Been lucky I guess. Only a few times I was caught in heavy fog or
rain/snow on the interstate. Seems very few people passed me when I
put on my blinkers and went as slow as about 20 mph. But I could see
maybe 15-30 feet.
Must be terrible to find yourself in zero visibility. Only thing I
can figure with the big Texas pile-up damage is folks went from good
visibility into a wall of fog that was already pile up with crashed
vehicles.
When I hitch-hiked from Norfolk to Chicago in the '60's I picked up a
ride with dead-heading trucker late at night. Mack pulling an empty
flatbed.
Never forget it. Our talking was what kept him from nodding off.
Penn turnpike near Beaver Falls. Fog for about 20 miles, maybe 50 ft
visibility.
He never went below 80. Took a year off my life.
I said goodbye at his first fuel stop, out of the fog. But I wanted
away from him.

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:44:52 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Been lucky I guess. Only a few times I was caught in heavy fog or
rain/snow on the interstate. Seems very few people passed me when I
put on my blinkers and went as slow as about 20 mph. But I could see
maybe 15-30 feet.
Must be terrible to find yourself in zero visibility. Only thing I
can figure with the big Texas pile-up damage is folks went from good
visibility into a wall of fog that was already pile up with crashed
vehicles.
When I hitch-hiked from Norfolk to Chicago in the '60's I picked up a
ride with dead-heading trucker late at night. Mack pulling an empty
flatbed.
Never forget it. Our talking was what kept him from nodding off.
Penn turnpike near Beaver Falls. Fog for about 20 miles, maybe 50 ft
visibility.
He never went below 80. Took a year off my life.
I said goodbye at his first fuel stop, out of the fog. But I wanted
away from him.

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.

wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:44:52 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Been lucky I guess. Only a few times I was caught in heavy fog or
rain/snow on the interstate. Seems very few people passed me when I
put on my blinkers and went as slow as about 20 mph. But I could see
maybe 15-30 feet.
Must be terrible to find yourself in zero visibility. Only thing I
can figure with the big Texas pile-up damage is folks went from good
visibility into a wall of fog that was already pile up with crashed
vehicles.
When I hitch-hiked from Norfolk to Chicago in the '60's I picked up a
ride with dead-heading trucker late at night. Mack pulling an empty
flatbed.
Never forget it. Our talking was what kept him from nodding off.
Penn turnpike near Beaver Falls. Fog for about 20 miles, maybe 50 ft
visibility.
He never went below 80. Took a year off my life.
I said goodbye at his first fuel stop, out of the fog. But I wanted
away from him.

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.

The accident may well have begun with someone who pulled to the shoulder
and parked and thus when the next person suddenly found themselves in
dense fog they followed the tail lights directly into that stopped
vehicle. Fog can appear very suddenly and a road that had great
visibility can have a fog bank blow over it from an adjacent area in
seconds. The area in question is reported to be straight and level, a
75mph zone and have some adjacent marsh areas where the fog likely
rolled in from. Exits are miles apart.

On Nov 23, 6:09*pm, wrote:

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas.

No, they won't. The shoulder isn't much safer, nitwits hit cops on
the shoulder with their lights going in clear conditions, day and
night.

"Good driver" choices are limited to getting _way_ away from the road,
and that possibility can be extremely questionable. Fog can be so
thick you can't even see the fog line much less an exit, much less
where you're going without the benefit of the lights of other
motorists (whatever little help they may be on the road, you miss them
when they're gone).

If you get caught out there in extremely limited visibility there are
often no good answers. If you don't know what you're talking about
stop trying to provide them.
-----

- gpsman

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:




A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.


Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

For sure, too easy to get hit from behind.

In Drivers Ed, they told if you had to pull
over in fog, use the four way flashers.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.


Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

On 11/23/2012 11:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:




A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.


Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.


For sure. Thats why in some areas with say winding roads they realized
it makes sense to provide free towing service off the highway for
breakdowns because a car on the shoulder is an accident waiting to
happen. The Schuylkill Expressway in Philly area is one, PennDOT has a
number of tow trucks in service just to get vehicles off the
road/shoulder. Clearing such vehicles makes sense.

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:35:45 -0500, George
wrote:

On 11/23/2012 11:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:




A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.


Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.


For sure. Thats why in some areas with say winding roads they realized
it makes sense to provide free towing service off the highway for
breakdowns because a car on the shoulder is an accident waiting to
happen. The Schuylkill Expressway in Philly area is one, PennDOT has a
number of tow trucks in service just to get vehicles off the
road/shoulder. Clearing such vehicles makes sense.
And they are going to tow off every car that pulls over in a bad
bank of fog?? I don't think so! They pull the trucks off the road
when visibility gets bad.

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:58:34 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:




A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.


Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.
That's fine if you can see to GET to the exit. You need a good GPS to
tell you if there is one close when you can't see 10 feet in any
direction.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:


A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.


Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

And if you are in a place that is far from the next exit, get as far off
the road as possible, turn off your lights so other vehicles don't
follow your tail lights thinking that's where the road is, and get out
of your vehicle and further away, preferably beyond guardrails or other
barriers.

On Nov 24, 7:38*am, "Pete C." wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. *I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. *Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. *Some drivers
have no brains.

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. *Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

And if you are in a place that is far from the next exit, get as far off
the road as possible, turn off your lights so other vehicles don't
follow your tail lights thinking that's where the road is, and get out
of your vehicle and further away, preferably beyond guardrails or other
barriers.

Yes!!

Harry K

On 11-24-2012 10:38, Pete C. wrote:
And if you are in a place that is far from the next exit, get as far off
the road as possible, turn off your lights so other vehicles don't
follow your tail lights thinking that's where the road is, and get out
of your vehicle and further away, preferably beyond guardrails or other
barriers.

OK for fog; not OK for blizzard.

--
Wes Groleau

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable.
€” John F. Kennedy

On Nov 24, 12:01*pm, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 11-24-2012 10:38, Pete C. wrote:

And if you are in a place that is far from the next exit, get as far off
the road as possible, turn off your lights so other vehicles don't
follow your tail lights thinking that's where the road is, and get out
of your vehicle and further away, preferably beyond guardrails or other
barriers.

OK for fog; not OK for blizzard.


Why so? You are just as likely to get smashed in low visibility in a
blizzard as in a fog..
Of course plow berms, etc may prevent getting off the road.

Harry K

Wes Groleau wrote:

On 11-24-2012 10:38, Pete C. wrote:
And if you are in a place that is far from the next exit, get as far off
the road as possible, turn off your lights so other vehicles don't
follow your tail lights thinking that's where the road is, and get out
of your vehicle and further away, preferably beyond guardrails or other
barriers.

OK for fog; not OK for blizzard.

I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a blizzard in south Texas in quite
some time...

On Nov 23, 8:58*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. *I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. *Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. *Some drivers
have no brains.

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. *Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

Smart drivers, if the conditions permit, will be off, way off, on the
berms and not wait for an exit.

Harry K

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:57:44 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 23, 8:58Â*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. Â*I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Â*Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Â*Some drivers
have no brains.

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Â*Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

Smart drivers, if the conditions permit, will be off, way off, on the
berms and not wait for an exit.

Harry K
Pretty hard to get past the Jersey Barriers or the Armco on a lot of
highways.

On Nov 24, 5:43*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:57:44 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:





On Nov 23, 8:58*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. *I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. *Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. *Some drivers
have no brains.

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. *Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

Smart drivers, if the conditions permit, will be off, way off, on the
berms and not wait for an exit.

Harry K

*Pretty hard to get past the Jersey Barriers or the Armco on a lot of
highways.

Odd, I thought that was self evident...but apparently not. You also
forgot to mention guard rails, deep ditchs, rock cliffs, etc.

Harry K

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:57:44 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 23, 8:58*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. *I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. *Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. *Some drivers
have no brains.

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. *Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

Smart drivers, if the conditions permit, will be off, way off, on the
berms and not wait for an exit.

Harry K

Assuming there are berms. In many places, there is but a normal width
shoulder, a very dangerous place to stop in good weather, let alone in
fog. If no place to hide, I'm getting off.

On Nov 24, 8:10*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:57:44 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:





On Nov 23, 8:58 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:08:22 -0600, wrote:

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as
bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or
my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting
on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers
have no brains.

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a
target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe
place.

Smart drivers, if the conditions permit, will be off, way off, on the
berms and not wait for an exit.

Harry K

Assuming there are berms. *In many places, there is but a normal width
shoulder, a very dangerous place to stop in good weather, let alone in
fog. *If no place to hide, I'm getting off.

It is the rare freeway that does not have wide, shallow berms. Of
course the byways are another sory.

You are in dense fog and will wait for an exit? Not me, I will be as
far off the road as I can get (withoing reason) as soon as I can find
the edge of the highway.

Harry K

Vic Smith wrote:
Been lucky I guess. Only a few times I was caught in heavy fog or
rain/snow on the interstate. Seems very few people passed me when I
put on my blinkers and went as slow as about 20 mph. But I could see
maybe 15-30 feet.
Must be terrible to find yourself in zero visibility. Only thing I
can figure with the big Texas pile-up damage is folks went from good
visibility into a wall of fog that was already pile up with crashed
vehicles.
When I hitch-hiked from Norfolk to Chicago in the '60's I picked up a
ride with dead-heading trucker late at night. Mack pulling an empty
flatbed.
Never forget it. Our talking was what kept him from nodding off.
Penn turnpike near Beaver Falls. Fog for about 20 miles, maybe 50 ft
visibility.
He never went below 80. Took a year off my life.
I said goodbye at his first fuel stop, out of the fog. But I wanted
away from him.

There is virtually never any fog on the highway designated for 85mph speed
limit. Truth be told, there is seldom any moisture on that stretch of road.

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:44:52 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Been lucky I guess. Only a few times I was caught in heavy fog or
rain/snow on the interstate. Seems very few people passed me when I
put on my blinkers and went as slow as about 20 mph. But I could see
maybe 15-30 feet.
Must be terrible to find yourself in zero visibility. Only thing I
can figure with the big Texas pile-up damage is folks went from good
visibility into a wall of fog that was already pile up with crashed
vehicles.
When I hitch-hiked from Norfolk to Chicago in the '60's I picked up a
ride with dead-heading trucker late at night. Mack pulling an empty
flatbed.
Never forget it. Our talking was what kept him from nodding off.
Penn turnpike near Beaver Falls. Fog for about 20 miles, maybe 50 ft
visibility.
He never went below 80. Took a year off my life.
I said goodbye at his first fuel stop, out of the fog. But I wanted
away from him.


I'm familiar with that highway since I lived in Beaumont once. Some
people who live there drive crazy like driving 70 mph in blinding fog
when they can't even see in front of their car/truck. I saw this when
I lived there unfortunately.

Vic Smith wrote:

Been lucky I guess. Only a few times I was caught in heavy fog or
rain/snow on the interstate. Seems very few people passed me when I
put on my blinkers and went as slow as about 20 mph. But I could see
maybe 15-30 feet.
Must be terrible to find yourself in zero visibility. Only thing I
can figure with the big Texas pile-up damage is folks went from good
visibility into a wall of fog that was already pile up with crashed
vehicles.
When I hitch-hiked from Norfolk to Chicago in the '60's I picked up a
ride with dead-heading trucker late at night. Mack pulling an empty
flatbed.
Never forget it. Our talking was what kept him from nodding off.
Penn turnpike near Beaver Falls. Fog for about 20 miles, maybe 50 ft
visibility.
He never went below 80. Took a year off my life.
I said goodbye at his first fuel stop, out of the fog. But I wanted
away from him.


I'm sure the speed limit is adjusted for weather. By law, you're
supposed to do it yourself without any prodding by electrical speed
limit signs.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:12:48 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:


I'm sure the speed limit is adjusted for weather. By law, you're
supposed to do it yourself without any prodding by electrical speed
limit signs.

Some states have traffic violations for speed, exceeding driving
conditions ...something like that.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:59:48 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:12:48 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:


I'm sure the speed limit is adjusted for weather. By law, you're
supposed to do it yourself without any prodding by electrical speed
limit signs.

Some states have traffic violations for speed, exceeding driving
conditions ...something like that.

Speed limits are always "reasonable and proper". ...both the maximum
and minimums, if any.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:59:48 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:12:48 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:


I'm sure the speed limit is adjusted for weather. By law, you're
supposed to do it yourself without any prodding by electrical speed
limit signs.

Some states have traffic violations for speed, exceeding driving
conditions ...something like that.
Driving too fast for conditions - and if you argue that they throw
"driving without due care and attention " - or "careless driving".
That IS a serious charge.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:57:14 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:59:48 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:12:48 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:


I'm sure the speed limit is adjusted for weather. By law, you're
supposed to do it yourself without any prodding by electrical speed
limit signs.

Some states have traffic violations for speed, exceeding driving
conditions ...something like that.

Driving too fast for conditions - and if you argue that they throw
"driving without due care and attention " - or "careless driving".
That IS a serious charge.

They might just throw in a charge of "reckless eyeballin'". It is
Texas after all.

Failure to control a vehicle is another.