The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Dick

Dick Adams wrote:
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.



http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

On Oct 20, 8:39*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. *According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. *The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Dick

Go to your local flooring store and look at all the options. You
don't say why you want to get a new floor. You don't say if you have
any potential water problems, how much ceiling clearance there is,
what sort of walls/wall treatments there are. How long are you
planning on staying in the house? If you are looking for cheap and
fast, a layer of epoxy garage floor type paint might do. You could
put a new layer of vinyl tile down if the present floor is smooth.
What activities are there in the basement. Teenagers might call for
something different than if you have amodel railroad setup, etc.

Bob F wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

Having scraped up a tile floor in the 60's, that looks like
a great tool! Thanks.

hr(bob) wrote:
(Dick Adams) wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. ?The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Go to your local flooring store and look at all the options. You
don't say why you want to get a new floor. You don't say if you have
any potential water problems, how much ceiling clearance there is,
what sort of walls/wall treatments there are. How long are you
planning on staying in the house? If you are looking for cheap and
fast, a layer of epoxy garage floor type paint might do. You could
put a new layer of vinyl tile down if the present floor is smooth.
What activities are there in the basement. Teenagers might call for
something different than if you have amodel railroad setup, etc.

I'm planning on being out of here in 3 to 7 years and I would
rather spend labor while I'm still able to spend it.

I'll have to go back and look, but I recall reading that you were
not suppose to paint over it or apply a floor leveling compound
to it.

Thanks

On Oct 20, 9:20*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
(Dick Adams) wrote:
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. ?The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.
Go to your local flooring store and look at all the options. *You
don't say why you want to get a new floor. *You don't say if you have
any potential water problems, how much ceiling clearance there is,
what sort of walls/wall treatments there are. *How long are you
planning on staying in the house? *If you are looking for cheap and
fast, a layer of epoxy garage floor type paint might do. *You could
put a new layer of vinyl tile down if the present floor is smooth.
What activities are there in the basement. *Teenagers might call for
something different than if you have amodel railroad setup, etc.

I'm planning on being out of here in 3 to 7 years and I would
rather spend labor while I'm still able to spend it.

I'll have to go back and look, but I recall reading that you were
not suppose to paint over it or apply a floor leveling compound
to it.

Thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the current floor is adhering to the concrete under it, and
moisture is not a problem, there should not be a problem. I have
tiles on my basement floor, and have almost all of it covered with an
industrial grade of short-nubbed carpeting, Only my workshop area is
uncovered tile. I would epoxy paint it if I had to do something.

Dick:

This is not nearly as difficult a job as you're probably thinking it is.

Please meet the Crain Model 700 electric floor stripping machine:



It's probably the most popular floor stripping machine in the world.

Phone around to any of the carpet retailers in your area and ask to speak to the installations manager. Ask the installations manager who sells flooring installation supplies in your area, and whether or not they rent floor stripping machines. If they do, they'll probably rent the Crain 700. And, yes, they will rent to you, and if they don't Home Depot will probably have these available for rent too.

Quite honestly, if these are either 12 inch square vinyl asbestos tiles or 9 inch square asphalt tiles, stripping those tiles off the whole area you're talking about shouldn't take more than 3 or 4 hours using a rented flooring stripper.

Once you get the tile off the floor, the best product I know of for removing the black glue holding it down is a product called "Oil Flo" or "Oil Flo 141" both made by Titan Labs of Sunnyvale, California.



I've used Oil Flo to remove asphaltic adhesive, and it does a good job, but I've never used Oil Flo 141, which I understand is formulated specifically for removing black asphaltic vinyl tile adhesive (commonly called "cut back" adhesive). You can do almost as good a job by:
1. dissolving the old adhesive in mineral spirits,
2. mixing a detergent like Mr. Clean or Simple Green into the dissolved adhesive,
3. adding water to emulsify the mineral spirits,
4. and then vaccuuming up the liquid mess with a wet/dry vaccuum cleaner.

To my knowledge, both Oil Flo and Oil Flo 141 are simply a detergent (like Mr. Clean or Simple Green) mixed with a hydrocarbon solvent (like mineral spirits).

Finally, about the asbestos issue, and some people might not believe this, but did you know that the airborne asbestos levels in the parks around San Fransisco were measured to be 50 times greater than the OSHA would allow in a workplace without the employer providing protective respiratory equipment to the employees?

It's true. Asbestos is one of the most common rocks in the Earth's crust, and there are places where outcroppings of asbestos bearing rock come to the surface, making regular exposure to airborne asbestos fibers inevitable. Any construction project that disturbs that asbestos bearing rock puts asbestos fibers into the air.

Essentially all of the bedrock in California is asbestos bearing. Much of it is in the form of a rock called "Serpentine". Serpentine rock was used to make the gravel roads in the state parks around San Fransisco, and when cars drove over those gravel roads, the car tires would grind the Serpentine stones against each other creating clowds of airborne asbestos fibers. But, this was before Mesothelioma started showing up in people who worked in the asbestos industry, so people at the time thought nothing of it. California has since passed laws that require that the gravel used to make gravel roads in that state have a Serpentine content of less than 0.05 percent (IIRC).

You should also know that until recently (I believe it was 2000 or so), the USA was importing brakes shoes and disk brake pads made from asbestos from China. Apparantly, a baby squabble erupted between different branches of the government as to who had jurisdiction over imported auto parts. No one wanted it. So, until about the year 2000 the US was importing asbestos brake shoes and brake pads from China while banning the use of asbestos in the same products manufactured in the USA. Go figure.

Did you know that the bedrock around the Great Lakes is all asbestos bearing rock? Rain erodes that rock and washes asbestos into the rivers and streams that feed the Great Lakes. Duluth, Minnesota gets it's drinking water from Lake Superior, and the citizens of Duluth swallow about 3000 asbestos fibers with every glass of tap water they drink.

All of this information was on the OSHA's web site before they took it off. And, if you don't believe me, read the "Asbestos News" section of the Mesothelioma Center's website he

Mesothelioma News Center | Latest in Asbestos & Mesothelioma News

The Mesothelioma Center appears to me to be a web site put up by some ambulance chasing lawyers who want to represent you if you've contracted mesothelioma. The problem is that asbestos-related lung cancers can take up to 50 years to show up after you're first exposed to asbestos, so it's impossible to tell where and when a person actually contracted the disease. And, without being able to prove that, all you have is a hefty lawyer's bill, and the disease.

If you ask me, the reason why people in San Fransisco are living to ripe old ages and we aren't seeing auto mechanics that specialize in brake and clutch replacement all coming down with mesothelioma is because we've been living with asbestos in the environment for the 3 million years we've been evolving from apes, and during the millions of years before that during which the apes evolved from crawling fish, and so we've acquired some resistance to it. But, we're all different and so some of us are more resistant to it than others. And, of course, we're all exposed to different amounts of asbestos depending on where we live and where we work.

But, the bottom line here is that asbestos is abundant in the Earth's crust and erosion happens, and that means we're all exposed to asbestos to some degree every time we go outdoors.

Hope this helps.

Dick Adams wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

Having scraped up a tile floor in the 60's, that looks like
a great tool! Thanks.

Even cheaper is a scraper blade for your reciprocating saw, about ten bucks.
It's available at the box store and can be re-sharpened.

Here's a bucket-load of them;
http://www.google.com/search?q=recip...1021&bih =473

On Oct 20, 11:04*pm, nestork wrote:
...snip...
If you ask me, the reason why people in San Fransisco are living to ripe
old ages and we aren't seeing auto mechanics that specialize in brake
and clutch replacement all coming down with mesothelioma is because
we've been living with asbestos in the environment for the 3 million
years we've been evolving from apes, and during the millions of years
before that during which the apes evolved from crawling fish, and so
we've acquired some resistance to it. *But, we're all different and so
some of us are more resistant to it than others. *And, of course, we're
all exposed to different amounts of asbestos depending on where we live
and where we work.

But, the bottom line here is that asbestos is abundant in the Earth's
crust and erosion happens, and that means we're all exposed to asbestos
to some degree every time we go outdoors.

Hope this helps.

--
nestork

It is my understanding that there are two types of asbestos. One type,
which is fairly rare and of noticeable texture, causes mesothelioma
and sometimes this type was used in insulation products. The other
type, which is much more comon and was used everywhere - insulation,
tiles, etc etc does not cause mesothelioma. Further, that this
differentiation was forgotten during the asbestos scare. Then after
being remembered; the asbestos bruhaha quietly went away with 'weak'
explanations like the floor tile safely contains the asbestos so you
can remove it as a DIY project. But still not telling the complete
truth that the asbestos is actually the second type, not to worry,
just be prudent in breathing the dust.

On 10/21/2012 10:26 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
On Oct 20, 11:04 pm, nestork wrote:
...snip...
If you ask me, the reason why people in San Fransisco are living to ripe
old ages and we aren't seeing auto mechanics that specialize in brake
and clutch replacement all coming down with mesothelioma is because
we've been living with asbestos in the environment for the 3 million
years we've been evolving from apes, and during the millions of years
before that during which the apes evolved from crawling fish, and so
we've acquired some resistance to it. But, we're all different and so
some of us are more resistant to it than others. And, of course, we're
all exposed to different amounts of asbestos depending on where we live
and where we work.

But, the bottom line here is that asbestos is abundant in the Earth's
crust and erosion happens, and that means we're all exposed to asbestos
to some degree every time we go outdoors.

Hope this helps.

--
nestork

It is my understanding that there are two types of asbestos. One type,
which is fairly rare and of noticeable texture, causes mesothelioma
and sometimes this type was used in insulation products. The other
type, which is much more comon and was used everywhere - insulation,
tiles, etc etc does not cause mesothelioma. Further, that this
differentiation was forgotten during the asbestos scare. Then after
being remembered; the asbestos bruhaha quietly went away with 'weak'
explanations like the floor tile safely contains the asbestos so you
can remove it as a DIY project. But still not telling the complete
truth that the asbestos is actually the second type, not to worry,
just be prudent in breathing the dust.


There was a story I read about a young woman scientist working for The
EPA who pointed out to her bosses there that only one type of asbestos
was a danger. She was ordered to keep her mouth shut because the people
would literally hunt them down and do unspeakable things to them because
of the billions of dollars the agency forced people to spend in
unnecessary cleanup work. Real or not? I don't know but it sounded just
like all the other junk science government uses to financially destroy
the citizenry. O_o

TDD

Dick be aware of; that some communities have very strict laws about
any material that has asbestos in it, before you start removal job
fines can be very high get some information how to get read of tiles first.

"Dick Adams" wrote in message ...
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Dick

On 10/20/2012 9:09 PM, Dick Adams wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

Having scraped up a tile floor in the 60's, that looks like
a great tool! Thanks.


But is it legal for a DIY asbestos tile removal project? All the
publications I've read on it say that such tile may only be removed
using manual tools. Power tools are not allowed. This one in
particular looks iffy because it uses air, and you don't want to be
blowing asbestos-laced dust about.

No, I hadn't heard that. I know that there are different kinds of mesothelioma but I never read anything about there being different kinds of asbestos. However, it would seem reasonable that there are different kinds of asbestos.

I hadn't heard that either.

My point is that asbestos is another Burmuda Triangle. It's abundant in the Earth's crust, and in many places around the globe, asbestos bearing rock extends right to the surface of the Earth. People living in those areas cannot avoid exposure to asbestos.

But, we simply don't see people living in those areas contracting lung cancer at any higher rates than normal. So, the only reasonable conclusion that can be made is that we don't really understand the effects of asbestos exposure, and why some people are more sensitive to it than others.

But, it's not a new story. We don't understand why some people are so sensitive to peanuts that they can die from eating peanut butter. We don't understand why some people can smoke cigarettes their whole life and get run over by a bus when they're 98 years old, and others can smoke half a pack a week and get lung cancer when they're 40. I think we just need to recognized that when it comes to asbestos, what we know is pitifully small compared to what we have yet to learn about it.

Put asbestos in the same bag as the Burmuda Triangle, UFO's and the Salem witches.

Grumpy wrote:
Dick be aware of; that some communities have very strict laws about
any material that has asbestos in it, before you start removal job
fines can be very high get some information how to get read of tiles
first.

On the other hand, if you call attention to yourself - by inquiring or
requesting a permit - you will come under scrutiny by your betters.

No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:02:51 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Grumpy wrote:
Dick be aware of; that some communities have very strict laws about
any material that has asbestos in it, before you start removal job
fines can be very high get some information how to get read of tiles
first.

On the other hand, if you call attention to yourself - by inquiring or
requesting a permit - you will come under scrutiny by your betters.

No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

Just deliver them to your local dump along with other household
garbage - well bagged.

well heres a little detail that could come back to bite the property
owner bad

So they do a DIY asbestos tile removal, when the home is up for sale
the law requires they disclose this and what they did,,,,,

now say you dont disclose the asbestos tile removal and anyone knows
you did it, and tells the new owner. the new owner can bring a lawsuit
and take the $$$ out of your account even years later...

they would demand a pro clean up, and environmental tests, imagine if
you happen to live in a asbestos prone area....... they could demand
the home must be cleaner than the outside

A close by neighbor failed to disclose their bad sewer line, the new
owner had a flooded basement, found out about the cover up, and won
15 grand in sewer line replacement plus court costs....

disclosing is the best way to go

wrote in message
...


No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

Just deliver them to your local dump along with other household
garbage - well bagged.

That is exactly what I would do. It is an accepted method and legal.

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
well heres a little detail that could come back to bite the property
owner bad

So they do a DIY asbestos tile removal, when the home is up for sale
the law requires they disclose this and what they did,,,,,

now say you dont disclose the asbestos tile removal and anyone knows
you did it, and tells the new owner. the new owner can bring a lawsuit
and take the $$$ out of your account even years later...

they would demand a pro clean up, and environmental tests, imagine if
you happen to live in a asbestos prone area....... they could demand
the home must be cleaner than the outside

A close by neighbor failed to disclose their bad sewer line, the new
owner had a flooded basement, found out about the cover up, and won
15 grand in sewer line replacement plus court costs....

disclosing is the best way to go

Maybe.

In the case of the sewer line, it was an on going problem that caused lots
of damage. Pretty plain and simple to figure out.

In the case of asbestos removal, you'd have to prove it was done and when.
Perhaps it was removed before the regulations. Just knowing it was there
and no problems occur, I doubt you'd get very far. If you buy any house
built before 1978, you just never know. Buy a house built in the 40's or
50's and you can be 90% sure it had asbestos tile if there is basement
tiles.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:36:30 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .


No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

Just deliver them to your local dump along with other household
garbage - well bagged.

That is exactly what I would do. It is an accepted method and legal.

It came from the ground. Put it back where it came from.

On Oct 21, 4:24*pm, nestork wrote:
...nip....
Put asbestos in the same bag as the Burmuda Triangle, UFO's and the
Salem witches.

--
nestork

hmmm...Isn't...
Bermuda Triangle an example of "selective memory"?
UFO's exist, appear in scripture.?
Salem Witches was an example of greed, a "land grab' scheme?

On 10/21/2012 9:48 PM, bob haller wrote:
well heres a little detail that could come back to bite the property
owner bad

So they do a DIY asbestos tile removal, when the home is up for sale
the law requires they disclose this and what they did,,,,,

now say you dont disclose the asbestos tile removal and anyone knows
you did it, and tells the new owner. the new owner can bring a lawsuit
and take the $$$ out of your account even years later...

they would demand a pro clean up, and environmental tests, imagine if
you happen to live in a asbestos prone area....... they could demand
the home must be cleaner than the outside
....

Well, again, you've taken a basic tenet and turned it into a tale of
unmitigated woe, Haller...

The risks (and therefore mitigation requirements and need for licensed
contractors, etc.) are _HIGHLY_ dependent upon the form in which the
asbestos is present. The risk from asbestos exposure is virtually all
in the friable, airborne particles that come from such applications as
the insulation products or the very fine dust that accumulated from,
say, brake linings that were airborne when using an air gun to clean
drums during replacements.

Vinyl/asbestos floor tile and the like are essentially non-friable
products and have very little dust-making propensity even when broken in
removal unless one goes out of one's way to create such dust.

So, while it probably is worthwhile to note the tiles were removed, it
surely isn't anything at all likely that any future buyer has any real
actionable cause even if not assuming even a modicum of care and cleanup
was taken in their removal. The chances of any inspection uncovering
asbestos in a friable, dangerous condition would be near zero unless the
tiles were deliberately ground to a powder and spread around. You might
as well claim they need to rewire and replace every panel box on general
principles, too.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/licensing/asbestos-work-categories.pdf

--

On Oct 22, 9:38*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...





well heres a little detail that could come back to bite the property
owner bad

So they do a DIY asbestos tile removal, when the home is up for sale
the law requires they disclose this and what they did,,,,,

now say you dont disclose the asbestos tile removal and anyone knows
you did it, and tells the new owner. the new owner can bring a lawsuit
and take the $$$ out of your account even years later...

they would demand a pro clean up, and environmental tests, imagine if
you happen to live in a asbestos prone area....... they could demand
the home must be cleaner than the outside

A close by neighbor failed to disclose their bad sewer line, the new
owner had a flooded basement, found out about the cover up, and *won
15 grand in sewer line replacement plus court costs....

disclosing is the best way to go

Maybe.

In the case of the sewer line, it was an on going problem that caused lots
of damage. *Pretty plain and simple to figure out.

In the case of asbestos removal, you'd have to prove it was done and when..
Perhaps it was removed before the regulations. *Just knowing it was there
and no problems occur, I doubt you'd get very far. *If you buy any house
built before 1978, you just never know. *Buy a house built in the 40's or
50's and you can be 90% sure it had asbestos tile if there is basement
tiles.

lets assume the seller fails to disclose it, the new buyer moves in
and a neigbor reports they had tile and removed it themselves.

the new owner has testing done for asbestos, it comes back positive
and the home has to get asbestos professional cleaned.

the old owner is on the fancial hook for every expense involved
including temporary housing for the family while home and all their
possesions get professional cleaned, legal fees, etc etc.. because
they failed to disclose the issue.

its better to disclose, because that way the old owner isnt liable for
clean up at a future date, although it may cost them a sale

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:27:03 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Oct 22, 9:38Â*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...





well heres a little detail that could come back to bite the property
owner bad

So they do a DIY asbestos tile removal, when the home is up for sale
the law requires they disclose this and what they did,,,,,

now say you dont disclose the asbestos tile removal and anyone knows
you did it, and tells the new owner. the new owner can bring a lawsuit
and take the $$$ out of your account even years later...

they would demand a pro clean up, and environmental tests, imagine if
you happen to live in a asbestos prone area....... they could demand
the home must be cleaner than the outside

A close by neighbor failed to disclose their bad sewer line, the new
owner had a flooded basement, found out about the cover up, and Â*won
15 grand in sewer line replacement plus court costs....

disclosing is the best way to go

Maybe.

In the case of the sewer line, it was an on going problem that caused lots
of damage. Â*Pretty plain and simple to figure out.

In the case of asbestos removal, you'd have to prove it was done and when.
Perhaps it was removed before the regulations. Â*Just knowing it was there
and no problems occur, I doubt you'd get very far. Â*If you buy any house
built before 1978, you just never know. Â*Buy a house built in the 40's or
50's and you can be 90% sure it had asbestos tile if there is basement
tiles.

lets assume the seller fails to disclose it, the new buyer moves in
and a neigbor reports they had tile and removed it themselves.

the new owner has testing done for asbestos, it comes back positive
and the home has to get asbestos professional cleaned.

the old owner is on the fancial hook for every expense involved
including temporary housing for the family while home and all their
possesions get professional cleaned, legal fees, etc etc.. because
they failed to disclose the issue.

its better to disclose, because that way the old owner isnt liable for
clean up at a future date, although it may cost them a sale
If I was buying I'd rather have it already removed than have to
remove it myself. Worst case scenario you end up paying to have
testing done in order to sell - chances of any problem turning up are
very very slim to none.

On 10/22/2012 12:27 PM, bob haller wrote:
....

lets assume the seller fails to disclose it, the new buyer moves in
and a neigbor reports they had tile and removed it themselves.

the new owner has testing done for asbestos, it comes back positive
and the home has to get asbestos professional cleaned.

the old owner is on the fancial hook for every expense involved
including temporary housing for the family while home and all their
possesions get professional cleaned, legal fees, etc etc.. because
they failed to disclose the issue.

its better to disclose, because that way the old owner isnt liable for
clean up at a future date, although it may cost them a sale

Again, you manage to make the most innocuous event into a major
calamity, Haller, first by presuming a bunch of events that are highly
unlikely to occur (excepting for a neighbor like---well, maybe I ought
not complete that explicitly ) and then blowing up a negligible or
perhaps very minor hazard at worst to begin into a problem of the first
magnitude.

Disclosure of known defects and conditions is a requirement, yes.
Covering up a major defect that has clearly been a problem to the
current owner is stupid and deservedly should come back and bite them,
also yes. Spreading FUD as a high risk event on the basis of something
as superficial as vinyl-asbestos tile is simply ludicrous and failing
completely to have any concept whatsoever of what asbestos exposures
actually have any risk associated with them. See the table in the link
posted earlier.

--

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:37:31 -0400, wrote:



If I was buying I'd rather have it already removed than have to
remove it myself. Worst case scenario you end up paying to have
testing done in order to sell - chances of any problem turning up are
very very slim to none.

If I was buying, I'd just leave it in place. It is not bothering
anyone unless it is an ugly color.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:27:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:37:31 -0400, wrote:



If I was buying I'd rather have it already removed than have to
remove it myself. Worst case scenario you end up paying to have
testing done in order to sell - chances of any problem turning up are
very very slim to none.

If I was buying, I'd just leave it in place. It is not bothering
anyone unless it is an ugly color.
I just don't like tiled basement floors.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:27:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:37:31 -0400, wrote:



If I was buying I'd rather have it already removed than have to
remove it myself. Worst case scenario you end up paying to have
testing done in order to sell - chances of any problem turning up are
very very slim to none.

The buyer normally pays for such testing.

If I was buying, I'd just leave it in place. It is not bothering
anyone unless it is an ugly color.

If it is, cover it.

On Oct 22, 4:28*pm, dpb wrote:
On 10/22/2012 12:27 PM, bob haller wrote:
...

lets assume the seller fails to disclose it, the new buyer moves in
and a neigbor reports *they had tile and removed it themselves.

the new owner has testing done for asbestos, it comes back positive
and the home has to get asbestos professional cleaned.

the old owner is on the fancial hook for every expense involved
including temporary housing for the family while home and all their
possesions get professional cleaned, legal fees, etc etc.. because
they failed to disclose the issue.

its better to disclose, because that way the old owner isnt liable for
clean up at a future date, although it may cost them a sale

Again, you manage to make the most innocuous event into a major
calamity, Haller, first by presuming a bunch of events that are highly
unlikely to occur (excepting for a neighbor like---well, maybe I ought
not complete that explicitly ) and then blowing up a negligible or
perhaps very minor hazard at worst to begin into a problem of the first
magnitude.

Disclosure of known defects and conditions is a requirement, yes.
Covering up a major defect that has clearly been a problem to the
current owner is stupid and deservedly should come back and bite them,
also yes. *Spreading FUD as a high risk event on the basis of something
as superficial as vinyl-asbestos tile is simply ludicrous and failing
completely to have any concept whatsoever of what asbestos exposures
actually have any risk associated with them. *See the table in the link
posted earlier.

--

today anyone can sue over anything, and the costs can be a killer even
if the buyer looses.

my advice is to disclose it, the worst that can occur is a lost sale,
or perhaps having to get a asbestos check.

many people think asbestos is instant death, their perception is heir
realty....

and at least in PA the disclosure statement talked of any past problem
and what was dione to fix it

again my point no matter what anyone believes about asbetsos its
better to disclose it!!!

On 10/22/2012 11:08 PM, bob haller wrote:
....

again my point no matter what anyone believes about asbetsos its
better to disclose it!!!

If you would have stopped there, ok...but, also, again, what the _form_
asbestos is in makes all the difference.

--

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:08:34 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

On Oct 22, 4:28*pm, dpb wrote:
On 10/22/2012 12:27 PM, bob haller wrote:
...

lets assume the seller fails to disclose it, the new buyer moves in
and a neigbor reports *they had tile and removed it themselves.

the new owner has testing done for asbestos, it comes back positive
and the home has to get asbestos professional cleaned.

the old owner is on the fancial hook for every expense involved
including temporary housing for the family while home and all their
possesions get professional cleaned, legal fees, etc etc.. because
they failed to disclose the issue.

its better to disclose, because that way the old owner isnt liable for
clean up at a future date, although it may cost them a sale

Again, you manage to make the most innocuous event into a major
calamity, Haller, first by presuming a bunch of events that are highly
unlikely to occur (excepting for a neighbor like---well, maybe I ought
not complete that explicitly ) and then blowing up a negligible or
perhaps very minor hazard at worst to begin into a problem of the first
magnitude.

Disclosure of known defects and conditions is a requirement, yes.
Covering up a major defect that has clearly been a problem to the
current owner is stupid and deservedly should come back and bite them,
also yes. *Spreading FUD as a high risk event on the basis of something
as superficial as vinyl-asbestos tile is simply ludicrous and failing
completely to have any concept whatsoever of what asbestos exposures
actually have any risk associated with them. *See the table in the link
posted earlier.

--

today anyone can sue over anything, and the costs can be a killer even
if the buyer looses.

my advice is to disclose it, the worst that can occur is a lost sale,
or perhaps having to get a asbestos check.

many people think asbestos is instant death, their perception is heir
realty....

and at least in PA the disclosure statement talked of any past problem
and what was dione to fix it

again my point no matter what anyone believes about asbetsos its
better to disclose it!!!

You only disclose what you know. This is a good reason one NEVER TESTS for
asbestos, or any of the other loony leftist sky-is-falling nonsense. One you
know of an issue, you must disclose it. Bottom line, just remove the tiles,
if they're ugly. Done.

On 10/22/2012 11:08 PM, bob haller wrote:
....

today anyone can sue over anything, and the costs can be a killer even
if the buyer looses.

....
and at least in PA the disclosure statement talked of any past problem
and what was dione to fix it
....

There has to _be_ a problem first and there isn't/wasn't any problem
here except the one you dreamed up out of your apparently inflated
fearful imagination or from you desire to spread FUD and mostly
_dis_information.

--

Remove the old cut back adhesive that held those old tiles down, too. It probably also has asbestos in it.

(But, it poses little danger as long as the floor is wet with the cleaning chemicals and/or water, there's not gonna be much airborne asbestos released.)

On Oct 21, 10:48*pm, bob haller wrote:
well heres a little detail that could come back to bite the property
owner bad

So they do a DIY asbestos tile removal, when the home is up for sale
the law requires they disclose this and what they did,,,,,

It's a big IF as to whether a state would require it to be
disclosed at time of sale. AFAIK, in most places
it's legal for a homeowner to remove their own floor tile that
contains asbestos. I can show you states that outline the
procedure, etc. Assuming you do it and follow the guidelines,
unless the state you happen to be living in specifically requires
disclosure of such removal when you go to sell, then you have
nothing to disclose. There may be some states that do
require it to be disclosed, but I don't believe it's the general
case.




now say you dont disclose the asbestos tile removal and anyone knows
you did it, and tells the new owner. the new owner can bring a lawsuit
and take the $$$ out of your account even years later...

$$$ out of what account? They can't access any accounts
you have unless they sue you, win and you don't pay. And
when suing, they have some substantial burdens to overcome.
And even after that, they have to prove actual damages as a result.




they would demand a pro clean up,

They can't demand a pro clean-up if there is no law that
says a homeowner can't do it themselves, there is no
contamination, etc. Now if they do testing and find
contamination, then they have grounds to proceed.



and environmental tests, imagine if
you happen to live in a asbestos prone area....... they could demand
the home must be cleaner than the outside

A close by neighbor failed to disclose their bad sewer line, the new
owner had a flooded basement, found out about the cover up, and *won
15 grand in sewer line replacement plus court costs....

disclosing is the best way to go

Having a bad sewer line that you know about and fail to
disclose is an entirely different ballgame. In that case, there
is an existing problem. In the case of the tile, if you are
permitted to remove it yourself, do so, and are unaware of
any problem, then you have no existing problem.