hardwood, and prefinished hard wood all
have aluminum oxide in the wear layer, which is really hard on saw
blades.

As for the cost of laminate, anywhere from $0.69 to $3.99 per square
foot - which isn't expensive as far as I'm concerned. The vinyl in my
kitchen cost more, as did any of my carpet.

The prices I've seen is $0.49/sq ft. to $3.99.
http://www.flooranddecoroutlets.com/laminate.html

You can step up a notch to LumberLiquidators and get a range of $0.79 to
$2.89
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/ll/...S&N=5%207&Ne=4

If a major concern is durability/quality, this should not disqualify the el
cheapo product from a low-use area, such as the guest bedroom.

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:30 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

2) waterproof interlocking strips (laminate?) that snap/click
together.

The snap/click type of flooring I've seen or worked with was not a
laminate. More like a fibrous cardboard material. Flimsy, difficult
to fit and easily damaged. Water is an enemy.


As far as "Water is an enemy" goes for the snap/click type of flooring, I
thought the same thing. But the links that I provided say the stuff they
are selling is waterproof and it can be used in bathrooms, laundry rooms,
basements, etc. I don't know because I haven't used it or even checked it
out yet at a big box store, Lumber Liquidators, etc. I wonder what it is
made of since it doesn't say it is "vinyl", but it also doesn't say what it
is. And, I wonder how it looks -- because people often say "it looks just
like real hardwood" but my experience is that it usually looks like fake
hardwood to me.

I found those links and started investigating because investors and
landlords in another forum that I belong to have started discussing this
stuff recently. I would have to do more research on my own to be convinced
that, yes it is waterproof, and yes it really does look like real hardwood
flooring.

I am actually thinking about trying one of these -- the snap/click stuff --
in a 1-bedroom, living room, den apartment that is now down to the subfloor
where I was planning on putting in new hardwood flooring in all 3 rooms.

On 3/1/2013 8:44 AM, TomR wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:30 -0500, wrote:

2) waterproof interlocking strips (laminate?) that snap/click
together.

The snap/click type of flooring I've seen or worked with was not a
laminate. More like a fibrous cardboard material. Flimsy, difficult
to fit and easily damaged. Water is an enemy.


As far as "Water is an enemy" goes for the snap/click type of flooring, I
thought the same thing. But the links that I provided say the stuff they
are selling is waterproof and it can be used in bathrooms, laundry rooms,
basements, etc. I don't know because I haven't used it or even checked it
out yet at a big box store, Lumber Liquidators, etc. I wonder what it is
made of since it doesn't say it is "vinyl", but it also doesn't say what it
is. And, I wonder how it looks -- because people often say "it looks just
like real hardwood" but my experience is that it usually looks like fake
hardwood to me.
....

There are various; some is vinyl. How natural it looks is in large part
directly proportional to how expensive it is. The best reproduction
products may be as much or more than you can get engineered wood
flooring for. Of course, while the engineered wood is much more
moisture tolerant than traditional solid wood owing to the manufacturing
process, it is still wood and isn't "waterproof" in the sense of
withstanding standing water indefinitely. Of course, the subfloor
unless it's concrete or something won't even w/ the vinyl, either...

--

TomR wrote:
As far as "Water is an enemy" goes for the snap/click type of
flooring, I thought the same thing. But the links that I provided
say the stuff they are selling is waterproof and it can be used in
bathrooms, laundry rooms, basements, etc. I don't know because I
haven't used it or even checked it out yet at a big box store, Lumber
Liquidators, etc. I wonder what it is made of since it doesn't say
it is "vinyl", but it also doesn't say what it is. And, I wonder how
it looks -- because people often say "it looks just like real
hardwood" but my experience is that it usually looks like fake
hardwood to me.
I found those links and started investigating because investors and
landlords in another forum that I belong to have started discussing
this stuff recently. I would have to do more research on my own to
be convinced that, yes it is waterproof, and yes it really does look
like real hardwood flooring.

I am actually thinking about trying one of these -- the snap/click
stuff -- in a 1-bedroom, living room, den apartment that is now down
to the subfloor where I was planning on putting in new hardwood
flooring in all 3 rooms.

After my first laminate flooring job (cheap stuff, $0.49 sq ft) I ran an
experiment. I took some scraps and put them in a glass of water. After a
MONTH of being submerged, I could not find ANY difference within the
precision of my micrometer (0.002 - 0.001 inches).

I'd say, based on the experiment, that (some) laminate is about as
vulnerable to water as a duck.

I also tried scratching the scraps with a nail, a rasp, and whatever was
lying about. No damage.

I also understand that even cheap laminate is coated with the same material
they use on jet fighter windshields. I tell you, they could make body armor
out of the stuff.