To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.


--
Steven L.

Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.


Hi,
Roll of duct tape?

On Nov 26, 9:58 am, Tony Hwang wrote:
Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

Hi,
Roll of duct tape?



Tony, you are a genius !!!!

Metal single use cooking pan from Dollar Tree?
Trim to shape with bandage shears. (sized much
larger than the hole). Secure to the wall with
drywall screws, and washers.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Steven L." wrote in message
...
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.


--
Steven L.

I thought mousies would chew through duct
tape? And, it leaves sticky residue on the wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Robert" wrote in message
...

Hi,
Roll of duct tape?



Tony, you are a genius !!!!

On Nov 26, 8:41*am, "Steven L." wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. *The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? *I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

--
Steven L.

I used a sheet of thick clear plastic that came with something and
used shipping tape to adhere everwhere. Left about two weeks before
could continue. Even survived some strong winds. [this was a hole
through the outside wall as I moved the Stove Top Vent up 8 inches.]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:41:44 -0500, "Steven L."
wrote:

To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

I have seen sheet rock guys do this many times under the sink. They
cut a stud (or two) just a couple of inches longer than the opening to
use it for the stud inside the wall. They then screw a piece of sheet
rock larger than the opening for the cover.

On Monday, November 26, 2012 10:41:59 AM UTC-5, Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break

the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is

about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.



Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover

that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming

through there tonight.





--

Steven L.

Aluminum foil left over from your old AFDB. That way they cannot chew through it.

Metspitzer writes:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:41:44 -0500, "Steven L."
wrote:

To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

I have seen sheet rock guys do this many times under the sink. They
cut a stud (or two) just a couple of inches longer than the opening to
use it for the stud inside the wall. They then screw a piece of sheet
rock larger than the opening for the cover.

I'm not a rock guy but I've done that kind of repair many times.
Pretty easy.

The duct tape answer is classic.

Virtually every question on this group can be answered "duct tape" or
"WD-40".

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.


This is an easy, clever way to patch a hole.

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

Oren writes:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.


This is an easy, clever way to patch a hole.

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

I like that but I'm not sure about 2 issues.

On a highly visible wall, I think the thickness of the paper
might be visible. Not an issue for under the sink.

The only support for the patch is paper and joint compound.
Pressing on that part of the wall might lead to visible cracks.
Again, not an issue under the sink.

--
Dan Espen

On Nov 26, 3:08*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.

This is an easy, clever way to patch a hole.

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

I prefer the stick inside the wall method so I don't have to worry
about the paper showing or bubbling or anything.

With the sticks and a patch all I have to mud is the gap around the
patch.

However, I do see one advantage of the "California patch": You can
use any thickness of drywall you have handy...it doesn't have to be
the same as the existing wall.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:44:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Nov 26, 3:08*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.

This is an easy, clever way to patch a hole.

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

I prefer the stick inside the wall method so I don't have to worry
about the paper showing or bubbling or anything.

With the sticks and a patch all I have to mud is the gap around the
patch.

However, I do see one advantage of the "California patch": You can
use any thickness of drywall you have handy...it doesn't have to be
the same as the existing wall.

I used the wood method numerous times. Especially on a larger patch.
A couple times I dropped the wood inside the wall. Tie a string on the
wood, If you drop it, just pull it up and hold it.

IIRC the California patch is really intended for a small patch
(8"X8"). Like Dan said, ok under the sink.

Steven L. wrote:

To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

Scrap piece of plywood?

"Steven L." wrote in message
...
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break the
wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is about 7
or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.


If you have mice/insects in your wall a hole in that wall is not your
problem.

On 11/26/2012 10:58 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:


Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.


Hi,
Roll of duct tape?

That's what I thought of too.

Is there any problem with the duct tape being near the hot water pipes?


--
Steven L.

On 11/26/2012 10:41 AM, Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

Thanks, those were all good suggestions.

I covered the hole with duct tape, but the edge of the duct tape is
abutting the hot water pipe. Could that cause a problem?



--
Steven L.

"Steven L." writes:

On 11/26/2012 10:41 AM, Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

Thanks, those were all good suggestions.

I covered the hole with duct tape, but the edge of the duct tape is
abutting the hot water pipe. Could that cause a problem?

If it does, put some WD-40 on it.

No, really, your duct tape will not burst into flames.

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:20:28 -0500, "Steven L."
wrote:

On 11/26/2012 10:41 AM, Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

Thanks, those were all good suggestions.

I covered the hole with duct tape, but the edge of the duct tape is
abutting the hot water pipe. Could that cause a problem?

Not likely. It is only temporary.

Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to
cover that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice
coming through there tonight.

Assuming the wall is sheetrock, when you get ready to repair the hole, check
"California Patch". The California patch is a technique for repairing
sheetrock by constructing a specially configured plug - of any size.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:15:51 -0600, "NotMe" wrote:


"Steven L." wrote in message
...
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break the
wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is about 7
or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.


If you have mice/insects in your wall a hole in that wall is not your
problem.


Yep. Since it looks like the OP is going to have somebody else do the
patch, he should leave it alone, or stuff some rags in it if it makes
him feel better. That'll stop bugs. Mice will chew right through
drywall anyway if you have an infestation. That a totally different
problem.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:50:22 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Assuming the wall is sheetrock, when you get ready to repair the hole, check
"California Patch". The California patch is a technique for repairing
sheetrock by constructing a specially configured plug - of any size.

The "California Patch" is not really intended for an "any size"
patch. Generally smaller repairs.

Move to the studs and secure the drywall there for larger patches.

Tony Hwang wrote in news:GkMss.13155$tm5.6642
@newsfe08.iad:



Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.


Hi,
Roll of duct tape?

Somebody is payin' attention around here :-)

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I thought mousies would chew through duct
tape? And, it leaves sticky residue on the wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Robert" wrote in message
news:79f4e2e0-105a-490c-ae6a-
...

Hi,
Roll of duct tape?



Tony, you are a genius !!!!



1) Cut an opening in something like a piece of cardboard.
2) Now duct tape over the opening.
3) Try chewing through from the sticky side.

scroll down

















Congratulations, you're dumber than a ****in' mouse.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:20:28 -0500, "Steven L."
wrote:

On 11/26/2012 10:41 AM, Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

Thanks, those were all good suggestions.

I covered the hole with duct tape, but the edge of the duct tape is
abutting the hot water pipe. Could that cause a problem?


I don't think so neither. I think I've seen video using duct tape as
a temporary solution on a split radiator hose (tho I never tried it).

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 00:51:17 +0000 (UTC), Red Green
wrote:

Roll of duct tape?

Somebody is payin' attention around here :-)

Right. Why WD-40 came into the conversation about heat from hot water,
if duct tape touched next to it.

Real mouses.... scroll down......

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I thought mousies would chew through duct
tape? And, it leaves sticky residue on the wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Robert" wrote in message
news:79f4e2e0-105a-490c-ae6a-
...

Hi,
Roll of duct tape?



Tony, you are a genius !!!!



1) Cut an opening in something like a piece of cardboard.
2) Now duct tape over the opening.
3) Try chewing through from the sticky side.

scroll down
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
Congratulations, you're dumber than a ****in' mouse.

* actually chew through duct tape.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:14:19 -0600, Doug
wrote:

I covered the hole with duct tape, but the edge of the duct tape is
abutting the hot water pipe. Could that cause a problem?


I don't think so neither. I think I've seen video using duct tape as
a temporary solution on a split radiator hose (tho I never tried it).

You can also wrap that duct tape around a muffler that has a rusted
hole in it. Cuts down on the awful loud noise.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:56:07 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:14:19 -0600, Doug
wrote:

I covered the hole with duct tape, but the edge of the duct tape is
abutting the hot water pipe. Could that cause a problem?


I don't think so neither. I think I've seen video using duct tape as
a temporary solution on a split radiator hose (tho I never tried it).

You can also wrap that duct tape around a muffler that has a rusted
hole in it. Cuts down on the awful loud noise.

Until you start the car.

Jim

Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to
cover that hole temporarily? I'm worried about insects or even mice
coming through there tonight.

Spray foam.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Nov 26, 5:17*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:50:22 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Assuming the wall is sheetrock, when you get ready to repair the hole, check
"California Patch". The California patch is a technique for repairing
sheetrock by constructing a specially configured plug - of any size.

The "California Patch" is not really intended for an *"any size"
patch. *Generally smaller repairs.

Move to the studs and secure the drywall there for larger patches.

no need to tear a hole that large. Even if you go out to the studs,
you still have the 'floating' section between.

Rather, use some 'paper' boards 1/2 inch thick by 2 to 4 inch wide.
The paper is super easy to cut to length - use a matting knife. use
four pieces to 'frame' the hole. Mark center lines along the length of
the boards, then placed arrow heads across the CL, because when in the
hole you can't see the boards anymore [when the BOARD is in the hole]
Reach inside the hole hold the board with one hand, then sheet rock
screw the boards to the inside of the hole through the surrounding
drywall. Four places, completely frame the hole. Then even a poorly
cut drywall plug will insert and fit over the frame, and screw that
into place. What you end up with is a very strong contiguous strength
drywall sheet that cannot crack out even as the wall flexes with age.
I used this technique to 'pull' into place two running sheets in the
ceiling that were causing me fits with both not lining up and thus
cracking every month.

On Nov 26, 5:25*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:20:28 -0500, "Steven L."

wrote:
On 11/26/2012 10:41 AM, Steven L. wrote:
To repair the plumbing for the kitchen sink, it was necessary to break
the wall under the kitchen sink to get at the plumbing. *The hole is
about 7 or 8 inches in diameter.

Until I can have the hole repaired permanently, what can I use to cover
that hole temporarily? *I'm worried about insects or even mice coming
through there tonight.

Thanks, those were all good suggestions.

I covered the hole with duct tape, but the edge of the duct tape is
abutting the hot water pipe. *Could that cause a problem?

Not likely. It is only temporary.

That reminds me of an old saying...

It's only temporary...unless it works.

On Nov 26, 4:26*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:44:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03





wrote:
On Nov 26, 3:08*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.

This is an easy, clever way to patch a hole.

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

I prefer the stick inside the wall method so I don't have to worry
about the paper showing or bubbling or anything.

With the sticks and a patch all I have to mud is the gap around the
patch.

However, I do see one advantage of the "California patch": *You can
use any thickness of drywall you have handy...it doesn't have to be
the same as the existing wall.

I used the wood method numerous times. *Especially on a larger patch.
A couple times I dropped the wood inside the wall. Tie a string on the
wood, *If you drop it, just pull it up and hold it.

IIRC the California patch is really intended for a small patch
(8"X8"). Like Dan said, ok under the sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Back before drywall screws were common and sheetrock was still nailed
to the studs, one variation on the "wooden strip" method was as
follows:

Put some wood glue on the face of the wooden strip and wrap a piece of
string around it before slipping it into the wall. Keeping tension on
the string to hold the wood in place, run the string through a hole in
the center of the drywall patch. Wrap the string around a pencil and
spin the pencil until it (and the patch) are flush with the wall.

Mud as much of the seams as possible and when it dries, cut the string
to remove the pencil. Stuff the string into the hole and finish
applying mud to the seams and the hole.

With the glue and the mud holding everything in place, the patch will
be secure.

These days drywall screws take the place of the glue.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Real mouses.... scroll down......

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I thought mousies would chew through duct
tape? And, it leaves sticky residue on the wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Robert" wrote in message
news:79f4e2e0-105a-490c-ae6a-
...

Hi,
Roll of duct tape?



Tony, you are a genius !!!!



1) Cut an opening in something like a piece of cardboard.
2) Now duct tape over the opening.
3) Try chewing through from the sticky side.

scroll down
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Congratulations, you're dumber than a ****in' mouse.

* actually chew through duct tape.



"That's a joke, I say, that's a joke, son."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTwnwbG9YLE

Push frayed plasterboard surface paper into the hole using any small tool then apply the filler around it.

On 11/26/2012 3:08 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.


This is an easy, clever way to patch a hole.

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

Cool! That is a good way.

But now I wonder:

Since it's a common problem to have to access plumbing underneath sinks
to make repairs, wouldn't it make sense to build in some means of access
in the first place, instead of having to chop through drywall?

Seems to me that there should be some easily removable panel down there
that you can remove to get at the plumbing and then easily fasten back
after the plumbing repair is complete.



--
Steven L.

On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 17:59:32 -0500, "Steven L."
wrote:

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

Cool! That is a good way.

But now I wonder:

Since it's a common problem to have to access plumbing underneath sinks
to make repairs, wouldn't it make sense to build in some means of access
in the first place, instead of having to chop through drywall?

Seems to me that there should be some easily removable panel down there
that you can remove to get at the plumbing and then easily fasten back
after the plumbing repair is complete.


You reminded me of metal access panels. When we changed the bathroom
and added a jetted tub for the bride, I put two metal panels on the
outside wall to allow access for the motor and plumbing.* One at each
location. If work is ever needed, there is no need to remove tiles or
make inside repairs.

Like this:

http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/15123/1512386_300.jpg

The sink drain pipes may interfere with opening the door though. A
removable 1/4" piece of ply would be easy to remove. Even paint it.

*
http://i48.tinypic.com/263ypn9.jpg

"Steven L." writes:

On 11/26/2012 3:08 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:17:46 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

If it was my hole under the sink:

Make edges of hole square.

Cut piece of plasterboard to fit.

Cut 2 wood strips longer than the hole.

Slip sticks in hole and attach with screws on top and bottom.

Screw plasterboard patch to 2 strips of wood.

Spackle.


This is an easy, clever way to patch a hole.

Patching a wall using the 'California Patch'

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kfw8M-a0pE

Cool! That is a good way.

But now I wonder:

Since it's a common problem to have to access plumbing underneath
sinks to make repairs, wouldn't it make sense to build in some means
of access in the first place, instead of having to chop through
drywall?

"common problem"?

There's no access panel because you don't need one.

--
Dan Espen

responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ll-723530-.htm
IronmanAndrew wrote:

I have seen it repiared with Cable ties before. Just buycableties, then drill holes is both places that they attach to. slip both ends through and tighten. This is usually when there is no other options.

--

I have seen this one where they use cable ties to attach to the wall. Just drill some holes in both pieces and feed through. this allows for removal without any mudding ot real damage. http://www.buycableties.com/ has always been a good reference for me.