I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
Let me know if further information is needed.
Thank you.
Frank

Could something be causing the circulators to stay on too long, or not
operate independently? The problem seems worse as the outdoor temp
increases. She had a new burner installed a few years ago, don't
remember complaints before then.




On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:31:04 -0400, frank1492
wrote:

I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
Let me know if further information is needed.
Thank you.
Frank

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:31:04 -0400, frank1492
wrote:

I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)

I suspect the circulator circuit may have a problem. The relay that
turns them on and off may be sticking in the "on" position.

There is also a valve in the system that will allow gravity to
circulate the water if it is opened. It should be up near the ceiling
and probably has a thumb screw on top of it.

On Apr 3, 3:31*am, frank1492 wrote:
I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
* * *The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
* * *I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
* * *The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
* * *Let me know if further information is needed.
* * *Thank you.
* * * * * *Frank

If you are sure the thermostat is OK, you need to look at whatever the
thermostat is controlling. Usually a motorised zone valve.
Operate the thermostat and see if the zone valve opens and closes.

The other posiblity is a loose connection somewhere as the fault is
intermittant.

Circulators shouldn't cause overshoot/overhheat issues. They just ensure that all rooms in multistory dwellings receive equal heat.

This might be causing your issue - read down to section on heating cycles per hour. It's the digital version of the heat anticipator found on older mercury bulb stats. Cycles per hour/firing rate is different for gas or oil, forced air or hot water, high eff furnaces, etc. http://www.honeywellcentral.com/more...qs/thermostats

This is a White-Rodgers thermostat. There was a jumper wire that was
to be cut for hydronic systems which I did. I believe that lengthened
the cycles somewhat. There was also a heat anticipator jumper which
was to be clipped to disable the anticipator, which I didn't clip.
Should I try doing that? That will of course turn the heat on a little
sooner, but I would think it would have no effect on shutting off the
heat too late (her problem.)



On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 05:55:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Circulators shouldn't cause overshoot/overhheat issues. They just ensure that all rooms in multistory dwellings receive equal heat.

This might be causing your issue - read down to section on heating cycles per hour. It's the digital version of the heat anticipator found on older mercury bulb stats. Cycles per hour/firing rate is different for gas or oil, forced air or hot water, high eff furnaces, etc. http://www.honeywellcentral.com/more...qs/thermostats

I will examine your first choice, but the second is interesting. I
would think that if gravity were allowed to circulate the water under
certain ambient room temps (perhaps caused by daytime warming) that
too much heat could be released from the registers. Therefore closing
this valve would make the heat emission more precisely correlate with
circulator action, which is what I would want. (Is this correct?)
Assuming I can find the valve when I go down next, how do I adjust
the screw to completely shut off gravity circulation?




On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:20:22 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:31:04 -0400, frank1492
wrote:

I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)

I suspect the circulator circuit may have a problem. The relay that
turns them on and off may be sticking in the "on" position.

There is also a valve in the system that will allow gravity to
circulate the water if it is opened. It should be up near the ceiling
and probably has a thumb screw on top of it.

This is a new thermostat (White-Rodgers) which replaced a Honeywell.
Both are digital. The Honeywell was replaced because of this problem,
and the same conditions occur with the new one, so rule out the
thermostat.
I will follow your suggestions. Thanks.


On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 23:09:20 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Apr 3, 3:31*am, frank1492 wrote:
I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
* * *The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
* * *I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
* * *The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
* * *Let me know if further information is needed.
* * *Thank you.
* * * * * *Frank

If you are sure the thermostat is OK, you need to look at whatever the
thermostat is controlling. Usually a motorised zone valve.
Operate the thermostat and see if the zone valve opens and closes.

The other posiblity is a loose connection somewhere as the fault is
intermittant.

On Apr 3, 11:00*am, frank1492 wrote:
This is a White-Rodgers thermostat. There was a jumper wire that was
to be cut for hydronic systems which I did. I believe that lengthened
the cycles somewhat. There was also a heat anticipator jumper which
was to be clipped to disable the anticipator, which I didn't clip.
Should I try doing that? That will of course turn the heat on a little
sooner, but I would think it would have no effect on shutting off the
heat too late (her problem.)



A heat anticipator turns the heat OFF early to account
for the fact that all of the heat has not reached the
thermostat. Even after the thermostat turns off, there
is still heat in the radiators, still making it;s way from
the radiators to the thermostat, etc. If it didn't
anticipate that, the temp would over shoot.

From the rest of your description of the problem,
the heat anticipator is not the problem.

Actually I didn't think the anticipator was the problem, but thanks
for clarifying what it does. I was of the impression that it would
turn the heat ON earlier under the assumption that it would take time
for the heat to come up, so that the actual temp never fell below the
setpoint, particularly in cold weather where the room temp might fall
quite quickly.
Any chance it could do both in some thermostats?




On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 09:04:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 3, 11:00*am, frank1492 wrote:
This is a White-Rodgers thermostat. There was a jumper wire that was
to be cut for hydronic systems which I did. I believe that lengthened
the cycles somewhat. There was also a heat anticipator jumper which
was to be clipped to disable the anticipator, which I didn't clip.
Should I try doing that? That will of course turn the heat on a little
sooner, but I would think it would have no effect on shutting off the
heat too late (her problem.)



A heat anticipator turns the heat OFF early to account
for the fact that all of the heat has not reached the
thermostat. Even after the thermostat turns off, there
is still heat in the radiators, still making it;s way from
the radiators to the thermostat, etc. If it didn't
anticipate that, the temp would over shoot.

From the rest of your description of the problem,
the heat anticipator is not the problem.

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:56:24 -0600, bud--
wrote:

On 4/3/2012 9:00 AM, frank1492 wrote:
This is a White-Rodgers thermostat. There was a jumper wire that was
to be cut for hydronic systems which I did. I believe that lengthened
the cycles somewhat. There was also a heat anticipator jumper which
was to be clipped to disable the anticipator, which I didn't clip.
Should I try doing that? That will of course turn the heat on a little
sooner, but I would think it would have no effect on shutting off the
heat too late (her problem.)

An anticipator turns the tharmostat off early to account for the heat
that is in the system. For hot water that is the hot water that is in
the radiators. Before digital, the anticipator was a small heater that
heated the thermostat when heat was on to cause it to open early.
Hydronic has more heat stored in the system when the thermostat opens
than hot air. If the thermostat does not open early enough the heat will
overshoot.
So I rule out the heat anticipator. Thank you for the clarification.

Possibility the hydronic jumper should not have been cut?
I can try resoldering it but I'm really thinking the overshoot in this
case is so large that that wouldn't explain it. Will try to get more
info from the W-R manual.

Link to thermostat information?
Sorry, I guess that would have explained the heat anticipator. Will go
there.

I assume your system is not zoned.
Correct.

I would reread the thermostat manual. Also the burner manual. Then check
if the burner follows the thermostat. That was easy with the old
thermostats, but you don't really know what the digital ones are doing.
There may be time delays in the thermostat and the burner control.
The oil burner motor seems follow the thermostat.

My system the circulator and burner both turn off when the thermostat
opens. Does the your circulator turn off, run on a time delay, run
continuously?
Will have to examine this, but why shouldn't it turn off right away??
If it didn't turn off (or delayed) that could be the problem I would
definitely think! I will look to see if the circulator turns off- if
not I'd be suspicious. Also I will see if there is a flow check, set
to stop gravity flow. Are these good ideas?

My system, installed in the 1920s, was probably originally gravity with
a circulator that was probably added. It never had a valve to allow
gravity operation after the circulator was added (sounds like a useful
feature).
You would love my system (not my GF's). I have a Putnam Steam Boiler,
converted from coal to gas. The powerpyle is a nice feature, but of
course the heating costs aren't!!! I'm reluctant to upgrade because it
just goes on and on and on...flawlessly.

On 4/3/2012 9:00 AM, frank1492 wrote:
This is a White-Rodgers thermostat. There was a jumper wire that was
to be cut for hydronic systems which I did. I believe that lengthened
the cycles somewhat. There was also a heat anticipator jumper which
was to be clipped to disable the anticipator, which I didn't clip.
Should I try doing that? That will of course turn the heat on a little
sooner, but I would think it would have no effect on shutting off the
heat too late (her problem.)

An anticipator turns the tharmostat off early to account for the heat
that is in the system. For hot water that is the hot water that is in
the radiators. Before digital, the anticipator was a small heater that
heated the thermostat when heat was on to cause it to open early.
Hydronic has more heat stored in the system when the thermostat opens
than hot air. If the thermostat does not open early enough the heat will
overshoot.

Possibility the hydronic jumper should not have been cut?

Link to thermostat information?

I assume your system is not zoned.

I would reread the thermostat manual. Also the burner manual. Then check
if the burner follows the thermostat. That was easy with the old
thermostats, but you don't really know what the digital ones are doing.
There may be time delays in the thermostat and the burner control.

My system the circulator and burner both turn off when the thermostat
opens. Does the your circulator turn off, run on a time delay, run
continuously?

My system, installed in the 1920s, was probably originally gravity with
a circulator that was probably added. It never had a valve to allow
gravity operation after the circulator was added (sounds like a useful
feature).

--
bud--

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:00:49 AM UTC-4, frank1492 wrote:
This is a White-Rodgers thermostat. There was a jumper wire that was
to be cut for hydronic systems which I did. I believe that lengthened
the cycles somewhat. There was also a heat anticipator jumper which
was to be clipped to disable the anticipator, which I didn't clip.
Should I try doing that? That will of course turn the heat on a little
sooner, but I would think it would have no effect on shutting off the
heat too late (her problem.)



On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 05:55:17 -0700 (PDT), net wrote:

Circulators shouldn't cause overshoot/overhheat issues. They just ensure that all rooms in multistory dwellings receive equal heat.

This might be causing your issue - read down to section on heating cycles per hour. It's the digital version of the heat anticipator found on older mercury bulb stats. Cycles per hour/firing rate is different for gas or oil, forced air or hot water, high eff furnaces, etc. http://www.honeywellcentral.com/more...qs/thermostats
_______________
Also, and this is something you might need your boiler service contractor to check, is to check your boiler's min and max water temps. These settings are probably inside a box on the boiler itself. Typical HI = 180 and typical LO = 120-130. YMMV, but too high a Max setting(200F or over) will not only guarantee an overshoot as in your case but can cause bleedoff into your overflow mechanism.

We're all just throwing stuff at this here, Frank, hopefully something will prove the right answer. Until then it's just "stump the chumps". LOL!

-CC

On Apr 3, 12:24*pm, frank1492 wrote:
Actually I didn't think the anticipator was the problem, but thanks
for clarifying what it does. I was of the impression that it would
turn the heat ON earlier under the assumption that it would take time
for the heat to come up, so that the actual temp never fell below the
setpoint, particularly in cold weather where the room temp might fall
quite quickly.
* * *Any chance it could do both in some thermostats?

The classic heat anticipator function is as I stated.
In the old mechanical thermostats it was based on
the current flowing in the circuit actually heating the
thermostat slightly. They used to have a setting in
amps that you could adjust to match the current in
the actual circuit. From there you could adjust further
to your needs.

In new digital thermostats, they have that function
implemented digitally, with the thermostat just cutting
off a bit before target temp. I don't think it's needed
to maintain the temp. Even with an old mechanical
one, if it was set to 70, turned on at 70, it seems
unlikely there would be enough time for the temp
to decline below 70 enough to worry about.

On the other hand, if you set a digital thermostat to
70, it's likely designed to swing between maybe 69.5 and
70.5. It would turn on at 69.5 and go off at maybe
70.3.

Then you have thermostats like the Honeywell
VisionPro where during settup you set the number
of cycles per hour that the system should come on.
That method seems a bit strange to me.

In any case, your problem is NOT the heat anticipator
or the thermostat. You've had the problem with the old
and new thermostat. You say the GF reported the
temp at 70, thermostat set to 65, radiators hot and
boiler running. Actually the above, except the boiler
running, could be produced by a programmable
thermostat that was set to maintain 70 or higher and
then just went to a new period when it changed the
setting itself to 65.

But given the overall picture, I'd say that whatever the
thermostat is controlling at the other end is having a
problem. And I'd try to figure it out fast, as if that is
what it is, next time it might not shut off at all.

A couple friends of mine had a similar moment, except they were on the 4th
thermostat, not the 2nd. Turned out that a relay on the furnace had been
sticking. I was able to troubleshoot, diagnostic. Find the sticky relay, and
replace.

In this case, long magnet tip nut setters were needed. And some skill in
wiring, and troubleshooting.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message news:216cb487-b8d6-44d6-a66b-

But given the overall picture, I'd say that whatever the
thermostat is controlling at the other end is having a
problem. And I'd try to figure it out fast, as if that is
what it is, next time it might not shut off at all.

Thank you all for your time and expertise helping me with this. I will
employ your ideas this weekend and have more data to report. I hope
some of the simpler possible causes exist, otherwise the service guy
will have to get called, and given the more complicated possibilities,
that really worries me!!!!






On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:31:04 -0400, frank1492
wrote:

I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
Let me know if further information is needed.
Thank you.
Frank

On 4/2/2012 10:31 PM, frank1492 wrote:
I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
Let me know if further information is needed.
Thank you.
Frank

From your description, it sounds like a very basic hydronic system with
a domestic hot water coil. The only parts of that system that could
cause overheating would be a faulty thermostat, which was pretty much
ruled out, possible sticking circulator relay, although doubtful, an
intermittent shunt on the thermostat cable. If it's a very old cloth
wrapped cable with cloth wrapped conductors, this is a pretty good
possibility. The last possibility would be an open flow check valve.
Crank the valve closed, then open it one turn.

The challenge is to be there at the moment when the problem occurs, and
then to find the problem.

Sticking relay, and thermostat wire insullation rubbed through sound like
good places to start.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
Thank you all for your time and expertise helping me with this. I will
employ your ideas this weekend and have more data to report. I hope
some of the simpler possible causes exist, otherwise the service guy
will have to get called, and given the more complicated possibilities,
that really worries me!!!!

Sticky relay and open flow check are high on my list!
(The thermostat wire is plastic coated.)




On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 19:18:03 -0400, RBM wrote:

On 4/2/2012 10:31 PM, frank1492 wrote:
I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
Let me know if further information is needed.
Thank you.
Frank

From your description, it sounds like a very basic hydronic system with
a domestic hot water coil. The only parts of that system that could
cause overheating would be a faulty thermostat, which was pretty much
ruled out, possible sticking circulator relay, although doubtful, an
intermittent shunt on the thermostat cable. If it's a very old cloth
wrapped cable with cloth wrapped conductors, this is a pretty good
possibility. The last possibility would be an open flow check valve.
Crank the valve closed, then open it one turn.

Yes, this does seem intermittent. When she got home from work tonight
she said everything was fine.



On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:32:02 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The challenge is to be there at the moment when the problem occurs, and
then to find the problem.

Sticking relay, and thermostat wire insullation rubbed through sound like
good places to start.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"frank1492" wrote in message
.. .
Thank you all for your time and expertise helping me with this. I will
employ your ideas this weekend and have more data to report. I hope
some of the simpler possible causes exist, otherwise the service guy
will have to get called, and given the more complicated possibilities,
that really worries me!!!!

Followup note: The burner and the circulator turned on tonight when
the temp and setpoint in the room were the same. After the burner shut
off the circulator continued to run by 3-5 minutes. The actual temp
was then one degree above the setpoint.
So far I have never seen the burner run without the circulator,
but there may not be enough observations. Will continue to post
periodically. If this were true all the time we would have something.
Comments welcome. (Thanks.)









On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 18:08:50 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

A couple friends of mine had a similar moment, except they were on the 4th
thermostat, not the 2nd. Turned out that a relay on the furnace had been
sticking. I was able to troubleshoot, diagnostic. Find the sticky relay, and
replace.

In this case, long magnet tip nut setters were needed. And some skill in
wiring, and troubleshooting.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message news:216cb487-b8d6-44d6-a66b-

But given the overall picture, I'd say that whatever the
thermostat is controlling at the other end is having a
problem. And I'd try to figure it out fast, as if that is
what it is, next time it might not shut off at all.

My friend,
I think you're right. You're well on the way to figuring it out.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
Followup note: The burner and the circulator turned on tonight when
the temp and setpoint in the room were the same. After the burner shut
off the circulator continued to run by 3-5 minutes. The actual temp
was then one degree above the setpoint.
So far I have never seen the burner run without the circulator,
but there may not be enough observations. Will continue to post
periodically. If this were true all the time we would have something.
Comments welcome. (Thanks.)









On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 18:08:50 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

A couple friends of mine had a similar moment, except they were on the 4th
thermostat, not the 2nd. Turned out that a relay on the furnace had been
sticking. I was able to troubleshoot, diagnostic. Find the sticky relay,
and
replace.

In this case, long magnet tip nut setters were needed. And some skill in
wiring, and troubleshooting.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message news:216cb487-b8d6-44d6-a66b-

But given the overall picture, I'd say that whatever the
thermostat is controlling at the other end is having a
problem. And I'd try to figure it out fast, as if that is
what it is, next time it might not shut off at all.

On Apr 6, 8:57*pm, frank1492 wrote:
Followup note: The burner and the circulator turned on tonight when
the temp and setpoint in the room were the same. After the burner shut
off the circulator continued to run by 3-5 minutes. The actual temp
was then *one degree above the setpoint.
* * *So far I have never seen the burner run without the circulator,
but there may not be enough observations. Will continue to post
periodically. If this were true all the time we would have something.
* * *Comments welcome. (Thanks.)


If it worked as you describe all the time, I'd say that
the heat anticipator setting on the thermostat could
be the problem. The thermostat turned on when
the temp shown was the same as the setpoint.
Internally the thermostat likely knows the temp is
actually 1/2 deg or so lower and so it calls for heat.

IT shuts off when the temp has risen enough, to
say setpoint plus some margin. Then the carryover
heat continues raising the temp and the thermostat
now shows the setpoint +1 deg. Adjusting the
heat anticipator or swing setting in the thermostat
could reduce the upswing.

Bottom line, the above sounds like a system that
is working, but could use adjustment. It's very
different than the other reports of the system
continuing to run and taking the room temp 5
degs above the setpoint. If those huge overshoots
are still occuring, and have occured with 2
thermostats, then you have a problem and it's not
the thermostat or thermostat adjustment.

There are two swing settings on the W-R, jumper selectable. As per
their instructions I have the setting at 1.7 degrees for baseboard.
(For hot air they recommmend 1.)
The heat anticipator is not continuously variable but is jumper
selectable. It is currently set to anticipate.
My GF has been instructed to note carefully when a gross overshoot
next occurs, to note the thermostat readings, and to check to see if
the circulator is running. When she next logs this, I will report
back.




On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 06:44:54 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 6, 8:57*pm, frank1492 wrote:
Followup note: The burner and the circulator turned on tonight when
the temp and setpoint in the room were the same. After the burner shut
off the circulator continued to run by 3-5 minutes. The actual temp
was then *one degree above the setpoint.
* * *So far I have never seen the burner run without the circulator,
but there may not be enough observations. Will continue to post
periodically. If this were true all the time we would have something.
* * *Comments welcome. (Thanks.)


If it worked as you describe all the time, I'd say that
the heat anticipator setting on the thermostat could
be the problem. The thermostat turned on when
the temp shown was the same as the setpoint.
Internally the thermostat likely knows the temp is
actually 1/2 deg or so lower and so it calls for heat.

IT shuts off when the temp has risen enough, to
say setpoint plus some margin. Then the carryover
heat continues raising the temp and the thermostat
now shows the setpoint +1 deg. Adjusting the
heat anticipator or swing setting in the thermostat
could reduce the upswing.

Bottom line, the above sounds like a system that
is working, but could use adjustment. It's very
different than the other reports of the system
continuing to run and taking the room temp 5
degs above the setpoint. If those huge overshoots
are still occuring, and have occured with 2
thermostats, then you have a problem and it's not
the thermostat or thermostat adjustment.

Do you mean "Hey Bub?"



On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 07:51:04 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

My friend,
I think you're right. You're well on the way to figuring it out.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"frank1492" wrote in message
.. .
Followup note: The burner and the circulator turned on tonight when
the temp and setpoint in the room were the same. After the burner shut
off the circulator continued to run by 3-5 minutes. The actual temp
was then one degree above the setpoint.
So far I have never seen the burner run without the circulator,
but there may not be enough observations. Will continue to post
periodically. If this were true all the time we would have something.
Comments welcome. (Thanks.)









On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 18:08:50 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

A couple friends of mine had a similar moment, except they were on the 4th
thermostat, not the 2nd. Turned out that a relay on the furnace had been
sticking. I was able to troubleshoot, diagnostic. Find the sticky relay,
and
replace.

In this case, long magnet tip nut setters were needed. And some skill in
wiring, and troubleshooting.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message news:216cb487-b8d6-44d6-a66b-

But given the overall picture, I'd say that whatever the
thermostat is controlling at the other end is having a
problem. And I'd try to figure it out fast, as if that is
what it is, next time it might not shut off at all.

That (as you stated) is his user name. As I stated, is a reflection of his
attributes.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"frank1492" wrote in message
...
Do you mean "Hey Bub?"



On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 07:51:04 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

My friend,
I think you're right. You're well on the way to figuring it out.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
My friend,
I think you're right. You're well on the way to figuring it out.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.


I notice you started your thinly-disguised and continued attack on me with
the salutation "My friend."

That's new and also a thinly-disguised attempt to garner loving kindness
from those to whom what people think of them is their highest goal.

The disgusting soliciting approbation from the decrepit.

Pitiful. Just pitiful. You should really sit in a dark corner and feel
shame.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
That (as you stated) is his user name. As I stated, is a reflection
of his attributes.



You "reflection" on my attributes is limited to calling me (and others) a
nazi.

Stunningly deviant behavior. Absolutely stunning.

My friend,
You continue to show us what Jews are really like. I encourage you to
keep writing.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

I notice you started your thinly-disguised and continued attack on me with
the salutation "My friend."

That's new and also a thinly-disguised attempt to garner loving kindness
from those to whom what people think of them is their highest goal.

The disgusting soliciting approbation from the decrepit.

Pitiful. Just pitiful. You should really sit in a dark corner and feel
shame.

Your lack of asking for clarification (So, what did you really mean?) and
continued vitriolic attacks show your inner personality. Please continue.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
That (as you stated) is his user name. As I stated, is a reflection
of his attributes.



You "reflection" on my attributes is limited to calling me (and others) a
nazi.

Stunningly deviant behavior. Absolutely stunning.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 13:00:01 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

My friend,
You continue to show us what Jews are really like. I encourage you to
keep writing.

Now *that* was low, and un-Christian. ...on the most holy of days, no less.

Ninety-nine Hail-Marys and an Our-Father, for you!

On Apr 8, 2:06*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 13:00:01 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
My friend,
* *You continue to show us what Jews are really like. I encourage you to
keep writing.

Now *that* was low, and un-Christian. *...on the most holy of days, no less.

Ninety-nine Hail-Marys and an Our-Father, for you!

I agree.

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:31:04 -0400, frank1492
wrote:

I am back with a different themostat question.
I am trying to figure out why sometimes the temperature at the
thermostat (and thus in the house- single zone system) gets too high.
I just got a new digital thermostat and the condition persists.
Diagnosis is made more difficult because the condition exists in my
GF's house and I am only there periodically.
The house has an oil burner, hydronic heat and a 24VAC control
system (2-wire). The other night she claims to have come home and
found the setpoint at 65 when the actual temp was 70, and she claims
there was heat in the radiators. She also says the oil burner was
running at the time, but I told her that might be misleading since
heat emission is largely controlled by the circulators and the burner
might simply be needing to raise the temperature of the hot tap water.
(Note: This is in the NE where the temperature all day has been in the
40's.)
I can't supply other details except that she says sometimes this
happens, sometimes it doesn't. Also she claims she can "always get the
heat to stop if she manually resets the setpoint." (Don't know quite
how to interpret that.)
The only thing I can think of is that there must be a problem
with the oil burner control module, perhaps a sticky relay. Your
thoughts?
Let me know if further information is needed.
Thank you.
Frank
Zone valve is sticking on. BTDT.