On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:48:30 -0600, wrote:

I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.
There are a LOT of third party battery suppliers that will sell you a
brand new battery for less than you can rebuild the original for.
I've purchased quite a few brand new batteries for under $50.

On 10/28/2012 3:48 PM, wrote:
I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.

It's a crap shoot.
Depends a lot on the technology and the vendor.
I've had zero luck with IBM. Once the "chip" shuts off, it's
all over.
Dells resort to an error condition, but the pack works.
Had one with a PIC processor...resetting the processor fixed it.
Others have no issues at all.
Got one that will charge, but the computer won't run on AC, it
defaults to battery. Only way to charge it is to leave it off.
Only way to run it on AC is to remove the battery.

You can buy software that claims to reset chips, but it costs
more than a new pack. And it requires some hardware.
Not clear if it's updated to the latest stuff.
I've never found resetting info on the web.

Where are you gonna get QUALITY new cells for less than the price of the
pack?

How are you gonna attach them? The fit is so tight in the plastic
that even tabbed cells are a problem. Where are you gonna put the
solder joint on the tab that still lets the case close.
I bought a tab welder that greatly simplifies the situation.

What are you gonna do about mismatched cells?

What are you gonna do when you pick the wrong cells and it
catches fire while your kid's surfing the web?
I've rebuilt several packs, but there's no way I'd sell one
in a used laptop. Liability risk is too high.

There are lots of how-to's on the web. Many resort to soldering
directly to the cells. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

I understand your pain, but unless you're rebuilding many
packs and are willing to invest in the equipment and training,
my advice is to give it up.

You can buy external batteries that plug in the ac adapter socket.
Not optimal, but they can work with different laptops.

Are we having fun yet?

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 15:19:53 -0700, mike wrote:

On 10/28/2012 3:48 PM, wrote:
I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.

It's a crap shoot.
Depends a lot on the technology and the vendor.
I've had zero luck with IBM. Once the "chip" shuts off, it's
all over.
Dells resort to an error condition, but the pack works.
Had one with a PIC processor...resetting the processor fixed it.
Others have no issues at all.
Got one that will charge, but the computer won't run on AC, it
defaults to battery. Only way to charge it is to leave it off.
Only way to run it on AC is to remove the battery.

You can buy software that claims to reset chips, but it costs
more than a new pack. And it requires some hardware.
Not clear if it's updated to the latest stuff.
I've never found resetting info on the web.

Where are you gonna get QUALITY new cells for less than the price of the
pack?

How are you gonna attach them? The fit is so tight in the plastic
that even tabbed cells are a problem. Where are you gonna put the
solder joint on the tab that still lets the case close.
I bought a tab welder that greatly simplifies the situation.

What are you gonna do about mismatched cells?

What are you gonna do when you pick the wrong cells and it
catches fire while your kid's surfing the web?
I've rebuilt several packs, but there's no way I'd sell one
in a used laptop. Liability risk is too high.

There are lots of how-to's on the web. Many resort to soldering
directly to the cells. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

I understand your pain, but unless you're rebuilding many
packs and are willing to invest in the equipment and training,
my advice is to give it up.

You can buy external batteries that plug in the ac adapter socket.
Not optimal, but they can work with different laptops.

Are we having fun yet?
What brand and model is the laptop? What is the battery part number?
What price have you been quoted?

I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.

On 10/28/2012 5:48 PM, wrote:
I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.


I've had battery packs rebuilt at Batteries Plus with good results. The
store can be somewhat more expensive than other places but the store
tech has the proper equipment to spot weld the tabs onto the individual
cells. The company also sells factory made laptop batteries at a fairly
competitive retail price. You may have a store in your area. I like to
spend money locally because I can get my hands around the throat of the
merchant if there's ever a problem with the product. ^_^

http://www.batteriesplus.com/

TDD

Ayuh. The Smrf approach to purchasing?
"Excellent service, or I'll choke you blue."

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

I've had battery packs rebuilt at Batteries Plus with good results. The
store can be somewhat more expensive than other places but the store
tech has the proper equipment to spot weld the tabs onto the individual
cells. The company also sells factory made laptop batteries at a fairly
competitive retail price. You may have a store in your area. I like to
spend money locally because I can get my hands around the throat of the
merchant if there's ever a problem with the product. ^_^

http://www.batteriesplus.com/

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 10/28/2012 5:48 PM, wrote:
I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.


I've had battery packs rebuilt at Batteries Plus with good results. The
store can be somewhat more expensive than other places but the store tech
has the proper equipment to spot weld the tabs onto the individual
cells. The company also sells factory made laptop batteries at a fairly
competitive retail price. You may have a store in your area. I like to
spend money locally because I can get my hands around the throat of the
merchant if there's ever a problem with the product. ^_^

http://www.batteriesplus.com/

TDD

I can vouch for Batteries Plus. There are two within a five mile radius from
me. I've never had a laptop battery rebuilt but have had tool batteries
rebuilt with great success and long lasting. As DD stated, they have
competitive pricing and if they don't have it, they can get it, though rare
if they don't have it.

wrote:

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers?

Tried to.

Can this be done?

Yes.

The problem is - because of insurance liability reasons, nobody - and I
mean NOBODY, will sell individual NiMH or Li-ion cells (the cells that
you find in battery packs) to consumers / end-users.

The risk is that the batteries can do nasty things (like explode or get
really hot and ignite) if they aren't recharged properly, and the only
way that "the powers that be" are satisfied about these batteries
getting into the hands of consumers is when they're sold as complete
units, with integrated charging / monitoring electronics built-in.

They want more than I paid for the computer for a replacement,
so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.

If you want to chance it, buy the cheapest battery-pack you can find
that has the same size of cells that you need - and when you get it,
take it apart and get the cells out of it and rebuild your battery pack
with them.

On Oct 28, 8:43*pm, Home Guy wrote:
wrote:
Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers?

Tried to.

Can this be done?

Yes.

The problem is - because of insurance liability reasons, nobody - and I
mean NOBODY, will sell individual NiMH or Li-ion cells (the cells that
you find in battery packs) to consumers / end-users.

The risk is that the batteries can do nasty things (like explode or get
really hot and ignite) if they aren't recharged properly, and the only
way that "the powers that be" are satisfied about these batteries
getting into the hands of consumers is when they're sold as complete
units, with integrated charging / monitoring electronics built-in.

They want more than I paid for the computer for a replacement,
so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.

If you want to chance it, buy the cheapest battery-pack you can find
that has the same size of cells that you need - and when you get it,
take it apart and get the cells out of it and rebuild your battery pack
with them.

theres talk of making it illegal to sell car repair parts to anyone
but a certified mechanic, since say brakes improperly installed could
create a ublic safety issue

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:48:30 -0600, wrote in
Re (OT) Rebuilding laptop
batteries:

I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.

Have you tried Amazon.com? I got a new replacement battery from them
for a 6 year old Dell laptop for $17.00. It works as well as the
original. However if you have an Apple laptop, just throw it away.

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 15:19:53 -0700, mike wrote:

It's a crap shoot.
Depends a lot on the technology and the vendor.
I've had zero luck with IBM. Once the "chip" shuts off, it's
all over.

What do you mean when you say "when the chip shuts off"?
Does the computer shut down when the battery gets too bad?

This is an IBM T-43 laptop.

Dells resort to an error condition, but the pack works.
Had one with a PIC processor...resetting the processor fixed it.
Others have no issues at all.
Got one that will charge, but the computer won't run on AC, it
defaults to battery. Only way to charge it is to leave it off.
Only way to run it on AC is to remove the battery.

Mine runs from the AC power cord just fine. I never tried it with the
battery removed.

You can buy software that claims to reset chips, but it costs
more than a new pack. And it requires some hardware.
Not clear if it's updated to the latest stuff.
I've never found resetting info on the web.

Please explain. Where is this chip and why does it fail?

snip

You can buy external batteries that plug in the ac adapter socket.
Not optimal, but they can work with different laptops.

I've seriously considered using an external battery such as a motorcycle
or garden tractor battery. They are small and light enough to carry
easily. 90% of the time I run this computer on AC or plug it into my
car's cigarette lighter. The internal battery only gives me about a
half hour these days, (even if I leave it plugged in all the time when
not in use), so it's becoming fairly useless. The meter says the
battery is only operating at 47% capacity. Considering that, a brand
new battery is only good for about an hour. I think an external battery
should last much longer, and can be charged with a common battery
charger too.

Are we having fun yet?

On 10/29/2012 2:26 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 15:19:53 -0700, wrote:

It's a crap shoot.
Depends a lot on the technology and the vendor.
I've had zero luck with IBM. Once the "chip" shuts off, it's
all over.

What do you mean when you say "when the chip shuts off"?
Does the computer shut down when the battery gets too bad?

This is an IBM T-43 laptop.

Dells resort to an error condition, but the pack works.
Had one with a PIC processor...resetting the processor fixed it.
Others have no issues at all.
Got one that will charge, but the computer won't run on AC, it
defaults to battery. Only way to charge it is to leave it off.
Only way to run it on AC is to remove the battery.

Mine runs from the AC power cord just fine. I never tried it with the
battery removed.

You can buy software that claims to reset chips, but it costs
more than a new pack. And it requires some hardware.
Not clear if it's updated to the latest stuff.
I've never found resetting info on the web.

Please explain. Where is this chip and why does it fail?

snip

You can buy external batteries that plug in the ac adapter socket.
Not optimal, but they can work with different laptops.

I've seriously considered using an external battery such as a motorcycle
or garden tractor battery. They are small and light enough to carry
easily. 90% of the time I run this computer on AC or plug it into my
car's cigarette lighter. The internal battery only gives me about a
half hour these days, (even if I leave it plugged in all the time when
not in use), so it's becoming fairly useless. The meter says the
battery is only operating at 47% capacity. Considering that, a brand
new battery is only good for about an hour. I think an external battery
should last much longer, and can be charged with a common battery
charger too.

Are we having fun yet?

OK, the "chip" is a small computer that keeps track of the battery
and communicates with the laptop. Depending on the battery technology
and the particular chip, there can be a lot going on.

The particular task important here is battery voltage monitoring.
The chip tells the laptop what it thinks the remaining capacity is.
The laptop is responsible for making sure that the battery is not
overcharged or undercharged. But the battery chip also knows what
are safe voltage levels and can disconnect the battery independent
of the laptop's wishes.

When overdischarged, lithium cells are not only dead, they're unsafe.
They can catch fire if you try to recharge them. Vendors don't like
lawsuits, so they're very conservative about how low the cells
can discharge. At some point, the chip PERMANENTLY disconnects
the cells and there's nothing you can do externally to turn them
back on. If you replace the cells, the voltage goes to zero
and the chip latches off. New cells won't help, the chip is
still turned off. They won't tell you how to turn it on from
the internal bus.
You'll find youtube videos on how people added power supplies to
keep the chip powered while replacing the cells "hot".
Another problem is that even if the chip doesn't turn the system
off, it sometimes remembers the old battery capacity and reports
that to the laptop which turns off based on the wrong number.
It's always something.

I haven't tried replacing cells on anything newer than about 2006 vintage
laptops. The safeguards seem to be more stringent with time.

My experience is that the primary failure mode for a laptop battery
is increased internal resistance. I built a computer-controlled
battery test system and verified that, at low current, a "bad"
laptop battery can deliver almost all of it's rated electrons.
But the laptop is a High current pulsed load.

The sense voltage is depressed by the internal series resistance
and the voltage sense shuts the system down while there's still
lots of electrons left to be had.
That's compounded by the resistance raising the sense voltage
under charge, so the charger shuts off before delivering the
full number of electrons.

This could be fixed, but there are factors that prevent that.

1)customers want the smallest/lightest laptop possible. Bigger battery
is not an option. Vendors advertise battery life under optimum
conditions on day one. After that, you're on your own.

2)there's more profit in a replacement battery than there was in the
whole laptop. That's why you don't find a standard battery that
works in any laptop. That would make it a commodity and kill
the profit margin.

Do not underestimate the safety issues in rebuilding battery packs.
Back in the day of NiCd packs, I blew up one. If I hadn't been wearing
safety glasses, I'd be typing this on a braille keyboard.

There's no way you'll save money rebuilding one or three packs.
If you have time on your hands and a lot of equipment, it can
be a fun hobby, until you get bored.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:26:26 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 15:19:53 -0700, mike wrote:

It's a crap shoot.
Depends a lot on the technology and the vendor.
I've had zero luck with IBM. Once the "chip" shuts off, it's
all over.

What do you mean when you say "when the chip shuts off"?
Does the computer shut down when the battery gets too bad?

This is an IBM T-43 laptop.

Dells resort to an error condition, but the pack works.
Had one with a PIC processor...resetting the processor fixed it.
Others have no issues at all.
Got one that will charge, but the computer won't run on AC, it
defaults to battery. Only way to charge it is to leave it off.
Only way to run it on AC is to remove the battery.

Mine runs from the AC power cord just fine. I never tried it with the
battery removed.

You can buy software that claims to reset chips, but it costs
more than a new pack. And it requires some hardware.
Not clear if it's updated to the latest stuff.
I've never found resetting info on the web.

Please explain. Where is this chip and why does it fail?

All Lithium Ion battery packs have battery management systems built in
to protect the cells. If the battery goes "dead" the battery
management system shuts down and the battery cannot be recharged
without resetting the battery manager - some can be easily reset -
some are difficult, and some are impossible. No problem on NIMH
batteries.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:29:53 -0700, mike wrote:

You'll find youtube videos on how people added power supplies to
keep the chip powered while replacing the cells "hot".
Another problem is that even if the chip doesn't turn the system
off, it sometimes remembers the old battery capacity and reports
that to the laptop which turns off based on the wrong number.
It's always something.

If the computer remembers the battery capacity, what happens if a person
gets a new battery? If the old battery was at (example 25%), then a
brand new battery will only work at 25%.

I never knew it was so complicated to change a battery in these laptops.
I think my plan to rig up an external motorcycle battery pack is looking
better by the minute. I did remove the battery yesterday and was able
to run the computer via power cord connected to AC outlet. If that
battery is gonna shut down the computer so I cant use it at all, I wont
be putting it back. From now on it will operate off AC or an external
battery only.

Thanks for the extensive info about this.

On 10/30/2012 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:29:53 -0700, wrote:

You'll find youtube videos on how people added power supplies to
keep the chip powered while replacing the cells "hot".
Another problem is that even if the chip doesn't turn the system
off, it sometimes remembers the old battery capacity and reports
that to the laptop which turns off based on the wrong number.
It's always something.

If the computer remembers the battery capacity, what happens if a person
gets a new battery? If the old battery was at (example 25%), then a
brand new battery will only work at 25%.

I never knew it was so complicated to change a battery in these laptops.
I think my plan to rig up an external motorcycle battery pack is looking
better by the minute. I did remove the battery yesterday and was able
to run the computer via power cord connected to AC outlet. If that
battery is gonna shut down the computer so I cant use it at all,

no,no,no...the battery pack can shut itself down, but it won't hurt
your laptop.
The situation that causes the pack to shut itself down is when you
discharge it and set it on the self for years. Happens a lot with
used laptops that sat in the basement for years before they showed
up at the estate sale.

The primary reason I mentioned it is that when you disconnect the
cells to replace them, the chip triggers the shutdown mechanism
and you may not be able to recover a working pack even tho it has
new cells.

I wont
be putting it back. From now on it will operate off AC or an external
battery only.

Thanks for the extensive info about this.



That's not what I said.
I said the "chip" (inside the battery pack) may remember the old capacity.
The chips I've looked at track the battery capacity as it goes
down. But they have no ability to track it if it goes up.
Cuz, it never happens in a battery pack that hasn't been tampered.

Changing a battery is trivial.
Changing the cells inside a battery is not. There's a lot of
secrecy around the process so they can keep charging you big bux
for new battery packs...and keep you from setting yourself on fire.

CRNG wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:48:30 -0600, wrote in
Re (OT) Rebuilding laptop
batteries:

I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.

Have you tried Amazon.com? I got a new replacement battery from them
for a 6 year old Dell laptop for $17.00. It works as well as the
original. However if you have an Apple laptop, just throw it away.

I got one for my Toshiba laptop from e-bay. 18 dollars free
shipping. Some instructions were with it, conditioning of the new
battery information. First time I've seen that. The battery seems OK
considering the cost.

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 18:16:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:48:30 -0600, wrote:

I'm asking this question on here because I've read several times about
some of you rebuilding the battery packs for cordless tools.

Have any of you rebuilt the battery packs for laptop computers? Can
this be done? They want more than I paid for the computer for a
replacement, so it's either rebuild it, or replace the computer and just
use the old computer where there is an outlet.
There are a LOT of third party battery suppliers that will sell you a
brand new battery for less than you can rebuild the original for.
I've purchased quite a few brand new batteries for under $50.

I replaced my ThinkPad battery with an off-brand. I think it was $30.
Lenovo wanted more than $120. Works fine.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:16:03 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:29:53 -0700, mike wrote:

You'll find youtube videos on how people added power supplies to
keep the chip powered while replacing the cells "hot".
Another problem is that even if the chip doesn't turn the system
off, it sometimes remembers the old battery capacity and reports
that to the laptop which turns off based on the wrong number.
It's always something.

If the computer remembers the battery capacity, what happens if a person
gets a new battery? If the old battery was at (example 25%), then a
brand new battery will only work at 25%.

The batteries have a serial number. The laptop can keep track of
several batteries.

I never knew it was so complicated to change a battery in these laptops.
I think my plan to rig up an external motorcycle battery pack is looking
better by the minute. I did remove the battery yesterday and was able
to run the computer via power cord connected to AC outlet. If that
battery is gonna shut down the computer so I cant use it at all, I wont
be putting it back. From now on it will operate off AC or an external
battery only.

I replaced mine with no problems. The laptop died recently (other
problems) but the off-brand battery bought me couple of years.

Thanks for the extensive info about this.