Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

John F. F. wrote:

Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

Rope and bucket?

On 10/31/2012 12:04 PM, John F. F. wrote:
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

Google up well hand pumps.
A new one for my deep well would cost as much as a generator and I
assume you'd have to pull your electric pump to use a hand pump.

"John F. F." wrote in :

Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

What alternatives do you suppose there might be? You have an electric pump at the bottom of
your well. It runs on 240VAC. If you don't have power from the power company, how are you
going to get power to the pump, without either a generator, or a really really long extension
cord?

On 10/31/2012 11:04 AM, John F. F. wrote:
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

Well, for the well itself you're pretty much stuck. Whether there's an
alternate water source depends greatly on location, location,
location...here the answer is "basically, no".

For the house we fill up several containers when it looks like things
could get bad for a while and count on it lasting long enough. When we
have cattle that must be watered and it's over a day it's "make it
happen somehow" whether that's the tractor over the fields to the city
water station (we're fortunate in that regard of being within a distance
that it is at least feasible) or the generator or whatever...

_IF_ were really going to be in the cattle business again for real, I'd
probably dig a second well and have it be solar-powered. Back years ago
before the submersible the windmill served but while they are off-grid
in that regards they're very high maintenance and low volume so don't
miss it that much...

Of course, as we've gotten older, often we just go to town for a night
or two and just don't worry about it much.... Town loses power much
less frequently and generally gets it back quicker.

--

On 10/31/2012 9:04 AM, John F. F. wrote:
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.
Depends on the well.

My family owned a small dairy farm in Oregon. After the Columbus day
storm back in the 1960's, we had no electricity for more than a week.
Dad used the farm tractor and a tap on the intake manifold to produce
the vacuum to run the milking machines.

Then he drove the tractor to the well house and ran a hose down the
shallow well to the water and hooked the hose to a milking machine. It
pumped water up and filled a 5 gallon can of nice fresh well water. We
filled other cans for storage. Worked great for a week.

You can only do this with a shallow well.

Paul

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:04:49 -0400, "John F. F."
wrote:

Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

YES.
Just make sure the power is high enough for the pump. Most submercible
pumps are 220V.

On 10/31/12 2:12 PM, badgolferman wrote:
John F. F. wrote:

Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

Rope and bucket?


According to comedian Steven Wright, " Take off a sweater real quick"

(Actual joke)
Winny and I lived in a house that ran on static electricity. If you
wanted to run the blender, you had to rub balloons on your head. If
you wanted to cook, you had to pull off a sweater real quick.

Read mo
http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec20...#ixzz2AuqmG49o

Used to be able to buy solar powered well pumps. Sunelco had them, but that
was decades ago.

Lehmans used to have shallow well mechanical pumps.

Inverter, from the car battery.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"John F. F." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

John F. F. wrote:
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

Assuming your real need is for water and not just watching the pump run,
you'd do the same thing as those who have municipal water: Fill the bathtub
and miscellaneous containers.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:05:16 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Used to be able to buy solar powered well pumps. Sunelco had them, but that
was decades ago.

Lehmans used to have shallow well mechanical pumps.

Inverter, from the car battery.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"John F. F." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

If yopu have a 1/2 HP well pump it will quite likely be 110 volts -
and draw about 400 watts running and 800+ to start. An inverter would
be feasible for that.

A 3/4 or 1HP pump is almost definitely going to be a 240 volt unit so
you would need a 2500 VA surge capable 240 volt inverter - which will
draw just over 200 amps from the battery to start the pump and close
to 100 amps to run the pump. At 5 GPM the battery is good for
something like 100 gallons of water on a real good day. The engine
would need to be run at about 1500 RPM on most vehicles to hold that
level of output for extended periods - and if it is a GM, you will be
replacing the alternator next week if you run that kind of load for
over about 20 minutes.

In article ,
John F. F. wrote:
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

I have a submersible now. It replaced a jet pump where the impeller
(which is on the surface, just to be remedial) was powered by
vertically mounted 3HP electric motor. That configuration, I've long
thought, would be suitable for a gas motor, as long as it spinned in the
same direction. Probably quite a few creative alternatives too.

m

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:28:28 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:05:16 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Used to be able to buy solar powered well pumps. Sunelco had them, but that
was decades ago.

Lehmans used to have shallow well mechanical pumps.

Inverter, from the car battery.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"John F. F." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

If yopu have a 1/2 HP well pump it will quite likely be 110 volts -
and draw about 400 watts running and 800+ to start. An inverter would
be feasible for that.

A 3/4 or 1HP pump is almost definitely going to be a 240 volt unit so
you would need a 2500 VA surge capable 240 volt inverter - which will
draw just over 200 amps from the battery to start the pump and close
to 100 amps to run the pump. At 5 GPM the battery is good for
something like 100 gallons of water on a real good day. The engine
would need to be run at about 1500 RPM on most vehicles to hold that
level of output for extended periods - and if it is a GM, you will be
replacing the alternator next week if you run that kind of load for
over about 20 minutes.

My submercible pump is down 370ft. It's a 1.5HP 220V. I did run it
once from a generator when there was a long term power outage. I
borrowed it from a neighbor, and it was a huge power plant on wheels
that connected to the PTO shaft on my farm tractor. It worked fine.
But I cant imagine trying to run it with an inverter. And even less on
a solar panel, unless the panel is huge, with a bank of batteries and
electronics.

The old farms used to have a windmill for these deep wells, and if the
wind was not blowing, there were ways to spin the shaft in the well with
a tractor, engine, or even a team of horses. Those days are long gone.
If the power from the grid goes out, you're screwed, unless you have a
large generator, and good supply of gas to run it. Because if the power
goes out in the area, th gas stations have no way to sell gas.

The old ways were crude, but today's technology is really worse if there
is a power outage. I dont like being dependent on a company and being
helpless if they fail.

There's a saying "Only the strong survive".
However, I think this one makes more sense.
"Only the Smart survive".

I'm still considering designing or buying a wood powered steam engine.
There's plenty of dead trees nearby. Even if the whole economy
collapsed and there was no electric or gasoline, I could still get water
out of my well and provide other electrical needs. The problem is that
all this stuff is costly to buy or make, and the electric and other
energy companies make sure they take enough of our money so that we can
never afford to buy or build equipment to replace them. So day after
day, year after year, we rely on them and few of us are prepared for the
day the economy collapses or a major disaster wipes out our "sources for
outside power".

With that in mind, I guess the real truth is this.
"Only the Smart (and wealthy) survive". Sad but true!

The strong will enslave the smart, and make the smart into servants, and
workers.

With the economy (thank you, Democrats!) I havn't got enough cash flow to do
anything except worry.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...


There's a saying "Only the strong survive".
However, I think this one makes more sense.
"Only the Smart survive".

I'm still considering designing or buying a wood powered steam engine.
There's plenty of dead trees nearby. Even if the whole economy
collapsed and there was no electric or gasoline, I could still get water
out of my well and provide other electrical needs. The problem is that
all this stuff is costly to buy or make, and the electric and other
energy companies make sure they take enough of our money so that we can
never afford to buy or build equipment to replace them. So day after
day, year after year, we rely on them and few of us are prepared for the
day the economy collapses or a major disaster wipes out our "sources for
outside power".

With that in mind, I guess the real truth is this.
"Only the Smart (and wealthy) survive". Sad but true!

obviously the OP needs a generator! Since it likely wouldnt get used
much a harbor freigh model is probably a good choice, and generators
are a nice thing to have around, helped a family that had a home fire
the power had been cut to the building, used the 12 volt output o
charge some car batteries, its nice to have a little redundancy.

On Nov 1, 2:22*am, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:28:28 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:05:16 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Used to be able to buy solar powered well pumps. Sunelco had them, but that
was decades ago.

Lehmans used to have shallow well mechanical pumps.

Inverter, from the car battery.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"John F. F." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, *alternate methods and techniques *anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

If yopu have a 1/2 HP well pump it will quite likely be 110 volts -
and draw about 400 watts running and *800+ to start. An inverter would
be feasible for that.

A 3/4 or 1HP pump is almost definitely going to be a 240 *volt unit so
you would need a 2500 VA surge capable 240 volt inverter - which will
draw just over 200 amps from the battery to start the pump and close
to 100 amps to run the pump. *At 5 GPM the battery is good for
something like 100 gallons of water on a real good day. The engine
would need to be run at about 1500 RPM on most vehicles to hold that
level of output for extended periods - and if it is a GM, you will be
replacing the alternator next week if you run that kind of load for
over about 20 minutes.

My submercible pump is down 370ft. *It's a 1.5HP 220V. *I did run it
once from a generator when there was a long term power outage. *I
borrowed it from a neighbor, and it was a huge power plant on wheels
that connected to the PTO shaft on my farm tractor. *It worked fine.
But I cant imagine trying to run it with an inverter. *And even less on
a solar panel, unless the panel is huge, with a bank of batteries and
electronics.

The old farms used to have a windmill for these deep wells, and if the
wind was not blowing, there were ways to spin the shaft in the well with
a tractor, engine, or even a team of horses. *Those days are long gone.
If the power from the grid goes out, you're screwed, unless you have a
large generator, and good supply of gas to run it. *Because if the power
goes out in the area, th gas stations have no way to sell gas.

Wrong. The old windmills were a piston pump, Operated by a "sucker
rod" that
when up and own run by the gear head on top of the tower. there was
no rotation other than the axle the fan was attached to. If there was
a way to make it work with horses, I never heard of
it. I suppose it wouild be possible but highly unlikely.

Harry K

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 04:21:31 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:28:28 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:05:16 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Used to be able to buy solar powered well pumps. Sunelco had them, but that
was decades ago.

Lehmans used to have shallow well mechanical pumps.

Inverter, from the car battery.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"John F. F." wrote in message
...
Hi all,
For those of us who are on private wells dependent upon electric I'm
wondering what, if any, alternate methods and techniques anyone has
without using a generator to operate their well pump.

If yopu have a 1/2 HP well pump it will quite likely be 110 volts -
and draw about 400 watts running and 800+ to start. An inverter would
be feasible for that.

A 3/4 or 1HP pump is almost definitely going to be a 240 volt unit so
you would need a 2500 VA surge capable 240 volt inverter - which will
draw just over 200 amps from the battery to start the pump and close
to 100 amps to run the pump. At 5 GPM the battery is good for
something like 100 gallons of water on a real good day. The engine
would need to be run at about 1500 RPM on most vehicles to hold that
level of output for extended periods - and if it is a GM, you will be
replacing the alternator next week if you run that kind of load for
over about 20 minutes.

My submercible pump is down 370ft. It's a 1.5HP 220V. I did run it
once from a generator when there was a long term power outage. I
borrowed it from a neighbor, and it was a huge power plant on wheels
that connected to the PTO shaft on my farm tractor. It worked fine.
But I cant imagine trying to run it with an inverter. And even less on
a solar panel, unless the panel is huge, with a bank of batteries and
electronics.

The old farms used to have a windmill for these deep wells, and if the
wind was not blowing, there were ways to spin the shaft in the well with
a tractor, engine, or even a team of horses.

Never seen a real windmill pimp, eh?? The windmill operated what is
known as a "pump jack" which operated a plunger pump - just like the
old hand operated pumps - so when the wind wasn't blowing you just
connected the handle and pumped manually

Those days are long gone.
If the power from the grid goes out, you're screwed, unless you have a
large generator, and good supply of gas to run it. Because if the power
goes out in the area, th gas stations have no way to sell gas.

The old ways were crude, but today's technology is really worse if there
is a power outage. I dont like being dependent on a company and being
helpless if they fail.

There's a saying "Only the strong survive".
However, I think this one makes more sense.
"Only the Smart survive".

I'm still considering designing or buying a wood powered steam engine.
There's plenty of dead trees nearby. Even if the whole economy
collapsed and there was no electric or gasoline, I could still get water
out of my well and provide other electrical needs. The problem is that
all this stuff is costly to buy or make, and the electric and other
energy companies make sure they take enough of our money so that we can
never afford to buy or build equipment to replace them. So day after
day, year after year, we rely on them and few of us are prepared for the
day the economy collapses or a major disaster wipes out our "sources for
outside power".

The problem with steam is you need a boiler engineers papers to run
it, and the boiler needs to be inspected at least annually - at
considerable cost. Insurance is hellish expensive too. - and you NEED
it.

With that in mind, I guess the real truth is this.
"Only the Smart (and wealthy) survive". Sad but true!

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:31:32 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:


Wrong. The old windmills were a piston pump, Operated by a "sucker
rod" that
when up and own run by the gear head on top of the tower. there was
no rotation other than the axle the fan was attached to. If there was
a way to make it work with horses, I never heard of
it. I suppose it wouild be possible but highly unlikely.

Harry K

You're right about the sucker rod and all of that.
Some also had a handle that you just hand pumped.
However, there were geared devices that would raise and lower it. I saw
such a thing at an antique machinery museum. This device could be run
by any rotating shaft, meaning a tractor PTO, any motor or engine, a
water wheel, and yes, a horse ring.

A horse ring looked similar to the pony rings used at carnivals where
the ponies go around in a circle. But it was for larger horses, as well
as donkeys, oxen, etc. They went in a circle, and the vertical shaft in
the middle of the ring was connected to a horizontal shaft via gears.
That shaft went outside of the ring and was connected to whatever needed
power from a rotating shaft. One drawback was that the horses had to
step over this horizontal shaft on every rotation. That took some
training. If I recall, the later versions ran the shaft underground or
overhead.

Look at these sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_mill

http://www.stubert.info/horse.html

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4/34...ill_Nadole.jpg
(photo)

http://www.akvo.org/wiki/index.php/H..._powered_pumps

To search for mo
Google these two lines.

horse driven mill

horse driven pump


Here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjzwDjEU9rQ

On Nov 1, 10:37*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:31:32 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:

Wrong. *The old windmills were a piston pump, *Operated by a "sucker
rod" that
when up and own run by the gear head on top of the tower. there was
no rotation other than the axle the fan was attached to. *If there was
a way to make it work with horses, I never heard of
it. *I suppose it wouild be possible but highly unlikely.

Harry K

You're right about the sucker rod and all of that.
Some also had a handle that you just hand pumped.
However, there were geared devices that would raise and lower it. *I saw
such a thing at an antique machinery museum. *This device could be run
by any rotating shaft, meaning a tractor PTO, any motor or engine, a
water wheel, and yes, a horse ring.

A horse ring looked similar to the pony rings used at carnivals where
the ponies go around in a circle. *But it was for larger horses, as well
as donkeys, oxen, etc. *They went in a circle, and the vertical shaft in
the middle of the ring was connected to a horizontal shaft via gears.
That shaft went outside of the ring and was connected to whatever needed
power from a rotating shaft. *One drawback was that the horses had to
step over this horizontal shaft on every rotation. *That took some
training. *If I recall, the later versions ran the shaft underground or
overhead.

Look at these sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_mill

http://www.stubert.info/horse.html

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4/34...ven_mill_Nadol...
(photo)

http://www.akvo.org/wiki/index.php/H..._powered_pumps

To search for mo
Google these two lines.

horse driven mill

horse driven pump

Here's a videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjzwDjEU9rQ

Yep, those were the UPCs of the horse days, ran everything that could
be connected to them.

I wasn't aware of the 'pump jack' one though. Thanks.

Harry K

On 11/2/2012 11:38 AM, Harry K wrote:
....

You're right about the sucker rod and all of that.
Some also had a handle that you just hand pumped.
However, there were geared devices that would raise and lower it. I saw
such a thing at an antique machinery museum. This device could be run
by any rotating shaft, meaning a tractor PTO, any motor or engine, a
water wheel, and yes, a horse ring.
....

Yep, those were the UPCs of the horse days, ran everything that could
be connected to them.

I wasn't aware of the 'pump jack' one though. Thanks.

We had a pump jack on the old windmill, but by the time I remember it
was an electric motor for use when the wind didn't blow steadily enough.
It wouldn't have been too hard to put a gasoline engine back, though,
if it had ever been such a long period w/o power _and_ wind as to have
made it necessary, of course, but I don't recall it ever having been needed.

The windmill was relegated to the mists of history in the late 50s/early
60s w/ the advent of the larger well when we increased number of cattle
to the point had to have more water than could produce from the windmill...

--