Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air could have come from? I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve - do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink & tub all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob

"Guv Bob" wrote in message
m...
Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer
now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any
plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could
cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick.
But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here
and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air
could have come from? I've tried running the water in all the faucets high
and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve -
do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different things to try
and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink & tub all
tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the
toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet
downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob


Water hammer is not caused by air in the pipes. In fact air in the pipes
would help prevent it. Your problems are probably caused by the toilet
shutting the water off too quickly. Changing or repairing the ballcock may
cure the problem.

On Feb 12, 10:37*pm, "Guv Bob"
wrote:
Howdy folks! * When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer now. *Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. *But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air could have come from? *I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve - do you know any way to tell? *Sounds like there are different things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... *the toilet, sink & tub all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the toilet hammers. * Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. *Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob

Simplest thing to try first:

Stolen without permission from:

http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumb..._plumb_sys.htm

Draining the Plumbing System

To drain the plumbing system proceed as follows:

Shut off the main water valve at the water meter
Starting at the top floor, open all the sink faucets;
Go to the basement or the lowest level in your home and open the
faucet in your laundry tub and let all the water from the above floors
drain out;
Now go back upstairs or to the highest level in the home and open
the tub/shower faucets;
Now go flush all the toilets;
Leave the faucets in an open position;

Charging the Plumbing System with Water

To activate the plumbing system and refill it with water proceed as
follows:

Close the basement faucet or lowest level faucet in the house;
Now close all the upper faucets. Closing the faucets allows air
remain in the pipes to recharge the air chambers you may have in your
home's plumbing system;
Go back and open the main water valve to let the water back into
your pipes;
Now, one by one, starting with the highest level faucets, turn on
the faucets and let the air/water sputter out until only clear water
flows from the faucet.
You may see discolored water come out at first, this is normal.
Open the shower faucets;
Flush the toilets
Once the water is running clear, turn off the faucets starting at
the highest floor level and work your way down through the house. You
may have an occasional sputter the next time you use a faucet but any
remaining air will quickly be purged.

My City had replaced many tuberculated water mains and one day I was in my
basement while a load of washing was going on upstairs. That washer had a
rinse cycle where fresh water was sprayed into the sidewall of the tub as it
spun, to flush though the load and help remove any residue. That valve
cycled about 2 secs on, and 6 secs off, for about 3 minutes. It always made
a hell of a racket when in that cycle with the water hammer. I had also a
year before replaced the very badly tuberculated 3/4" gal. main with 3/4"
copper. This day while in my basement I was standing next to the hot water
tank and as the hammer occured, I noticed that with each shut-off of the
washer, the safely valve on the hot water tank spit a decent stream. I
checked the tag on the safety valve and it said it tripped at 175 psi. Next
day I purchased a water pressure gauge and installed it and was shocked to
see my pressure was 110 psi. The hammer was jacking my pressure over 66 psi.
I immediately purchased a 1" pressure regulator and installed it and dropped
my working pressure down to 45 and now all is well. My sprinkler system
seems to work fine at that pressure and should last much longer than at that
high pressure.
.. . . My badly plugged 3/4" Gal main had evidently provided just the amount
of resistance so that the higher pressure didn't seem to be noticed at the
working end. The new copper main changed all that. Now I can shower with a
sprinkler zone operating and not get any change in my shower water using the
45 psi setting. Copper was .50 cents a pound when I bought my $60
regulator...hate to see what they cost now. An experienced pipefitter told
me to get a regulator a size bigger than my main...Before this modification
I could not keep washers in the valves in my bathroom or kitchen. No
problem now. I did 'open' the inlet holes on my toilet tank valve as it
took quite a time longer to fill at the lowered pressure.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:37:43 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air could have come from? I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve - do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink & tub all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob


You should see some vertical capped pipes in your water system.
These basically serve as air chambers to absorb shock.
In my house there are only 2, one on a hot and one on a cold water
feed to the basement laundry tub faucets. About 18" long.
They serve the entire house, since they connect to all hot/cold lines.

If you have these capped lines, the usual explanation for water hammer
is they have filled with water because over the years the oxygen in
them was absorbed by the water.
The solution is to drain all water to below their level, so the water
in them can gurgle out and be replaced by air.
If you don't have these air chambers, I don't know what to tell you.
Always had them in my houses.

--Vic

Before I caught my hot water tank venting during the water hammer I had
inserted two 4 foot 1/2" copper capped tubes vertically inside the wall
above my washer water shut off valve, trying to make a resevour to capture
air to dampen the hammer. That didn't work. Later in my basement I silver
soldered some refrig valves (Schraeder) into the hot and cold lines under my
laundry room. I have an air compressor in my basement and a 'main' with
many quick connects. One was handy to this area and I injected air into the
laundry water feed lines, but didn't get much result. This was a waste of
time and money. The regulator was the trick.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:04:40 -0700, "Chas"
wrote:


Before I caught my hot water tank venting during the water hammer I had
inserted two 4 foot 1/2" copper capped tubes vertically inside the wall
above my washer water shut off valve, trying to make a resevour to capture
air to dampen the hammer. That didn't work. Later in my basement I silver
soldered some refrig valves (Schraeder) into the hot and cold lines under my
laundry room. I have an air compressor in my basement and a 'main' with
many quick connects. One was handy to this area and I injected air into the
laundry water feed lines, but didn't get much result. This was a waste of
time and money. The regulator was the trick.


There you go.
If water pressure is too high there's enough shock to overcome what
the air chambers can absorb, and hammer anyway.
You fixed it.

--Vic

On Feb 12, 9:04*pm, "Chas" wrote:
Before I caught my hot water tank venting during the water hammer I had
inserted two 4 foot 1/2" copper capped tubes vertically inside the wall
above my washer water shut off valve, trying to make a resevour to capture
air to dampen the hammer. *That didn't work. *Later in my basement I silver
soldered some refrig valves (Schraeder) into the hot and cold lines under my
laundry room. *I have an air compressor in my basement and a 'main' with
many quick connects. *One was handy to this area and I injected air into the
laundry water feed lines, but didn't get much result. *This was a waste of
time and money. *The regulator was the trick.

A proper water hammer arrestor is the solution.
Either piston or bellows style.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...ls.asp?pid=741
http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...s.asp?pid=7137

cheers
Bob

"Guv Bob" wrote in message
m...
Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water
hammer now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had
any plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this
could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one
quick. But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good
advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the
air could have come from? I've tried running the water in all the faucets
high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the
valve - do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different
things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest
ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink & tub
all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only
the toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet
downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob

You can buy these water hammer preventers in most hardware stores or on the
web.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss... r%2Caps%2C335

Instead of installing them where you hear the banging, it is important to
install them within three feet of the fixture that causes the water hammer.
I installed them at my kitchen sink and near the washing machine. They work
fine. The stupid plumber wanted to open up the wall to fasten the pipe!

Walter

www.rationality.net

"Guv Bob" wrote in message
m...
Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer
now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any
plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could
cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick.
But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here
and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air
could have come from? I've tried running the water in all the faucets high
and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve -
do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different things to try
and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink & tub all
tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the
toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet
downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob
Try the easy thing first. Change the washer/diaphragm on the float valve
first.
Often cures the problem.
It's not always air.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:37:43 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any plumbing work done.

Have you replaced your washing machine hoses with woven metal covered
hoses? That will cause it. The totally rubber hoses can prevent
water hammer. (Athough maybe the hammer I had mostly occurred when
the washing machine was running. It's been 18 years and I forgot
this. But the remedy may be the same. )

But unless you turn the water off every time you finish using the
wshing machine, you should replace the hoses. Otherwise they'll burst
after about 10 years.

I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air could have come from?

I think air is the remedy, not the cause. Air is compressable, so
air in the system makes the water slow down gradually.

I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve - do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink & tub all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

You can get water hammer arrestors at the hardware store. The screw
on between the washing machine and the hoses, or the hoses and the
valves. They have air chambers about 4 inches long, and they work.

When you installl these, put in the new hoses with stainless steel
woven covers. You may only need an arrestor on the cold water,
since that's the water your toilet uses. I think for several years,
I only had one. Maybe I still only have one.

Of course the washing machine has a valve that closes the hot water.
I use the washing machine a lot less than I flush the toilet, and I
don't remember if there is or was hammer from the hot water.

There may be something similar for the bathroom, but the washing
machine ones may work for the bathrooms too. .

Eventually the rubber bladder between the air and the water will
break, and then after a while, the air will disolve in the water and
there will be no air. Then you will need another one. Mine have
been working fine for about 18 years.

Bob

Chas wrote:
My City had replaced many tuberculated water mains and one day I was
in my basement while a load of washing was going on upstairs. That
washer had a rinse cycle where fresh water was sprayed into the
sidewall of the tub as it spun, to flush though the load and help
remove any residue. That valve cycled about 2 secs on, and 6 secs
off, for about 3 minutes. It always made a hell of a racket when in
that cycle with the water hammer. I had also a year before replaced
the very badly tuberculated 3/4" gal. main with 3/4" copper. This
day while in my basement I was standing next to the hot water tank
and as the hammer occured, I noticed that with each shut-off of the
washer, the safely valve on the hot water tank spit a decent stream. I
checked the tag on the safety valve and it said it tripped at 175
psi. Next day I purchased a water pressure gauge and installed it
and was shocked to see my pressure was 110 psi. The hammer was
jacking my pressure over 66 psi. I immediately purchased a 1"
pressure regulator and installed it and dropped my working pressure
down to 45 and now all is well. My sprinkler system seems to work
fine at that pressure and should last much longer than at that high
pressure. . . . My badly plugged 3/4" Gal main had evidently provided
just the amount of resistance so that the higher pressure didn't seem
to be noticed at the working end. The new copper main changed all
that. Now I can shower with a sprinkler zone operating and not get
any change in my shower water using the 45 psi setting. Copper was
.50 cents a pound when I bought my $60 regulator...hate to see what
they cost now. An experienced pipefitter told me to get a regulator
a size bigger than my main...Before this modification I could not
keep washers in the valves in my bathroom or kitchen. No problem
now. I did 'open' the inlet holes on my toilet tank valve as it took
quite a time longer to fill at the lowered pressure.

"Tuberculated water main" = Rust or scale build-up in the pipe

"Plumberosclerosis". Narrowing of the pipes. New word, just invented it.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Chas wrote:
My City had replaced many tuberculated water mains and one day I was
in my basement while a load of washing was going on upstairs. That
washer had a rinse cycle where fresh water was sprayed into the

"Tuberculated water main" = Rust or scale build-up in the pipe

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:mV7
:

"Plumberosclerosis". Narrowing of the pipes. New word, just invented it.

Watch out for the kidney stones ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/12/2012 11:43 PM, DD_BobK wrote:
On Feb 12, 9:04 pm, wrote:
Before I caught my hot water tank venting during the water hammer I had
inserted two 4 foot 1/2" copper capped tubes vertically inside the wall
above my washer water shut off valve, trying to make a resevour to capture
air to dampen the hammer. That didn't work. Later in my basement I silver
soldered some refrig valves (Schraeder) into the hot and cold lines under my
laundry room. I have an air compressor in my basement and a 'main' with
many quick connects. One was handy to this area and I injected air into the
laundry water feed lines, but didn't get much result. This was a waste of
time and money. The regulator was the trick.

A proper water hammer arrestor is the solution.
Either piston or bellows style.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...ls.asp?pid=741
http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...s.asp?pid=7137

cheers
Bob

foot long air chambers have worked for decades and still do.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/13/2012 6:27 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Chas wrote:
My City had replaced many tuberculated water mains and one day I was
in my basement while a load of washing was going on upstairs. That
washer had a rinse cycle where fresh water was sprayed into the
sidewall of the tub as it spun, to flush though the load and help
remove any residue. That valve cycled about 2 secs on, and 6 secs
off, for about 3 minutes. It always made a hell of a racket when in
that cycle with the water hammer. I had also a year before replaced
the very badly tuberculated 3/4" gal. main with 3/4" copper. This
day while in my basement I was standing next to the hot water tank
and as the hammer occured, I noticed that with each shut-off of the
washer, the safely valve on the hot water tank spit a decent stream. I
checked the tag on the safety valve and it said it tripped at 175
psi. Next day I purchased a water pressure gauge and installed it
and was shocked to see my pressure was 110 psi. The hammer was
jacking my pressure over 66 psi. I immediately purchased a 1"
pressure regulator and installed it and dropped my working pressure
down to 45 and now all is well. My sprinkler system seems to work
fine at that pressure and should last much longer than at that high
pressure. . . . My badly plugged 3/4" Gal main had evidently provided
just the amount of resistance so that the higher pressure didn't seem
to be noticed at the working end. The new copper main changed all
that. Now I can shower with a sprinkler zone operating and not get
any change in my shower water using the 45 psi setting. Copper was
.50 cents a pound when I bought my $60 regulator...hate to see what
they cost now. An experienced pipefitter told me to get a regulator
a size bigger than my main...Before this modification I could not
keep washers in the valves in my bathroom or kitchen. No problem
now. I did 'open' the inlet holes on my toilet tank valve as it took
quite a time longer to fill at the lowered pressure.

"Tuberculated water main" = Rust or scale build-up in the pipe



we also have about 110 psi. Makes for a nice garden hose pressure if
you keep your hose outlets before the regulator. G.

PS: don't use the yellow hoses from Walmart. LMAO!!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/12/2012 10:37 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air could have come from? I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve - do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink& tub all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob




I have one line to a toilet that will hammer violently if the wall
shutoff valve isn't fully open. Fully open there is no problem at all.

Probably won't help you but but its easy enough to check.

John

On Feb 13, 10:25*am, John wrote:
On 2/12/2012 10:37 PM, Guv Bob wrote:

Howdy folks! * When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer now. *Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. *But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air could have come from? *I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve - do you know any way to tell? *Sounds like there are different things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... *the toilet, sink& *tub all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the toilet hammers. * Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. *Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob

I have one line to a toilet that will hammer violently if the wall
shutoff valve isn't fully open. Fully open there is no problem at all.

Probably won't help you but but its easy enough to check.

John

see if the loose pipes can be located and secured with copper straps

On Feb 13, 9:48*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/13/2012 6:27 AM, HeyBub wrote:





Chas wrote:
My City had replaced many tuberculated water mains and one day I was
in my basement while a load of washing was going on upstairs. *That
washer had a rinse cycle where fresh water was sprayed into the
sidewall of the tub as it spun, to flush though the load and help
remove any residue. *That valve cycled about 2 secs on, and 6 secs
off, for about 3 minutes. *It always made a hell of a racket when in
that cycle with the water hammer. I had also a year before replaced
the very badly tuberculated 3/4" gal. main with 3/4" copper. *This
day while in my basement I was standing next to the hot water tank
and as the hammer occured, I noticed that with each shut-off of the
washer, the safely valve on the hot water tank spit a decent stream. I
checked the tag on the safety valve and it said it tripped at 175
psi. *Next day I purchased a water pressure gauge and installed it
and was shocked to see my pressure was 110 psi. The hammer was
jacking my pressure over 66 psi. I immediately purchased a 1"
pressure regulator and installed it and dropped my working pressure
down to 45 and now all is well. *My sprinkler system seems to work
fine at that pressure and should last much longer than at that high
pressure. . . . My badly plugged 3/4" Gal main had evidently provided
just the amount of resistance so that the higher pressure didn't seem
to be noticed at the working end. *The new copper main changed all
that. *Now I can shower with a sprinkler zone operating and not get
any change in my shower water using the 45 psi setting. *Copper was
.50 cents a pound when I bought my $60 regulator...hate to see what
they cost now. *An experienced pipefitter told me to get a regulator
a size bigger than my main...Before this modification I could not
keep washers in the valves in my bathroom or kitchen. *No problem
now. *I did 'open' the inlet holes on my toilet tank valve as it took
quite a time longer to fill at the lowered pressure.

"Tuberculated water main" = Rust or scale build-up in the pipe

we also have about 110 psi. *Makes for a nice garden hose pressure if
you keep your hose outlets before the regulator. G.

PS: *don't use the yellow hoses from Walmart. *LMAO!!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I also have my hose spigots before the regulator.

The front one was before the regulator when we moved in, but the back
one was after.

My first use of Pex and Sharkbites was to tap into the pipe for the
front spigot and run a line across the basement ceiling to the back
spigot to get street pressure to that one.

Sharkbites in the joist bays and Pex over the ductwork made it a real
easy upgrade.

SWMBO was extremely grateful since it cut her garden watering time in
half.

On 2/13/2012 10:30 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Feb 13, 10:25 am, wrote:
On 2/12/2012 10:37 PM, Guv Bob wrote:

Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water hammer now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had any plumbing work done. I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. But before I jump into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the air could have come from? I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the valve - do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink& tub all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only the toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

Bob

I have one line to a toilet that will hammer violently if the wall
shutoff valve isn't fully open. Fully open there is no problem at all.

Probably won't help you but but its easy enough to check.

John

see if the loose pipes can be located and secured with copper straps


Not worth the bother of tearing up a finished basement wall and dry
walled ceilings to fully secure the line. As I said, a fully open valve
prevents the hammering.

I just posted it because it could be an easy fix if the valve were shut
off to the ops toilet recently and not fully turned back on.

John

"micky" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:37:43 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

Howdy folks! When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water
hammer now. Never had that happen before until recently and have not had
any plumbing work done.

Have you replaced your washing machine hoses with woven metal covered
hoses? That will cause it. The totally rubber hoses can prevent
water hammer. (Athough maybe the hammer I had mostly occurred when
the washing machine was running. It's been 18 years and I forgot
this. But the remedy may be the same. )

But unless you turn the water off every time you finish using the
wshing machine, you should replace the hoses. Otherwise they'll burst
after about 10 years.

I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks
in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. But before I jump
into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the
great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the
air could have come from?

I think air is the remedy, not the cause. Air is compressable, so
air in the system makes the water slow down gradually.

I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and
bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the
valve - do you know any way to tell? Sounds like there are different
things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest
ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... the toilet, sink & tub
all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only
the toilet hammers. Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet
downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. Any help or good guess much appreciated.

You can get water hammer arrestors at the hardware store. The screw
on between the washing machine and the hoses, or the hoses and the
valves. They have air chambers about 4 inches long, and they work.

When you installl these, put in the new hoses with stainless steel
woven covers. You may only need an arrestor on the cold water,
since that's the water your toilet uses. I think for several years,
I only had one. Maybe I still only have one.

Of course the washing machine has a valve that closes the hot water.
I use the washing machine a lot less than I flush the toilet, and I
don't remember if there is or was hammer from the hot water.

There may be something similar for the bathroom, but the washing
machine ones may work for the bathrooms too. .

Eventually the rubber bladder between the air and the water will
break, and then after a while, the air will disolve in the water and
there will be no air. Then you will need another one. Mine have
been working fine for about 18 years.

Bob

The water hammer arrestors are a good fix for the problem. I've had one on
the cold water line near the main house valve for 9 years now with no
problems and no water hammer. But, having said that and reading your
original post again, the likely culprit is the toilet water valve. Since
you didn't change any plumbing when the hammer started, it has to come from
wear and tear or some kind of system change such as a change in line
pressure. I'll vote for a worn toilet water valve that sets up an
oscillation in the tank.

Tomsic

On Feb 13, 3:34*pm, "Tomsic" wrote:
"micky" wrote in message

...





On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:37:43 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

Howdy folks! * When the toilet shuts off, I hear a fairly loud water
hammer now. *Never had that happen before until recently and have not had
any plumbing work done.

Have you replaced your washing machine hoses with woven metal covered
hoses? * *That will cause it. *The totally rubber hoses can prevent
water hammer. * (Athough maybe the hammer I had mostly occurred when
the washing machine was running. *It's been 18 years and I forgot
this. *But the remedy may be the same. )

But unless you turn the water off every time you finish using the
wshing machine, you should replace the hoses. Otherwise they'll burst
after about 10 years.

I did a little net research and see that this could cause damage or leaks
in the piping, so I'll have to get on this one quick. *But before I jump
into it head first, I've gotten a lot of good advice here and thought the
great mind might have some tips.

A couple of questions -- since it just started, I'm wondering where the
air could have come from?

I think air is the remedy, not the cause. * Air is compressable, so
air in the system makes the water slow down gradually.

I've tried running the water in all the faucets high and low to try and
bleed it but don't see much difference.

I've read that it could be on the downstream or upstream side of the
valve - do you know any way to tell? *Sounds like there are different
things to try and I'd just as soon start with the most likely and easiest
ones first.

Some more info (pull up a chair, boys, LOL!!)... *the toilet, sink & tub
all tee into the same line within a couple of feet of each other, but only
the toilet hammers. * Also, in the other end of the house - about 30 feet
downstream of the toilet, the kitchen sink faucet hammers.

Welp, that's my story. *Any help or good guess much appreciated.

You can get water hammer arrestors at the hardware store. *The screw
on between the washing machine and the hoses, or the hoses and the
valves. * They have air chambers about 4 inches long, and they work.

When you installl these, put in the new hoses with stainless steel
woven covers. * *You may only need an arrestor on the cold water,
since that's the water your toilet uses. * I think for several years,
I only had one. *Maybe I still only have one.

Of course the washing machine has a valve that closes the hot water.
I use the washing machine a lot less than I flush the toilet, and I
don't remember if there is or was hammer from the hot water.

There may be something similar for the bathroom, but the washing
machine ones may work for the bathrooms too. .

Eventually the rubber bladder between the air and the water will
break, and then after a while, the air will disolve in the water and
there will be no air. *Then you will need another one. * Mine have
been working fine for about 18 years.

Bob

The water hammer arrestors are a good fix for the problem. *I've had one on
the cold water line near the main house valve for 9 years now with no
problems and no water hammer. *But, having said that and reading your
original post again, the likely culprit is the toilet water valve. *Since
you didn't change any plumbing when the hammer started, it has to come from
wear and tear or some kind of system change such as a change in line
pressure. *I'll vote for a worn toilet water valve that sets up an
oscillation in the tank.

Tomsic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"it has to come from wear and tear or some kind of system change
such as a change in line pressure."

....or the leaching out of the air in any air gaps that might exist.

Oft times, simply draining the system and then refilling it will put
the air back into the air gaps and the problem will go away for many
years.

Been there, done that.

On Feb 13, 6:43*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/12/2012 11:43 PM, DD_BobK wrote:









On Feb 12, 9:04 pm, *wrote:
Before I caught my hot water tank venting during the water hammer I had
inserted two 4 foot 1/2" copper capped tubes vertically inside the wall
above my washer water shut off valve, trying to make a resevour to capture
air to dampen the hammer. *That didn't work. *Later in my basement I silver
soldered some refrig valves (Schraeder) into the hot and cold lines under my
laundry room. *I have an air compressor in my basement and a 'main' with
many quick connects. *One was handy to this area and I injected air into the
laundry water feed lines, but didn't get much result. *This was a waste of
time and money. *The regulator was the trick.

A proper water hammer arrestor is the solution.
Either piston or bellows style.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...ls.asp?pid=741
http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...s.asp?pid=7137

cheers
Bob

foot long air chambers have worked for decades and still do.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Not in my experience.....

I have a house built in 1930 that originally had galvanized steel
plumbing,
complete with 12" to 18" air chambers which never worked very well.

The 85 psi water pressure delivered to the house via a 1" copper line
might have been the problem.

Since the house was re-piped with PEX and had the following added...
double check valve
pressure reducer
water hammer arrestors on toilets, washing machine & misc other
locations

no more water hammer.

cheers
Bob

On 2/13/2012 11:03 PM, DD_BobK wrote:
On Feb 13, 6:43 am, Steve wrote:
On 2/12/2012 11:43 PM, DD_BobK wrote:









On Feb 12, 9:04 pm, wrote:
Before I caught my hot water tank venting during the water hammer I had
inserted two 4 foot 1/2" copper capped tubes vertically inside the wall
above my washer water shut off valve, trying to make a resevour to capture
air to dampen the hammer. That didn't work. Later in my basement I silver
soldered some refrig valves (Schraeder) into the hot and cold lines under my
laundry room. I have an air compressor in my basement and a 'main' with
many quick connects. One was handy to this area and I injected air into the
laundry water feed lines, but didn't get much result. This was a waste of
time and money. The regulator was the trick.

A proper water hammer arrestor is the solution.
Either piston or bellows style.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...ls.asp?pid=741
http://www.watts.com/pages/_products...s.asp?pid=7137

cheers
Bob

foot long air chambers have worked for decades and still do.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Not in my experience.....

I have a house built in 1930 that originally had galvanized steel
plumbing,
complete with 12" to 18" air chambers which never worked very well.

The 85 psi water pressure delivered to the house via a 1" copper line
might have been the problem.

Since the house was re-piped with PEX and had the following added...
double check valve
pressure reducer
water hammer arrestors on toilets, washing machine& misc other
locations

no more water hammer.

cheers
Bob

lowering the pressure on the old system would have worked wonders also.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Thanks for all the good help with this. In this case, the problem was not with the toilet valves, etc. Any of these or the hand-operated faucet valves in the house caused the water hammer when turned off quickly. Cold water only - no hammer with hot water.

On Nov 24, 12:20*am, "Guv Bob"
wrote:
Thanks for all the good help with this. *In this case, the problem was not with the toilet valves, etc. *Any of these or the hand-operated faucet valves in the house caused the water hammer when turned off quickly. *Cold water only - no hammer with hot water.

Six months later and you just woke up, yet don't tell us how or
if it got resolved?

wrote in message ...
On Nov 24, 12:20 am, "Guv Bob"
wrote:
Thanks for all the good help with this. In this case, the problem was not with the toilet valves, etc. Any of these or the hand-operated faucet valves in the house caused the water hammer when turned off quickly. Cold water only - no hammer with hot water.

Six months later and you just woke up, yet don't tell us how or if it got resolved?

LOL!! Sorry about that. I know exactly what you mean following a thread and it gets left hanging.

In this case, I got side tracked having to swap out an old bathroom sink and some shower valves. I learned long ago that when the lovely wife says something, it's least painful just to jump up and do it no matter what. After that, the hammering from the toilet valves stopped. Sink faucets only hammer if I turn off the cold water super quickly - no hammering otherwise. Clothes washer or dishwater never has caused hammering. First sign of hammering again and I'll dig into it. Otherwise, I have other cans of worms to open. Sleeping dogs lie, etc...