I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

"Doug" wrote in message
...
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

If you want to do it simple, the GFI outlet should have a test button on it.
Press that button, it should trip the GFI. You will not have any power at
that outlet. Then go to the other outlets and see if you have power there.
Plug in a lamp or radio or any small device to check for power. When you
have found outlets that do not work, go back to the GFI outlet and press the
reset button. That will turn the power back on. Go to the other outlets
and power should also be restored there.

Of the garage door opener is in the cealing of the garage, I doubt it is
hooked to the GFI as you want to get the door open if that is where the
opener is plugged in. Same as you do not hook a GFI to a refrigerator.
Those things can trip for no good reason and all the food will go bad.

A GFI outlet or breaker if in the main box are to prortect you. In simple
terms it senses a current differance between the hot and neutral wires. All
the curent goes out of one hole in the outlet and should come back in the
other hole. If for some reason some of the current goes out of one hole,
but say there is a short from that wire to the metal case of something you
have in your hand (say electric weed eater). Some of the current will go
through you and to the earth and not return to the other wire. If enough
goes this path, you will get electricuted. The ammount is less than it
takes to light up a 10 watt lightbulb. If working correctly, the GFI will
open up the circuit before the current will cause you any harm. Also if an
outside outlet gets wet, it can trip the GFI if it has one.

A surge protected outlet will not do anything to protect you. They are made
to protect electronic devices from over voltage. Say during a thunder
storm, lightning hits some electrical wires down the road , a high voltage
may be developed and comes into your house. The surge protector is to send
this voltage to the ground wire and protect the electronic devices in your
house. They are not big enough to protect extreanly large surges if say
lightning hits the pole outside your house.

Very shout version. GFI protects you, surge protector protects equipment
from over voltage.

There is some more to that above, but this is the simple version that should
get the meaning across.

1) Push the test button on the GFCI outlet. When the outlet clicks, go plug
in something to the "suspect" outlet, see if it's live or dead. If it's
dead, it's on the same circuit.

2) surge protected is what computers need. If there is too high voltage,
like lightning near by, it trips off. Protects the computer from being fried
or burnt up. GFCI means if some power is leaking like someone getting a
shock, it trips off. Protects people from being electrocuted.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug" wrote in message
...
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:04:36 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Doug" wrote in message
.. .
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

If you want to do it simple, the GFI outlet should have a test button on it.
Press that button, it should trip the GFI. You will not have any power at
that outlet. Then go to the other outlets and see if you have power there.
Plug in a lamp or radio or any small device to check for power. When you
have found outlets that do not work, go back to the GFI outlet and press the
reset button. That will turn the power back on. Go to the other outlets
and power should also be restored there.

Of the garage door opener is in the cealing of the garage, I doubt it is
hooked to the GFI as you want to get the door open if that is where the
opener is plugged in. Same as you do not hook a GFI to a refrigerator.
Those things can trip for no good reason and all the food will go bad.

A GFI outlet or breaker if in the main box are to prortect you. In simple
terms it senses a current differance between the hot and neutral wires. All
the curent goes out of one hole in the outlet and should come back in the
other hole. If for some reason some of the current goes out of one hole,
but say there is a short from that wire to the metal case of something you
have in your hand (say electric weed eater). Some of the current will go
through you and to the earth and not return to the other wire. If enough
goes this path, you will get electricuted. The ammount is less than it
takes to light up a 10 watt lightbulb. If working correctly, the GFI will
open up the circuit before the current will cause you any harm. Also if an
outside outlet gets wet, it can trip the GFI if it has one.

A surge protected outlet will not do anything to protect you. They are made
to protect electronic devices from over voltage. Say during a thunder
storm, lightning hits some electrical wires down the road , a high voltage
may be developed and comes into your house. The surge protector is to send
this voltage to the ground wire and protect the electronic devices in your
house. They are not big enough to protect extreanly large surges if say
lightning hits the pole outside your house.

Very shout version. GFI protects you, surge protector protects equipment
from over voltage.

There is some more to that above, but this is the simple version that should
get the meaning across.




Great Ralph, that explains it well. Why didn't I think of the switch
to trip the GFI .... guess it shows my electrical knowledge
Thanks !!

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:02:32 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

1) Push the test button on the GFCI outlet. When the outlet clicks, go plug
in something to the "suspect" outlet, see if it's live or dead. If it's
dead, it's on the same circuit.

2) surge protected is what computers need. If there is too high voltage,
like lightning near by, it trips off. Protects the computer from being fried
or burnt up. GFCI means if some power is leaking like someone getting a
shock, it trips off. Protects people from being electrocuted.

Christopher A. Young


Thanks Chris. I think I got it !!!

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Doug" wrote in message
...
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

If you want to do it simple, the GFI outlet should have a test button
on it. Press that button, it should trip the GFI. You will not have
any power at that outlet. Then go to the other outlets and see if you
have power there. Plug in a lamp or radio or any small device to check
for power. When you have found outlets that do not work, go back to
the GFI outlet and press the reset button. That will turn the power
back on. Go to the other outlets and power should also be restored
there.

Of the garage door opener is in the cealing of the garage, I doubt it
is hooked to the GFI as you want to get the door open if that is where
the opener is plugged in. Same as you do not hook a GFI to a
refrigerator. Those things can trip for no good reason and all the
food will go bad.

A GFI outlet or breaker if in the main box are to prortect you. In
simple terms it senses a current differance between the hot and
neutral wires. All the curent goes out of one hole in the outlet and
should come back in the other hole. If for some reason some of the
current goes out of one hole, but say there is a short from that wire
to the metal case of something you have in your hand (say electric
weed eater). Some of the current will go through you and to the earth
and not return to the other wire. If enough goes this path, you will
get electricuted. The ammount is less than it takes to light up a 10
watt lightbulb. If working correctly, the GFI will open up the
circuit before the current will cause you any harm. Also if an
outside outlet gets wet, it can trip the GFI if it has one.

A surge protected outlet will not do anything to protect you. They
are made to protect electronic devices from over voltage. Say during
a thunder storm, lightning hits some electrical wires down the road ,
a high voltage may be developed and comes into your house. The surge
protector is to send this voltage to the ground wire and protect the
electronic devices in your house. They are not big enough to protect
extreanly large surges if say lightning hits the pole outside your
house.

Very shout version. GFI protects you, surge protector protects
equipment from over voltage.

There is some more to that above, but this is the simple version that
should get the meaning across.





Ralph: Very well put and in simple terms without being a long winded
"lemme show you everything I know about electricity".

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:
1) Push the test button on the GFCI outlet. When the outlet clicks, go plug
in something to the "suspect" outlet, see if it's live or dead. If it's
dead, it's on the same circuit.

2) surge protected is what computers need. If there is too high voltage,
like lightning near by, it trips off. Protects the computer from being fried
or burnt up. GFCI means if some power is leaking like someone getting a
shock, it trips off. Protects people from being electrocuted.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Doug" wrote in message
...
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

If it was me, I'd plug something into the suspect outlet before I tripped
the GFCI to ensure that it actually worked at the time.

If the device goes off when I tripped the GFCI I'd know right away and
could reset the GFCI without walking back and forth.

In article ,
Doug wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

Every person has "I didn't know that" moments. Some kind people explain,
others criticize. I hope to be remembered as nice.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug" wrote in message
...

Thanks Chris. I think I got it !!!

Radio on full volume. "work from here".

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

If it was me, I'd plug something into the suspect outlet before I tripped
the GFCI to ensure that it actually worked at the time.

If the device goes off when I tripped the GFCI I'd know right away and
could reset the GFCI without walking back and forth.

On Dec 13, 8:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Doug * wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? * Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

You are the dickwad. The previous answers have been absolutely on the
mark and you should be ashamed for your bad language and een worse
comments themselves.

On Dec 13, 11:54*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Dec 13, 8:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*Doug * wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? * Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

You are the dickwad. *The previous answers have been absolutely on the
mark and you should be ashamed for your bad language and een worse
comments themselves.



Maybe one day he'll pick up a damaged extension cord
on one of those outlets without a GFCI and get his just reward.

Perhaps he has some statistics to back up his claim?

In article
,
" wrote:

On Dec 13, 11:54*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Dec 13, 8:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*Doug * wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? * Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

You are the dickwad. *The previous answers have been absolutely on the
mark and you should be ashamed for your bad language and een worse
comments themselves.



Maybe one day he'll pick up a damaged extension cord
on one of those outlets without a GFCI and get his just reward.

Perhaps he has some statistics to back up his claim?

I looked up those statistics for y'all a few years ago. More people die
by falling down on level ground than are electrocuted in their homes.

And almost all of the people who *are* electrocuted in their homes, die
while working on 240 volt wiring. Note the "240 volts" and the fact
they're actively doing wiring repairs when electrocuted.

It is almost impossible to electrocute yourself accidentally with 120
volts. Mythbusters couldn't even kill a crash test dummy by throwing a
hair dryer or radio into the bathtub.

You can be damn sure that nobody lusted after a GFI until some shyster
invented the gadget and hyped the **** out of the horrible imaginary
dangers of electricity.

In article
,
"hr(bob) " wrote:

On Dec 13, 8:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Doug * wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? * Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

You are the dickwad. The previous answers have been absolutely on the
mark and you should be ashamed for your bad language and een worse
comments themselves.

Sorry, I'm not ashamed on either count. **** **** **** **** ****. ****.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

I hope to be remembered as nice.


On a.h.r., where you act like an ass with every post by top-posting?
Unlikely.

On Dec 14, 1:03*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,





" wrote:
On Dec 13, 11:54*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Dec 13, 8:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*Doug * wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? * Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

You are the dickwad. *The previous answers have been absolutely on the
mark and you should be ashamed for your bad language and een worse
comments themselves.

Maybe one day he'll pick up a damaged extension cord
on one of those outlets without a GFCI and get his just reward.

Perhaps he has some statistics to back up his claim?

I looked up those statistics for y'all a few years ago. More people die
by falling down on level ground than are electrocuted in their homes.

And almost all of the people who *are* electrocuted in their homes, die
while working on 240 volt wiring. Note the "240 volts" and the fact
they're actively doing wiring repairs when electrocuted.

It is almost impossible to electrocute yourself accidentally with 120
volts.

If you think there is a big difference in the electrocution risk
of 240V, versus 120V, maybe you can offer some insight
into how that is so?

To electrocute yourself with 240V, while working on say
an oven or water heater, you'd have to put yourself
across both hots at the same time. Now in my world, that
seems extremely unlikely. Far more likely you're touching
the grounded water tank or oven and touch ONE of the hots.
Or standing on a damp concrete floor and contacting one
hot.

So, please explain how folks typically manage to come
across both hots to receive 240V......







Mythbusters couldn't even kill a crash test dummy by throwing a
hair dryer or radio into the bathtub.

You can be damn sure that nobody lusted after a GFI until some shyster
invented the gadget and hyped the **** out of the horrible imaginary
dangers of electricity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Stormin Mormon has brought this to us :
Every person has "I didn't know that" moments. Some kind people explain,
others criticize. I hope to be remembered as nice.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Doug" wrote in message
...

Thanks Chris. I think I got it !!!

You would be remembered even better if you used a proper usenet browser
and bottom posted as nearly everyone else does.

I suppose you drive on the left of the road too, just to be different.

PS. most of your answers are good sense.

--
John G

Smitty Two brought next idea :
In article
,
" wrote:

On Dec 13, 11:54*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Dec 13, 8:41*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*Doug * wrote:
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?
Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? * Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

You are the dickwad. *The previous answers have been absolutely on the
mark and you should be ashamed for your bad language and een worse
comments themselves.



Maybe one day he'll pick up a damaged extension cord
on one of those outlets without a GFCI and get his just reward.

Perhaps he has some statistics to back up his claim?

I looked up those statistics for y'all a few years ago. More people die
by falling down on level ground than are electrocuted in their homes.

And almost all of the people who *are* electrocuted in their homes, die
while working on 240 volt wiring. Note the "240 volts" and the fact
they're actively doing wiring repairs when electrocuted.

It is almost impossible to electrocute yourself accidentally with 120
volts. Mythbusters couldn't even kill a crash test dummy by throwing a
hair dryer or radio into the bathtub.

You can be damn sure that nobody lusted after a GFI until some shyster
invented the gadget and hyped the **** out of the horrible imaginary
dangers of electricity.

All US domestic wiring is only 120 volts above ground so who gets
electrocuted?

--
John G

Doug wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.


NOT A SERIOUS SUGGESTION
========================

If you are brave:

Wire a resistor with a value about 3000 ohms between line/live and
ground/earth and plug it in.

Assuming this is a 110-120V outlet and the GFCI is set at 30mA this should
cause the GFCI to trip out (it would cause a current imbalance of about 35mA
RMS which is a little more than a 30mA GFCI would be looking for. Adjust
resistor if your GFCI is differently rated.

If there's no GFCI and the resistor has a power rating less than about 3-4W
it's likely to act like a fuse and explode.

This is NOT an entirely serious proposition unless you are careful but it
would make a fairly valid test and show that the GFCI was tripping at the
right amount of current imbalance.

I would not be surprised if there was a ready made plug version (safely
designed) that you could buy.

In fact:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sperry-GFI6302-GFCI-Outlet-
Tester-/290770585838#vi-content

Looks like a variation on the classic neon based socket-wiring verifier.
Only $18. Worth having I would say - GFCIs (or RCDs as we Brits call them)
are prone to failure and sticking. At the very least, push the test button a
couple of times a year as routing maintenance.

Of course, it does not tell you that your GFCI is tripping in the required
time - for that you need a fancy tester.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
Doug wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

Here's some easy words: All that crap is just a con job. Some dickwad
invented the stuff, then bought some lawmakers. You flat out don't need
any of that crap. You don't even need the damn ground pin anymore, since
everything is plastic and double insulated.

Everything?

Plenty of grounded (Class I) appliances in europe - less than there used to
be mind, but still quite a lot - and lots of old legacy appliances.

RCDs/GFCIs play a very important role in safety. Even with double insulated
appliances it's still possible for a fault to expose someone to live mains -
whilst they are standing on a concrete floor or leaning against a masonry
wall or touching metal pipework.

The IET who write the wiring regulations for the UK now manadate *for
domestic wiring* that all sockets[1] and all wiring[2] be RCD protected by a
30mA/40mS device. Given harmonisation that will be the case throughout the
EU. This is a further increase over the previous edition. Those guys
generally know what they are doing.

[1] With excpetions for certain sockets allowed, eg medical apparatus,
fridges and freezers - but such sockets must be marked as unprotected

[2] Unless wiring is buried 2" under the wall surface or mechanically
protected with metal trunking, metal conduit or is an armoured cable
construction. Too many dipweeds who will bang picture hooks in willy
nilly...


What's the NEC's
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

wrote:


Maybe one day he'll pick up a damaged extension cord
on one of those outlets without a GFCI and get his just reward.

Good point - a lawnmower that just chopped it's own lead is one of the more
common scenarios - especially as the user will invariably pick it up whilst
standing on damp grass!

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

wrote:

If you think there is a big difference in the electrocution risk
of 240V, versus 120V, maybe you can offer some insight
into how that is so?

The british regulations do not consider anything over 50V DC to be "safe" -
even then, Extra Low Voltage wiring in bathrooms (even at 12V) has to be
seperated from ground as an extra precation.

We have 100-120V [1] in the same band as 220-240V and both systems have to
meet the same wiring standards.

[1] Not common but 110V tools exist for building site usage - albeit wired
as 55-ground-55 which does increase the safety another notch.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

Tim Watts wrote:

What's the NEC's
view on this?


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

John G wrote:


All US domestic wiring is only 120 volts above ground so who gets
electrocuted?

Sidetrack

I have wondered: if US 240V outlets are wired as 120-0-120 where 0=ground
how are they fused? Do you have a double pole breaker at the distribution
board? How did they do it with wire fuses?

In the ancient days of british wiring, we sometimes had neutral fuses as
well as live fuses. Until someone realised that was a crap idea - this is
where neutral is bonded to ground at various points in the system.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

On Dec 14, 4:27*am, Tim Watts wrote:
John G wrote:
All US domestic wiring is only 120 volts above ground so who gets
electrocuted?

Sidetrack

I have wondered: if US 240V outlets are wired as 120-0-120 where 0=ground
how are they fused? Do you have a double pole breaker at the distribution
board?

Yes, that is correct.

How did they do it with wire fuses?

Same as with a breaker, one fuse in each leg.

On Dec 14, 4:09*am, Tim Watts wrote:
Doug wrote:
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? * Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
please grin.

NOT A SERIOUS SUGGESTION
========================

If you are brave:

Wire a resistor with a value about 3000 ohms between line/live and
ground/earth and plug it in.

Assuming this is a 110-120V outlet and the GFCI is set at 30mA this should
cause the GFCI to trip out (it would cause a current imbalance of about 35mA
RMS which is a little more than a 30mA GFCI would be looking for. Adjust
resistor if your GFCI is differently rated.

If there's no GFCI and the resistor has a power rating less than about 3-4W
it's likely to act like a fuse and explode.

This is NOT an entirely serious proposition unless you are careful but it
would make a fairly valid test and show that the GFCI was tripping at the
right amount of current imbalance.

I would not be surprised if there was a ready made plug version (safely
designed) that you could buy.


You could do that. Or you could just push the TEST button
that every GFCI has, which does the same thing. Actually,
I think the required trip current that it tests to is a lot less
than the 30ma, but otherwise it's the same thing.

With the double breaker, if one leg over amps, it
shuts down both power legs. How does one
accomplish that with fuses? Could be dangerous
if one fuse goes. "applicance doesn't work, so
the power MUST be off! Right?"

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...

I have wondered: if US 240V outlets are wired as 120-0-120 where 0=ground
how are they fused? Do you have a double pole breaker at the distribution
board?

Yes, that is correct.

How did they do it with wire fuses?

Same as with a breaker, one fuse in each leg.

DAGS on GFCI tester?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&t....1.eCnx9GrH_oo

Now sold in stores. Batteries not included.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


I would not be surprised if there was a ready made plug version (safely
designed) that you could buy.

In article
,
" wrote:



If you think there is a big difference in the electrocution risk
of 240V, versus 120V, maybe you can offer some insight
into how that is so?

To electrocute yourself with 240V, while working on say
an oven or water heater, you'd have to put yourself
across both hots at the same time. Now in my world, that
seems extremely unlikely. Far more likely you're touching
the grounded water tank or oven and touch ONE of the hots.
Or standing on a damp concrete floor and contacting one
hot.

So, please explain how folks typically manage to come
across both hots to receive 240V......




You raise a good point, and I don't know the answer. But I stand by my
claims that 120 VAC household wiring, and the things that are powered by
it, are extraordinarily unlikely to kill you.

See page 8 here, for a breakdown of the fewer than 50 per year
electrocutions at home:

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foi...trocutions.pdf


And here's a fun story about how you could become the light bulb and die
while the GFCI hums merrily along.


http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2010/05...electrocution/

I invite any a.h.r. participant to uncover a cause of death that is as
minuscule as electrocution at home, that has had as many billions poured
into saving 2 or 3 lives, as the GFCI racket.

Doug wrote:
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?


Turn off the GFI circuit breaker(s). Is the outlet still hot? If
protected, it should not be.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Stormin Mormon wrote:

With the double breaker, if one leg over amps, it
shuts down both power legs. How does one
accomplish that with fuses? Could be dangerous
if one fuse goes. "applicance doesn't work, so
the power MUST be off! Right?"

Yes - a similar problem was encountered in the UK when in the very old days
(sometime WWII-ish and before) they sometimes had "neutral" fuses.

(In the UK, the neutral leg is bonded to ground at various locations in the
supply network so there is no need to be trying to fuse it)

Only thing is, this time you get a cold appliance energised at 240V!!

Similar thing happened to my great auntie. She had one of those radiant
electric bar fires with an open wound bar (no quartz sleeving), nice wide
gaps in the guard wires and a switch, which was single pole. Someone had
wire Live and Neutral the wrong way in the plug, she turned it off at the
fire switch and proceeded to hoover the element bar and reflector with a
hoover with a metal pipe and nozzel.

Luckily, the earthing was good to the fire and that earthed the hoover pipe
when it touched the bar. Bit of a bang though - gave her a scare...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

On 2012-12-13, Doug wrote:
I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

I don't know if there is any way to trip a GFI socket, but perhaps
someone here can help with that. I now know many household sockets
can be wired in series to a GFI socket.

I jes recently tripped our kitchen GFI circuit, with an old waffle
iron, from a socket I had no idea was GFI protected. It took out half
the sockets in our modular home, including the bathroom and front
room. I thought it was a circuit breaker and went outside to reset
it, but found no circuit breakers tripped. I came back inside and
began checking other sockets with a 3 LED socket tester and that's how
I learned how extensive the blackout was. I finally checked another
kitchen socket, the one which had the GFI reset thingie, but not the
socket I was using when the GFI blew. I reset the GFI and all those
dead sockets were re-energized. Who knew!? Live and learn.

nb

On 12/14/2012 3:09 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
Doug wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

Also, is there a difference between a GFI outlet and surge protected
outlet ? Keep in mind, I'm far from a electrical guru so easy words
pleasegrin.


NOT A SERIOUS SUGGESTION
========================

If you are brave:

Wire a resistor with a value about 3000 ohms between line/live and
ground/earth and plug it in.

Assuming this is a 110-120V outlet and the GFCI is set at 30mA this should
cause the GFCI to trip out (it would cause a current imbalance of about 35mA
RMS which is a little more than a 30mA GFCI would be looking for. Adjust
resistor if your GFCI is differently rated.

If there's no GFCI and the resistor has a power rating less than about 3-4W
it's likely to act like a fuse and explode.

This is NOT an entirely serious proposition unless you are careful but it
would make a fairly valid test and show that the GFCI was tripping at the
right amount of current imbalance.

I would not be surprised if there was a ready made plug version (safely
designed) that you could buy.

In fact:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sperry-GFI6302-GFCI-Outlet-
Tester-/290770585838#vi-content

Looks like a variation on the classic neon based socket-wiring verifier.
Only $18. Worth having I would say - GFCIs (or RCDs as we Brits call them)
are prone to failure and sticking. At the very least, push the test button a
couple of times a year as routing maintenance.

Of course, it does not tell you that your GFCI is tripping in the required
time - for that you need a fancy tester.

GFCIs are supposed to be tested periodically. I usually test them when I
will be depending on one for protection. The built-in test is the same
as your resistor test above - a resistor is connected from the
downstream hot to the upstream neutral (or vice-versa?). The test works
even when there is no ground at the GFCI.

This side the pond GFCIs operate at 5mA (4-6).
If I remember right, there are some ground fault detectors for equipment
that operate at 30mA.

Would think you would get a nasty shock at 25mA with no RCD trip.

I certainly don't want to chase you away, but a good usenet group for
the UK (which you may have discovered)is
uk.d-i-y
It is astonishing how different the electrical is in the US and UK -
like ring circuits, and RCD mains.

On Dec 14, 11:27*am, notbob wrote:
On 2012-12-13, Doug wrote:

I believe most of my outlets are wired in one series to a GFI outlet
in my garage but I'm not sure of the outlet beside my garage door
opener. * Is there a way to tell if this outlet is also protected?

I don't know if there is any way to trip a GFI socket, but perhaps
someone here can help with that.

Just push the test button on the GFCI outlet or
breaker. That's sufficient for me that it's working
and protecting the outlets downstream from the
GFCI. Or alternatively there are simple, cheap
LED outlet plug-in testers that show if the hot/nuetral are
reversed, no ground, etc. They typically have a test
button that you can press that will trip the GFCI if
it's working.

Per Smitty Two:
It is almost impossible to electrocute yourself accidentally with 120
volts. Mythbusters couldn't even kill a crash test dummy by throwing a
hair dryer or radio into the bathtub.

When I was an electronics tech in the military, the story they
told us was that the most effective way to electrocute ones' self
was to establish a path through the chest cavity - as in grasping
a grounded beam or something for support with one hand while
reaching into someplace with hot wires with another.

This would seem to differ significantly from the MythBusters
scenario.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Dec 14, 3:09*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Per Smitty Two:

It is almost impossible to electrocute yourself accidentally with 120
volts. Mythbusters couldn't even kill a crash test dummy by throwing a
hair dryer or radio into the bathtub.

When I was an electronics tech in the military, the story they
told us was that the most effective way to electrocute ones' self
was to establish a path through the chest cavity - as in grasping
a grounded beam or something for support with one hand while
reaching into someplace with hot wires with another.

This would seem to differ significantly from the MythBusters
scenario.
--
Pete Cresswell

Agree. Having a hair dryer fall into the bathtub while you're
in it is a lot different than say standing in wet shoes, on the
ground and grabbing a conductor. Shortly after I graduated
high school, one of the teachers there took the top part of
a shop vac and attempted to use it to remove water from
a pool. He was electrocuted while holding it. Classic
example of a death that would have been prevented by a
GFCI.

Do you mean "prevented by a functioning brain"?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message news:aabc41d7-18a3-4427-9aa0-

Shortly after I graduated
high school, one of the teachers there took the top part of
a shop vac and attempted to use it to remove water from
a pool. He was electrocuted while holding it. Classic
example of a death that would have been prevented by a
GFCI.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:23:43 -0600, Doug
wrote:

Great Ralph, that explains it well. Why didn't I think of the switch
to trip the GFI .... guess it shows my electrical knowledge
Thanks !!

And if those outlets are in a different room, a plug in radio with the
volume turned up is an easy way to identify them.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:08:04 +1100, John G
wrote:

Stormin Mormon has brought this to us :
Every person has "I didn't know that" moments. Some kind people explain,
others criticize. I hope to be remembered as nice.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Doug" wrote in message
...

Thanks Chris. I think I got it !!!

You would be remembered even better if you used a proper usenet browser
and bottom posted as nearly everyone else does.

I suppose you drive on the left of the road too, just to be different.

PS. most of your answers are good sense.

And get rid of the religious propaganda at the bottom of posts.
No one here needs to be saved by you. We all have churches in our towns
and cities if we want them.

Hell, I could do the same damn thing, for example lets say....

John O. Doe
Find Jesus and His Momma Mary
St Pauls Catholic Church
www.stpaulscatholicchurch.org

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Per Smitty Two:
It is almost impossible to electrocute yourself accidentally with 120
volts. Mythbusters couldn't even kill a crash test dummy by throwing a
hair dryer or radio into the bathtub.

When I was an electronics tech in the military, the story they
told us was that the most effective way to electrocute ones' self
was to establish a path through the chest cavity - as in grasping
a grounded beam or something for support with one hand while
reaching into someplace with hot wires with another.

Me! Me! Me! I did that!

I got hung up on a power supply trainer unit while in ET school in the USCG
and put 400VDC across my chest. 35 years later I can still see the burn
scars on my hands. Lucky for me somebody pulled the plugged in time.

Two guys quit ET school that day after seeing me get hung up. I went on to
work on transmitters with 25K VDC power supplies. Go figure.


This would seem to differ significantly from the MythBusters
scenario.