Ook wrote:
On May 26, 6:33 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2012 17:33:12 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:



Are there problems caused by using plastic instead of metal? Copper
isn't cheap, but it's only a 25 foot run, and I might have a few
pieces left over from when I re-plumbed my house a few years ago. I
know how to work with copper, and probably have most of the pieces
parts already. Is there any particular grade of copper that should
be used for underground plumbing? The more I think about it, the
more I like the idea of replacing the run from meter to house with
copper.

http://www.copper.org/publications/p...e_handbook.pdf
Underground Water Services—
Use Type M hard for straight lengths
joined with fittings, and Type L soft
where coils are more convenient.

Water Distribution Systems—
Use Type M for above and below ground.

Chilled Water Mains—Use Type
M for all sizes.

Drainage and Vent Systems—
Use Type DWV for above- and belowground
waste, soil and vent lines, roof
and building drains and sewers.

Well that is pretty straight forward - type M for above and below
ground. I have a couple of lengths of type M in my basement, maybe
enough to do this job. This leak is costing me $5 a day in water down
the toilet, and I'm highly motivated to stop the leak, even if it
means bypassing all the old pipe.

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

On May 26, 7:35*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Ook wrote:
On May 26, 6:33 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2012 17:33:12 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:

Are there problems caused by using plastic instead of metal? Copper
isn't cheap, but it's only a 25 foot run, and I might have a few
pieces left over from when I re-plumbed my house a few years ago. I
know how to work with copper, and probably have most of the pieces
parts already. Is there any particular grade of copper that should
be used for underground plumbing? The more I think about it, the
more I like the idea of replacing the run from meter to house with
copper.

http://www.copper.org/publications/p...e_handbook.pdf
Underground Water Services—
Use Type M hard for straight lengths
joined with fittings, and Type L soft
where coils are more convenient.

Water Distribution Systems—
Use Type M for above and below ground.

Chilled Water Mains—Use Type
M for all sizes.

Drainage and Vent Systems—
Use Type DWV for above- and belowground
waste, soil and vent lines, roof
and building drains and sewers.

Well that is pretty straight forward - type M for above and below
ground. I have a couple of lengths of type M in my basement, maybe
enough to do this job. This leak is costing me $5 a day in water down
the toilet, and I'm highly motivated to stop the leak, even if it
means bypassing all the old pipe.

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

Ook wrote:
On May 26, 7:35 pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Ook wrote:
On May 26, 6:33 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2012 17:33:12 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:

Are there problems caused by using plastic instead of metal?
Copper isn't cheap, but it's only a 25 foot run, and I might have
a few pieces left over from when I re-plumbed my house a few
years ago. I know how to work with copper, and probably have most
of the pieces parts already. Is there any particular grade of
copper that should be used for underground plumbing? The more I
think about it, the more I like the idea of replacing the run
from meter to house with copper.

http://www.copper.org/publications/p...e_handbook.pdf
Underground Water Services—
Use Type M hard for straight lengths
joined with fittings, and Type L soft
where coils are more convenient.

Water Distribution Systems—
Use Type M for above and below ground.

Chilled Water Mains—Use Type
M for all sizes.

Drainage and Vent Systems—
Use Type DWV for above- and belowground
waste, soil and vent lines, roof
and building drains and sewers.

Well that is pretty straight forward - type M for above and below
ground. I have a couple of lengths of type M in my basement, maybe
enough to do this job. This leak is costing me $5 a day in water
down the toilet, and I'm highly motivated to stop the leak, even if
it means bypassing all the old pipe.

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life
it might give me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

IIRC, "L" is heavier than "M".

On 5/27/2012 1:13 AM, Bob F wrote:
Ook wrote:
On May 26, 7:35 pm, "Bob wrote:
Ook wrote:
On May 26, 6:33 pm, Ed wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2012 17:33:12 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Are there problems caused by using plastic instead of metal?
Copper isn't cheap, but it's only a 25 foot run, and I might have
a few pieces left over from when I re-plumbed my house a few
years ago. I know how to work with copper, and probably have most
of the pieces parts already. Is there any particular grade of
copper that should be used for underground plumbing? The more I
think about it, the more I like the idea of replacing the run
from meter to house with copper.

http://www.copper.org/publications/p...e_handbook.pdf
Underground Water Services—
Use Type M hard for straight lengths
joined with fittings, and Type L soft
where coils are more convenient.

Water Distribution Systems—
Use Type M for above and below ground.

Chilled Water Mains—Use Type
M for all sizes.

Drainage and Vent Systems—
Use Type DWV for above- and belowground
waste, soil and vent lines, roof
and building drains and sewers.

Well that is pretty straight forward - type M for above and below
ground. I have a couple of lengths of type M in my basement, maybe
enough to do this job. This leak is costing me $5 a day in water
down the toilet, and I'm highly motivated to stop the leak, even if
it means bypassing all the old pipe.

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life
it might give me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

IIRC, "L" is heavier than "M".


Often type K is required for the outside buried run.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 07:27:39 -0400, George
wrote:




http://www.copper.org/publications/p...e_handbook.pdf
Underground Water Services—
Use Type M hard for straight lengths


That is the type M, right?

IIRC, "L" is heavier than "M".


Often type K is required for the outside buried run.

Possible, check your local codes.

Types K, L, M, DWV and
Medical Gas tube are designated by
ASTM standard sizes, with the actual
outside diameter always 1/8-inch larger
than the standard size designation. Each
type represents a series of sizes with
different wall thicknesses. Type K tube
has thicker walls than Type L tube, and
Type L walls are thicker than Type M,
for any given diameter. All inside
diameters depend on tube size and wall
thickness.

On 5/26/2012 9:57 PM, Ook wrote:
On May 26, 7:35 pm, "Bob wrote:
Ook wrote:
On May 26, 6:33 pm, Ed wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2012 17:33:12 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Are there problems caused by using plastic instead of metal? Copper
isn't cheap, but it's only a 25 foot run, and I might have a few
pieces left over from when I re-plumbed my house a few years ago. I
know how to work with copper, and probably have most of the pieces
parts already. Is there any particular grade of copper that should
be used for underground plumbing? The more I think about it, the
more I like the idea of replacing the run from meter to house with
copper.

http://www.copper.org/publications/p...e_handbook.pdf
Underground Water Services—
Use Type M hard for straight lengths
joined with fittings, and Type L soft
where coils are more convenient.

Water Distribution Systems—
Use Type M for above and below ground.

Chilled Water Mains—Use Type
M for all sizes.

Drainage and Vent Systems—
Use Type DWV for above- and belowground
waste, soil and vent lines, roof
and building drains and sewers.

Well that is pretty straight forward - type M for above and below
ground. I have a couple of lengths of type M in my basement, maybe
enough to do this job. This leak is costing me $5 a day in water down
the toilet, and I'm highly motivated to stop the leak, even if it
means bypassing all the old pipe.

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

I'm not sure which type is which, but you'll want the 3/4" soft variety
for this application. It comes on a roll.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Soft on a roll is K copper, if memory serves.

Me, I'd want the rigid stuff with the thicker wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it
might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

I'm not sure which type is which, but you'll want the 3/4" soft variety
for this application. It comes on a roll.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Mon, 28 May 2012 20:32:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Soft on a roll is K copper, if memory serves.

Me, I'd want the rigid stuff with the thicker wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Rigid is not approved for underground as far as I know. Could be wrong
- but I'd be wanting the flexible myself.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it
might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

I'm not sure which type is which, but you'll want the 3/4" soft variety
for this application. It comes on a roll.

On Mon, 28 May 2012 20:32:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Soft on a roll is K copper, if memory serves.

Me, I'd want the rigid stuff with the thicker wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it
might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

I'm not sure which type is which, but you'll want the 3/4" soft variety
for this application. It comes on a roll.

Think about the ground shifting, even when being backfilled.

On 5/28/2012 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 20:32:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Soft on a roll is K copper, if memory serves.

Me, I'd want the rigid stuff with the thicker wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Rigid is not approved for underground as far as I know. Could be wrong
- but I'd be wanting the flexible myself.

Me too, our water supplier only accepts type K soft tubing.



"Steve wrote in message
...

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it
might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

I'm not sure which type is which, but you'll want the 3/4" soft variety
for this application. It comes on a roll.

Anyone know why this is? Doesn't make sense, to me.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"George" wrote in message
...

.
Rigid is not approved for underground as far as I know. Could be wrong
- but I'd be wanting the flexible myself.

Me too, our water supplier only accepts type K soft tubing.

On May 29, 6:01*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Anyone know why this is? *Doesn't make sense, to me.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"George" wrote in message

...

.
Rigid is not approved for underground as far as I know. Could be wrong
- but I'd be wanting the flexible myself.

Me too, our water supplier only accepts type K soft tubing.

I checked our codes. Type M copper is allowed for underground usage.
Not sure why they don't stop at L, but M is definitely allowed for
outdoor plumbing.

The frost line here is 12". And it would be one severe and hellish
winter to actually freeze the ground that deep. Typically we don't get
enough below freezing weather go freeze the ground past two or three
inches, and even that is unusual.

Guess it's time to bite the bullet and replace the pipe. I got to
thinking, what would I do if I found a leak? You don't just unscrew a
fitting and screw a new one on. When fifty feet of pipe come together,
how do you replace a tee, for example? You can't screw the pipe in,
the pipe won't rotate. it's still buried in the ground and goes off to
Gosh knows where, you are not going to rotate the pipe to screw it
into the fitting.

I can't use a compression fitting, the pipe is too old and pitted.
Severely pitted, it would be very difficult to clean it up to the
point a compression fitting would hold.

So today's task: Finish digging up the straight shot from meter to
house. Replace it with a nice new shiny copper pipe. End of leak.

Fortunately, I re-plumbed 80% of my house with copper last year, so I
still have solder and two propane torches, left over pipe and
fittings, flux, all that good stuff. And I (almost) know how to solder
copper together. If I had done this in the first place instead of
digging up pipe, I would be done by now.

PS: The previous owner of the house buried some 4" (or so) pipe for
rain gutter drainage. Why, oh why, did the genius put it right above
the water pipe? Do you know what it is like to dig up 3/4 water pipe
that has 4" plastic pipe on top of it? I lost my motivation to keep
digging at that point.....Note to self... NEVER put drainage pipe
above water pipe - THINK about what is going to happen when you have
to dig up the stuff you are burying in the ground.

On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:01:17 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Anyone know why this is? Doesn't make sense, to me.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"George" wrote in message
...

.
Rigid is not approved for underground as far as I know. Could be wrong
- but I'd be wanting the flexible myself.

Me too, our water supplier only accepts type K soft tubing.



Any ground shift will be accepted by the soft tubing, while hard drawn
"copper pipe" will be compromized. flexible copper pipe, and NOT in a
perfectly straight line, is best. Absorbs expansion and contraction
from temp changes without "growing" into the house or "shrinking"
away.

On Tue, 29 May 2012 13:13:42 -0400, wrote:

Any ground shift will be accepted by the soft tubing, while hard drawn
"copper pipe" will be compromized. flexible copper pipe, and NOT in a
perfectly straight line, is best. Absorbs expansion and contraction
from temp changes without "growing" into the house or "shrinking"
away.

I wonder how many fitting the OP has to use in this 50' run. How many
fittings will be buried in the ground, that each pose a chance of
LEAKING again.

Fewer is 'bestest' :-\

On Tue, 29 May 2012 11:26:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 29 May 2012 13:13:42 -0400, wrote:

Any ground shift will be accepted by the soft tubing, while hard drawn
"copper pipe" will be compromized. flexible copper pipe, and NOT in a
perfectly straight line, is best. Absorbs expansion and contraction
from temp changes without "growing" into the house or "shrinking"
away.

I wonder how many fitting the OP has to use in this 50' run. How many
fittings will be buried in the ground, that each pose a chance of
LEAKING again.

Fewer is 'bestest' :-\
Another reason to use the soft copper tube. NO hidden, buried
fittings if you buy a long enouigh roll

On 5/28/2012 11:19 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 20:32:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Soft on a roll is K copper, if memory serves.

Me, I'd want the rigid stuff with the thicker wall.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steve wrote in message
...

Personally, I went with the heavier copper just for the extra life it
might give
me. City of Seattle recommended copper.

That is the type M, right?

I'm not sure which type is which, but you'll want the 3/4" soft variety
for this application. It comes on a roll.

Think about the ground shifting, even when being backfilled.

yes, a good reason to have the soft copper set in a wide trench in an
"S" fashion. Plenty o' flex room.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 5/29/2012 8:01 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Anyone know why this is? Doesn't make sense, to me.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

.
Rigid is not approved for underground as far as I know. Could be wrong
- but I'd be wanting the flexible myself.

Me too, our water supplier only accepts type K soft tubing.





too brittle. would probably be ruined during the backfill.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email