"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Gordon Shumway wrote:

Do you really expect us to believe that farm laborers, doing
poorly-paid
jobs that Americans WILL NOT DO, are making enough money to pay taxes?

Why not? I pay taxes on what I earn, so should everyone else.

and those illegal aliens do, unless their employer is paying them under
that
table...in which case he should be deported

Good point. But I don't think Gordon gets it, living way out there in space
with Alf on Planet Melmac. It turns out that the "E-verify" system has
driving much of the farm labor "underground." That means the laborers
probably don't even make minimum wage or have any other legal protections
afforded to most other US workers. Yet they still come here to work. It's
abundantly clear from what's happened in California and elsewhere that rich
growers *depend* on low-paid immigrant labor and fight tooth and claw to
preserve their access to it whenever they can. It's typical that
hatred-driven people want to throw out all the laborers that put food on
their table without a single thought as to who will do that work when they
are gone.

Poverty defines the farmworkers' lives. Overall, three-fifths of all
farmworkers are poor, with 75 percent earning less than $10,000 annually.
The average hourly wage of farmworkers was $5.94 in 1998, with purchasing
power declining steadily each year since 1989. What's most startling is that
each income statistic is halved when applied to undocumented workers. --
Charles D. Thompson, Jr. and Melinda F. Wiggins, eds., The Human Cost of
Food: Farmworkers' Lives, Labor, and Advocacy (Austin: University of Texas
Press, 2002)

And Gordon expects people paid poverty wages that put food on his table to
have a tax liability and pay "their fair share." He doesn't realize he's
"eating" their fair share. Most earn less than $10,000 per year and
undocumented workers half that. I guess you actually have to know facts to
make informed decisions.

The real irony is that the last vestiges of the American work ethos are
embedded in these workers who come here to work and make a better life for
their families. Hundreds die each year trying to get here, just so they can
do the worst jobs we have for some of the lowest wages paid in the country.

--
Bobby G.

On Feb 23, 12:33*pm, "Robert Green"
wrote:
"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote in ...

In article ,
*Gordon Shumway wrote:

Do you really expect us to believe that farm laborers, doing
poorly-paid
jobs that Americans WILL NOT DO, are making enough money to pay taxes?

Why not? I pay taxes on what I earn, so should everyone else.

and those illegal aliens do, unless their employer is paying them under
that
table...in which case he should be deported

Good point. *But I don't think Gordon gets it, living way out there in space
with Alf on Planet Melmac. *It turns out that the "E-verify" system has
driving much of the farm labor "underground." *That means the laborers
probably don't even make minimum wage or have any other legal protections
afforded to most other US workers. *Yet they still come here to work. *It's
abundantly clear from what's happened in California and elsewhere that rich
growers *depend* on low-paid immigrant labor and fight tooth and claw to
preserve their access to it whenever they can. *It's typical that
hatred-driven people want to throw out all the laborers that put food on
their table without a single thought as to who will do that work when they
are gone.

As I recall Bush 43 proposed a system where guest worker passes
good for 3 years would be available so that those that are coming
here illegally now instead be documented and work legally.
As usual, it was all the liberals who were dead set against it,
so it never happened.

I remember vacationing in Florida at the time. I ran into two
guys that owned a restaurant in Iowa. They were complaining
about how hard it was to find English speaking help for
the kitchen and how they were using illegal Mexicans. I asked
then what they thought of Bush's guest worker program.
Their response - "That's just EXPLOITATION!". That's right
these guys, bleeding heart liberals who were using the
illegal Mexicans were calling the Bush proposal exploitation.

You have any relatives that own restaturants in Iowa, Bob?

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:44:09 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

Maybe paying $2 each for apples picked by American workers with full legal
status will convince those clamoring for every undocumented worker to be
deported. That's exactly what will happen if growers have to hire Americans
workers who would enjoy the full protection of US labor laws.

In that ideal scenario my tax liability would be thousands of dollars
less per year so that $2 apple would be a bargain. Then our
imposter-in-chief could achieve what he has been striving for... for
everyone to pay their fair share!

"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:17:28 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:
"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:57:26 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

They are called "undocumented workers" to
distinguish them from the "undesirable aliens" who not only don't
WORK,
but
commit crimes, run drugs and cheat on welfare.

Cheating on ones income tax by not declaring any income is no
different than cheating on welfare.

Do you really expect us to believe that farm laborers, doing poorly-paid
jobs that Americans WILL NOT DO, are making enough money to pay taxes?

Why not? I pay taxes on what I earn, so should everyone else.

You're not paying attention. Or you hatred has blinded you. Either way you
don't seem to understand that immigrant farm labor is the most poorly paid
work in the country. They would NOT have to file. They don't pass the
income threshold. Simple as pie.

Ask Kurt, he tells us often that even if they had documents, at their
income
level they should be getting money BACK from the Federal government. But
they don't. They pay into Social Security, workmen's comp and all sorts
of
other programs that they'll never be able to utilize. It's estimated
that
undocumented immigrants pay about $7 billion per year in Social Security
taxes that they will never be able to reclaim. So your point is
pointless.
Even if they *had* to file, they'd get money back, not owe taxes.

With a flat tax they wouldn't get money back. As the idiot-in-chief
keeps preaching they too would "pay their fair share."

WTF? Who ever said anything about a flat tax in this thread, or are you
just chomping at the bit to call the President an "idiot" every chance you
get? Looks like you'll have another four years of opportunity because
posters like you alienate the independents that actually elect presidents.
Keep spitting insults -- maybe you'll push Obama right over the top. You
hardliners never seem to get it. Independents do. You lost the last
election for President and you'll probably lose the next one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-declines.html

By your own differentiation then
you have absolutely no problem with "undocumented workers" not paying
their "fair share" and as a result causing your tax burden to
increase.

Fair share? You're serious, aren't you?

No **** Sherlock!

You just don't understand, do you? They don't make enough money to have to
file or pay taxes. Yet they have taxes taken out of their paychecks that
unlike poor citizens that they're never get refunds for. That seems pretty
simple. You just seem hung up on hating immigrants. That's a typical
simplistic solution. Find a group that's politically weak and blame them for
ALL your problems. Where have we seen that before?

That's really kind of sad. I have no problem with the "alleged" problem
you're
describing because it's not a real problem, just one *you've*
manufactured for
political purposes. Immigrants barely make enough money to survive, let
alone
pay taxes. Jeez. Use common sense.

If the poor, poor undocumented workers barely make enough to survive
the can go back where they came from. But apparently with no tax
liability they are extremely happy to stay here. I think you need a
little common sense.

They come here because there are NO opportunities for them where they came
from and the rule of law is weak, allowing drug gangs to roam freely. And
they work. Hard. Doing jobs that DON'T GET DONE without them. "Go back
home where they came from?" Seems to me I've heard that BS line in yet
another context of hatred.

I pity your inability to discriminate between the two types of "illegal"
immigrants - those with a work ethic who come here to work and better
their
lot and those who come here to prey on our citizens and our welfare
system.

There is only one type of illegal immigrant -- an illegal one.

Now it's time for you to put your thinking cap on and wonder why this
problem hasn't been fixed. It's because neither side WANTS it fixed. The
Republican and Democratic growers want a steady supply of cheap labor and
the Republican and Democratic consumers want cheap food. So you're barking
at the moon. Enjoy. The moon doesn't care and neither do I. BTW, the
Federal goverment distinguishes between the criminal and non-criminal
immigrant and they're in charge of immigration, not you. Hmmm - should I
listen to a hate-spewing, insulting internet poster or experts who have
studied the problem. That's a tough one. (-"

The farmworker does a job for YOU that your fellow Americans won't. You
probably eat the fruits of their underpaid labor every day. So you kick
them in the teeth after they've fed you? How's that for gratitude?
It's
the Republican way. No wonder why Obama's 9 points ahead in the polls.

It's interesting how our idiot-in-chief's plan to redistribute the
wealth affects so many of those that have no clue.

Ah, you know I just love when folks like you prove that Republicans
resort
to insults whenever they encounter information that's not in line with
Rush's "talking points."

No insult -- he IS an idiot.

Yeah, sure. And idiot that managed to beat the Republicans in the last
election. You only *wish* you had an "idiot" smart enough to win an
election. Instead your party pandered to the likes of Palin, someone who
couldn't even finish out her term as governor because she was so afraid of
the shady dealing the press might uncover. I understand your misery.

rest of crap snipped

Go have yourself an apple and wonder who picked it for you, Gordon. It was
probably a hard-working "illegal" alien. So much for your devotion to your
cause. You'll eat the fruit of their labor and then kick them in the teeth
for providing food for you and yours. And people wonder what's wrong with
America.

--
Bobby G.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:22:14 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

snipped the rest of his rant

You just seem hung up on hating immigrants.

The one, and the most important word, you forgot in the above sentence
was "illegal." What part of "illegal" don't you understand?