Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight. When I
returned, I saw two possible ways to enter and exit. In the kitchen, the
sliding door to the patio was open enough for someone to easily pass
through. In the fireplace room, a large casement window at the left end
of a bay window was open, and the casement operator was bent, as shown
he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9027891...in/photostream

Assuming that I forgot to lock the kitchen door before leaving home,
someone could have easily entered and exited that way, without bothering
to touch the casement window.

Assuming that the kitchen door was locked, I don't see any way he could
have entered through the casement window. There is a screen on the
inside held in place by four plastic clips. (One is visible in the above
link.) The screen was laying on the floor, undamaged, and none of the
clips was damaged. From the outside, there was no damage to the frames
of the kitchen door or the casement window, as there would be if someone
used a pry bar.

It takes a great deal of force to bend the casement operator; I couldn't
straighten it using a bench vise. It is impossible to bend it upwards as
shown in the link with the window closed because the bottom of the
window frame would have blocked it.

The crank handle was lying nearby on the floor of the bay window. It's
only held in place by friction; no need to loosen a screw.

Aside from the loss of the stuff stolen, my only expense was $45 for a
replacement casement operator (brand: Truth). The casement hinges and
locking bar were okay. The window frame wasn't bent out of shape.

Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?
2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?
3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?

To see how my home looked, go to youtube and enter "house burglary
07726" to see the 5:32 video. The place looks messy, but nothing except
the casement operator was damaged. There was no gratuitous vandalism.

R1

Rebel1 wrote in
:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight. When I
returned, I saw two possible ways to enter and exit. In the kitchen,
the sliding door to the patio was open enough for someone to easily
pass through. In the fireplace room, a large casement window at the
left end of a bay window was open, and the casement operator was bent,
as shown he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9027891...in/photostream

Assuming that I forgot to lock the kitchen door before leaving home,
someone could have easily entered and exited that way, without
bothering to touch the casement window.

Assuming that the kitchen door was locked, I don't see any way he
could have entered through the casement window. There is a screen on
the inside held in place by four plastic clips. (One is visible in the
above link.) The screen was laying on the floor, undamaged, and none
of the clips was damaged. From the outside, there was no damage to the
frames of the kitchen door or the casement window, as there would be
if someone used a pry bar.

It takes a great deal of force to bend the casement operator; I
couldn't straighten it using a bench vise. It is impossible to bend it
upwards as shown in the link with the window closed because the bottom
of the window frame would have blocked it.

The crank handle was lying nearby on the floor of the bay window. It's
only held in place by friction; no need to loosen a screw.

Aside from the loss of the stuff stolen, my only expense was $45 for a
replacement casement operator (brand: Truth). The casement hinges and
locking bar were okay. The window frame wasn't bent out of shape.

Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?
2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement
window? 3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time
to bend the operator?

To see how my home looked, go to youtube and enter "house burglary
07726" to see the 5:32 video. The place looks messy, but nothing
except the casement operator was damaged. There was no gratuitous
vandalism.

R1


I give up.

The answer is probably what the police said. Which is????

Rebel1 wrote in
:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight. When I
returned, I saw two possible ways to enter and exit. In the kitchen, the
sliding door to the patio was open enough for someone to easily pass
through.

sliding patio doors can be lifted out of their tracks,unless you have a
"burglar bar" that puts pressure on the patio door,or security pins in the
track and door.

In the fireplace room, a large casement window at the left end
of a bay window was open, and the casement operator was bent, as shown
he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9027891...in/photostream

Assuming that I forgot to lock the kitchen door before leaving home,
someone could have easily entered and exited that way, without bothering
to touch the casement window.

Assuming that the kitchen door was locked, I don't see any way he could
have entered through the casement window. There is a screen on the
inside held in place by four plastic clips. (One is visible in the above
link.) The screen was laying on the floor, undamaged, and none of the
clips was damaged. From the outside, there was no damage to the frames
of the kitchen door or the casement window, as there would be if someone
used a pry bar.

It takes a great deal of force to bend the casement operator; I couldn't
straighten it using a bench vise. It is impossible to bend it upwards as
shown in the link with the window closed because the bottom of the
window frame would have blocked it.

The crank handle was lying nearby on the floor of the bay window. It's
only held in place by friction; no need to loosen a screw.

Aside from the loss of the stuff stolen, my only expense was $45 for a
replacement casement operator (brand: Truth). The casement hinges and
locking bar were okay. The window frame wasn't bent out of shape.

Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?

go to Wiki and search for "Bump key".

2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?

to pass stolen goods outside while staying out of sight.neighbors might get
suspicious if they saw someone taking out your valuables one by one.

3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?

accident.


To see how my home looked, go to youtube and enter "house burglary
07726" to see the 5:32 video. The place looks messy, but nothing except
the casement operator was damaged. There was no gratuitous vandalism.

R1




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Apr 5, 8:06*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight. When I
returned, I saw two possible ways to enter and exit. In the kitchen, the
sliding door to the patio was open enough for someone to easily pass
through. In the fireplace room, a large casement window at the left end
of a bay window was open, and the casement operator was bent, as shown
he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9027891...in/photostream

Assuming that I forgot to lock the kitchen door before leaving home,
someone could have easily entered and exited that way, without bothering
to touch the casement window.

Assuming that the kitchen door was locked, I don't see any way he could
have entered through the casement window. There is a screen on the
inside held in place by four plastic clips. (One is visible in the above
link.) The screen was laying on the floor, undamaged, and none of the
clips was damaged. From the outside, there was no damage to the frames
of the kitchen door or the casement window, as there would be if someone
used a pry bar.

It takes a great deal of force to bend the casement operator; I couldn't
straighten it using a bench vise. It is impossible to bend it upwards as
shown in the link with the window closed because the bottom of the
window frame would have blocked it.

The crank handle was lying nearby on the floor of the bay window. It's
only held in place by friction; no need to loosen a screw.

Aside from the loss of the stuff stolen, my only expense was $45 for a
replacement casement operator (brand: Truth). The casement hinges and
locking bar were okay. The window frame wasn't bent out of shape.

Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?
2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?
3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?

To see how my home looked, go to youtube and enter "house burglary
07726" to see the 5:32 video. The place looks messy, but nothing except
the casement operator was damaged. There was no gratuitous vandalism.

R1

Answers:

1. Yes, if the casement window was left slightly open you
would not need a pry bar to open it further if you know what
you are doing... If the sliding door was left unsecured all
someone had to do was give it a tug...

2. As someone else said, the side of your house where
the casement window is located may have provided better
cover or been closer to the getaway vehicle than the slider
and may have been out of line of site from any neighbors
who were home at the time...

3. They didn't, that damage clearly occurred when the
window was pushed or forced from the outside when
it was in the fully open position... You wouldn't be able
to do that to the operator when the window is closed
as the frames of both the window pane and the window
opening would protect that piece from bending that far...

It sounds like you left one or both of these openings
unsecured when you left...

It also looks like you were robbed by junkies who
needed a fix really badly and they were looking for
money in all the typical places people hide it:

In various spots in the kitchen, under couch cushions,
under the mattress and in bedroom drawers/closets...

If your house had an alarm system installed in it,
your forgetfulness of leaving a door or window
unlocked would have only afforded the burglar
3 to 5 minutes of time inside unless you have
really terrible police response times in your area...

You were robbed by junkies because a pro would
not have left your house in such a mess and
would have only taken a small backpack's worth
of the most valuable stuff -- i.e. bank statements,
credit card statements, extra credit cards you
don't carry with you, valuable jewelry/silver, spare
car keys so they can return and steal your vehicle
at a later date, spare house keys so they can
return and burglarize your home again easier the
next time, etc... Pro burglars take so little and
leave hardly a trace behind, your burglar was
disorganized and frenzied and left a huge mess...

You should at once do the following:

If you had any vehicle or house keys which
are now missing have the door locks and
vehicle(s) re-keyed...

If you had any account statements for a
bank or credit card account go missing
have the accounts frozen/closed and
the account numbers changed...

Consider installing a home security
alarm system and some motion
detector activated lighting around the perimeter
of your home...

~~ Evan

Rebel1 wrote:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight.

Yea, I watched your video.

Interesting how they searched that one couch (threw the cushions on the
floor). No doubt they were looking for guns.

And they spent the most time in the bedroom (master bedroom). That is
typical.

I'd check to see if they got any keys (car keys, house keys, etc).

Most likely they/he went right for the bedroom first. Note how the
matress was pushed away from the foundation - again looking for
valuables - or a gun.

I was surprised they spent some time in the kitchen - going through the
pantry closet. I wonder what they thought they'd find in there... ?

Can you tell if anything in the fridge was moved around?

It looks like they spent a lot of time opening small boxes - especially
in rooms outside the bedroom. Did some of those contain photographic
slides?

The window mechanism got bent because the window was pushed open from
the inside without cranking it open. He was in a hurry - maybe he heard
a noise like you were coming home and he thought he had to make a quick
exit.

I'd like to know how thoroughly he searched any bathrooms (looking for
perscription drugs). That would tell you how much time he had - or if
he made a hasty exit out the window.

On 04/05/12 8:14 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
wrote in
:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight. When I
returned, I saw two possible ways to enter and exit. In the kitchen, the
sliding door to the patio was open enough for someone to easily pass
through.

sliding patio doors can be lifted out of their tracks,unless you have a
"burglar bar" that puts pressure on the patio door,or security pins in the
track and door.


or...

My Peachtree door was manufactured in a manner that prevents it from
being lifted out of the track.

The door is wood on the interior and they use a piece of
weather-stripped trim along the top of the frame to hold the door in place.

To remove the sliding panel you have to remove the 8 screws that hold
the trim in place. Once the trim is removed, the top of the panel can be
tilted into the room and then lifted out of the bottom track.

..

Aside from the loss of the stuff stolen, my only expense was $45 for a
replacement casement operator (brand: Truth). The casement hinges and
locking bar were okay. The window frame wasn't bent out of shape.


I can't tell from the picture, would you have to force the window open
or force it closed to cause the bar to bend up like that?

Mark

On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 20:06:19 -0400, Rebel1
wrote:


1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?
2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?
3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?


If you had the window unlatched and opened a crack, that could be
forced open with damaging the frame.
Would that do the bend? I don't know, but you can figure that out.
No way it could be forced without frame damage if it was latched.
Can't tell the distance to the ground, or if the burglar needed a
boost up.
More likely you went away for the night with the window cracked open
than leaving doors unlocked - seems to me.
Doesn't make much difference how they got in if they did it so easily.
What would concern me is how the burglar knew you were away.
Might seem paranoid, but that's what I would be thinking about.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Doesn't make much difference how they got in if they did it so easily.
What would concern me is how the burglar knew you were away.
Might seem paranoid, but that's what I would be thinking about.

I've been told by cops that a majority of these types of burglars are
committed by "neighbors" or friends of neighbors. They have an excuse to be
loitering around and they can tell when you're not home pretty easily. When
we had a rash of car break-ins, it was the junkie son of a elderly couple
living across the street that had come home to live with them. And
burglarize the neighbors for spending money.

--
Bobby G.

"Evan" wrote in message
news:71e39d3e-df6d-455b-91b8-

Consider installing a home security
alarm system and some motion
detector activated lighting around the perimeter
of your home...

Good idea. Have two very loud bells or sirens installed inside and outside
of the house. Junkies freak right out from the noise and leave (so my cop
friends say) and even pro burglars get unnerved by an unholy loud racket.
Some people even mount a flashing light on the house so it's readily
apparent where the noise is coming from. Unfortunately burglars can do a
lot of damage and take a lot of stuff in the time in takes for the cops to
arrive. That means trying to "evict" them as soon as possible. My alarm
flashes all of the inside lights that are on X-10, making the place even
more uninviting.

--
Bobby G.

On Apr 5, 8:06*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight. When I
returned, I saw two possible ways to enter and exit. In the kitchen, the
sliding door to the patio was open enough for someone to easily pass
through. In the fireplace room, a large casement window at the left end
of a bay window was open, and the casement operator was bent, as shown
he

snip

Get a alarm system installed.

On Apr 5, 8:06*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight.

Did they also break your fridge?

Rebel1 wrote:
Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight. When I
returned, I saw two possible ways to enter and exit. In the kitchen,
the sliding door to the patio was open enough for someone to easily
pass through. In the fireplace room, a large casement window at the
left end of a bay window was open, and the casement operator was
bent, as shown he

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9027891...in/photostream

Assuming that I forgot to lock the kitchen door before leaving home,
someone could have easily entered and exited that way, without
bothering to touch the casement window.

Assuming that the kitchen door was locked, I don't see any way he
could have entered through the casement window. There is a screen on
the inside held in place by four plastic clips. (One is visible in
the above link.) The screen was laying on the floor, undamaged, and
none of the clips was damaged. From the outside, there was no damage
to the frames of the kitchen door or the casement window, as there
would be if someone used a pry bar.

It takes a great deal of force to bend the casement operator; I
couldn't straighten it using a bench vise. It is impossible to bend
it upwards as shown in the link with the window closed because the
bottom of the window frame would have blocked it.

The crank handle was lying nearby on the floor of the bay window. It's
only held in place by friction; no need to loosen a screw.

Aside from the loss of the stuff stolen, my only expense was $45 for a
replacement casement operator (brand: Truth). The casement hinges and
locking bar were okay. The window frame wasn't bent out of shape.

Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?
2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement
window? 3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to
bend
the operator?

To see how my home looked, go to youtube and enter "house burglary
07726" to see the 5:32 video. The place looks messy, but nothing
except the casement operator was damaged. There was no gratuitous
vandalism.

There's a third possibility: The do-bad(s) entered through an unlocked front
door and locked the door before they left through the kitchen door. The
broken casement window may be an unsuccessful attempt to open it.

Another possibility is that he (she, they, it) is still in your house.

Robert Green wrote:

Good idea. Have two very loud bells or sirens installed inside and outside
of the house. Junkies freak right out from the noise and leave (so my cop
friends say) and even pro burglars get unnerved by an unholy loud racket.

There are very few "professional" burglars. Most are junkies
doing a "smash and grab".

I work in the alarm business, and can pretty much guarantee I'd be
able to keep most systems installed in residences from sounding
the siren or sending a signal trying to gain access. I would
think a professional burglar of high-caliber can do the same.

Without good physical security, an alarm system alone just does
not cut it for total security. Hardened openings, thick thorny
shrubs around accessible windows, lighting, CCTV, knowing your
neighbors, dogs (great for early warning if you get the right
one), a defensive weapon available, all contribute to the overall
picture.



--
My friend asked me if I wanted a frozen banana. I said 'No, but
I want a regular banana later, so... yeah.' -Mitch Hedberg

HeyBub wrote:

There's a third possibility: The do-bad(s) entered through an unlocked front
door and locked the door before they left through the kitchen door. The
broken casement window may be an unsuccessful attempt to open it.

The casement window looks like they tried to force it closed from
the outside.

--
I'm gonna fix that last joke by taking out all the words and
adding new ones. -Mitch Hedberg

I give up.

The answer is probably what the police said. Which is????

They thought it was thru the casement window. I'm still puzzled by how
they could have gotten in without leaving evidence.

Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?

go to Wiki and search for "Bump key".

The sliding door doesn't have a cylinder lock. You just rotate a lever
to open/lock it. The casement locks by lowering a lever. Again, no
cylinder lock.

2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?

to pass stolen goods outside while staying out of sight.neighbors might get
suspicious if they saw someone taking out your valuables one by one.

They stole a pillowcase, probably to hold all the small coins they
stole. The biggest single things were a Konica 35mm camera and a zoom
telephoto lens for it. They ignored a laptop in plain view and easy to
snatch. They definitely focused on small things (with high value).

3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?

accident.

That definitely could have happened as they entered, if the operator
caught on the top of a shoe. They probably would have fell face down on
the carpeted floor, but there was no signs of blood, like from a nose.

..

sliding patio doors can be lifted out of their tracks,unless you have a
"burglar bar" that puts pressure on the patio door,or security pins in the
track and door.

That would have taken time, an as I said the door (by Anderson) was on
its tracks (and also operated normally).

On 4/5/2012 11:50 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
news:71e39d3e-df6d-455b-91b8-

Consider installing a home security
alarm system and some motion
detector activated lighting around the perimeter
of your home...

Good idea. Have two very loud bells or sirens installed inside and outside
of the house. Junkies freak right out from the noise and leave (so my cop
friends say) and even pro burglars get unnerved by an unholy loud racket.
Some people even mount a flashing light on the house so it's readily
apparent where the noise is coming from. Unfortunately burglars can do a
lot of damage and take a lot of stuff in the time in takes for the cops to
arrive. That means trying to "evict" them as soon as possible. My alarm
flashes all of the inside lights that are on X-10, making the place even
more uninviting.

--
Bobby G.

Excellent ideas. I'm torn between having a silent alarm that notifies
the police so they can catch the burglars vs. a noisy one to scare them
away and let them strike elsewhere. I'll start a new thread addressing
the pros and cons of each approach.

On 4/5/2012 9:08 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Rebel1 wrote:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight.

Yea, I watched your video.

Interesting how they searched that one couch (threw the cushions on the
floor). No doubt they were looking for guns.

Excellent possibility. When my gun permit comes through in three months,
they might get lucky and find a gun if I'm not home. If I am home, well
it will be bad news for them.

And they spent the most time in the bedroom (master bedroom). That is
typical.

I'd check to see if they got any keys (car keys, house keys, etc).

None taken.

Most likely they/he went right for the bedroom first. Note how the
matress was pushed away from the foundation - again looking for
valuables - or a gun.

Or for money that people don't bother putting in a bank account because
of low interest rates.

I was surprised they spent some time in the kitchen - going through the
pantry closet. I wonder what they thought they'd find in there... ?

I had a large amount of cash in one drawer and a check made to me for
$1300. Both were taken.

Can you tell if anything in the fridge was moved around?
Nothing.

It looks like they spent a lot of time opening small boxes - especially
in rooms outside the bedroom. Did some of those contain photographic
slides?

There was one box of 35mm slides on the floor.

The window mechanism got bent because the window was pushed open from
the inside without cranking it open. He was in a hurry - maybe he heard
a noise like you were coming home and he thought he had to make a quick
exit.

Odd thing is that the crank handle that operates the casement window was
off the opening mechanism. It was only held in place by friction, not a
set screw, but it took a fair amount of force to remove it. It was lying
on the floor of the bay window.

Here's what the mechanism looks like:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9027891...in/photostream

(I've partially straightened the bend parts using a vise.)

I'd like to know how thoroughly he searched any bathrooms (looking for
perscription drugs). That would tell you how much time he had - or if
he made a hasty exit out the window.

No pill bottles in either bathroom. A few bottles for cheap antibiotics
in the hall closet. Definitely no pain killers.

On Apr 6, 8:31*am, Rebel1 wrote:
Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?

go to Wiki and search for "Bump key".

The sliding door doesn't have a cylinder lock. You just rotate a lever
to open/lock it. The casement locks by lowering a lever. Again, no
cylinder lock.



2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?

to pass stolen goods outside while staying out of sight.neighbors might get
suspicious if they saw someone taking out your valuables one by one.

They stole a pillowcase, probably to hold all the small coins they
stole. The biggest single things were a Konica 35mm camera and a zoom
telephoto lens for it. They ignored a laptop in plain view and easy to
snatch. They definitely focused on small things (with high value).



3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?

accident.

That definitely could have happened as they entered, if the operator
caught on the top of a shoe. They probably would have fell face down on
the carpeted floor, but there was no signs of blood, like from a nose.

LOL...

Laptops and cell phones and other internet connected/connectable
devices are more trouble than they are worth to a burglar, unless
the burglar in question knows which parts/software need to be
replaced before they can be safely used again without basically
sending up a flare saying "here i am, come arrest me"...

The coins, if rare, will be difficult to fence in your local area if
you
were able to give the police a detailed list of what was stolen...

Also, it sounds a lot like you can not remember if you actually
locked the sliding door or window in question, so it will not be
possible to positively identify how the burglars entered until they
are caught and offer that information up during their interrogation...

~~ Evan

On 4/5/2012 10:19 PM, Mark wrote:
.

Aside from the loss of the stuff stolen, my only expense was $45 for a
replacement casement operator (brand: Truth). The casement hinges and
locking bar were okay. The window frame wasn't bent out of shape.


I can't tell from the picture, would you have to force the window open
or force it closed to cause the bar to bend up like that?

Mark

Interesting question. If the window was fully opened, then pushing it
closed could force the bar to bend up, as that is what keeps the window
in place. Again, why bother? The window was opened when I arrived home.

On 4/5/2012 11:03 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 20:06:19 -0400,
wrote:


1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?
2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?
3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?


If you had the window unlatched and opened a crack, that could be
forced open with damaging the frame.
Would that do the bend? I don't know, but you can figure that out.
No way it could be forced without frame damage if it was latched.
Can't tell the distance to the ground, or if the burglar needed a
boost up.

The bottom of the bay window is 39 inches above the soil.

More likely you went away for the night with the window cracked open
than leaving doors unlocked - seems to me.
Doesn't make much difference how they got in if they did it so easily.
What would concern me is how the burglar knew you were away.
Might seem paranoid, but that's what I would be thinking about.

That's the consensus among my friends. Odd thing was that I was away for
almost three weeks, returned on a Thursday, and everything okay. Three
days later, a Sunday night/Monday morning, I was away overnight for 14
hours when it happened.

On 4/6/2012 12:15 AM, Ron wrote:
On Apr 5, 8:06 pm, wrote:
Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight.

Did they also break your fridge?

No.

There's a third possibility: The do-bad(s) entered through an unlocked front
door and locked the door before they left through the kitchen door. The
broken casement window may be an unsuccessful attempt to open it.

It's a possibility. I'll probably never know for sure, as I doubt the
cops will catch anyone. As G. Morgan says, the damage to the casement
operator suggests they tried closing the window from outside, but again,
why bother?

Regarding the casement window, the operator is normally attached to the
window by a rivet. That connection was broken, so the window could be
freely positioned simply by hand without using the crank operator.

"Rebel1" wrote in message
...
On 4/5/2012 11:50 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
news:71e39d3e-df6d-455b-91b8-

Consider installing a home security
alarm system and some motion
detector activated lighting around the perimeter
of your home...

Good idea. Have two very loud bells or sirens installed inside and
outside
of the house. Junkies freak right out from the noise and leave (so my
cop
friends say) and even pro burglars get unnerved by an unholy loud
racket.
Some people even mount a flashing light on the house so it's readily
apparent where the noise is coming from. Unfortunately burglars can do
a
lot of damage and take a lot of stuff in the time in takes for the cops
to
arrive. That means trying to "evict" them as soon as possible. My
alarm
flashes all of the inside lights that are on X-10, making the place even
more uninviting.

--
Bobby G.

Excellent ideas. I'm torn between having a silent alarm that notifies
the police so they can catch the burglars vs. a noisy one to scare them
away and let them strike elsewhere. I'll start a new thread addressing
the pros and cons of each approach.

There are different theories about protection because it's a very
customizable thing. I'll look for the other thread. I am sure you can
upgrade you current situation. Be aware that these things have a way of
repeating themselves if it's really neighborhood delinquents or their
friends so you need to do something sooner than later.

--
Bobby G.

On Apr 6, 7:48*am, G. Morgan wrote:
I work in the alarm business, and can pretty much guarantee I'd be
able to keep most systems installed in residences from sounding
the siren or sending a signal trying to gain access.

I have a cheap X10 with window and door sensors along with motion
detectors on battery backup. I would have no idea how to get around
it. I guess I need a job in the alarm business.

On 4/6/2012 9:10 AM, Evan wrote:
On Apr 6, 8:31 am, wrote:
Questions:
1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?

go to Wiki and search for "Bump key".

The sliding door doesn't have a cylinder lock. You just rotate a lever
to open/lock it. The casement locks by lowering a lever. Again, no
cylinder lock.



2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement window?

to pass stolen goods outside while staying out of sight.neighbors might get
suspicious if they saw someone taking out your valuables one by one.

They stole a pillowcase, probably to hold all the small coins they
stole. The biggest single things were a Konica 35mm camera and a zoom
telephoto lens for it. They ignored a laptop in plain view and easy to
snatch. They definitely focused on small things (with high value).



3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the time to bend
the operator?

accident.

That definitely could have happened as they entered, if the operator
caught on the top of a shoe. They probably would have fell face down on
the carpeted floor, but there was no signs of blood, like from a nose.

LOL...

Laptops and cell phones and other internet connected/connectable
devices are more trouble than they are worth to a burglar, unless
the burglar in question knows which parts/software need to be
replaced before they can be safely used again without basically
sending up a flare saying "here i am, come arrest me"...

The coins, if rare, will be difficult to fence in your local area if
you were able to give the police a detailed list of what was stolen...

Only one coin was encapsulated with a grade and serial number. The rest
were generic, bullion coins with no special rarity or outstanding
condition that would bring a premium above the spot value of gold. The
police do have a detailed list.

Also, it sounds a lot like you can not remember if you actually
locked the sliding door or window in question, so it will not be
possible to positively identify how the burglars entered until they
are caught and offer that information up during their interrogation...

I'm certain the casement window was locked, as it was too cool at night
to leave it open or unlocked but closed. I used the slider door an hour
or so before leaving; I'm 99% certain it was locked, but maybe I had a
senior moment.

Rebel1 wrote in
:

On 4/5/2012 11:50 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
news:71e39d3e-df6d-455b-91b8-

Consider installing a home security
alarm system and some motion
detector activated lighting around the perimeter
of your home...

Good idea. Have two very loud bells or sirens installed inside and
outside of the house. Junkies freak right out from the noise and
leave (so my cop friends say) and even pro burglars get unnerved by
an unholy loud racket. Some people even mount a flashing light on the
house so it's readily apparent where the noise is coming from.
Unfortunately burglars can do a lot of damage and take a lot of stuff
in the time in takes for the cops to arrive. That means trying to
"evict" them as soon as possible. My alarm flashes all of the inside
lights that are on X-10, making the place even more uninviting.

--
Bobby G.

Excellent ideas. I'm torn between having a silent alarm that notifies
the police so they can catch the burglars vs. a noisy one to scare
them away and let them strike elsewhere. I'll start a new thread
addressing the pros and cons of each approach.


Alarms have a high false rate,that aggravates police,and if
noisy,aggravates your neighbors. I have also heard bad stuff about ADT,that
their sign is like an invitation to burglars.

Noisy alarm infers that your neighbors would actually do something.
NOT always true.

Why are the only possible entrances the kitchen "door"(sliding patio door?)
or the window? Why couldn't they use a bump key on another door? it only
takes a second to unlock a door with one,and it leaves no evidence.
they can even lock the door behind them.

also,I've heard that prying up on a patio door can unlatch it and then it
can be slid open normally. those locks are not that secure.
you need to pin or burglar-bar it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Rebel1 wrote in
:

On 4/5/2012 9:08 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Rebel1 wrote:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight.

Yea, I watched your video.

Interesting how they searched that one couch (threw the cushions on the
floor). No doubt they were looking for guns.

Excellent possibility. When my gun permit comes through in three months,
they might get lucky and find a gun if I'm not home. If I am home, well
it will be bad news for them.

You must live in Illinois,where you need a FOID permit just to own a gun.
(and unconstitutional)
Most states,you don't need any permit to keep a gun at home.
I suggest buying a gun safe,and BOLTING it down to the floor or a wall,or
for a small gun safe,to a bedframe. it's wise anyways,if you have kids.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Rebel1 wrote in
:

On 4/5/2012 11:03 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 20:06:19 -0400,
wrote:


1. Can anyone figure a way of getting in, either through the kitchen
door or the casement window, without leaving signs outside?
2. If they entered via the kitchen, why fiddle with the casement
window? 3. If they entered via the casement window, why take the
time to bend the operator?


If you had the window unlatched and opened a crack, that could be
forced open with damaging the frame.
Would that do the bend? I don't know, but you can figure that out.
No way it could be forced without frame damage if it was latched.
Can't tell the distance to the ground, or if the burglar needed a
boost up.

The bottom of the bay window is 39 inches above the soil.

More likely you went away for the night with the window cracked open
than leaving doors unlocked - seems to me.
Doesn't make much difference how they got in if they did it so
easily. What would concern me is how the burglar knew you were away.
Might seem paranoid, but that's what I would be thinking about.

That's the consensus among my friends. Odd thing was that I was away
for almost three weeks, returned on a Thursday, and everything okay.
Three days later, a Sunday night/Monday morning, I was away overnight
for 14 hours when it happened.



sounds like you were lucky that they didn't come in while you were home.

did you have lights on a timer to cycle on at night so it appears someone
is home? that is a good idea if you're going to be away for a couple of
days or more. also cancel newspapers so they don't pile up and give away
your absence.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Jim Yanik wrote:

Interesting how they searched that one couch (threw the cushions
on the floor). No doubt they were looking for guns.

Excellent possibility. When my gun permit comes through in three
months, they might get lucky and find a gun if I'm not home. If
I am home, well it will be bad news for them.

I suggest buying a gun safe,and BOLTING it down to the floor or a
wall,or for a small gun safe,to a bedframe. it's wise anyways,if
you have kids.

Yes.

Buy a gun, and keep it in a locked safe in your house.

Then, when you're confronted with an intruder (at any time, day or
night), you tell him -

"Wait a minute so I can unlock my safe and get my gun so I can
protect myself from you."

Such is the fallacy that the gun is an ergonomic residential protective
device.

If it's kept where it's always easily accessible, it can be misused (by
you, or someone else - with dire consequences) or easily stolen.

If it's kept in a secure safe, then it's not accessible when and where
you need it (if indeed it's ever needed).

G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Robert Green wrote:

Good idea. Have two very loud bells or sirens installed inside and
outside
of the house. Junkies freak right out from the noise and leave (so my
cop
friends say) and even pro burglars get unnerved by an unholy loud racket.

There are very few "professional" burglars. Most are junkies
doing a "smash and grab".

I work in the alarm business, and can pretty much guarantee I'd be
able to keep most systems installed in residences from sounding
the siren or sending a signal trying to gain access. I would
think a professional burglar of high-caliber can do the same.

So who do you protect against? The pro, the junkie or both? It certainly
doesn't make sense to protect against security professionals breaking in.
(-:

Without good physical security, an alarm system alone just does
not cut it for total security. Hardened openings, thick thorny
shrubs around accessible windows, lighting, CCTV, knowing your
neighbors, dogs (great for early warning if you get the right
one), a defensive weapon available, all contribute to the overall
picture.

Most residences are pretty hard to "harden" without ending up looking like
meth labs or crack houses. (-: Someone determined to get in probably will
unless you have bars on the windows. Even then, a buddy that lived in a
"gentrified" area of DC answered the door (iron grate outer door that he
thought protected him) and was splashed with a small bucket of gasoline. He
ended up opening the door and letting them rob him in exchange for not
burning him alive. That's why I have a video intercom for the front door.
We just recently had a "peephole" shooter that would hold the gun up to the
peephole to force his way in. It worked.

The first thing the OP needs to do is a site and threat assessment.

--
Bobby G.

Jim Yanik wrote:

sounds like you were lucky that they didn't come in while you were
home.

I think it's a proven fact that burglars do not want to enter homes that
are occupied.

And it probably wasn't luck.

He (probably a single intruder) probably rang the door bell and did what
he could to determine if anyone was home before he broke in.

did you have lights on a timer to cycle on at night so it appears
someone is home? that is a good idea if you're going to be away for
a couple of days or more.

Not really.

If you consider that the prospective burglar is only viewing your home
during the few minutes that he's walking up to it and standing at your
door ringing the bell, what are the odds that your timer is going to
turn on (or off) your lights *during those few minutes* ?

The trick of using a timer to turn on or off your lights only works if a
potential burglar *sees* the lights go on and off. If you have only 1
or 2 on/off cycles per night, what are the odds that a burglar is going
be around to see that?

It's better to leave a light ON CONSTANTLY, 24/7. In a bedroom or
bathroom - with the blinds drawn (but with the light visible from the
street).

Someone walking up to a house in the middle of the night seeing a light
on in what appears to be a bedroom or bathroom is a signal that someone
is home - AND they're awake for some reason.

Now, what you do during the day to create a false signal that someone is
home - I don't know...

Rebel1 wrote:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight.

I was going to ask if it was dark outside when you left your house, and
if so did you notice that any lights you knew were turned off when you
left were turned on by the burglar. ?

I think it's not typical that your house was entered in the evening.
That's when people are usually home.

Was this during a week-day, or on a Saturday / Sunday?

Did the thief have access to your house during the hours of 9 am to 5 pm
(either on the day you left or the day you came back) ?

Were any of your phone or cable-TV lines cut?

Any chance he made some calls on your phone? (It's probably too late to
press the "re-dial last number" button... ?)

On 4/6/2012 6:31 AM, Rebel1 wrote:

go to Wiki and search for "Bump key".

The sliding door doesn't have a cylinder lock. You just rotate a lever
to open/lock it. The casement locks by lowering a lever. Again, no
cylinder lock.

They couldn't have entered from another door and locked it behind them?

I would guess that common crooks don't use bump keys but I don't know.

On 4/6/2012 11:21 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
wrote in
:

On 4/5/2012 11:50 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
news:71e39d3e-df6d-455b-91b8-

Consider installing a home security
alarm system and some motion
detector activated lighting around the perimeter
of your home...

Good idea. Have two very loud bells or sirens installed inside and
outside of the house. Junkies freak right out from the noise and
leave (so my cop friends say) and even pro burglars get unnerved by
an unholy loud racket. Some people even mount a flashing light on the
house so it's readily apparent where the noise is coming from.
Unfortunately burglars can do a lot of damage and take a lot of stuff
in the time in takes for the cops to arrive. That means trying to
"evict" them as soon as possible. My alarm flashes all of the inside
lights that are on X-10, making the place even more uninviting.

--
Bobby G.

Excellent ideas. I'm torn between having a silent alarm that notifies
the police so they can catch the burglars vs. a noisy one to scare
them away and let them strike elsewhere. I'll start a new thread
addressing the pros and cons of each approach.


Alarms have a high false rate,that aggravates police,and if
noisy,aggravates your neighbors. I have also heard bad stuff about ADT,that
their sign is like an invitation to burglars.

Noisy alarm infers that your neighbors would actually do something.
NOT always true.

Why are the only possible entrances the kitchen "door"(sliding patio door?)
or the window? Why couldn't they use a bump key on another door? it only
takes a second to unlock a door with one,and it leaves no evidence.
they can even lock the door behind them.

also,I've heard that prying up on a patio door can unlatch it and then it
can be slid open normally. those locks are not that secure.
you need to pin or burglar-bar it.

Thanks for the tips. So many things to consider.

R1

On 4/6/2012 11:59 AM, Home Guy wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

sounds like you were lucky that they didn't come in while you were
home.

I think it's a proven fact that burglars do not want to enter homes that
are occupied.

And it probably wasn't luck.

He (probably a single intruder) probably rang the door bell and did what
he could to determine if anyone was home before he broke in.

did you have lights on a timer to cycle on at night so it appears
someone is home? that is a good idea if you're going to be away for
a couple of days or more.

Not really.

If you consider that the prospective burglar is only viewing your home
during the few minutes that he's walking up to it and standing at your
door ringing the bell, what are the odds that your timer is going to
turn on (or off) your lights *during those few minutes* ?

The trick of using a timer to turn on or off your lights only works if a
potential burglar *sees* the lights go on and off. If you have only 1
or 2 on/off cycles per night, what are the odds that a burglar is going
be around to see that?

It's better to leave a light ON CONSTANTLY, 24/7. In a bedroom or
bathroom - with the blinds drawn (but with the light visible from the
street).

Someone walking up to a house in the middle of the night seeing a light
on in what appears to be a bedroom or bathroom is a signal that someone
is home - AND they're awake for some reason.

Now, what you do during the day to create a false signal that someone is
home - I don't know...

Nice considerations about the value of the night lights. During the day,
having a TV or radio always on might deter. Maybe there is something
that makes it sound like someone's home and changing the TV channels
every few seconds.

On 4/6/2012 12:06 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Rebel1 wrote:

Burglars recently entered my home while I was away overnight.

I was going to ask if it was dark outside when you left your house, and
if so did you notice that any lights you knew were turned off when you
left were turned on by the burglar. ?

It was still light at 6:15 pm in NJ on that date. The lights were as I
leave them, but to be honest I didn't pay attention to the changes you
mentioned.

I think it's not typical that your house was entered in the evening.
That's when people are usually home.

They could have looked through my garage window and seen the garage was
empty.

Was this during a week-day, or on a Saturday / Sunday?

Happened between 6:15pm Sunday and 7:45am next morning.

Did the thief have access to your house during the hours of 9 am to 5 pm
(either on the day you left or the day you came back) ?

I can't remember what I did during that Sunday between 9 and 5.

Were any of your phone or cable-TV lines cut?

No, even though both are exposed and in plain view next to the incoming
AC power conduit.

Any chance he made some calls on your phone? (It's probably too late to
press the "re-dial last number" button... ?)

Actually, my caller ID stores 100 numbers. I can review them. Excellent
idea. And I may be able to retrieve my incoming calls log for that time
frame from my internet phone company (a competitor to Vonage).

Thanks,

R1

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 14:24:33 -0400, Rebel1
wrote:

On 4/6/2012 11:59 AM, Home Guy wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:



Now, what you do during the day to create a false signal that someone is
home - I don't know...

Nice considerations about the value of the night lights. During the day,
having a TV or radio always on might deter. Maybe there is something
that makes it sound like someone's home and changing the TV channels
every few seconds.

Just throwing this out there.
A car in the driveway.
Comes naturally with me, since we have 2 cars.
One is nearly always parked in the driveway or street.
Whether it's worth licensing/insuring a beater for the purpose of
deterring burglary is another question.
We always have a car parked outside when we go on vacation,
and a light on inside.
But my kids come over a couple times a day anyway, to take care of the
dogs.
We won't have any more dogs when these die in a few years.
My own view is just have good "jimmy-proof" doors/jambs with good
deadbolt locks, and keep the home well-lit at night.
Good lights on outside the doors, and at least one inside.
You could probably light up the entire outside more cheaply than
installing an alarm system that might fail.
Darkness is the burglar's best friend.
Hide well what you *can't* lose, and your insurance will cover the
rest.
Then don't worry about it. Not worth the strain.
But since I've never been burglarized, that's easy for me to say.

--Vic