"Ron Paul" wrote

America is over $16 trillion in debt. The "official" unemployment rate
still hovers around 8%.

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal government to
spend spend spend. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. (Ever
hear of the WPA and World War II?) As it stands now, the dollar is stronger
than any other world currency, so we have the breathing room to spend spend
spend. It will begin to cause some inflation which is sorely needed now.
The deflation we'd been having has caused the collapse of the housing
market, the collapse of banks, and the pricing of American goods way too
high abroad. If we can get infation going again, our products will again be
competitive on the world markets.

On Nov 11, 3:39*pm, "David Kaye" wrote:
"Ron Paul" wrote

America is over $16 trillion in debt. The "official" unemployment rate
still hovers around 8%.

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal government to
spend spend spend. *This is how we got out of the Great Depression. *(Ever
hear of the WPA and World War II?)

Ever here of Greece? Italy? Ireland?
As for WWII, we are currently in as much debt relative
to GDP as we were at the END OF WWII. In other words,
we've already spent the money. In the case of WWII, we
had a lot to show for it. This time, not so much....





*As it stands now, the dollar is stronger
than any other world currency, so we have the breathing room to spend spend
spend. *It will begin to cause some inflation which is sorely needed now.
The deflation we'd been having has caused the collapse of the housing
market, the collapse of banks, and the pricing of

With the exception of housing, there has been no deflation.
And the FED has flooded the markets with unprecedented
liquidity. What planet are you living on?



American goods way too
high abroad. *If we can get infation going again, our products will again be
competitive on the world markets.

Yes, let's strive to become the next Weimar Republic
or more recently, Zimbabwe. The truth is you loon libs
know that on the path we're on, that's the only way the
debt will be paid off, ie by making the currency totally
worthless.

I think that further spending would be totally
irresponsible. Taking money away frm future
generations in the form of debt, is cruel to them.

I've heard that the depression was longer,
and recovery slower, because of liberals who
didn't just cut taxes, and display some responsibility
and maturity.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"David Kaye" wrote in message
...

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal government to
spend spend spend. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. (Ever
hear of the WPA and World War II?) As it stands now, the dollar is stronger
than any other world currency, so we have the breathing room to spend spend
spend. It will begin to cause some inflation which is sorely needed now.
The deflation we'd been having has caused the collapse of the housing
market, the collapse of banks, and the pricing of American goods way too
high abroad. If we can get infation going again, our products will again be
competitive on the world markets.

David Kaye wrote:
"Ron Paul" wrote

America is over $16 trillion in debt. The "official" unemployment
rate still hovers around 8%.

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal
government to spend spend spend. This is how we got out of the Great
Depression. (Ever hear of the WPA and World War II?) As it stands
now, the dollar is stronger than any other world currency, so we have
the breathing room to spend spend spend. It will begin to cause some
inflation which is sorely needed now. The deflation we'd been having
has caused the collapse of the housing market, the collapse of banks,
and the pricing of American goods way too high abroad. If we can get
infation going again, our products will again be competitive on the
world markets.

The alternative is austerity measures like used in Europe. Notice how much
better we are doing having not taken that approach.

Eliminating the deficit is the thing to do when the economy is booming, like
when Bush came into office, not when it has crashed, like since just before Bush
left office.

Bush promised to eliminate the deficit when he took office. Instead, he gave a
big tax cut to the rich and started 2 unnecessary wars, and more than doubled
the deficit. But Republicans have never been very good at balanced budgets, have
they?

Bob F wrote:

Bush promised to eliminate the deficit when he took office. Instead,
he gave a big tax cut to the rich and started 2 unnecessary wars,

And he told you the invasion of Iraq was only going to cost $87 billion.

It has cost you far more than that, and not just in dollars. It started
a chain of events that has left your economy permanently damaged.

The depression was caused by the Federal Reserve tightening the money
supply. The best thing to do would be to eliminate the Federal
Reserve and their money juggling policies.




On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:55:10 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I think that further spending would be totally
irresponsible. Taking money away frm future
generations in the form of debt, is cruel to them.

I've heard that the depression was longer,
and recovery slower, because of liberals who
didn't just cut taxes, and display some responsibility
and maturity.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"David Kaye" wrote in message
...

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal government to
spend spend spend. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. (Ever
hear of the WPA and World War II?) As it stands now, the dollar is stronger
than any other world currency, so we have the breathing room to spend spend
spend. It will begin to cause some inflation which is sorely needed now.
The deflation we'd been having has caused the collapse of the housing
market, the collapse of banks, and the pricing of American goods way too
high abroad. If we can get infation going again, our products will again be
competitive on the world markets.




J

Home Guy wrote:
Bob F wrote:

Bush promised to eliminate the deficit when he took office. Instead,
he gave a big tax cut to the rich and started 2 unnecessary wars,

And he told you the invasion of Iraq was only going to cost $87 billion.

It has cost you far more than that, and not just in dollars. It started
a chain of events that has left your economy permanently damaged.

I would like to see Where that money went. It didn't all leave the country.

Greg

"gregz" wrote in message
...
Home Guy wrote:
Bob F wrote:

Bush promised to eliminate the deficit when he took office. Instead,
he gave a big tax cut to the rich and started 2 unnecessary wars,

And he told you the invasion of Iraq was only going to cost $87 billion.

It has cost you far more than that, and not just in dollars. It started
a chain of events that has left your economy permanently damaged.

I would like to see Where that money went. It didn't all leave the
country.

Greg

It went for rose petals, so Iraq could line the streets when they welcomed
the occupiers.

"J" wrote

The depression was caused by the Federal Reserve tightening the money
supply. The best thing to do would be to eliminate the Federal
Reserve and their money juggling policies.

You don't know a THING about history, do you? The Great Depression was
caused by people buying stocks on 10% margin, the EXACT same thing that
caused the housing collapse in 2008 -- the EXACT SAME THING. When it's time
to call in those debts, people didn't have the money to pay off their stocks
and the stock prices collapsed. In 2008 people didn't have the money to pay
down their mortgages. In both cases, people were betting that they'd find a
bigger sucker where they could unload their stocks/homes. But they ran out
of suckers and, like the game of musical chairs, when everybody sat down,
they were left standing.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO AMERICA. I say this
because in other countries, it's easy for politicians to be popular by
printing up more money and letting inflation run rampant. The Federal
Reserve prevents this monkeying with the money supply by very judiciously
managing the amount of money being issues. YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL that the
Federal Reserve exists because it has kept the dollar the STRONGEST currency
in the world!

Remember that oil is sold in dollars, not euros, not yen, not yuan, or even
in gold. Because the dollar is more stable than any of those other
currencies.

wrote

With the exception of housing, there has been no deflation.
And the FED has flooded the markets with unprecedented
liquidity. What planet are you living on?

Housing makes up the BULK of the wealth in this country. Housing is the
most expensive commodity any person will buy in their lifetimes. Cars are
second. We've also seen a deflation in car prices.

Wages. We've seen a deflation in wages since 2008 as well with people in
all walks of life taking pay cuts -- all across the board from symphony
musicians to corporate CEOs.

Naah, liberals like the weak dollar.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...-profits_n.htm
So, a US worker has to work for five years to buy a Japanese car, but the
Japan worker works one year to buy a US car with his strong Yen. I'm not
ammused.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"David Kaye" wrote in message
...

YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL that the
Federal Reserve exists because it has kept the dollar the STRONGEST currency
in the world!

"Stormin Mormon" wrote

CY: The US government has a deficit. They spend more than they take in. In
order to do more stimulus spending, they have to issue bonds, or promisory
notes. This further debt will be repaid by the next generation.

The USA has been issuing bonds in one form or another since at least the
Civil War. This hasn't hurt us as a nation.


CY: By over taxation, and over regulation. Taxes are built into every
layer
of business operation, and are crippling the nation. Over regulation is a
form of tax.

Most other Western industrialized nations are far more regulated and taxes
than we are, and yet they enjoy good economies. Germany is one of the
most-regulated and highly taxed nations and they're basically propping up
the lower-taxed, less-regulated nations of the European Union today such as
Greece.


CY: I think the tax burden is a major factor in hiring. Witness the shift
to
"temps" instead of full time employees.

No, I don't agree at all. Companies use temps because the "temp industry"
made it super-simple to hire only the bare minimum people needed. They get
a bill from the agency and the agency handles the payroll. So, rather than
pay someone for a 40-hour week when the job is 30 hours one week, 40 another
week, 25 the next, they find it cheaper/easier to just use a temp. I've
done temping and I've hired temps so I know what this is about.


CY: Wrongo! The only money government has, is what it took away from
someone
else. Or which it printed out of nothing, thus causing inflation.

No, unlike states or the private sector, the government can PRINT MONEY. As
long as our inflation is low (and ours his at HISTORIC lows) we can afford
to print money and give it to people.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...-profits_n.htm

EXELLENT ARTICLE, which supports my position entirely. I quote:

"
The weak dollar has been such a boon for companies, it's a top reason why
earnings are beating expectations so handily, says Larry Adam, strategist at
Deutsche Bank Private Wealth Management. Companies in the Standard & Poor's
500 get roughly half their revenue from overseas.

Meanwhile, the weak dollar especially helps companies that get growing
amounts of revenue from emerging nations, where the dollar stands to
continue to erode, Adam says.

If the weak dollar continues and pushes profit higher, companies may feel
better about hiring, Van Dijk says.

"

On Nov 11, 8:39*pm, "David Kaye" wrote:
"Ron Paul" wrote

America is over $16 trillion in debt. The "official" unemployment rate
still hovers around 8%.

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal government to
spend spend spend. *This is how we got out of the Great Depression. *(Ever
hear of the WPA and World War II?) *As it stands now, the dollar is stronger
than any other world currency, so we have the breathing room to spend spend
spend. *It will begin to cause some inflation which is sorely needed now.
The deflation we'd been having has caused the collapse of the housing
market, the collapse of banks, and the pricing of American goods way too
high abroad. *If we can get infation going again, our products will again be
competitive on the world markets.

No-one can say what exactly is the solution.
What happened in the 1930s is not exactly the same as what is now
happenning.
So there are risks in any policy

On Nov 11, 11:45*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
David Kaye wrote:
"Ron Paul" wrote

America is over $16 trillion in debt. The "official" unemployment
rate still hovers around 8%.

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal
government to spend spend spend. *This is how we got out of the Great
Depression. *(Ever hear of the WPA and World War II?) *As it stands
now, the dollar is stronger than any other world currency, so we have
the breathing room to spend spend spend. *It will begin to cause some
inflation which is sorely needed now. The deflation we'd been having
has caused the collapse of the housing market, the collapse of banks,
and the pricing of American goods way too high abroad. *If we can get
infation going again, our products will again be competitive on the
world markets.

The alternative is austerity measures like used in Europe. Notice how much
better we are doing having not taken that approach.

Eliminating the deficit is the thing to do when the economy is booming, like
when Bush came into office, not when it has crashed, like since just before Bush
left office.

Bush promised to eliminate the deficit when he took office. Instead, he gave a
big tax cut to the rich and started 2 unnecessary wars, and more than doubled
the deficit. But Republicans have never been very good at balanced budgets, have
they?

Short memories too. Particularly as to what happened and when.

On Nov 12, 1:58*am, J wrote:
The depression was caused by the Federal Reserve tightening the money
supply. *The best thing to do would be to eliminate the Federal
Reserve *and their money juggling policies.

On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:55:10 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"









wrote:
I think that further spending would be totally
irresponsible. Taking money away frm future
generations in the form of debt, is cruel to them.

I've heard that the depression was longer,
and recovery slower, because of liberals *who
didn't just cut taxes, and display some responsibility
and maturity.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"David Kaye" wrote in message
...

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal government to
spend spend spend. *This is how we got out of the Great Depression. *(Ever
hear of the WPA and World War II?) *As it stands now, the dollar is stronger
than any other world currency, so we have the breathing room to spend spend
spend. *It will begin to cause some inflation which is sorely needed now.
The deflation we'd been having has caused the collapse of the housing
market, the collapse of banks, and the pricing of American goods way too
high abroad. *If we can get infation going again, our products will again be
competitive on the world markets.

J

The depression was caused by BAD debt. Banks, government and public.

On Nov 12, 2:15*am, gregz wrote:
Home Guy wrote:
Bob F wrote:

Bush promised to eliminate the deficit when he took office. Instead,
he gave a big tax cut to the rich and started 2 unnecessary wars,

And he told you the invasion of Iraq was only going to cost $87 billion..

It has cost you far more than that, and not just in dollars. *It started
a chain of events that has left your economy permanently damaged.

I would like to see Where that money went. It didn't all leave the country.

Greg

Don't confuse wealth with money, they are not the same thing.

On Nov 12, 2:27*am, "David Kaye" wrote:
"J" wrote

The depression was caused by the Federal Reserve tightening the money
supply. *The best thing to do would be to eliminate the Federal
Reserve *and their money juggling policies.

You don't know a THING about history, do you? *The Great Depression was
caused by people buying stocks on 10% margin, the EXACT same thing that
caused the housing collapse in 2008 -- the EXACT SAME THING. *When it's time
to call in those debts, people didn't have the money to pay off their stocks
and the stock prices collapsed. *In 2008 people didn't have the money to pay
down their mortgages. *In both cases, people were betting that they'd find a
bigger sucker where they could unload their stocks/homes. *But they ran out
of suckers and, like the game of musical chairs, when everybody sat down,
they were left standing.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO AMERICA. *I say this
because in other countries, it's easy for politicians to be popular by
printing up more money and letting inflation run rampant. *The Federal
Reserve prevents this monkeying with the money supply by very judiciously
managing the amount of money being issues. *YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL that the
Federal Reserve exists because it has kept the dollar the STRONGEST currency
in the world!

Remember that oil is sold in dollars, not euros, not yen, not yuan, or even
in gold. *Because the dollar is more stable than any of those other
currencies.

All true.
Except oil is not sold everywhere in $.

On 11/12/2012 2:13 AM, harry wrote:
On Nov 12, 1:58 am, J wrote:
The depression was caused by the Federal Reserve tightening the money
supply. The best thing to do would be to eliminate the Federal
Reserve and their money juggling policies.

On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:55:10 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"









wrote:
I think that further spending would be totally
irresponsible. Taking money away frm future
generations in the form of debt, is cruel to them.

I've heard that the depression was longer,
and recovery slower, because of liberals who
didn't just cut taxes, and display some responsibility
and maturity.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"David Kaye" wrote in message
...

The only way out of our financial problem is for the federal government to
spend spend spend. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. (Ever
hear of the WPA and World War II?) As it stands now, the dollar is stronger
than any other world currency, so we have the breathing room to spend spend
spend. It will begin to cause some inflation which is sorely needed now.
The deflation we'd been having has caused the collapse of the housing
market, the collapse of banks, and the pricing of American goods way too
high abroad. If we can get infation going again, our products will again be
competitive on the world markets.

J

The depression was caused by BAD debt. Banks, government and public.


I think it has more to do with invisible money. Intangible money backed
by hope and change, to make a pun. I watched an interesting video
explaining the monetization of debt and the consequences. It would
strike a normal struggling bloke like me as bizarre to sell your debt to
get along. I go to Harry and say "Harry, Fred owes me 25 clams, I'll
give you this IOU from Fred for the 20 clams I owe you and you can
collect 25 clams from Fred." Of course when Harry goes to Fred, he has
no clams but he has an IOU from Chris for 27 clams which he offers to
Harry for the debt and swaps IOU's with him and on and on until your
head explodes from the confusion. It seems that the world financial
system is working something like that and of course I'll never claim to
have a complete understanding of it except to state that it is one very
big cluster coitus and seems to be collapsing in on itself. O_o

TDD

On 11/11/12 10:28 pm, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Taxes are a SMALL PART of the business picture. Businesses do not base
their hiring on taxes. They base hiring on the NEED to hire people. They
NEED to hire people when they get a lot of sales. They get a lot of sales
when there is money to spend.

CY: I think the tax burden is a major factor in hiring. Witness the shift to
"temps" instead of full time employees.

Companies hire "temps" (and part-timers) because then they don't have to
pay health insurance and other benefits AND because of general economic
uncertainty (including not knowing whether their bank is going to cut
off their line of credit).

Perce

On Nov 12, 1:30*pm, Home Guy wrote:
David Kaye wrote:
EXELLENT ARTICLE, which supports my position entirely. *I quote:

"The weak dollar has been such a boon for companies, it's a top
reason why earnings are beating expectations so handily

The weak US dollar is killing domestic spending because it's the primary
reason for high oil (and thus gasoline) prices.

Your economy runs on oil.

Your economy will stay in a perpetual coma until or unless petro-energy
prices come down. *They won't come down when your dollar is a basket
case and your FED interest rate is ZERO.

Your gov't has been desperately trying to convert your economy to run
electricity over the past 4 - 6 years because they DON'T see
petro-energy prices falling - EVER. *And when they're not doing that,
they're promoting that more of your food corn be used as biofuel. *And
you just had the worst corn harvest in years.

Why do you think they bailed out GM? *Because GM has the VOLT, and GM
has been heavily building and promoting (and subsidizing) the only
domestic, fully electric mass-market car.

Where do you suppose most of the electricity comes from?

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:20:23 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

gotten in the regular tax refund after the first of the year.
-

The election is over. Why do we still need to keep reading politics on
alt.home.repair?

Months of political flooding online, in the mail, and on the media is
enough...... Lets get on with life!

On 11/12/2012 3:26 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:20:23 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

gotten in the regular tax refund after the first of the year.
-

The election is over. Why do we still need to keep reading politics on
alt.home.repair?



Is someone there twisting your arm?

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:26:09 -0600, wrote:


The election is over. Why do we still need to keep reading politics on
alt.home.repair?

Why are you compelled to nym-shift every day, sometimes more than once
in a thread?

On 11/12/2012 11:29 AM, harry wrote:
On Nov 12, 1:30 pm, Home Guy wrote:
David Kaye wrote:
EXELLENT ARTICLE, which supports my position entirely. I quote:

"The weak dollar has been such a boon for companies, it's a top
reason why earnings are beating expectations so handily

The weak US dollar is killing domestic spending because it's the primary
reason for high oil (and thus gasoline) prices.

Your economy runs on oil.

Your economy will stay in a perpetual coma until or unless petro-energy
prices come down. They won't come down when your dollar is a basket
case and your FED interest rate is ZERO.

Your gov't has been desperately trying to convert your economy to run
electricity over the past 4 - 6 years because they DON'T see
petro-energy prices falling - EVER. And when they're not doing that,
they're promoting that more of your food corn be used as biofuel. And
you just had the worst corn harvest in years.

Why do you think they bailed out GM? Because GM has the VOLT, and GM
has been heavily building and promoting (and subsidizing) the only
domestic, fully electric mass-market car.

Where do you suppose most of the electricity comes from?


The atmosphere, there are some wonderful pictures and videos of
lightning strikes taken from The International Space Station. ^_^

TDD

On 11/12/2012 1:37 PM, David Kaye wrote:
"harry" wrote

But they didn't have the inside information like the banksters did.
And furthermore, the banksters could manipulate the system to cause
the crash to happen..

Exactly. Well, the bankers didn't really want the whole thing to crash, but
the People Who Know Better took their money out of stocks and out of the
housing market, which is why both the stock market and the housing market
crashed several months later. Heck, even I took my money out of the market
before the collapse because the price run-ups simply weren't making sense.

This is an exact duplicate of the stock market crash that led to the Great
Depression of 1929 -- too many people with too little information bought on
low margins (10%) and got stuck when the house of cards came crashing down.

John D. Rockefeller was said to have told someone that he immediately got
rid of his stock in 1929 when his cab driver started giving him stock tips.


Do you mean that cab drivers aren't the best source for stock tips,
DANG! O_o

TDD

On Nov 12, 7:32*pm, "David Kaye" wrote:
"Home Guy" wrote

The weak US dollar is killing domestic spending because it's the primary
reason for high oil (and thus gasoline) prices.

The fact is that oil is sold on the world market, so the USA is competing
with every other country that buys on the world market. *This means that no
matter how much oil is produced here in the USA, the prices for oil will not
change. *This is because China and India now have a middle class thanks to
all the jobs that have been exported there; and those folks just LOVE having
cars.

Now, as to GASOLINE prices, which are totally different from OIL prices,
gasoline prices are set by what the local market will bear. *Here in
California our prices have been high because we can afford high prices and
are willing to pay them. *I think nothing of spending $4.25 a gallon for
gasoline because I have plenty of money for those expenses. *As the winter
comes and there is less car travel, prices come down, as they already have.
Whereas a couple months ago we were seeing prices in the $4.50 a gallon
range, today, the norm is about $3.75 a gallon and still dropping.

If the dollar was such a bad investment, the world oil market would trade in
some other currency or in gold, but it doesn't because the dollar is the
most stable currency there is.

History.
There are moves afoot to change all of this

On Nov 12, 9:26*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:20:23 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

gotten in the regular tax refund after the first of the year.
-

The election is over. *Why do we still need to keep reading politics on
alt.home.repair?

Months of political flooding online, in the mail, and on the media is
enough...... *Lets get on with life!

It interests people.
As the recession is still with us. Lots of people have had their
lives ruined. And their children's lives.

harry wrote:

It was founded on killin' Indians and stealing their land.
Nothing changed much.

Fighting Illegal Immigration 1492!

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:17:51 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

And tax cuts don't lead to economic growth according to a new study.


http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...dont-lead-to-e
conomic-growth-a-new-65-year-study-finds/262438/


1) Lower tax rates do not mean less tax revenue.

Maybe you meant "do not *always* mean" because in the real world lower tax
rates usually produce less revenue if you change nothing else. Just like
you taking a paycut in January would show up next April as less income for
the year in almost every case. These eggheads at Heritage like to find the
one case (out of millions?) that proves their point and then generalize from
that. Bad logic. It's funny how easily disproved that statement is by
observing what governments do when revenue is off. They raise taxes.

2) The rich pay more when incentives to hide income are reduced.

The rich pay more when the loopholes they've bought from Congress are choked
off. And yes, I know that HB and others are going to trot out their very
tired favorite yacht canard. Jeez, how many times will they play that
tired, easily disproved card.

This "incentivizing" game is just that. A game. Incentives often fail to
produce the desired result. See the chart in the Atlantic article to
evaluate the "incentive" of lowering taxes on the rich. There was no
guarantee they would invest in America or American jobs with that money and
very strong evidence to prove they didn't.


http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...ower-tax-rates

Ruh roh! Who are these people at heritage, you might ask? From Google:

Heritage Foundation
www.heritage.org/ - Cached - Similar
Join Rush Limbaugh and nearly 700,000 other conservatives as a Member of
The Heritage Foundation today. Join our fight--and help us return our nation
to its ...

Yeah, they're an impartial group. NOT! (-:

If you were filthy rich and smart enough to get that way, wouldn't you spend
some money defending the huge tax breaks that you got from Bush? Maybe
create a tax free foundation or two hundred? (They like to call themselves
"think tanks" but that's too generous.)

I would do that and more. I'd hire an army of bloggers to perpetrate
whatever lies it took to keep hold of my money. I often wonder about some
posters here and whose payroll they might be on. What are they called?
Astroturfers?

--
Bobby G.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

Maybe you meant "do not *always* mean" because in the real world lower tax
rates usually produce less revenue if you change nothing else. Just like
you taking a paycut in January would show up next April as less income for
the year in almost every case. These eggheads at Heritage like to find the
one case (out of millions?) that proves their point and then generalize from
that. Bad logic. It's funny how easily disproved that statement is by
observing what governments do when revenue is off. They raise taxes.

This is a squishy territory because of how you define less revenue
which, in turn, is very dependent on what revenue you think you would
have gotten, which in turn, is very dependent on the assumptions. I have
looked back on most of the "scorings" by the Joint Committee on Taxation
since the original tax cuts in the RR years and have found them to never
be correct the first year, let alone 5 or 10 years out. In fact with RR
cuts, they said revenues would fall the entire time and they did the
first year, but had returned the baseline by year 2 and revenue was
actually ahead of what the scoring said would have come in if they had
left the tax laws alone. And that has happened with most every tax law
change since RR.
The revenue we get is dependent on what ACTUALLY happens in the
economy instead of what the eggheads THINK will happen when they do teh
scoring. These are really useless for anything since they seldom reflect
(for good or bad) what happens in the economy.


If you were filthy rich and smart enough to get that way, wouldn't you spend
some money defending the huge tax breaks that you got from Bush? Maybe
create a tax free foundation or two hundred? (They like to call themselves
"think tanks" but that's too generous.)
What large tax breaks. The biggest ones were across-the-board %age.
They actually reduced the number the brackets and put a fairly large
group of people out of the tax loop entirely by eliminating one of the
lowest brackets.
The CBO figures for the effective tax rates show that while the
top 1%s rate has fallen, so have every other tax rate since 2000 (the
most easily found figures and covers the Bush taxes). While the
effective rate for the top 1% have fallen 20%, the middle quintiles has
fallen by 40%.
Also, the other part the Dems forget to mention, is that the
Bush tax also included changes in the Earned Income and Child tax
credits, among others, that meant the two lowest quintiles (the poorest
40%) actually pay NEGATIVE tax rates meaning they get back more in
credits than they pay in taxes. (All of their withholding is returned
with a little more for good measure). In answer to your next question:
"Effective federal tax rates for all households by Comprehensaive
household income quintile".

Looking at shares of income taxes, you see the lowest quintile's has
shrunk from 0.3 in 1984 (the highest level during the 1979 to 2006 to
-2.8% while the top 1%'s has gone from a low of 12.9% in '81, to 39.1
now. TOTAL federal liabilities (including social insurance and excise
tax liabilities) has dropped from 2.1% to 0.8% for the lowest quintile
and 15.4% to 28.3% in the 1%.
(Shares of federal tax liabilities for all households by comprehensive
household income quintile).




I would do that and more. I'd hire an army of bloggers to perpetrate
whatever lies it took to keep hold of my money. I often wonder about some
posters here and whose payroll they might be on. What are they called?
Astroturfers?

And if I was interested in establishing tax policy largely on what
offended my personal sensitivities, I'd just gainsay anybody who
disagreed with me.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

You are the one who doesn't know history. Even Bernanke admitted and
apologized for the Federal Reserve making the depression of the 1930's
worse by tightening the money supply. Go take a course on elementary
economics and learn something.





On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 18:27:48 -0800, "David Kaye"
wrote:

"J" wrote

The depression was caused by the Federal Reserve tightening the money
supply. The best thing to do would be to eliminate the Federal
Reserve and their money juggling policies.

You don't know a THING about history, do you? The Great Depression was
caused by people buying stocks on 10% margin, the EXACT same thing that
caused the housing collapse in 2008 -- the EXACT SAME THING. When it's time
to call in those debts, people didn't have the money to pay off their stocks
and the stock prices collapsed. In 2008 people didn't have the money to pay
down their mortgages. In both cases, people were betting that they'd find a
bigger sucker where they could unload their stocks/homes. But they ran out
of suckers and, like the game of musical chairs, when everybody sat down,
they were left standing.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO AMERICA. I say this
because in other countries, it's easy for politicians to be popular by
printing up more money and letting inflation run rampant. The Federal
Reserve prevents this monkeying with the money supply by very judiciously
managing the amount of money being issues. YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL that the
Federal Reserve exists because it has kept the dollar the STRONGEST currency
in the world!

Remember that oil is sold in dollars, not euros, not yen, not yuan, or even
in gold. Because the dollar is more stable than any of those other
currencies.


J