Just replaced my less than 3 YO GE HE front loader with a new top
loader, also GE. The old front loader was a disaster. We virtually
washed everything twice, the 2nd time with no detergent in order to get
the cloths rinsed ... both times selecting the extra rinse. Still the
clothes didn't come clean at times and sometimes, there was still soap
left in them. I was a little concerned about getting another GE, but
the salesman did his job and convinced us to buy the GE. I also like
that GE is made in KY ... used to be made across the street from my
boyhood home in Cicero, IL. Anyway, a few years ago you could easily
get non HE detergent. Now, it is almost all marked HE. The recommended
amounts are now lower than the old non HE stuff was. Now, if you put
this small amount of detergent in a washer that uses, lets say 6 times
the amount of water (that's a guess), then the detergent will be 6 times
or more diluted. So, do you use 6 times as much? At 6 times the cost?
Ah that's what makes the high efficiency once cheaper to run (sorry,
for the sarcasm). Everywhere you look (google), they say to just use
the HE stuff in the non HE machines. However, nobody addresses the
dilution question. Any ideas here? I think I will call GE and ask them
also.

On Sunday, August 5, 2012 11:36:48 AM UTC-7, Art Todesco wrote:
Just replaced my less than 3 YO GE HE front loader with a new top

loader, also GE. The old front loader was a disaster. We virtually

washed everything twice, the 2nd time with no detergent in order to get

the cloths rinsed ... both times selecting the extra rinse. Still the

clothes didn't come clean at times and sometimes, there was still soap

left in them. I was a little concerned about getting another GE, but

the salesman did his job and convinced us to buy the GE. I also like

that GE is made in KY ... used to be made across the street from my

boyhood home in Cicero, IL. Anyway, a few years ago you could easily

get non HE detergent. Now, it is almost all marked HE. The recommended

amounts are now lower than the old non HE stuff was. Now, if you put

this small amount of detergent in a washer that uses, lets say 6 times

the amount of water (that's a guess), then the detergent will be 6 times

or more diluted. So, do you use 6 times as much? At 6 times the cost?

Ah that's what makes the high efficiency once cheaper to run (sorry,

for the sarcasm). Everywhere you look (google), they say to just use

the HE stuff in the non HE machines. However, nobody addresses the

dilution question. Any ideas here? I think I will call GE and ask them

also.

What you should have done is gone to your nearest Laundromat, made note of the make and model of the machines that they use and bought the same one. You would be amazed as to how little price difference there is with what the department stores sell.

Art Todesco wrote in
:

Just replaced my less than 3 YO GE HE front loader with a new top
loader, also GE. The old front loader was a disaster. We virtually
washed everything twice, the 2nd time with no detergent in order to
get the cloths rinsed ... both times selecting the extra rinse. Still
the clothes didn't come clean at times and sometimes, there was still
soap left in them. I was a little concerned about getting another
GE, but the salesman did his job and convinced us to buy the GE. I
also like that GE is made in KY ... used to be made across the street
from my boyhood home in Cicero, IL. Anyway, a few years ago you
could easily get non HE detergent. Now, it is almost all marked HE.
The recommended amounts are now lower than the old non HE stuff was.
Now, if you put this small amount of detergent in a washer that uses,
lets say 6 times the amount of water (that's a guess), then the
detergent will be 6 times or more diluted. So, do you use 6 times as
much? At 6 times the cost?
Ah that's what makes the high efficiency once cheaper to run
(sorry,
for the sarcasm). Everywhere you look (google), they say to just use
the HE stuff in the non HE machines. However, nobody addresses the
dilution question. Any ideas here? I think I will call GE and ask
them also.

You must be unlucky. We bought a Sears Kenmore 417.43042300 frontloader
in January 2004, and are happily using it on the warm/cold ecosetting
with 1 extra rinse, using All 2X ultra detergent for almost all laundry.
Works just fine, efficient and rather rapid. No problems in those 8 1/2
years ... (Knocking wood).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Art Todesco wrote:

Now, if you put
this small amount of detergent in a washer that uses, lets say 6 times
the amount of water (that's a guess), then the detergent will be 6 times
or more diluted. So, do you use 6 times as much? At 6 times the cost?


First off - HE is a marketing term for what used to be sold as low sudsing
detergent, which used to be the standard formula. IIRC Tide was one of the first
high sudsing detergents to come out, and a lot of people didn't like the
overflowing suds it created.The marketing types needed to draw a distinction
between the two - so you used to get a choice: high suds or low suds.

The suds have nothing to do with how good a detergent is, but calling it low
anything wouldn't sell nearly as well, so now we get "High Efficiency".

The new washers use far less water - and by law the new top loaders aren't
allowed to use any more water than front loaders, so best not be putting 6 times
the amount of detergent in them.

Robert Neville wrote:
The new washers use far less water - and by law the new top loaders
aren't allowed to use any more water than front loaders,

Do tell me how they pull that off.

On 8/5/2012 2:36 PM, Art Todesco wrote:
Just replaced my less than 3 YO GE HE front loader with a new top
loader, also GE. The old front loader was a disaster. We virtually
washed everything twice, the 2nd time with no detergent in order to get
the cloths rinsed ... both times selecting the extra rinse. Still the
clothes didn't come clean at times and sometimes, there was still soap
left in them. I was a little concerned about getting another GE, but
the salesman did his job and convinced us to buy the GE. I also like
that GE is made in KY ... used to be made across the street from my
boyhood home in Cicero, IL. Anyway, a few years ago you could easily
get non HE detergent. Now, it is almost all marked HE. The recommended
amounts are now lower than the old non HE stuff was. Now, if you put
this small amount of detergent in a washer that uses, lets say 6 times
the amount of water (that's a guess), then the detergent will be 6 times
or more diluted. So, do you use 6 times as much? At 6 times the cost?
Ah that's what makes the high efficiency once cheaper to run (sorry,
for the sarcasm). Everywhere you look (google), they say to just use
the HE stuff in the non HE machines. However, nobody addresses the
dilution question. Any ideas here? I think I will call GE and ask them
also.


Surprised that you were disappointed with your GE front loader.

We've had a GE front load 4 cu ft washer for over 2 years now and have
been very happy with it's performance.

Wash times are long with it, typically one hour at our preferred
settings, otherwise it's been everything it promised to be and my wife
and I are very glad we purchased it. We average one load per day in our
household...

On 8/5/2012 10:47 PM, Robert Neville wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:

Now, if you put
this small amount of detergent in a washer that uses, lets say 6 times
the amount of water (that's a guess), then the detergent will be 6 times
or more diluted. So, do you use 6 times as much? At 6 times the cost?


First off - HE is a marketing term for what used to be sold as low sudsing
detergent, which used to be the standard formula. IIRC Tide was one of the first
high sudsing detergents to come out, and a lot of people didn't like the
overflowing suds it created.The marketing types needed to draw a distinction
between the two - so you used to get a choice: high suds or low suds.

The suds have nothing to do with how good a detergent is, but calling it low
anything wouldn't sell nearly as well, so now we get "High Efficiency".

The new washers use far less water - and by law the new top loaders aren't
allowed to use any more water than front loaders, so best not be putting 6 times
the amount of detergent in them.

Actually, not exactly true. The new top load washers that don't have an
agitator are really just front loaders on its side. So yes on that
account. However, the ones with agitators use lots of water. Maybe not
like you mother's machine, but they to fill the tub and the clothes to
slosh around. In my case, if I let the machine weigh and fill, the tub
will not fill as much as if I manually select a setting, like small
load, medium, large, super, etc. In this case, it will fill to a
certain level regardless of what's in the tub. My understanding is
that, in the future (don't know when), they will only be the ones
without agitators and very low water.

"Bob F" wrote:

Robert Neville wrote:
The new washers use far less water - and by law the new top loaders
aren't allowed to use any more water than front loaders,

Do tell me how they pull that off.

Not very well, according to all accounts. But the rules don't specify water use
by machine type. They specify water use period.

http://www.rosieonthehouse.com/faq_detail.aspx?id=414

"Art Todesco" wrote in message
...
Just replaced my less than 3 YO GE HE front loader with a new top loader,
also GE. The old front loader was a disaster. We virtually washed
everything twice, the 2nd time with no detergent in order to get the
cloths rinsed ... both times selecting the extra rinse. Still the clothes
didn't come clean at times and sometimes, there was still soap left in
them. I was a little concerned about getting another GE, but the
salesman did his job and convinced us to buy the GE. I also like that GE
is made in KY ... used to be made across the street from my boyhood home
in Cicero, IL. Anyway, a few years ago you could easily get non HE
detergent. Now, it is almost all marked HE. The recommended amounts are
now lower than the old non HE stuff was. Now, if you put this small
amount of detergent in a washer that uses, lets say 6 times the amount of
water (that's a guess), then the detergent will be 6 times or more
diluted. So, do you use 6 times as much? At 6 times the cost? Ah that's
what makes the high efficiency once cheaper to run (sorry, for the
sarcasm). Everywhere you look (google), they say to just use the HE stuff
in the non HE machines. However, nobody addresses the dilution question.
Any ideas here? I think I will call GE and ask them also.

I have a Miele machine. Dunno if they are available in the US. Made in
Germany.
It has run faultlessly for twenty years.
The automatic controls can be overridden if you don't like what it's doing.

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 07:15:46 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:

"Bob F" wrote:

Robert Neville wrote:
The new washers use far less water - and by law the new top loaders
aren't allowed to use any more water than front loaders,

Do tell me how they pull that off.

Not very well, according to all accounts. But the rules don't specify water use
by machine type. They specify water use period.

http://www.rosieonthehouse.com/faq_detail.aspx?id=414


that link provided no substantiation that there is any law that
requires a limited amount of water use. It just talks about what the
standards are for being 'energy certified'. I tried to find something
on google about a LAW requiring a limited usage of water and couldn't
find anything. And the link you provided said 80% of the energy was
for heating the water so if someone simply washed in cold water they
could use more water and still be more energy efficient then someone
with a HE machine. If there is an actual law to cite I'd like to see
it.

On 05 Aug 2012 21:31:49 GMT, Han wrote:

Art Todesco wrote in
:

Just replaced my less than 3 YO GE HE front loader with a new top
loader, also GE. The old front loader was a disaster. We virtually
washed everything twice, the 2nd time with no detergent in order to
get the cloths rinsed ... both times selecting the extra rinse. Still
the clothes didn't come clean at times and sometimes, there was still
soap left in them. I was a little concerned about getting another
GE, but the salesman did his job and convinced us to buy the GE. I
also like that GE is made in KY ... used to be made across the street
from my boyhood home in Cicero, IL. Anyway, a few years ago you
could easily get non HE detergent. Now, it is almost all marked HE.
The recommended amounts are now lower than the old non HE stuff was.
Now, if you put this small amount of detergent in a washer that uses,
lets say 6 times the amount of water (that's a guess), then the
detergent will be 6 times or more diluted. So, do you use 6 times as
much? At 6 times the cost?
Ah that's what makes the high efficiency once cheaper to run
(sorry,
for the sarcasm). Everywhere you look (google), they say to just use
the HE stuff in the non HE machines. However, nobody addresses the
dilution question. Any ideas here? I think I will call GE and ask
them also.

You must be unlucky. We bought a Sears Kenmore 417.43042300 frontloader
in January 2004, and are happily using it on the warm/cold ecosetting
with 1 extra rinse, using All 2X ultra detergent for almost all laundry.
Works just fine, efficient and rather rapid. No problems in those 8 1/2
years ... (Knocking wood).

Bought samsung 3 years ago - cold-cold, normal rinse, and never an
issue. Using Tide Compact.