I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

On Jul 8, 11:14*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. *I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. *Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

No such thing exists...

You have to install a drain valve in close proximity to the
main shut off but between the main and the fixtures and
then go around and open the valves on each fixture supplied
by the plumbing to get all of the water out of the lines...

Don't forget to pour Propylene glycol in the drain traps as
those can freeze and cause leaks too...

On Jul 8, 11:29*am, Evan wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:14*am, "Steve B" wrote:

I own a cabin. *I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. *Is there such a
thing made?

Steve



Inquiring minds want to know why is this is necessary?
What it takes to completely drain any water system is
going to depend on what all there is to drain and how
it's piped. At the very least, you need to not only open
a valve at the lowest point, but also faucets or other
ways for air to enter at the high points.


No such thing exists...

At least no ready made, practicl thing, that's for sure.




You have to install a drain valve in close proximity to the
main shut off but between the main and the fixtures and
then go around and open the valves on each fixture supplied
by the plumbing to get all of the water out of the lines...

Don't forget to pour Propylene glycol in the drain traps as
those can freeze and cause leaks too...

On Jul 8, 11:14*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. *I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. *Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

you could install a compressor to blow out the lines and some solenoid
valves.

replace all water lines with PEX its freeze resistant

On 7/8/12 11:14 AM, Steve B wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve



There is such a thing that is used in underground lawn sprinkler
systems. I have them installed on mine in both the constant pressure
runs and the timer controlled runs. On winter shutdown, you will need
to open highest faucets etc to allow air into lines, and releave
pressure in lines.

http://www.rainbird.com/homeowner/pr...DrainValve.htm

"Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

Look up draining a trailer. Not sure how fellow did mine. Put glycol in
system and hot water tank after pushing or sucking out water.

Greg

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 08:29:23 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On Jul 8, 11:14Â*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. Â*I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Â*Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

No such thing exists...

You have to install a drain valve in close proximity to the
main shut off but between the main and the fixtures and
then go around and open the valves on each fixture supplied
by the plumbing to get all of the water out of the lines...

Don't forget to pour Propylene glycol in the drain traps as
those can freeze and cause leaks too...
There IS such a thing as an automatic drain valve. Commonly used in
sprinkler systems.
Flomatic also makes one for domestic water systems. The Flomatic model
70 will likely do your job and they are reasonably priced.

Then there are the Ogontz antifreeze valves that are temperature
actuated and drain when the temperature approaches freezing.

The sprinkler system valves are quite commonly used in "seasonal"
trailers andcabins.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 12:47:30 -0400, Reed wrote:

There is such a thing that is used in underground lawn sprinkler
systems. I have them installed on mine in both the constant pressure
runs and the timer controlled runs. On winter shutdown, you will need
to open highest faucets etc to allow air into lines, and releave
pressure in lines.

http://www.rainbird.com/homeowner/pr...DrainValve.htm

I read of these in irrigation systems. Called a "positive drain
valve". I could not find it under that name (couple of tries). Your
link appears to be the same / similar, named differently. In the
irrigation, the valve is on a long end run and drains into a sand dry
well. When the sprinklers turn off the pipes drain as the valve opens.

My pool solar has a drain valve at the top. When water pressure is
off the solar unit drains completely. No need for winterization.

Thanks for that link.

On Jul 8, 1:09*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 08:29:23 -0700 (PDT), Evan





wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:14*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. *I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. *Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

No such thing exists...

You have to install a drain valve in close proximity to the
main shut off but between the main and the fixtures and
then go around and open the valves on each fixture supplied
by the plumbing to get all of the water out of the lines...

Don't forget to pour Propylene glycol in the drain traps as
those can freeze and cause leaks too...

*There IS such a thing as an automatic drain valve. Commonly used in
sprinkler systems.
Flomatic also makes one for domestic water systems. The Flomatic model
70 will likely do your job and they are reasonably priced.


You would have to use many of these to cover the lowest
point in the system and all the high points in the various
lines. I don't see it as being practical. Installing them in
existing sinks, baths etc would not only be a pain, but
would introduce more points for leaks in places that
you don't want to leak. One of those spring loaded
valves gets some debris in it, fails to shut fully, and then what?

The real question here is what's the need? Why can't the
cabin be drained by just shutting a valve, opening a drain
or two and turning on the faucets?





Then there are the Ogontz antifreeze valves that are temperature
actuated and drain when the temperature approaches freezing.

The sprinkler system valves are quite commonly used in "seasonal"
trailers andcabins.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I hope they aren't being used for potable water systems,
unless they are rated for them.

"gregz" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that
when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there
such a
thing made?

Steve

Look up draining a trailer. Not sure how fellow did mine. Put glycol in
system and hot water tank after pushing or sucking out water.

Greg

Glycol antifreezes are toxic. Google it. I use alcohol based RV
antifreezes. The hot water tank needs no antifreeze if you open the valves
and let it drain completely.

Steve

On 7/8/2012 8:29 AM, Evan wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:14 am, "Steve wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

No such thing exists...

You have to install a drain valve in close proximity to the
main shut off but between the main and the fixtures and
then go around and open the valves on each fixture supplied
by the plumbing to get all of the water out of the lines...

Don't forget to pour Propylene glycol in the drain traps as
those can freeze and cause leaks too...
Of course it exists! Used all the time in agriculture irrigation systems
to drain the water automatically so the pipes can be easily moved.

Find an irrigation supply store and ask. Water pressure will keep it closed.

Paul

On 7/8/2012 10:14 AM, Steve B wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve



there is such a thing for irrigation systems, but there's NO WAY there's
a common low point in a house system that would allow EVERY pipe to
drain. You have to blow them and preferably follow the blow with some
pink, and blow again.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 7/8/12 10:14 AM, Steve B wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve


Yes. The ones for center pivot irrigation systems would work but
are 1". I suppose there are some made for hand move sprinkler lines
also. Then there are the ones others mentioned for the lawn sprinklers.
I'd be tempted to mount a cheap air compressor near the water
supply. Drain the water as much as possible, then use air to push the
remaining water out of the supply lines.

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 12:48:44 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


"gregz" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that
when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there
such a
thing made?

Steve

Look up draining a trailer. Not sure how fellow did mine. Put glycol in
system and hot water tank after pushing or sucking out water.

Greg

Glycol antifreezes are toxic.

Propylene glycol is non-toxic. It's often used for plumbing in potable water
systems and is even a food additive.

Google it. I use alcohol based RV
antifreezes.

I bet it's propylene glycol. Alchohol would evaporate too readily.

The hot water tank needs no antifreeze if you open the valves
and let it drain completely.

On 7/8/2012 2:48 PM, Steve B wrote:
....

Glycol antifreezes are toxic. Google it. I use alcohol based RV
antifreezes. The hot water tank needs no antifreeze if you open the valves
and let it drain completely.
....

Not all, no...ethylene glycol is the automotive use and is; propylene
glycol is a very widely used diol(+) in many places including as a
potable-water anti-freeze. Almost certainly that is what your RV
antifreeze is.

(+) diol - a double alcohol (a hydroxyl group attached to C)

A 'glycol' is any of a class of belonging to the alcohol family

So you're right it's an alcohol; but it's also a glycol, just not
ethylene glycol and it isn't seriously toxic, fortunately.

If ingested the metabolism process does produce propionaldehyde, which
is potentially hazardous at very high concentrations but it would be
nearly impossible to reach toxic levels by consuming anything but it
directly and thus is classified by US FDA as "generally recognized as
safe" for use as a direct food additive.

--

Steve B wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so
that when I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out.
Is there such a thing made?


You could use a "three way" ball valve as the shutoff, so when you shut off the
water, the house pipeing opens to a drain. Assuming that the pipeing was
designed to naturally flow towards that valve from all the fixtures, that might
do it. A pipe from the highest point of each major run to an outside sprinkler
drain valve would help speed the flow of water out by admitting air when the
pressure drops. Faster flow would help get the most water out of the pipes.

"Steve B" wrote:
"gregz" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that
when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there
such a
thing made?

Steve

Look up draining a trailer. Not sure how fellow did mine. Put glycol in
system and hot water tank after pushing or sucking out water.

Greg

Glycol antifreezes are toxic. Google it. I use alcohol based RV
antifreezes. The hot water tank needs no antifreeze if you open the valves
and let it drain completely.

Steve

I was given rv propylene glycol antifreeze, RV.
I'm sure the guy knows how to fix it up for the winter. He probably has
done hundreds of trailers. I never looked it up. I would want a pump or
shop vac the system. The tubing goes up, down, around, and inconceivable
that it would not get stuck in parts of the tubing. Purging the system with
antifreeze, should get some in all tanks.

Greg

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 7/8/2012 2:48 PM, Steve B wrote:
...

Glycol antifreezes are toxic. Google it. I use alcohol based RV
antifreezes. The hot water tank needs no antifreeze if you open the
valves
and let it drain completely.
...

Not all, no...ethylene glycol is the automotive use and is; propylene
glycol is a very widely used diol(+) in many places including as a
potable-water anti-freeze. Almost certainly that is what your RV
antifreeze is.

(+) diol - a double alcohol (a hydroxyl group attached to C)

A 'glycol' is any of a class of belonging to the alcohol family

So you're right it's an alcohol; but it's also a glycol, just not ethylene
glycol and it isn't seriously toxic, fortunately.

If ingested the metabolism process does produce propionaldehyde, which is
potentially hazardous at very high concentrations but it would be nearly
impossible to reach toxic levels by consuming anything but it directly and
thus is classified by US FDA as "generally recognized as safe" for use as
a direct food additive.

--

Now I am confused. You say one thing, the internet says another. Yes, ig
does say that propylene glycol is fairly safe, but that ethylene glycol is
definitely toxic. And then, I read the label on my RV antifreeze, and it is
composed of alcohol mostly.

I don't know who to believe, or what I read.

I'll just keep with what I think is safe.

Steve

On 7/8/2012 8:15 PM, Steve B wrote:
....

Now I am confused. You say one thing, the internet says another. ...

"The internet" is about as nebulous as you can get--what specific piece
on the internet did you find that you think disagrees with what I said?
(I can assure you if it does, its wrong. )

does say that propylene glycol is fairly safe, but that ethylene glycol is
definitely toxic.

That's exactly what I said. What's the problem?

The definition of a glycol is any a molecule that contains two hydroxyl
groups.

An alcohol is any organic compound in which a hydroxyl functional group
(OH) is bound to a carbon atom. Acyclic alcohols such as ethanol (the
drinking kind) and methanol ("wood or rubbing" alcohol which is also
toxic) have only a single hydroxyl group. They're alcohols, too, but
they're not glycols because don't have the second hydroxyl group.

So, the glycol is a chemical term that describes a particular class of
alcohols, of which ethylene and propylene are commonly used for
antifreeze. They are different from each other despite both being
glycols just as ethanol and methanol in one being quite toxic, the other
not.

It is that 'glycol' is a general descriptive term, not specific to only
one compound.

And then, I read the label on my RV antifreeze, and it is
composed of alcohol mostly.

Yes, propylene glycol is an alcohol--see above. So is ethylene glycol.
_Any_ glycol is an alcohol by definition; just a specific type of an
alcohol.

I don't know who to believe, or what I read.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/dictionariesglossaries/g/defalcohol.htm
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryglossary/g/Glycol-Definition.htm

A good, basic site that is accurate...the above links are the
definitions; there are links there to specifics.

--

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 12:48:44 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


"gregz" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that
when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there
such a
thing made?

Steve

Look up draining a trailer. Not sure how fellow did mine. Put glycol in
system and hot water tank after pushing or sucking out water.

Greg

Glycol antifreezes are toxic. Google it. I use alcohol based RV
antifreezes. The hot water tank needs no antifreeze if you open the valves
and let it drain completely.

Steve

Propylene glycol is non toxic- commonly sold as "plumbing antifreeze"

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 7/8/2012 8:15 PM, Steve B wrote:
...

Now I am confused. You say one thing, the internet says another. ...

"The internet" is about as nebulous as you can get--what specific piece on
the internet did you find that you think disagrees with what I said? (I
can assure you if it does, its wrong. )

does say that propylene glycol is fairly safe, but that ethylene glycol
is
definitely toxic.

That's exactly what I said. What's the problem?

The definition of a glycol is any a molecule that contains two hydroxyl
groups.

An alcohol is any organic compound in which a hydroxyl functional group
(OH) is bound to a carbon atom. Acyclic alcohols such as ethanol (the
drinking kind) and methanol ("wood or rubbing" alcohol which is also
toxic) have only a single hydroxyl group. They're alcohols, too, but
they're not glycols because don't have the second hydroxyl group.

So, the glycol is a chemical term that describes a particular class of
alcohols, of which ethylene and propylene are commonly used for
antifreeze. They are different from each other despite both being glycols
just as ethanol and methanol in one being quite toxic, the other not.

It is that 'glycol' is a general descriptive term, not specific to only
one compound.

And then, I read the label on my RV antifreeze, and it is
composed of alcohol mostly.

Yes, propylene glycol is an alcohol--see above. So is ethylene glycol.
_Any_ glycol is an alcohol by definition; just a specific type of an
alcohol.

I don't know who to believe, or what I read.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/dictionariesglossaries/g/defalcohol.htm
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryglossary/g/Glycol-Definition.htm

A good, basic site that is accurate...the above links are the definitions;
there are links there to specifics.

That's all very nice. Do you have anything to add about the valves? You
know, the topic of the question.

Steve

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:26:03 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 7/8/2012 10:14 AM, Steve B wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve



there is such a thing for irrigation systems, but there's NO WAY there's
a common low point in a house system that would allow EVERY pipe to
drain. You have to blow them and preferably follow the blow with some
pink, and blow again.

A seasonal cabin, plumbed by a competent plumber WILL have a low point
that drains the entire cottage water system from one point. It is
something that needs to be done at least once a year - oftener if the
cottage is used periodically during the winter months for skiing,
snowmobiling etc.
Most "trailer" homes are also plumbed with this in mind..

On 7/8/2012 9:46 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 7/8/2012 8:15 PM, Steve B wrote:
...

Now I am confused. You say one thing, the internet says another. ...

....

That's all very nice. Do you have anything to add about the valves? You
know, the topic of the question.

Yeah, they'll be fine w/ the alcohol...

--

On 7/8/2012 10:49 PM, dpb wrote:
....

Yeah, they'll be fine w/ the alcohol...
....

Excuse me, that would be "glycol"

Sorry for thinking that somebody on usenet might actually like to learn
some basic chemistry and remove the underpinnings of a misconception.
What _was_ I thinking????

--

On Jul 8, 1:09*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 08:29:23 -0700 (PDT), Evan









wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:14*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I own a cabin. *I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. *Is there such a
thing made?

Steve

No such thing exists...

You have to install a drain valve in close proximity to the
main shut off but between the main and the fixtures and
then go around and open the valves on each fixture supplied
by the plumbing to get all of the water out of the lines...

Don't forget to pour Propylene glycol in the drain traps as
those can freeze and cause leaks too...

*There IS such a thing as an automatic drain valve. Commonly used in
sprinkler systems.
Flomatic also makes one for domestic water systems. The Flomatic model
70 will likely do your job and they are reasonably priced.

Then there are the Ogontz antifreeze valves that are temperature
actuated and drain when the temperature approaches freezing.

The sprinkler system valves are quite commonly used in "seasonal"
trailers andcabins.

Sprinkler System valves are not approved for potable water
systems... Also there is nothing that can "automatically"
drain a plumbing system with one device or valve, without
also installing "automatic" valves which open at the high
points on each branch of the piping to admit air and allow
the pipes to drain...

wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:26:03 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 7/8/2012 10:14 AM, Steve B wrote:
I own a cabin. I want to install some sort of automatic valve so that when
I shut the water off, all the water in the lines drain out. Is there such a
thing made?

Steve



there is such a thing for irrigation systems, but there's NO WAY there's
a common low point in a house system that would allow EVERY pipe to
drain. You have to blow them and preferably follow the blow with some
pink, and blow again.

A seasonal cabin, plumbed by a competent plumber WILL have a low point
that drains the entire cottage water system from one point. It is
something that needs to be done at least once a year - oftener if the
cottage is used periodically during the winter months for skiing,
snowmobiling etc.
Most "trailer" homes are also plumbed with this in mind..

I got a one way input valve on my trailer, but wondering if it has an air
bladder.

I only had his for half year, still learning. An 88 , has plastic piping of
some sort. No cold water tank.

Greg