I asked in the old thread a few days ago, but nobody saw it so I'm
reposting this question.

Why would anyone C clamp open all the fireplace flues?

When I tried to open the flue before lighting the fire, I noticed that
the handle to open and close the flue didn't move. It was stuck in place.
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3208/f...lighting52.jpg

I didn't realize there was a special C clamp on the flue plate until
I went to the other fireplace, which looks like it has never been used.
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3785/f...lighting67.jpg

There, I saw the same strange C clamp only without the black soot:
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/2425/f...lighting68.jpg

Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?
Should I just remove the clamps?

Jim wrote in :

Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?

Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust gases to leave
the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.

Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without checking the
damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open all the time, especially
if the fireplace is used frequently.

Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper in a fireplace *not*
in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is* in use -- could be that
none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open damper somewhere.

Should I just remove the clamps?

At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate properly, and the
fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can
remember to check them before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if the
fireplaces draw properly otherwise.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
Jim wrote in :

Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?

Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust
gases to leave
the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.

Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without
checking the
damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open
all the time, especially
if the fireplace is used frequently.

Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper
in a fireplace *not*
in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is*
in use -- could be that
none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open
damper somewhere.

Dats a tight house indeed.
Mine is like a sieve. I don't think HD nationwide has enough caulk or Great
Stuff.... which is not so great, imo....
--
EA



Should I just remove the clamps?

At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
properly, and the
fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s) closed. If they do,
and if you can
remember to check them before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep
them all open if the
fireplaces draw properly otherwise.

Doug Miller wrote:

At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
properly, and the fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s)
closed.

Thanks for the clarification on the damper.
I didn't know if the clamp was a safety feature or what.
I'll remove the clamnps to see what happens with the air.

On 12/25/2012 3:00 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in :

Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?

Those are dampers, not flues. The flue is the passageway for the exhaust gases to leave
the house. The mechanism that opens and closes it is the damper.

Possibly due to a knuckleheaded family member who lights fires without checking the
damper first. Or possibly due to laziness -- easier to just keep it open all the time, especially
if the fireplace is used frequently.

Another possibility is that the house is tight enough that an open damper in a fireplace *not*
in use is necessary to supply sufficient combustion air to one that *is* in use -- could be that
none of them will draw properly unless there's at least one more open damper somewhere.

Should I just remove the clamps?

At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate properly, and the
fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can
remember to check them before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if the
fireplaces draw properly otherwise.

A house we own in Redmond, Oregon has a big stone fireplace with glass
doors in the front. The year we moved there we had a big fire in the
fireplace during a winter storm. About 5 degrees, snowing hard and big
wind from the South. One big gust of wind blew open the glass doors and
slammed shut the damper. Guess where the smoke and flames went? We were
in the room and I quickly grabbed a stick of firewood and got the damper
open and doors closed.

Got a piece of wire and managed to wire the damper open.

Later I fabricated a stainless steel latch on the damper handle to hold
it either open or closed. No further problems. The heavy wooden mantle
showed signs that this had happened before.

In my experience, dampers should ALWAYS have some positive
latching/locking mechanism.

Paul

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 22:22:00 +0000 (UTC), Jim wrote:

I asked in the old thread a few days ago, but nobody saw it so I'm
reposting this question.

Why would anyone C clamp open all the fireplace flues?

When I tried to open the flue before lighting the fire, I noticed that
the handle to open and close the flue didn't move. It was stuck in place.
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3208/f...lighting52.jpg

I didn't realize there was a special C clamp on the flue plate until
I went to the other fireplace, which looks like it has never been used.
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3785/f...lighting67.jpg

There, I saw the same strange C clamp only without the black soot:
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/2425/f...lighting68.jpg

Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?

Because and I clamp wouldn't work?

Because they kept lighting fires without opening the flue?

Because Santa Claus was expected last night and he can barely squeeze
through even with them open.

Because 2 and 3 were jealous of 1.

Because they believed in open relationships.

Should I just remove the clamps?

On 12/25/2012 4:37 PM, Jim wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
properly, and the fireplaces will draw properly with the unused one(s)
closed.

Thanks for the clarification on the damper.
I didn't know if the clamp was a safety feature or what.
I'll remove the clamnps to see what happens with the air.

If by "see what happens," you mean you're gonna instrument it
under different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy
is rehearsed.

My fireplace is capped, 'cause I don't use it.

The range vent hood can pull a 5 Pascal vacuum on the inside.

I'd be nervous about a smoldering fire with negative
pressure.

mike wrote:

If by "see what happens," you mean you're gonna instrument it under
different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy is
rehearsed

I was just gonna 'look' at the fire.

What else 'can' I do to figure out WHY the dampers are all locked open?

On 12/25/2012 8:36 PM, Jim wrote:
mike wrote:

If by "see what happens," you mean you're gonna instrument it under
different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy is
rehearsed

I was just gonna 'look' at the fire.

What else 'can' I do to figure out WHY the dampers are all locked open?


Mine has little clamps that come with them. I figured it was to make
sure they stayed open so you don't kill anyone.

On 12/25/2012 6:36 PM, Jim wrote:
mike wrote:

If by "see what happens," you mean you're gonna instrument it under
different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy is
rehearsed

I was just gonna 'look' at the fire.

What else 'can' I do to figure out WHY the dampers are all locked open?

Executive summary: "curiosity killed the cat!"
The only rational reason to ask a question is if your future depends
on the answer. Your only future option is to close the vents.
If you're not gonna risk closing the vents, the why is irrelevant.

The only way to get an accurate answer is to locate the person who
locked 'em and ask.

But you're asking the wrong question. The question you probably
want is, "what happens if I close one or more of them?"

Pondering why they're locked open is preferable to pondering
why your kids died in their sleep while you were experimenting.

There's lots of stuff done to make sure that it's never a problem
under the worst imaginable conditions. Your experiments likely won't
cover all those bases. But it's very likely that you won't
die...maybe...probably...except in that rare case when you do.

If you're burning wood, I'd be worried.
If it's a properly adjusted gas flame with outside combustion air,
it's a lot safer.
Heck, 50 years ago we used to heat with open-flame gas and no vents
at all.
Wonder if there's any correlation between that and the fact that
I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

If you're gonna muck with the heating system combustion products,
don't just guess.
Get the tools and MEASURE it.

Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
little information you've provided is being irresponsible.

On Dec 25, 10:27*pm, mike wrote:
On 12/25/2012 6:36 PM, Jim wrote: mike wrote:

If by "see what happens," you mean you're gonna instrument it under
different wind direction/speeds and fire conditions, that's great.
If not, make sure your CO detectors work and your exit strategy is
rehearsed

I was just gonna 'look' at the fire.

What else 'can' I do to figure out WHY the dampers are all locked open?

Executive summary: "curiosity killed the cat!"
The only rational reason to ask a question is if your future depends
on the answer. * Your only future option is to close the vents.
If you're not gonna risk closing the vents, the why is irrelevant.

The only way to get an accurate answer is to locate the person who
locked 'em and ask.

But you're asking the wrong question. *The question you probably
want is, "what happens if I close one or more of them?"

Pondering why they're locked open is preferable to pondering
why your kids died in their sleep while you were experimenting.

There's lots of stuff done to make sure that it's never a problem
under the worst imaginable conditions. *Your experiments likely won't
cover all those bases. *But it's very likely that you won't
die...maybe...probably...except in that rare case when you do.

If you're burning wood, I'd be worried.
If it's a properly adjusted gas flame with outside combustion air,
it's a lot safer.
Heck, 50 years ago we used to heat with open-flame gas and no vents
at all.
Wonder if there's any correlation between that and the fact that
I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

If you're gonna muck with the heating system combustion products,
don't just guess.
Get the tools and MEASURE it.

Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
little information you've provided is being irresponsible.

I would et a PRO to camera inspect all the flues, and explain the
dampers locked open...

for your safety!!!

On 12-25-2012 17:22, Jim wrote:
Why would anyone C clamp all the fireplace flues open?

You said this was also on one that hadn't been used.
Could ti be put on by the manufacturer to keep it from moving during
shipping? I wouldn't think so, but ....

--
Wes Groleau

€œTwo things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
But I'm not so sure about the universe.€�
€” Albert Einstein

On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
little information you've provided is being irresponsible.

If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.

--
Wes Groleau

€œTwo things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
But I'm not so sure about the universe.€�
€” Albert Einstein

On 12/25/2012 8:30 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
little information you've provided is being irresponsible.

If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.



Closing the damper on a fireplace not in use restricts air flow into
the space.

I haven't had a fire since I sealed the place, but based
on the pressure measurements, I'm certain that if
I unblocked the chimney and turned
on the kitchen exhaust fan, it'd suck smoke down the chimney.

Like I said...closing a damper is not a problem...until it is.
Where death is involved, you wanna be very sure.

Wes Groleau wrote:

You said this was also on one that hadn't been used.
Could ti be put on by the manufacturer to keep it from moving during
shipping? I wouldn't think so, but ....

It's on all the fireplace dampers!

I don't have a clue why it's there, especially since all the dampers have
their own opening/closing/locking mechanism.

That's why I asked!

Jim wrote:

I don't have a clue why it's there, especially since all the dampers
have their own opening/closing/locking mechanism.

I went to images.google.com and typed in "fireplace damper safety clamp".

Lots of pictures similar to what you've got there.

Here's one for a damper clamp.
http://mci-mastercreiainspector.com/...ome-inspection
"When properly installed, this clamp will prevent the damper from closing.
If a gas leak occurs, the gas will not enter the living space,
but will be vented up through the chimney."

Here's an LA Times news article:
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/dec...state/re-40560
Disabling Fireplace Damper Keeps Home Safe From Fumes

http://mj-dakota.xomba.com/what_fireplace_damper_clamp
These clamps are placed on the fireplace flue damper to keep it open
allowing venting for the pilot exhaust. This is a code compliance issue
(for most states and counties in the US) anytime there is a gas
appliance in a fireplace and a safety issue due to carbon monoxide
released by the burning gas.

http://www.perfectionfireplace.com/faqs.html
a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs. The damper clip locks the damper in the open position
at all times. This is done as a safety precaution, to prevent gases
produced by your fire from entering your home. With gas logs, there
is no smoke produced, and therefore no indicator that the damper is
closed, which causes a potentially hazardous situation.

Doug Miller wrote:

At least, remove them long enough to find out if the dampers operate
properly, and the fireplaces will draw properly with the unused
one(s) closed. If they do, and if you can remember to check them
before lighting a fire, there's no reason to keep them all open if
the fireplaces draw properly otherwise.

Yes there is: So you don't have to fiddle with it ever again.

Ah, you might say, that defeats the purpose by allowing outside air to
influence the inside temperature!

Not at my house, or at least not so much.

A couple of years ago I scored a fireplace screen from Craigslist for $45.
It consists of a frame clamped to the fireplace itself, two wire-mesh doors,
and two tempered glass doors. After enjoying the fire as much as needed, I
can close all the doors and make the front of the fireplace almost air
tight. No air, or not much, can enter or leave the fireplace. And I don't
have to fuss with the damper at all. Plus, I don't have to reach into the
still smoldering embers to engage the hot damper.

And before anyone haruumps "There's still SOME leakage!", I'll admit to
that, but probably no more so than around a closed damper.

Mine is similar to this one:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.UNsAH-THWzk

On 12/26/2012 5:51 AM, HeyBub wrote:
.. No air, or not much, can enter or leave the fireplace. And I don't
have to fuss with the damper at all. Plus, I don't have to reach into the
still smoldering embers to engage the hot damper.

Are you saying that you were in the habit of closing the damper while
the embers are still smoldering.
If so, we have discovered why the dampers are locked open...because of you.
;-)
Glad you're still alive.

Jim:

I didn't read all the other posts in this thread, but I can think of at least two reasons why a previous home owner would have secured the fire place flue dampers open:

1. Dryer exhaust duct is clogged with lint. Clothes aren't drying properly. Home owner misdiagnoses the problem as being insufficient make-up air coming into the house to replace warm moist air being blown out by the dryer. So, he opens the flue vents to allow for more made-up air.

2. Thermocouple on water heater is old and barely producing sufficient voltage to keep safety valve on gas valve open. So, pilot light flame going out, heaving home owner constantly running out of hot water. Home owner misdiagnoses the problem. He figures that when the dryer is operating, the make-up air is coming down the water heater flue and blowing the pilot light out. So, he opens the flue vent to allow make-up air to come in through the fire place instead.

Tony Palermo wrote:

a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Seems wasteful to me.

I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.

On Dec 26, 12:17*pm, Jim wrote:
Tony Palermo wrote:
a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Seems wasteful to me.

I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.

Jim,

I think you have figured it out perfectly. Damper opened if pilot on,
and yes, it does waste some energy.

Jim wrote in :

Tony Palermo wrote:

a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!

That's what a pilot light is FOR.

So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.

No. Pilot lights use an insignificant amount of gas, and hence produce an insignificant
amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Not really.


Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?

Depends on the appliance. There's not much point in keeping a pilot on all the time on a
furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.

Seems wasteful to me.

You pay for convenience.


I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.

So take the clamp off, and open the damper when you light the fireplace and close it after
the fire is COMPLETELY out.

On 12/26/2012 12:45 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 26, 12:17 pm, wrote:
Tony Palermo wrote:
a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.

What good would it do if it weren't on????? You go light the pilot,
then use it to light the furnace/water heater/oven from that? In that
case, may as well just go manual.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Well, it's not actually a waste; it's performing a service.

Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Seems wasteful to me.

See above--it's not a pilot light if it isn't lit.

And, to cut down on that usage as energy costs have gone up is why the
switch to piezo-electric starters instead of pilots...

--

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:54:44 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Jim wrote in :

Tony Palermo wrote:

a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

Nonsense. There are vent-free gas logs. No clip at all, though I wish
there were one.

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!

That's what a pilot light is FOR.

So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.

No. Pilot lights use an insignificant amount of gas, and hence produce an insignificant
amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Not really.

The pilot light doesn't but keeping the damper open will.

Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?

Depends on the appliance. There's not much point in keeping a pilot on all the time on a
furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.

Or gas fireplace. ;-)

Seems wasteful to me.

You pay for convenience.


I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.

So take the clamp off, and open the damper when you light the fireplace and close it after
the fire is COMPLETELY out.

On 12/26/2012 10:54 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in :

Tony Palermo wrote:

a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!

That's what a pilot light is FOR.

So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.

No. Pilot lights use an insignificant amount of gas, and hence produce an insignificant
amount of fumes. There is NO danger to human health from the exhaust of a pilot light.

In a perfect world, I think you're right. Building codes allow for a
less than
perfect world.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Not really.


Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?

Depends on the appliance. There's not much point in keeping a pilot on all the time on a
furnace or gas fireplace. On the other hand, imagine what a PITA it would be if you had to
relight the pilot light every time you wanted to use your water heater, clothes dryer, or stove.

Seems wasteful to me.

My experience has been different. I don't have records going back that far,
but I've been turning my furnace pilot light off during the summer for
decades.
It saved enough to be well worth the effort.

You pay for convenience.


I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.

So take the clamp off, and open the damper when you light the fireplace and close it after
the fire is COMPLETELY out.

Building codes allow for a less than perfect world.
Like when you forget to open the damper.
Or when you're sure you left it open, but the wife closed it.
Or when you have a visitor.
Or when the kids get cold and you're not around.
or...or...or

My chimney is capped, but there's also a board over the front of the
fireplace.
And my air conditioner condenser is wrapped, but there's a sticker
on the breaker that says, "don't turn this on before you uncover the
compressor."

Not everybody is perfect...

External Angst:

Been up in your attic lately? If you live north of DC anywhere in the country you should have at least 12-18" of fiberglass insulation in the floor of that attic. The door or stair/hatch into that attic should also be weatherstripped.

Heat rises - stop it in it's tracks!

On 12/26/2012 12:17 PM, Jim wrote:
Tony Palermo wrote:

a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the chimney.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Seems wasteful to me.

I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.


A standing pilot does a couple of things. It can keep things warm which
helps prevent corrosion and it tends to drive away any insects that may
want to take up residence in the flue and burners. It's also simple and
reliable, the electronic ignition equipped systems are more complicated
and have more points of failure. Most folks leave the pilot burning in
cold weather when the fireplace may be used and turn the gas off in the
warmer months especially if they are using LP gas. ^_^

TDD

mike wrote:
On 12/26/2012 5:51 AM, HeyBub wrote:
. No air, or not much, can enter or leave the fireplace. And I don't
have to fuss with the damper at all. Plus, I don't have to reach
into the still smoldering embers to engage the hot damper.

Are you saying that you were in the habit of closing the damper while
the embers are still smoldering.
If so, we have discovered why the dampers are locked open...because
of you. ;-)
Glad you're still alive.

When it's time to go to bed, it's time to go to bed! On my schedule, not the
fireplaces.

I guess I could have a fire extinguisher nearby ...

Tony Palermo wrote:

"However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?"

Yes, in all older gas fired water heaters, forced air furnaces and hot water heating boilers, the pilot light is on all the time. That's why it's called a "standing pilot". I expect the same would be true for gas fired clothes dryers and gas fired fire places.

The pilot light does waste energy. Modern higher efficiency water heaters use alternate methods of igniting the gas. Some use an electronic ignition that ignites the gas with a spark, others use a filament that gets red hot to ignite the gas. Both are more energy efficient than a standing pilot.

Also, another energy conservation measure is to have flue dampers that close when the water heater stops firing. That's because without a flue damper, the hot water in a gas fired water heater drives a convective current of warm air up your chimney 24/7. A similar thing happens in gas fired sectional boilers and gas fired forced air furnaces after they stop firing. You have hot metal in the boiler or furnace that heats the surrounding air, and causes it to convect up the chimney until the boiler or furnace cools down. All these inefficiencies were considered "minor" years ago when fuel was cheap and the term "energy efficiency" hadn't yet been coined. Now we struggle to salvage every last BTU that comes out of that burning fuel. How times change.

PS: Watching an electric fire place show the same flame pattern over and over and over again is only one small step away from staring at a blank wall.

COULD?

How about ABSOLUTELY SHOULD?

On 12/26/2012 2:16 PM, HeyBub wrote:
mike wrote:
On 12/26/2012 5:51 AM, HeyBub wrote:
. No air, or not much, can enter or leave the fireplace. And I don't
have to fuss with the damper at all. Plus, I don't have to reach
into the still smoldering embers to engage the hot damper.

Are you saying that you were in the habit of closing the damper while
the embers are still smoldering.
If so, we have discovered why the dampers are locked open...because
of you. ;-)
Glad you're still alive.

When it's time to go to bed, it's time to go to bed! On my schedule, not the
fireplaces.

I guess I could have a fire extinguisher nearby ...


Can't hurt, but the thing you need most is a CO detector.

On 12/26/2012 1:47 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/26/2012 12:17 PM, Jim wrote:
Tony Palermo wrote:

a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the
chimney.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Seems wasteful to me.

I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.


A standing pilot does a couple of things. It can keep things warm which
helps prevent corrosion and it tends to drive away any insects that may
want to take up residence in the flue and burners. It's also simple and
reliable, the electronic ignition equipped systems are more complicated
and have more points of failure. Most folks leave the pilot burning in
cold weather when the fireplace may be used and turn the gas off in the
warmer months especially if they are using LP gas. ^_^

TDD
Good point. I once had a camp heater that refused to light.
Turned out there was a spider web across the spark gap.

I also had a CD burner that refused to work because of a spider
web across the lens.

Maybe I should clean house more often...

On 12/26/2012 8:26 PM, mike wrote:
On 12/26/2012 1:47 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/26/2012 12:17 PM, Jim wrote:
Tony Palermo wrote:

a damper clip is required on all fireplaces that have been equipped
with gas logs

I didn't realize the pilot light is supposed to be ALWAYS ON!
So, the damper has to be open for the pilot fumes to escape up the
chimney.

However, keeping the pilot light on all the time - doesn't that waste
a ton of energy?

Do most people keep their pilot light burning all the time?
Seems wasteful to me.

I would just open the damper when I light the fireplace if it
wasn't clamped open like it is now.


A standing pilot does a couple of things. It can keep things warm which
helps prevent corrosion and it tends to drive away any insects that may
want to take up residence in the flue and burners. It's also simple and
reliable, the electronic ignition equipped systems are more complicated
and have more points of failure. Most folks leave the pilot burning in
cold weather when the fireplace may be used and turn the gas off in the
warmer months especially if they are using LP gas. ^_^

TDD
Good point. I once had a camp heater that refused to light.
Turned out there was a spider web across the spark gap.

I also had a CD burner that refused to work because of a spider
web across the lens.

Maybe I should clean house more often...

I was working on a commercial refrigeration unit one time and found a
short circuit caused by a mouse that had crawled through an open conduit
knock out hole in the compressor's electrical junction box. The mouse
had an electrifying experience. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Most folks leave the pilot burning in cold weather
when the fireplace may be used

I've never used the fireplace before, so it was unnatural
for me to think that people keep the pilot flame on all
the time (wasting gas?).

Once I warm up to the idea of keeping the pilot flame lit
all the time, then it becomes obvious why you'd want the
damper to be locked open all the time.

But, if that's the case that the pilot is supposed to always
be lit, then why bother with the electronic snapper to light
the pilot in the first place?

You could use a flame to light the pilot if it's just a one-time deal.

On 12-25-2012 23:42, mike wrote:
On 12/25/2012 8:30 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 12-25-2012 22:27, mike wrote:
Anybody who suggests it's OK to close vents based on the
little information you've provided is being irresponsible.

If he suggested closing them while _using_ the fireplace, I'd be very
concerned. But I find it hard to imagine a significant hazard from
closing the damper on a fireplace NOT in use.

Closing the damper on a fireplace not in use restricts air flow into
the space.

I haven't had a fire since I sealed the place, but based
on the pressure measurements, I'm certain that if
I unblocked the chimney and turned
on the kitchen exhaust fan, it'd suck smoke down the chimney.

How is there going to be any smoke in the chimney of a fireplace that is
not in use? And how can what happens when you open a damper prove that
closing the damper may be dangerous?

Like I said...closing a damper is not a problem...until it is.
Where death is involved, you wanna be very sure.


--
Wes Groleau

¡Qué quiero realmente hacer es comer un perrito caliente!
ç§�ã�Œå®Ÿéš›ã�«ã�—ã�Ÿã�„ã�¨æ€�ã�†ä½•ã‚’ホットム‰ãƒƒã‚°ã‚’食ã�¹ã‚‹ã�“ã�¨ã�§ã�‚ã‚‹!
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.org/WWW?itemid=463

On 12/26/2012 8:46 PM, Jim wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

Most folks leave the pilot burning in cold weather
when the fireplace may be used

I've never used the fireplace before, so it was unnatural
for me to think that people keep the pilot flame on all
the time (wasting gas?).

Once I warm up to the idea of keeping the pilot flame lit
all the time, then it becomes obvious why you'd want the
damper to be locked open all the time.

But, if that's the case that the pilot is supposed to always
be lit, then why bother with the electronic snapper to light
the pilot in the first place?

You could use a flame to light the pilot if it's just a one-time deal.

The snapper was offered as a solution for pilot being blown out
in outside windy conditions.

You can use an automatic snapper instead of a pilot light to light
the burner.
Newer units typically use an electric heater that gets hot enough to
light the gas. Neither are particularly practical for a fireplace
insert without easy access to power.

The cost of running a pilot is not zero.
And one could argue that at least some of the heat from an
inside pilot ends up in the living space.

On 12-26-2012 21:26, mike wrote:
Good point. I once had a camp heater that refused to light.
Turned out there was a spider web across the spark gap.

I also had a CD burner that refused to work because of a spider
web across the lens.

Maybe I should clean house more often...

Maybe you should put a "web-free zone" sign on your front door.

--
Wes Groleau

Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, and cut with an axe.

On 12/26/2012 9:03 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:


How is there going to be any smoke in the chimney of a fireplace that is
not in use? And how can what happens when you open a damper prove that
closing the damper may be dangerous?

There's been a lot of conjecture and snippage in this thread.
Suggest you go back to the beginning and read it all.

About the only FACT we know is the current configuration of the
house hasn't killed the current resident yet.

I can tell you that in MY house, based on differential pressure
and infiltration measurements, I would not consider building a fire
without opening a window somewhere. And if someone turned on the
range hood, the bathroom fan or the clothes dryer there'd be smoke
everywhere.

As a practical matter, a typical house that met code when built
and hadn't been changed, probably has a lot of slack.
You could probably close vents with impunity up until the point where
that unfortunate confluence of conditions set the place on fire or killed
your kids while they slept.
Your house, your kids, your choice.

My choice was to seal the place up tight, build a heat-recovery
ventilator and never build a fire again.

Like I said...closing a damper is not a problem...until it is.
Where death is involved, you wanna be very sure.

hr(bob) wrote:

Damper opened if pilot on,
and yes, it does waste some energy.

I googled for "how much energy does a pilot light waste" and found
the Strait Dope article which said it was 15 cents to 30 cents a day:
"How much per day does it cost to run pilot lights?"
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...ad.php?t=67954

This article said $10 a month for the pilot flame:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...523314242.html

Yet, Wikipedia says half the energy used is wasted through the pilot
flame:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_light

Doesn't add up ...

hr(bob) wrote:

yes, it does waste some energy.

This physics site says it costs about $200/year for a pilot light.
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/...ghts-are-evil/