On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:40:44 -0700, nospam wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take off and
on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off
and on ... all day ... every day.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else, than to
protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens (when the boy
scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663221.jpg

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)
b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)
c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)
d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

On 2012-07-06 13:27:34 -0700, "Arklin K." said:


What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

NO!

--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take off and
on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off
and on ... all day ... every day.

it's not a pain. it snaps on and off very easily.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

no wonder you have trashed lenses.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else, than to
protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens (when the boy
scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

you need a lot more than a filter can offer.

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663221.jpg

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)
b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)
c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)
d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

no, what you need is to learn how not to trash your equipment.

Arklin K. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:40:44 -0700, nospam wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take off and
on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off
and on ... all day ... every day.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

Your fault.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else, than to
protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens (when the boy
scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

Ah, yes, you want the filter *and* the front elements to break
under the impact. Sure thing, go ahead. We need someone to
funnel money into the industry.

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)

Yes, if you force them all the time, some day they will fall off.
Usually people can get 5 or 10 years out of them.

b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)

I'm sure there was a passage in the instructions not to leave
the battery in for days.

c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap lens prices you can buy a lot.

d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap camera prices you can buy quite a few.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

It's called a sledge hammer. They're much cheaper. They take
a *lot* of mishandling. You can drop them from over your head.
You can smash them into rocks and concrete walls. They can be
taken most everywhere. They should do almost everything you need.
They can even take a bullet.

You can even make images with them, just use a chisel and a stone
plate. But don't whack it to hard, or the image quality suffers.


Anyway, a normal ruggedized camera won't work for you. Not
even something like (random url)
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1621

An additional deep underwater housing won't work for you.

You need to look at stuff like
http://www.visntec.com/Vision-Technologies-Products/p/3
http://www.dvsmil.com/custom.html

Military cameras such as
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/military.html
won't handle the abuse you routinely subject your cameras to.

-Wolfgang

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:

Arklin K. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:40:44 -0700, nospam wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take
off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and
on and off and on ... all day ... every day.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

Your fault.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else,
than to protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens
(when the boy scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

Ah, yes, you want the filter and the front elements to break
under the impact. Sure thing, go ahead. We need someone to
funnel money into the industry.

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)

Yes, if you force them all the time, some day they will fall off.
Usually people can get 5 or 10 years out of them.

b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)

I'm sure there was a passage in the instructions not to leave
the battery in for days.

c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap lens prices you can buy a lot.

d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap camera prices you can buy quite a few.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

It's called a sledge hammer. They're much cheaper. They take
a lot of mishandling. You can drop them from over your head.
You can smash them into rocks and concrete walls. They can be
taken most everywhere. They should do almost everything you need.
They can even take a bullet.

You can even make images with them, just use a chisel and a stone
plate. But don't whack it to hard, or the image quality suffers.


Anyway, a normal ruggedized camera won't work for you. Not
even something like (random url)
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1621

An additional deep underwater housing won't work for you.

You need to look at stuff like
http://www.visntec.com/Vision-Technologies-Products/p/3
http://www.dvsmil.com/custom.html

Military cameras such as
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/military.html
won't handle the abuse you routinely subject your cameras to.

-Wolfgang

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.

--
Neil

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.

So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 20:29:01 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.

So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

What you've really demonstrated in this thread is that you are an
exceedingly slow learner. If you've lost as many lenses to damage
resulting from the plastic flange snapping off as you say, a more
astute camera owner would have switched to metal-flanged lenses some
time ago.

I own four lenses for my Nikon D60 (comparable to your Nikon, but an
earlier version). The two kit lenses have plastic flanges (one has
snapped off) and my third Nikon lens (a prime lens) and my Tamron
18/270mm have metal flanges. They are available.

I have trouble understanding why you think the "camera" is a
"throwaway" when the problems are with the lenses you are buying. The
camera body will work with lenses with metal flanges.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?


In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

What exactly are you doing to damage all these battery doors? If you
use a little care when opening them they will certainly last
indefinitely, so there is something else going on with those
experiencing these problems. My very first Nikon camera, a 3MP CP770 is
still working in the hands of my "Step-daughter from Hell".


So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

That might be a rule for you and your level of rough usage.

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

Why are you astounded? They are the least expensive and least rugged
lenses Nikon markets. Do not expect the same level of performance and
construction out of a $350-$500 Nikon lens as you would get from one of
their $860-$2200 lenses.


One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.


....and now there are two Rolex watches on the casualty list.

Please list the physical injuries you have sustained as you wreaked
mayhem upon the machinery around you.



So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

How did motorized lenses get into this?


Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

You are viewing the World of cameras through a very distorted lens.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 17:24:57 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

What you've really demonstrated in this thread is that you are an
exceedingly slow learner.

This is undeniably true. I hadn't realized the extent of my losses until
I dug into my broken-camera box, which has grown in size over the years.

a more astute camera owner would have switched to
metal-flanged lenses some time ago.

Again, I agree. It's the plastic bayonet mostly that is the problem with
the Nikon D-series SLR cameras I've been buying from Costco (although the
poorly designed battery charger was the real problem with the Nikon
Coolpix 5000).


I own four lenses for my Nikon D60 (comparable to your Nikon, but an
earlier version). The two kit lenses have plastic flanges (one has
snapped off)

As I noted earlier, I have a Nikon D60 and a Nikon D50 in my camera box
so I fully agree, the plastic Nikon (Nikkor?) lenses that came with the
Costco kit are fragile. Here's a picture of both the broken D50 and D60
made with my D5000 earlier this week:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/8663059.jpg

the problems are with the lenses you are buying.

I now realize that these fragile plastic lenses are, for me, the problem.

The camera body will work with lenses with metal flanges.

THAT's what I need! All I need, I think, is lenses that work with my
Nikon D50, D60, and D5000 that have metal bayonets!

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity
to damage your cameras?

My Myers-Briggs personality is big on "P", as in ESTP. That means, in
part, that I prefer others to live and breath the way they naturally
desire. I don't wish to control them. In contrast, many people are
strongly "J" (as in INFJ), which means, in part, they prefer to control
other people's actions around them.

Kids are kids. They play. They run. They jump. They fall. They get hurt.
They cry. They get boo boos. It's part of being a kid. The whole point of
me being in the boy scout program is so that I can help the kids be kids.

One rule of childhood is that the whole point of the long childhood of
humans is to give the kids chances to make mistakes without getting
killed or maimed. Essentially, that is the whole point of 'play'.

Animals play also - but they don't play with cameras. Kids could, should,
and do 'play' with my cameras. All my kids have their own SLRs, for
example, and I give SLRs as gifts to my sister's kids.

Kids need to play with cameras so that they learn.

I 'try' to keep the cameras from being broken (hence the rule that a
strap must always be worn when snapping pictures in a canoe, for example).

But, fundamentally, I let the kids use my SLR so that they will learn how
to take better pictures.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

What exactly are you doing to damage all these battery doors? If you use
a little care when opening them they will certainly last indefinitely,
so there is something else going on with those experiencing these
problems.

While dpreview has discussed the Nikon engineering flaw in detail:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read....essage=2267289

The door itself isn't generally the problem. The problem is the spring
loaded pressure forces itself against a teeny tiny tab on the camera body
- which is destined to break.
http://files.myopera.com/mcduret/blog/IMGP0065b.JPG

This is a beautiful paper-clip fix to Nikon's engineering flaw:
http://www.uthunter.com/images/Nikonfix.jpg

Here's another user's fix for Nikon's poor engineering:
http://files.myopera.com/mcduret/blog/IMGP0070b.JPG

Googling for "coolpix battery door fix", I find, for example:

QUOTE: All the Nikon Coolpix camera bodies break at the battery latch
door. Nikon REFUSES to honor their own promise of "excellence" (ha!) so
you'll have to fix the camera body yourself.
URL: http://www.epinions.com/review/pr-Di..._Coolpix_3100/
content_405607583364?sb=1

And this:
QUOTE: "This tiny piece of plastic molded with the body of the camera was
bound to break the way it's built."
URL: http://my.opera.com/mcduret/blog/200.../fixing-nikon-
coolpix-3100-battery-door

And this:
QUOTEoes anyone know why Nikon doesn't make good on the infamous Coolpix
battery door engineering flaw?
URL: http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?
az=show_topic&forum=153&topic_id=6718&mesg_id=6718 &page=4

Here's another:
QUOTE: "What happens is that the battery door breaks, and it doesn't stay
closed"
URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE82Ye6ksyY

And another:
QUOTE: "What broke is this little tiny piece of plastic"
URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cebruSCluZM

And another:
Quote: Here is a summary review of ways people fixed their Nikon Coolpix
battery door latches when they invariably broke."
URL: http://www.electronicspoint.com/summ...e-fixed-their-
nikon-coolpix-camera-battery-door-latch-t102999.html

And another:
URL: http://www.instructables.com/id/Niko...tery-door-fix/

And so on.

Once you look at the tiny plastic catch engineered by Nikon, you'll see
that the latch is going to break no matter what you do with that camera,
baby it or not.

It's our fault for buying these cameras. Not Nikons for making cheap
plastic garbage. If they can sell the Coolpix to us, then it's not their
fault. It's ours.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

Please list the physical injuries you have sustained as you wreaked
mayhem upon the machinery around you.

Indeed. There are a few.

Including a new ACL and shoulder-repair surgery, and a broken wrist &
clavicle, and even a suspected broken rib (I never had it x-rayed but it
hurt for months!).

But that (medical) topic is for a different newsgroup, don't you think?

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?


In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

What exactly are you doing to damage all these battery doors? If you
use a little care when opening them they will certainly last
indefinitely, so there is something else going on with those
experiencing these problems. My very first Nikon camera, a 3MP CP770 is
still working in the hands of my "Step-daughter from Hell".


So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

That might be a rule for you and your level of rough usage.

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

Why are you astounded? They are the least expensive and least rugged
lenses Nikon markets. Do not expect the same level of performance and
construction out of a $350-$500 Nikon lens as you would get from one of
their $860-$2200 lenses.


One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.


...and now there are two Rolex watches on the casualty list.

Please list the physical injuries you have sustained as you wreaked
mayhem upon the machinery around you.



So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

How did motorized lenses get into this?

The D40, D60, and the D5000 all take AF-S lenses with the motor in the
lens. Other Nikon lenses that will fit camera body will not
autofocus. You can manually focus, though.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?

Wait a minute here...my two grandsons (now 8 and 9) have been using my
Nikon for a couple of years. They're accustomed to using the
viewfinder (no live view on my camera) and have taken some pretty good
shots. If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on when the
first get it. If they run or roughhouse, they lose the privilege.
Kid certainly can be taught to take care of things.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

While dpreview has discussed the Nikon engineering flaw in detail:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read....essage=2267289

that's just one person. big deal.

i *have* a coolpix 990, just like the person in that thread, and its
battery door works fine and that's after the camera has fallen a few
times and even has a crack in the casing. the camera still works fine.

it's also a 10 year old post about a 12 year old camera, so it's not
actually relevant to anything nikon currently makes.

QUOTE: All the Nikon Coolpix camera bodies break at the battery latch
door.

definitely not all.

Once you look at the tiny plastic catch engineered by Nikon, you'll see
that the latch is going to break no matter what you do with that camera,
baby it or not.

bull****. it doesn't break in normal use.

On 2012-07-10 16:06:48 -0700, tony cooper said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?

Wait a minute here...my two grandsons (now 8 and 9) have been using my
Nikon for a couple of years. They're accustomed to using the
viewfinder (no live view on my camera) and have taken some pretty good
shots. If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on when the
first get it. If they run or roughhouse, they lose the privilege.
Kid certainly can be taught to take care of things.

That is you and your grandsons, the OP and his boy scouts sound like an
invading horde leaving a trail of destruction behind them.
Properly tutored regarding responsibility and care of expensive cameras
(& I suspect other stuff) and you have yet to report any damage
sustained.
There is nothing wrong with teaching kids responsibility & respect when
handling other folks property. This is what my father did when raising
me with guns, cameras, tools, motorcycles, trucks, cars, and much else.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 7/10/2012 7:06 PM, tony cooper wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?

Wait a minute here...my two grandsons (now 8 and 9) have been using my
Nikon for a couple of years. They're accustomed to using the
viewfinder (no live view on my camera) and have taken some pretty good
shots. If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on when the
first get it. If they run or roughhouse, they lose the privilege.
Kid certainly can be taught to take care of things.



Yup! When my kids were young I let them use my Nikkormat, which still
works well. At first they wasted a lot of film. Then I started charging
them 25 cents a roll, with developing included. The quality of their
images immediately improved.

--
Peter

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:00:02 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

The D40, D60, and the D5000 all take AF-S lenses with the motor in the
lens. Other Nikon lenses that will fit camera body will not autofocus.
You can manually focus, though.

I'm curious.

This is great information.

But how do you know that?

That is, what specific 'feature' do I look for in a lens to know if it
will work with my existing D40/D60/D5000 Nikons and how it will work in a
'future' unspecified as yet Nikon 'war camera'?

Is it the "AF-S" feature alone?

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:06:48 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on

Exactly my rules now also!

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

The D40, D60, and the D5000 all take AF-S lenses with the motor in the
lens. Other Nikon lenses that will fit camera body will not autofocus.
You can manually focus, though.

I'm curious.

This is great information.

But how do you know that?

it's common knowledge, and it also says that in the specs.

That is, what specific 'feature' do I look for in a lens to know if it
will work with my existing D40/D60/D5000 Nikons and how it will work in a
'future' unspecified as yet Nikon 'war camera'?

a 'war camera' is likely to have a focus motor in the body because it's
not going to be a low end model.

Is it the "AF-S" feature alone?

af-s means the lens has an internal focus motor so it doesn't matter if
there is one in the camera body.

non af-s lenses do not have an internal focus motor, which means the
camera body has to have the motor. if you use a non-afs lens on a
camera that lacks a focus motor, it will not autofocus. however, the
autofocus system is still running and you will have focus confirmation
as you manually turn the focus ring.

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on

Exactly my rules now also!

you need more than a neck strap. you need a chest harness.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:41:39 -0700, nospam wrote:

you need more than a neck strap. you need a chest harness.

On 2012-07-10 18:31:08 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:00:02 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

The D40, D60, and the D5000 all take AF-S lenses with the motor in the
lens. Other Nikon lenses that will fit camera body will not autofocus.
You can manually focus, though.

I'm curious.

This is great information.

But how do you know that?

That is, what specific 'feature' do I look for in a lens to know if it
will work with my existing D40/D60/D5000 Nikons and how it will work in a
'future' unspecified as yet Nikon 'war camera'?

Is it the "AF-S" feature alone?

You are not paying attention!

Back on 7/6/2012 you pretty much asked the same question. Here is what
was said back then.
Note: if you are not going to read answers given sincerely to your
questions, you are in effect telling us that all you are doing bitching
about the results of your abusive use of your equipment.
Now read the information again, and pay attention to what is being said.

I don't want to think that I have just been wasting my time with this thread.

On 2012-07-06 12:17:53 -0700, "Arklin K." said:




I don't know much about cameras. I just love to take pictures of people
(pictures are forever) doing things.

How do I find out which lenses I have will work with the cameras I have?
- Nikon D50
- Nikon D60
- Nikon D5000

You really aren't trying very hard. first RTFM! If you still don't get
it read the specs, in each case scroll down to "Compatible Lenses":
D50:

http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produc...Tabs-TechSpecs

D60


http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produc...Tabs-TechSpecs

D5000


http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produc...Tabs-TechSpecs




Each

came (from Costco) with two lenses.

Irrelevant.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:41:37 -0700, nospam wrote:

af-s means the lens has an internal focus motor so it doesn't matter if
there is one in the camera body.

This is great information.

So, do I have it right based on what you kindly wrote?

1. The so-called Nikon 'war camera' is likely to have a focus motor in
the body while the D-series Nikons I own (D50/D60/D5000) do not have a
focus motor in the body.

2. Nikon AF-S lenses have a focus motor in the lens while non AF-S lenses
have no focus motor.

3. I can use any Nikon AF-S lens in any Nikon camera and it will
automatically focus (because there is at least one focus motor).

4. I can use any Nikon non-AF-S lens in any Nikon camera but it will not
automatically focus in the D-series cameras I own (because there is no
focus motor).

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:31:08 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:00:02 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

The D40, D60, and the D5000 all take AF-S lenses with the motor in the
lens. Other Nikon lenses that will fit camera body will not autofocus.
You can manually focus, though.

I'm curious.

This is great information.

But how do you know that?

Research on the web is quick, easy, and free.

That is, what specific 'feature' do I look for in a lens to know if it
will work with my existing D40/D60/D5000 Nikons and how it will work in a
'future' unspecified as yet Nikon 'war camera'?

Is it the "AF-S" feature alone?

Yes, the "AF-S" stands for Auto Focus - Silent Wave Motor. As far as
I know, all AF-S lenses will fit all three cameras. Some non-AF-S
lenses will attach, but you will lose the autofocus feature. Some of
the non-AF-S lenses will autofocus on bodies with the motor drive in
the body. Not all camera bodies and lenses were designed for
autofocus.

I will say that you need to order an AF-S lens if you intend to use it
on your D40/D60/D5000 bodies if you want the camera to autofocus (And
I'm sure you do, and you should).

You can Google for AF-S lenses, or for lenses compatible with any of
those bodies (if compatible for one, it's compatible for all three),
but I see no place in any tech sheet that tells you if the bayonet
mount is plastic or metal.

Your best bet is to Google for AF-S lenses, pick out the ones you want
based on price and specifications, and then go to a real camera store
that sells new merchandise and look at the damn thing to see if the
flange is plastic or metal. Forget Costco. They don't have the
selection of lenses only on display that a real camera store has.

You may want to make the actual purchase from Adorama or B&H photo,
but know what you want and need before you order.

Other brands of lenses have the AF-S feature. I have a Tamron AF-S
18/270mm zoom lens that I use. A good walk-about lens with a wide
range, but not as sharp at any setting as a prime lens. ("Prime"
being a non-zoom lens) Sigma makes AF-S lenses, but I haven't heard
good things about Sigma lenses. Tamron makes AF-S lenses for both
Nikon and Canon bodies, so you have to check to see which it is.

I'm not even going to address that "war camera" idea. It's
ridiculous. No camera is impervious to damage. You don't buy a
camera in order to be able to drop it or treat it carelessly. You
either buy the least expensive camera/lens combo you can find and
figure you will replace whatever you break, or you learn to take more
care.










--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:41:37 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

The D40, D60, and the D5000 all take AF-S lenses with the motor in the
lens. Other Nikon lenses that will fit camera body will not autofocus.
You can manually focus, though.

I'm curious.

This is great information.

But how do you know that?

it's common knowledge, and it also says that in the specs.

"Common knowledge" is what everyone knows. This guy doesn't. I
suspect there are hundreds of cameras that require AF-S lenses sold
every year to people who like Arklin have no idea that the motor is in
the lens. Ask the people in Coach.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:49:16 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:41:37 -0700, nospam wrote:

af-s means the lens has an internal focus motor so it doesn't matter if
there is one in the camera body.

This is great information.

So, do I have it right based on what you kindly wrote?

1. The so-called Nikon 'war camera'

There is no "war camera". That's your own invention. If you would
ask a credentialed combat photo-journalist why he chose the cameras he
carries, he'd talk about the features non-related to durability. His
"war" preparation is more likely to be his camera bag because he's
concerned about how the camera is protected when *not* being used.

Sgt Jeremy Lock was Military Photographer of the Year in 2007. He
carries a Nikon D2X. You could break a D2X just as easily as a D40.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:41:39 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on

Exactly my rules now also!

you need more than a neck strap. you need a chest harness.

Yeah, right. And if the kid falls down face first? Better to teach
the kid not to run with the camera.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

af-s means the lens has an internal focus motor so it doesn't matter if
there is one in the camera body.

This is great information.

So, do I have it right based on what you kindly wrote?

1. The so-called Nikon 'war camera' is likely to have a focus motor in
the body while the D-series Nikons I own (D50/D60/D5000) do not have a
focus motor in the body.

the d50 has a focus motor. the others do not.

you can tell by a mechanical coupling pin around the 7 o'clock position
when looking into the mirror box, or by just trying a non-afs lens.

as for a mythical war camera, it's likely to have a motor because only
midrange and high end cameras are weather sealed and ruggedized, and
those are the cameras that users with a lot of lenses tend to buy, so
there's a motor included for the older lenses they might already have.

low end bodies are rarely used with more than 1 or 2 lenses, normally
the kit lenses which have their own focus motors, so there's no point
in having an additional and redundant motor in the body that won't ever
get used. as a result, the camera can be lighter and less expensive.
low end bodies are not going to be ruggedized or sealed, so you really
don't need to worry about a focus motor.

2. Nikon AF-S lenses have a focus motor in the lens while non AF-S lenses
have no focus motor.

correct.

3. I can use any Nikon AF-S lens in any Nikon camera and it will
automatically focus (because there is at least one focus motor).

yes if the camera is an autofocus body *and* knows about af-s lenses,
which goes back 10-15 years (i don't remember exactly when they first
came out). obviously, older manual focus bodies will not autofocus.

older nikon autofocus bodies do not know about af-s lenses because af-s
had not yet been released, so they will only focus with lenses that
have a mechanical coupling. the logic for af-s is not in the camera and
it actually has fewer pins on the mount.

4. I can use any Nikon non-AF-S lens in any Nikon camera but it will not
automatically focus in the D-series cameras I own (because there is no
focus motor).

correct, almost (ignoring the d50 which has a motor).

the issue is with very old non-ai lenses from the 1960s and early
1970s. those will not fit on most recent nikon cameras and are almost
guaranteed to cause damage if you try.

however, they *will* fit on the nikon bodies that don't have focus
motors, e.g., d40, d60, etc. without damaging them.

this is not a guarantee and whether this remains true in the future is
unknown. it's more of a fluke that they work, as opposed to being a
deliberate design decision by nikon to maintain compatibility with 50
year old lenses.

if you have a non-ai lens, you *must* check to see if it will cause
damage and be absolutely positive it will not. if you aren't sure, do
not even try.

it's unlikely you have any of those lenses or ever will because they're
so old, so i wouldn't worry too much about it. however, just in case
you do or find a lens at a garage sale for a buck or two that happens
to be non-ai, you need to check before you damage something, which you
seem to do so easily.

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

This is great information.

But how do you know that?

it's common knowledge, and it also says that in the specs.

"Common knowledge" is what everyone knows. This guy doesn't.

that's why he asked how others knew it.

I suspect there are hundreds of cameras that require AF-S lenses sold
every year to people who like Arklin have no idea that the motor is in
the lens. Ask the people in Coach.

and almost all of them don't give a crap where the motor is. as long as
it focuses and takes pictures, they're happy.

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

Other brands of lenses have the AF-S feature. I have a Tamron AF-S
18/270mm zoom lens that I use. A good walk-about lens with a wide
range, but not as sharp at any setting as a prime lens. ("Prime"
being a non-zoom lens) Sigma makes AF-S lenses, but I haven't heard
good things about Sigma lenses. Tamron makes AF-S lenses for both
Nikon and Canon bodies, so you have to check to see which it is.

nope. only nikon makes af-s lenses.

other brands of lenses may have internal motors, but they call it
something else. tamron calls it bim (built-in motor) or pzd (piezo
drive). sigma calls it hsm (high speed motor). it doesn't look like
tokina has a designation so you just have to check.

just about all lenses these days have internal motors because there are
so many nikon cameras without motors, so it's very likely it will have
one. canon eos never had a motor, so all the lensmakers really need to
do is change the mount and the lens firmware to work with nikon.

older lenses may or may not have motors, depending on how old the lens
is, so for someone buying used lenses, it's very important to check for
compatibility.

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on

Exactly my rules now also!

you need more than a neck strap. you need a chest harness.

Yeah, right. And if the kid falls down face first? Better to teach
the kid not to run with the camera.

how would a neck strap have helped in this contrived situation? it
wouldn't.

in any event, it's much better to teach the kid how to fall and not get
injured, because they're going to fall at one time or another. cameras
can be replaced. kids can't.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 21:01:37 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

Other brands of lenses have the AF-S feature. I have a Tamron AF-S
18/270mm zoom lens that I use. A good walk-about lens with a wide
range, but not as sharp at any setting as a prime lens. ("Prime"
being a non-zoom lens) Sigma makes AF-S lenses, but I haven't heard
good things about Sigma lenses. Tamron makes AF-S lenses for both
Nikon and Canon bodies, so you have to check to see which it is.

nope. only nikon makes af-s lenses.

You are correct. I should have written "AF-S comparable". The "AF-S"
is Nikon's designation, and only Nikon's designation. However, other
companies make lenses that work with the D40/D60/D6000 bodies in the
same way that the AF-S lenses work.

Actually, it's just the "S" that other brands omit. B&H's specs for
Tamron's AF-S-style lenses describe them as "Piezo drive AF motor".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 21:01:39 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on

Exactly my rules now also!

you need more than a neck strap. you need a chest harness.

Yeah, right. And if the kid falls down face first? Better to teach
the kid not to run with the camera.

how would a neck strap have helped in this contrived situation? it
wouldn't.

What about "Better to teach the kid not to run with the camera" is
difficult for you to understand?

in any event, it's much better to teach the kid how to fall and not get
injured, because they're going to fall at one time or another. cameras
can be replaced. kids can't.

Oh, yeah. Give the kid a $1,000 camera and teach him how to fall with
it. You are just full of good suggestions. Full of something,
anyway.





--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

Other brands of lenses have the AF-S feature. I have a Tamron AF-S
18/270mm zoom lens that I use. A good walk-about lens with a wide
range, but not as sharp at any setting as a prime lens. ("Prime"
being a non-zoom lens) Sigma makes AF-S lenses, but I haven't heard
good things about Sigma lenses. Tamron makes AF-S lenses for both
Nikon and Canon bodies, so you have to check to see which it is.

nope. only nikon makes af-s lenses.

You are correct. I should have written "AF-S comparable".

the word you want is 'compatible'.

The "AF-S"
is Nikon's designation, and only Nikon's designation. However, other
companies make lenses that work with the D40/D60/D6000 bodies in the
same way that the AF-S lenses work.

that's correct, other than the non-existent d6000.

Actually, it's just the "S" that other brands omit. B&H's specs for
Tamron's AF-S-style lenses describe them as "Piezo drive AF motor".

tamron has two types of internal motors. the piezo version is new and
is what they call their ultrasonic motor and the other motor is a less
expensive and noisier micro-motor.

nikon's acronyms are he
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/glossary.htm

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on

Exactly my rules now also!

you need more than a neck strap. you need a chest harness.

Yeah, right. And if the kid falls down face first? Better to teach
the kid not to run with the camera.

how would a neck strap have helped in this contrived situation? it
wouldn't.

What about "Better to teach the kid not to run with the camera" is
difficult for you to understand?

there's nothing wrong with running with a camera. i've done it and have
not fallen down, not that it has anything to do with choosing a harness
over a neck strap, although running with a harness would be easier and
safer.

maybe you should learn to not be a klutz.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 23:32:45 -0700, nospam
wrote:

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

Other brands of lenses have the AF-S feature. I have a Tamron AF-S
18/270mm zoom lens that I use. A good walk-about lens with a wide
range, but not as sharp at any setting as a prime lens. ("Prime"
being a non-zoom lens) Sigma makes AF-S lenses, but I haven't heard
good things about Sigma lenses. Tamron makes AF-S lenses for both
Nikon and Canon bodies, so you have to check to see which it is.

nope. only nikon makes af-s lenses.

You are correct. I should have written "AF-S comparable".

the word you want is 'compatible'.

No, "compatible" means they work together. "Comparable" means they
work alike. We don't say lenses work together with other lenses.
They work alike in that they work with the same bodies.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , tony cooper
wrote:

nope. only nikon makes af-s lenses.

You are correct. I should have written "AF-S comparable".

the word you want is 'compatible'.

No, "compatible" means they work together.

exactly! tamron's internal focus motor lenses are compatible with nikon
cameras that require af-s lenses. they work together.

Arklin K. wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:06:48 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on

Exactly my rules now also!

Make sure that it is adjusted for them and does not flop about.

--
Neil

Arklin K. wrote:

One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough).

THROWING CAMERAS INTO WATER AND EXPOSING THEM TO AGRESSIVE
FUMES DOES TEND TO DESTROY THEM.

How about a *tiny* piece of common sense? Do you have that?


Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

s/daily use .*/smashing, throwing in acid, dropping from high
flying planes and other extremely stupid and destructive mayhem/

*TRY* to be honest, at least to yourself.

-Wolfgang