The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Dick

Dick Adams wrote:
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.



http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

Bob F wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

Having scraped up a tile floor in the 60's, that looks like
a great tool! Thanks.

Dick Adams wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

Having scraped up a tile floor in the 60's, that looks like
a great tool! Thanks.

Even cheaper is a scraper blade for your reciprocating saw, about ten bucks.
It's available at the box store and can be re-sharpened.

Here's a bucket-load of them;
http://www.google.com/search?q=recip...1021&bih =473

On 10/20/2012 9:09 PM, Dick Adams wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

http://www.harborfreight.com/long-re...per-37073.html

Having scraped up a tile floor in the 60's, that looks like
a great tool! Thanks.


But is it legal for a DIY asbestos tile removal project? All the
publications I've read on it say that such tile may only be removed
using manual tools. Power tools are not allowed. This one in
particular looks iffy because it uses air, and you don't want to be
blowing asbestos-laced dust about.

On Oct 20, 8:39*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. *According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. *The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Dick

Go to your local flooring store and look at all the options. You
don't say why you want to get a new floor. You don't say if you have
any potential water problems, how much ceiling clearance there is,
what sort of walls/wall treatments there are. How long are you
planning on staying in the house? If you are looking for cheap and
fast, a layer of epoxy garage floor type paint might do. You could
put a new layer of vinyl tile down if the present floor is smooth.
What activities are there in the basement. Teenagers might call for
something different than if you have amodel railroad setup, etc.

Dick:

This is not nearly as difficult a job as you're probably thinking it is.

Please meet the Crain Model 700 electric floor stripping machine:



It's probably the most popular floor stripping machine in the world.

Phone around to any of the carpet retailers in your area and ask to speak to the installations manager. Ask the installations manager who sells flooring installation supplies in your area, and whether or not they rent floor stripping machines. If they do, they'll probably rent the Crain 700. And, yes, they will rent to you, and if they don't Home Depot will probably have these available for rent too.

Quite honestly, if these are either 12 inch square vinyl asbestos tiles or 9 inch square asphalt tiles, stripping those tiles off the whole area you're talking about shouldn't take more than 3 or 4 hours using a rented flooring stripper.

Once you get the tile off the floor, the best product I know of for removing the black glue holding it down is a product called "Oil Flo" or "Oil Flo 141" both made by Titan Labs of Sunnyvale, California.



I've used Oil Flo to remove asphaltic adhesive, and it does a good job, but I've never used Oil Flo 141, which I understand is formulated specifically for removing black asphaltic vinyl tile adhesive (commonly called "cut back" adhesive). You can do almost as good a job by:
1. dissolving the old adhesive in mineral spirits,
2. mixing a detergent like Mr. Clean or Simple Green into the dissolved adhesive,
3. adding water to emulsify the mineral spirits,
4. and then vaccuuming up the liquid mess with a wet/dry vaccuum cleaner.

To my knowledge, both Oil Flo and Oil Flo 141 are simply a detergent (like Mr. Clean or Simple Green) mixed with a hydrocarbon solvent (like mineral spirits).

Finally, about the asbestos issue, and some people might not believe this, but did you know that the airborne asbestos levels in the parks around San Fransisco were measured to be 50 times greater than the OSHA would allow in a workplace without the employer providing protective respiratory equipment to the employees?

It's true. Asbestos is one of the most common rocks in the Earth's crust, and there are places where outcroppings of asbestos bearing rock come to the surface, making regular exposure to airborne asbestos fibers inevitable. Any construction project that disturbs that asbestos bearing rock puts asbestos fibers into the air.

Essentially all of the bedrock in California is asbestos bearing. Much of it is in the form of a rock called "Serpentine". Serpentine rock was used to make the gravel roads in the state parks around San Fransisco, and when cars drove over those gravel roads, the car tires would grind the Serpentine stones against each other creating clowds of airborne asbestos fibers. But, this was before Mesothelioma started showing up in people who worked in the asbestos industry, so people at the time thought nothing of it. California has since passed laws that require that the gravel used to make gravel roads in that state have a Serpentine content of less than 0.05 percent (IIRC).

You should also know that until recently (I believe it was 2000 or so), the USA was importing brakes shoes and disk brake pads made from asbestos from China. Apparantly, a baby squabble erupted between different branches of the government as to who had jurisdiction over imported auto parts. No one wanted it. So, until about the year 2000 the US was importing asbestos brake shoes and brake pads from China while banning the use of asbestos in the same products manufactured in the USA. Go figure.

Did you know that the bedrock around the Great Lakes is all asbestos bearing rock? Rain erodes that rock and washes asbestos into the rivers and streams that feed the Great Lakes. Duluth, Minnesota gets it's drinking water from Lake Superior, and the citizens of Duluth swallow about 3000 asbestos fibers with every glass of tap water they drink.

All of this information was on the OSHA's web site before they took it off. And, if you don't believe me, read the "Asbestos News" section of the Mesothelioma Center's website he

Mesothelioma News Center | Latest in Asbestos & Mesothelioma News

The Mesothelioma Center appears to me to be a web site put up by some ambulance chasing lawyers who want to represent you if you've contracted mesothelioma. The problem is that asbestos-related lung cancers can take up to 50 years to show up after you're first exposed to asbestos, so it's impossible to tell where and when a person actually contracted the disease. And, without being able to prove that, all you have is a hefty lawyer's bill, and the disease.

If you ask me, the reason why people in San Fransisco are living to ripe old ages and we aren't seeing auto mechanics that specialize in brake and clutch replacement all coming down with mesothelioma is because we've been living with asbestos in the environment for the 3 million years we've been evolving from apes, and during the millions of years before that during which the apes evolved from crawling fish, and so we've acquired some resistance to it. But, we're all different and so some of us are more resistant to it than others. And, of course, we're all exposed to different amounts of asbestos depending on where we live and where we work.

But, the bottom line here is that asbestos is abundant in the Earth's crust and erosion happens, and that means we're all exposed to asbestos to some degree every time we go outdoors.

Hope this helps.

On Oct 20, 11:04*pm, nestork wrote:
...snip...
If you ask me, the reason why people in San Fransisco are living to ripe
old ages and we aren't seeing auto mechanics that specialize in brake
and clutch replacement all coming down with mesothelioma is because
we've been living with asbestos in the environment for the 3 million
years we've been evolving from apes, and during the millions of years
before that during which the apes evolved from crawling fish, and so
we've acquired some resistance to it. *But, we're all different and so
some of us are more resistant to it than others. *And, of course, we're
all exposed to different amounts of asbestos depending on where we live
and where we work.

But, the bottom line here is that asbestos is abundant in the Earth's
crust and erosion happens, and that means we're all exposed to asbestos
to some degree every time we go outdoors.

Hope this helps.

--
nestork

It is my understanding that there are two types of asbestos. One type,
which is fairly rare and of noticeable texture, causes mesothelioma
and sometimes this type was used in insulation products. The other
type, which is much more comon and was used everywhere - insulation,
tiles, etc etc does not cause mesothelioma. Further, that this
differentiation was forgotten during the asbestos scare. Then after
being remembered; the asbestos bruhaha quietly went away with 'weak'
explanations like the floor tile safely contains the asbestos so you
can remove it as a DIY project. But still not telling the complete
truth that the asbestos is actually the second type, not to worry,
just be prudent in breathing the dust.

On 10/21/2012 10:26 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
On Oct 20, 11:04 pm, nestork wrote:
...snip...
If you ask me, the reason why people in San Fransisco are living to ripe
old ages and we aren't seeing auto mechanics that specialize in brake
and clutch replacement all coming down with mesothelioma is because
we've been living with asbestos in the environment for the 3 million
years we've been evolving from apes, and during the millions of years
before that during which the apes evolved from crawling fish, and so
we've acquired some resistance to it. But, we're all different and so
some of us are more resistant to it than others. And, of course, we're
all exposed to different amounts of asbestos depending on where we live
and where we work.

But, the bottom line here is that asbestos is abundant in the Earth's
crust and erosion happens, and that means we're all exposed to asbestos
to some degree every time we go outdoors.

Hope this helps.

--
nestork

It is my understanding that there are two types of asbestos. One type,
which is fairly rare and of noticeable texture, causes mesothelioma
and sometimes this type was used in insulation products. The other
type, which is much more comon and was used everywhere - insulation,
tiles, etc etc does not cause mesothelioma. Further, that this
differentiation was forgotten during the asbestos scare. Then after
being remembered; the asbestos bruhaha quietly went away with 'weak'
explanations like the floor tile safely contains the asbestos so you
can remove it as a DIY project. But still not telling the complete
truth that the asbestos is actually the second type, not to worry,
just be prudent in breathing the dust.


There was a story I read about a young woman scientist working for The
EPA who pointed out to her bosses there that only one type of asbestos
was a danger. She was ordered to keep her mouth shut because the people
would literally hunt them down and do unspeakable things to them because
of the billions of dollars the agency forced people to spend in
unnecessary cleanup work. Real or not? I don't know but it sounded just
like all the other junk science government uses to financially destroy
the citizenry. O_o

TDD

No, I hadn't heard that. I know that there are different kinds of mesothelioma but I never read anything about there being different kinds of asbestos. However, it would seem reasonable that there are different kinds of asbestos.

I hadn't heard that either.

My point is that asbestos is another Burmuda Triangle. It's abundant in the Earth's crust, and in many places around the globe, asbestos bearing rock extends right to the surface of the Earth. People living in those areas cannot avoid exposure to asbestos.

But, we simply don't see people living in those areas contracting lung cancer at any higher rates than normal. So, the only reasonable conclusion that can be made is that we don't really understand the effects of asbestos exposure, and why some people are more sensitive to it than others.

But, it's not a new story. We don't understand why some people are so sensitive to peanuts that they can die from eating peanut butter. We don't understand why some people can smoke cigarettes their whole life and get run over by a bus when they're 98 years old, and others can smoke half a pack a week and get lung cancer when they're 40. I think we just need to recognized that when it comes to asbestos, what we know is pitifully small compared to what we have yet to learn about it.

Put asbestos in the same bag as the Burmuda Triangle, UFO's and the Salem witches.

hr(bob) wrote:
(Dick Adams) wrote:

The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. ?The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Go to your local flooring store and look at all the options. You
don't say why you want to get a new floor. You don't say if you have
any potential water problems, how much ceiling clearance there is,
what sort of walls/wall treatments there are. How long are you
planning on staying in the house? If you are looking for cheap and
fast, a layer of epoxy garage floor type paint might do. You could
put a new layer of vinyl tile down if the present floor is smooth.
What activities are there in the basement. Teenagers might call for
something different than if you have amodel railroad setup, etc.

I'm planning on being out of here in 3 to 7 years and I would
rather spend labor while I'm still able to spend it.

I'll have to go back and look, but I recall reading that you were
not suppose to paint over it or apply a floor leveling compound
to it.

Thanks

On Oct 20, 9:20*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
(Dick Adams) wrote:
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. ?The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.
Go to your local flooring store and look at all the options. *You
don't say why you want to get a new floor. *You don't say if you have
any potential water problems, how much ceiling clearance there is,
what sort of walls/wall treatments there are. *How long are you
planning on staying in the house? *If you are looking for cheap and
fast, a layer of epoxy garage floor type paint might do. *You could
put a new layer of vinyl tile down if the present floor is smooth.
What activities are there in the basement. *Teenagers might call for
something different than if you have amodel railroad setup, etc.

I'm planning on being out of here in 3 to 7 years and I would
rather spend labor while I'm still able to spend it.

I'll have to go back and look, but I recall reading that you were
not suppose to paint over it or apply a floor leveling compound
to it.

Thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the current floor is adhering to the concrete under it, and
moisture is not a problem, there should not be a problem. I have
tiles on my basement floor, and have almost all of it covered with an
industrial grade of short-nubbed carpeting, Only my workshop area is
uncovered tile. I would epoxy paint it if I had to do something.

Dick be aware of; that some communities have very strict laws about
any material that has asbestos in it, before you start removal job
fines can be very high get some information how to get read of tiles first.

"Dick Adams" wrote in message ...
The tile flooring in my basement is 40 years old and has
asbestos in it. According to State publication, vinyl
tile is considered non-friable asbestos and, if I follow
some common sense procedures, it can be a DIY project.

One problem is I'm looking at 3 rooms, 2 hallways, and
a 720 sq.ft back of the basement area with oil tank, oil
furnace, washer, dryer, large sink, and massive storage.
It's possible to do the rooms and hallways individually,
but not 720 sq.ft. The only option I see is to cover
the existing tiles - but with what?

Any and all constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

Dick

Grumpy wrote:
Dick be aware of; that some communities have very strict laws about
any material that has asbestos in it, before you start removal job
fines can be very high get some information how to get read of tiles
first.

On the other hand, if you call attention to yourself - by inquiring or
requesting a permit - you will come under scrutiny by your betters.

No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:02:51 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Grumpy wrote:
Dick be aware of; that some communities have very strict laws about
any material that has asbestos in it, before you start removal job
fines can be very high get some information how to get read of tiles
first.

On the other hand, if you call attention to yourself - by inquiring or
requesting a permit - you will come under scrutiny by your betters.

No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

Just deliver them to your local dump along with other household
garbage - well bagged.

wrote in message
...


No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

Just deliver them to your local dump along with other household
garbage - well bagged.

That is exactly what I would do. It is an accepted method and legal.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:36:30 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .


No, best to dig up the tiles, put them in a trash bag, and leave them in a
schoolyard during the dark of the moon. Tell no one.

Just deliver them to your local dump along with other household
garbage - well bagged.

That is exactly what I would do. It is an accepted method and legal.

It came from the ground. Put it back where it came from.