On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:40:44 -0700, nospam wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take off and
on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off
and on ... all day ... every day.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else, than to
protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens (when the boy
scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663221.jpg

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)
b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)
c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)
d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

On 2012-07-06 13:27:34 -0700, "Arklin K." said:


What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

NO!

--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article , Arklin K.
wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take off and
on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off
and on ... all day ... every day.

it's not a pain. it snaps on and off very easily.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

no wonder you have trashed lenses.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else, than to
protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens (when the boy
scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

you need a lot more than a filter can offer.

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663221.jpg

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)
b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)
c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)
d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

no, what you need is to learn how not to trash your equipment.

Arklin K. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:40:44 -0700, nospam wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take off and
on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off
and on ... all day ... every day.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

Your fault.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else, than to
protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens (when the boy
scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

Ah, yes, you want the filter *and* the front elements to break
under the impact. Sure thing, go ahead. We need someone to
funnel money into the industry.

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)

Yes, if you force them all the time, some day they will fall off.
Usually people can get 5 or 10 years out of them.

b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)

I'm sure there was a passage in the instructions not to leave
the battery in for days.

c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap lens prices you can buy a lot.

d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap camera prices you can buy quite a few.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

It's called a sledge hammer. They're much cheaper. They take
a *lot* of mishandling. You can drop them from over your head.
You can smash them into rocks and concrete walls. They can be
taken most everywhere. They should do almost everything you need.
They can even take a bullet.

You can even make images with them, just use a chisel and a stone
plate. But don't whack it to hard, or the image quality suffers.


Anyway, a normal ruggedized camera won't work for you. Not
even something like (random url)
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1621

An additional deep underwater housing won't work for you.

You need to look at stuff like
http://www.visntec.com/Vision-Technologies-Products/p/3
http://www.dvsmil.com/custom.html

Military cameras such as
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/military.html
won't handle the abuse you routinely subject your cameras to.

-Wolfgang

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:

Arklin K. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:40:44 -0700, nospam wrote:

lens caps don't work too well when you want to take photos.

I agree. The lens cap that came with the camera is a pain to take
off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and
on and off and on ... all day ... every day.

Most of the time, I leave it off.

Your fault.

I do need a filter. I'm convinced of that, if for nothing else,
than to protect the lens from what happened to my last zoom lens
(when the boy scouts dropped it on the rocks and cracked it).

Ah, yes, you want the filter and the front elements to break
under the impact. Sure thing, go ahead. We need someone to
funnel money into the industry.

Sigh. If it 'can' happen, it already has happened to me:
a) Battery doors fall off (coolpix p&s)

Yes, if you force them all the time, some day they will fall off.
Usually people can get 5 or 10 years out of them.

b) Battery charger destroys battery (coolpix cp5000)

I'm sure there was a passage in the instructions not to leave
the battery in for days.

c) Lenses break (see photo above & the whole point of this thread)

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap lens prices you can buy a lot.

d) Cameras stop working (see photo below)
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...40/8663059.jpg
etc.

Happens every time you use them as sledge hammers.
Guaranteed.

But, duh, at these cheap camera prices you can buy quite a few.

What I need is a low cost (~$1,000) 'war camera'.

Do they make one?

It's called a sledge hammer. They're much cheaper. They take
a lot of mishandling. You can drop them from over your head.
You can smash them into rocks and concrete walls. They can be
taken most everywhere. They should do almost everything you need.
They can even take a bullet.

You can even make images with them, just use a chisel and a stone
plate. But don't whack it to hard, or the image quality suffers.


Anyway, a normal ruggedized camera won't work for you. Not
even something like (random url)
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1621

An additional deep underwater housing won't work for you.

You need to look at stuff like
http://www.visntec.com/Vision-Technologies-Products/p/3
http://www.dvsmil.com/custom.html

Military cameras such as
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/military.html
won't handle the abuse you routinely subject your cameras to.

-Wolfgang

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.

--
Neil

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.

So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 20:29:01 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.

So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

What you've really demonstrated in this thread is that you are an
exceedingly slow learner. If you've lost as many lenses to damage
resulting from the plastic flange snapping off as you say, a more
astute camera owner would have switched to metal-flanged lenses some
time ago.

I own four lenses for my Nikon D60 (comparable to your Nikon, but an
earlier version). The two kit lenses have plastic flanges (one has
snapped off) and my third Nikon lens (a prime lens) and my Tamron
18/270mm have metal flanges. They are available.

I have trouble understanding why you think the "camera" is a
"throwaway" when the problems are with the lenses you are buying. The
camera body will work with lenses with metal flanges.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 17:24:57 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

What you've really demonstrated in this thread is that you are an
exceedingly slow learner.

This is undeniably true. I hadn't realized the extent of my losses until
I dug into my broken-camera box, which has grown in size over the years.

a more astute camera owner would have switched to
metal-flanged lenses some time ago.

Again, I agree. It's the plastic bayonet mostly that is the problem with
the Nikon D-series SLR cameras I've been buying from Costco (although the
poorly designed battery charger was the real problem with the Nikon
Coolpix 5000).


I own four lenses for my Nikon D60 (comparable to your Nikon, but an
earlier version). The two kit lenses have plastic flanges (one has
snapped off)

As I noted earlier, I have a Nikon D60 and a Nikon D50 in my camera box
so I fully agree, the plastic Nikon (Nikkor?) lenses that came with the
Costco kit are fragile. Here's a picture of both the broken D50 and D60
made with my D5000 earlier this week:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/8663059.jpg

the problems are with the lenses you are buying.

I now realize that these fragile plastic lenses are, for me, the problem.

The camera body will work with lenses with metal flanges.

THAT's what I need! All I need, I think, is lenses that work with my
Nikon D50, D60, and D5000 that have metal bayonets!

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?


In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

What exactly are you doing to damage all these battery doors? If you
use a little care when opening them they will certainly last
indefinitely, so there is something else going on with those
experiencing these problems. My very first Nikon camera, a 3MP CP770 is
still working in the hands of my "Step-daughter from Hell".


So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

That might be a rule for you and your level of rough usage.

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

Why are you astounded? They are the least expensive and least rugged
lenses Nikon markets. Do not expect the same level of performance and
construction out of a $350-$500 Nikon lens as you would get from one of
their $860-$2200 lenses.


One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.


....and now there are two Rolex watches on the casualty list.

Please list the physical injuries you have sustained as you wreaked
mayhem upon the machinery around you.



So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

How did motorized lenses get into this?


Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

You are viewing the World of cameras through a very distorted lens.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity
to damage your cameras?

My Myers-Briggs personality is big on "P", as in ESTP. That means, in
part, that I prefer others to live and breath the way they naturally
desire. I don't wish to control them. In contrast, many people are
strongly "J" (as in INFJ), which means, in part, they prefer to control
other people's actions around them.

Kids are kids. They play. They run. They jump. They fall. They get hurt.
They cry. They get boo boos. It's part of being a kid. The whole point of
me being in the boy scout program is so that I can help the kids be kids.

One rule of childhood is that the whole point of the long childhood of
humans is to give the kids chances to make mistakes without getting
killed or maimed. Essentially, that is the whole point of 'play'.

Animals play also - but they don't play with cameras. Kids could, should,
and do 'play' with my cameras. All my kids have their own SLRs, for
example, and I give SLRs as gifts to my sister's kids.

Kids need to play with cameras so that they learn.

I 'try' to keep the cameras from being broken (hence the rule that a
strap must always be worn when snapping pictures in a canoe, for example).

But, fundamentally, I let the kids use my SLR so that they will learn how
to take better pictures.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

What exactly are you doing to damage all these battery doors? If you use
a little care when opening them they will certainly last indefinitely,
so there is something else going on with those experiencing these
problems.

While dpreview has discussed the Nikon engineering flaw in detail:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read....essage=2267289

The door itself isn't generally the problem. The problem is the spring
loaded pressure forces itself against a teeny tiny tab on the camera body
- which is destined to break.
http://files.myopera.com/mcduret/blog/IMGP0065b.JPG

This is a beautiful paper-clip fix to Nikon's engineering flaw:
http://www.uthunter.com/images/Nikonfix.jpg

Here's another user's fix for Nikon's poor engineering:
http://files.myopera.com/mcduret/blog/IMGP0070b.JPG

Googling for "coolpix battery door fix", I find, for example:

QUOTE: All the Nikon Coolpix camera bodies break at the battery latch
door. Nikon REFUSES to honor their own promise of "excellence" (ha!) so
you'll have to fix the camera body yourself.
URL: http://www.epinions.com/review/pr-Di..._Coolpix_3100/
content_405607583364?sb=1

And this:
QUOTE: "This tiny piece of plastic molded with the body of the camera was
bound to break the way it's built."
URL: http://my.opera.com/mcduret/blog/200.../fixing-nikon-
coolpix-3100-battery-door

And this:
QUOTEoes anyone know why Nikon doesn't make good on the infamous Coolpix
battery door engineering flaw?
URL: http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?
az=show_topic&forum=153&topic_id=6718&mesg_id=6718 &page=4

Here's another:
QUOTE: "What happens is that the battery door breaks, and it doesn't stay
closed"
URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE82Ye6ksyY

And another:
QUOTE: "What broke is this little tiny piece of plastic"
URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cebruSCluZM

And another:
Quote: Here is a summary review of ways people fixed their Nikon Coolpix
battery door latches when they invariably broke."
URL: http://www.electronicspoint.com/summ...e-fixed-their-
nikon-coolpix-camera-battery-door-latch-t102999.html

And another:
URL: http://www.instructables.com/id/Niko...tery-door-fix/

And so on.

Once you look at the tiny plastic catch engineered by Nikon, you'll see
that the latch is going to break no matter what you do with that camera,
baby it or not.

It's our fault for buying these cameras. Not Nikons for making cheap
plastic garbage. If they can sell the Coolpix to us, then it's not their
fault. It's ours.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

Please list the physical injuries you have sustained as you wreaked
mayhem upon the machinery around you.

Indeed. There are a few.

Including a new ACL and shoulder-repair surgery, and a broken wrist &
clavicle, and even a suspected broken rib (I never had it x-rayed but it
hurt for months!).

But that (medical) topic is for a different newsgroup, don't you think?

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?


In hindsight, looking at all my broken plastic cameras, most of my point-
and-shoot cameras fail on the fragile battery doors (Nikon Coolpix
varieties) and on the pop-out lens (Olympus varieties).

What exactly are you doing to damage all these battery doors? If you
use a little care when opening them they will certainly last
indefinitely, so there is something else going on with those
experiencing these problems. My very first Nikon camera, a 3MP CP770 is
still working in the hands of my "Step-daughter from Hell".


So, the rule there is avoid at all cost any Nikon plastic point and shoot
unless/until they learn how to design a door hinge ... and basically
avoid 'any' point and shoot that has a motorized pop-out lens (Olympus or
otherwise).

That might be a rule for you and your level of rough usage.

Looking back at all the plastic SLRs, I'm astounded to realize it's
mostly the lenses that broke, almost all at the fragile plastic bayonet
mount, although one stopped working mysteriously just after snapping
photos in the pumice of Thera, probably because of the very fine dust
infusion.

Why are you astounded? They are the least expensive and least rugged
lenses Nikon markets. Do not expect the same level of performance and
construction out of a $350-$500 Nikon lens as you would get from one of
their $860-$2200 lenses.


One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough). Yet another failed to survive
its very first cross-country ski trip down Mount Washington on my New
Year's Eve vacation trip.


...and now there are two Rolex watches on the casualty list.

Please list the physical injuries you have sustained as you wreaked
mayhem upon the machinery around you.



So, in summary, a rough visual autopsy shows that the plastic lens mounts
(on all the plastic Nikons I've owned) and plastic door hinges (only on
the plastic Nikon Coolpix variety I've owned) and motorized lenses are
what seem to break on these plastic (essentially throwaway) cameras.

How did motorized lenses get into this?

The D40, D60, and the D5000 all take AF-S lenses with the motor in the
lens. Other Nikon lenses that will fit camera body will not
autofocus. You can manually focus, though.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:58:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2012-07-10 13:29:01 -0700, "Arklin K." said:

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:12:33 -0500, Neil Ellwood wrote:

Wolfgang Don't be so gentle - tell him the truth.



Realistically, I 'have' told the kids to always use the Nikon camera
strap when they borrow my plastic Nikon SLR ... and I do like the idea of
the camera 'skin' that was proposed (although it omits protection of the
all-important plastic lens).

Why on Earth are you letting the kids have the opportunity to damage
your cameras?

Wait a minute here...my two grandsons (now 8 and 9) have been using my
Nikon for a couple of years. They're accustomed to using the
viewfinder (no live view on my camera) and have taken some pretty good
shots. If they want the camera, they put the neck strap on when the
first get it. If they run or roughhouse, they lose the privilege.
Kid certainly can be taught to take care of things.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Arklin K. wrote:

One plastic camera broke from the sulfuric fumes of swimming in the
waters around a just-submerged volcano (which also claimed my otherwise
rugged Rolex watch, interestingly enough).

THROWING CAMERAS INTO WATER AND EXPOSING THEM TO AGRESSIVE
FUMES DOES TEND TO DESTROY THEM.

How about a *tiny* piece of common sense? Do you have that?


Next time, I'll buy a sturdier camera for sure, as I realized, belatedly,
that it has cost me far more for the cheap plastic Nikons than if I had
bought a camera actually built to handle daily use in the real world.

s/daily use .*/smashing, throwing in acid, dropping from high
flying planes and other extremely stupid and destructive mayhem/

*TRY* to be honest, at least to yourself.

-Wolfgang