On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 18:19:53 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Feb 6, 3:22Â*pm, teabird wrote:
Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. Â*I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. Â*It took
a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the joint
pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and brown. Â*I'm
using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with emery
cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. Â*I've prepared the
joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the tubes
so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. Â*I also notice
that even though the solder is eventually melting it is not drawing in
the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow color to it.

Is the yellow color significant and does it indicate a problem with my
technique? Â*Can there be a noticable difference between yesterday and
today as relates to how quickly the joint heats up, as today I have 2x
the amount of tube to heat?

TIA,

Teabird

You don't mention using any flux, nor the tyhpe of solder you are
using.
He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:52:20 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.
I do too - and it gets used for anything that is not potable water -
(and some that is)

On 2/7/2012 8:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

it's not hard to find

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/7/2012 9:12 PM, cjt wrote:
On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

all we used for decades. no need to change just because some gubmint
pinhead pencil pusher decided we should. No lead free **** in my tool kit.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, cjt wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

Lead poisoning (also known as plumbism, colica Pictonum, saturnism,
Devon colic, or painter's colic) is a medical condition caused by
increased levels of the heavy metal lead in the body. Lead interferes
with a variety of body processes and is toxic to many organs and tissues
including the heart, bones, intestines, kidneys, and reproductive and
nervous systems. It interferes with the development of the nervous
system and is therefore particularly toxic to children, causing
potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders. Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in severe
cases seizures, coma, and death.

Years ago, the boss got a roll of lead free Sterling Taramet, or Tagamet.
Not sure which. Seemed to work reasonably well.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 2/7/2012 8:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

it's not hard to find

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/8/2012 4:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.


hell back in the day, they used to ADD lead to drinks to enhance the
flavor. More gubmint control.... sigh....

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/8/2012 5:05 AM, Barney Fife wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

Lead poisoning (also known as plumbism, colica Pictonum, saturnism,
Devon colic, or painter's colic) is a medical condition caused by
increased levels of the heavy metal lead in the body. Lead interferes
with a variety of body processes and is toxic to many organs and tissues
including the heart, bones, intestines, kidneys, and reproductive and
nervous systems. It interferes with the development of the nervous
system and is therefore particularly toxic to children, causing
potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders. Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in severe
cases seizures, coma, and death.

very informative there mr. wiki. Probably not accurate though, and what
the hell's that got to do with plumbing? We're soldering with the ****,
not eating it.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/8/2012 4:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_O

TDD

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_

thats what the local water companies say, and they have lead
lines......

On 2/8/2012 8:01 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/8/2012 4:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_O

TDD

obviously tens of thousands of people grew up in lead soldered copper
plumbed houses or STILL live in them. It obviously is not a problem.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Feb 7, 9:52*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:
He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I have a friend with a common hobby interest that occasional requires
us to solder the ends of 1/16" aircraft cable to prevent it from
unraveling after we cut it.

He always pulls out his tin of flux that dates back to the 1940's. He
found it in his grandfather's garage.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, cjt wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.
If it is hard water there REALLY is no problem, as the lead will not
leach. In soft water or highly alkalyn water it is definitely not a
GOOD idea - and with reverse osmosis water definitely a BAD idea.

On 2/8/2012 8:43 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/8/2012 5:05 AM, Barney Fife wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[snip]

Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in severe
cases seizures, coma, and death.

very informative there mr. wiki. Probably not accurate though, and what
the hell's that got to do with plumbing? We're soldering with the ****,
not eating it.


One of the symptoms of lead poising is irritability...and I can't help
but notice that your seem easily irritated. You might wanna have that
checked out.

On 02/07/2012 10:07 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/7/2012 9:12 PM, cjt wrote:
On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

all we used for decades. no need to change just because some gubmint
pinhead pencil pusher decided we should. No lead free **** in my tool kit.

That might explain some things...

On 02/08/2012 10:44 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/8/2012 8:01 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/8/2012 4:48 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_O

TDD

obviously tens of thousands of people grew up in lead soldered copper
plumbed houses or STILL live in them. It obviously is not a problem.

There's nothing "obvious" about it. Imagine how much better things
could have been.

Gramma says that Gramps was looking for his flux can, the other day. Better
put it back.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

I have a friend with a common hobby interest that occasional requires
us to solder the ends of 1/16" aircraft cable to prevent it from
unraveling after we cut it.

He always pulls out his tin of flux that dates back to the 1940's. He
found it in his grandfather's garage.

In article ,
wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, cjt wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.
If it is hard water there REALLY is no problem, as the lead will not
leach. In soft water or highly alkalyn water it is definitely not a
GOOD idea - and with reverse osmosis water definitely a BAD idea.

About 10 or 15 years ago many water municipal water systems started switching
from chlorine to a compound called chloramin. There were known problems
with chlorine, including health, environnemtal, and equipment related
issues, plus the chloramin compounds are more stable in the water supply
than chlorine. Un unknown til recently consequence, however, is that
chloramin treated water is more prone to leaching lead out of pipes
and soldered pipe joints. This has been confirmed by several studies. You
can easily find some simply by googling "chloramin and lead." Some
of these studies confirm a higher lead level in children's blood
after switching to chloramin, and some claim to show that in newer homes,
built after lead and lead solder was banned from use on potable water
supplies, the lead levels stayed low even with the switch to chloramin.

I am not qualified to comment on whether these higher lead blood levels
are in fact a serious health problem, or still below the safe limit.
However, my own city switched to chloramin several years ago, and I would
not use lead solder myself on water supplies. It really is not that hard
to use many of the lead-free products that are available today, unlike some
of the early-to-market lead-free solders from several years ago.


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

cjt wrote in :

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

Yea, it killed Kenny ya know.

Barney Fife wrote in
:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

Lead poisoning (also known as plumbism, colica Pictonum, saturnism,
Devon colic, or painter's colic) is a medical condition caused by
increased levels of the heavy metal lead in the body. Lead interferes
with a variety of body processes and is toxic to many organs and tissues
including the heart, bones, intestines, kidneys, and reproductive and
nervous systems. It interferes with the development of the nervous
system and is therefore particularly toxic to children, causing
potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders. Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in severe
cases seizures, coma, and death.

You chose a very good posting handle.

Barney Fife wrote in
:

On 2/8/2012 8:43 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/8/2012 5:05 AM, Barney Fife wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[snip]

Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in
severe cases seizures, coma, and death.

very informative there mr. wiki. Probably not accurate though, and
what the hell's that got to do with plumbing? We're soldering with
the ****, not eating it.


One of the symptoms of lead poising is irritability...and I can't help
but notice that your seem easily irritated. You might wanna have that
checked out.


Look you granola head asshole. Someone needs to kill you and **** your dead
eye socket.

Peace be with you...

"Barney Fife" wrote in message
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders. Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in severe
cases seizures, coma, and death.

This seems to be the standard warning on many of the drugs advertised on the
TV.
The ones that are perscribed by the doctors.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
m:


"Barney Fife" wrote in message
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders. Symptoms
include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in
severe cases seizures, coma, and death.

This seems to be the standard warning on many of the drugs advertised
on the TV.
The ones that are perscribed by the doctors.




Don't forget suicide and hallucinations. You'll get a good nights sleep
though...gotta be worth it.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 23:50:30 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:12:21 -0600, cjt wrote:

On 02/07/2012 08:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:24:53 -0500, wrote:



He did say he used flux and lead-free solder.

In my experience, that stuff is a CURSE.

Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.
If it is hard water there REALLY is no problem, as the lead will not
leach. In soft water or highly alkalyn water it is definitely not a
GOOD idea - and with reverse osmosis water definitely a BAD idea.

About 10 or 15 years ago many water municipal water systems started switching
from chlorine to a compound called chloramin. There were known problems
with chlorine, including health, environnemtal, and equipment related
issues, plus the chloramin compounds are more stable in the water supply
than chlorine. Un unknown til recently consequence, however, is that
chloramin treated water is more prone to leaching lead out of pipes
and soldered pipe joints. This has been confirmed by several studies. You
can easily find some simply by googling "chloramin and lead." Some
of these studies confirm a higher lead level in children's blood
after switching to chloramin, and some claim to show that in newer homes,
built after lead and lead solder was banned from use on potable water
supplies, the lead levels stayed low even with the switch to chloramin.

I am not qualified to comment on whether these higher lead blood levels
are in fact a serious health problem, or still below the safe limit.
However, my own city switched to chloramin several years ago, and I would
not use lead solder myself on water supplies. It really is not that hard
to use many of the lead-free products that are available today, unlike some
of the early-to-market lead-free solders from several years ago.


Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia and has been used for
over 90 years as a secondary disinfectant in water systems. It has a
longer "half-life" in the system - remaining active much longer than
chlorine alone. Free chlorine is more agressive to the lead than
Chloramine, but chloramine stays in the system longer, so there is a
potential for more lead to end up in the water.

All depends on a lot of conditions.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:05:20 -0500, Barney Fife
wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

Lead poisoning (also known as plumbism, colica Pictonum, saturnism,
Devon colic, or painter's colic) is a medical condition caused by
increased levels of the heavy metal lead in the body. Lead interferes
with a variety of body processes and is toxic to many organs and tissues
including the heart, bones, intestines, kidneys, and reproductive and
nervous systems. It interferes with the development of the nervous
system and is therefore particularly toxic to children, causing
potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders. Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in severe
cases seizures, coma, and death.

Many decades ago, in the 1950's & 60s my father had lead poisoning. He
worked for the National Lead Company long before OSHA regulations were
thought of.

A couple of solder joints is not going to do all of that. There is
very little actual exposure in a properly made joint.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:16:46 -0600, cjt wrote:




Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_O

TDD

obviously tens of thousands of people grew up in lead soldered copper
plumbed houses or STILL live in them. It obviously is not a problem.

There's nothing "obvious" about it. Imagine how much better things
could have been.

Better that what? I grew up in Philadelphia where tens of thousands
of houses had lead pipes and/or lead soldered copper. I never saw a
problem from it.

On 02/08/2012 07:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:16:46 -0600, wrote:




Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_O

TDD

obviously tens of thousands of people grew up in lead soldered copper
plumbed houses or STILL live in them. It obviously is not a problem.

There's nothing "obvious" about it. Imagine how much better things
could have been.

Better that what? I grew up in Philadelphia where tens of thousands
of houses had lead pipes and/or lead soldered copper. I never saw a
problem from it.

Better brain function, for instance.

On 2/8/2012 7:02 PM, Red Green wrote:
Barney wrote in
:

On 2/8/2012 8:43 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/8/2012 5:05 AM, Barney Fife wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[snip]

Symptoms include
abdominal pain, confusion, headache, anemia, irritability, and in
severe cases seizures, coma, and death.

very informative there mr. wiki. Probably not accurate though, and
what the hell's that got to do with plumbing? We're soldering with
the ****, not eating it.


One of the symptoms of lead poising is irritability...and I can't help
but notice that your seem easily irritated. You might wanna have that
checked out.


Look you granola head asshole. Someone needs to kill you and **** your dead
eye socket.

Peace be with you...

ROFLMAO

wrote in
:

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia

It is nothing of the sort.

Chloramines are ammonia derivatives, in which one or more hydrogen atoms have been replaced by
chlorine atoms.

Stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:54:24 -0600, cjt wrote:

On 02/08/2012 07:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:16:46 -0600, wrote:




Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_O

TDD

obviously tens of thousands of people grew up in lead soldered copper
plumbed houses or STILL live in them. It obviously is not a problem.

There's nothing "obvious" about it. Imagine how much better things
could have been.

Better that what? I grew up in Philadelphia where tens of thousands
of houses had lead pipes and/or lead soldered copper. I never saw a
problem from it.

Better brain function, for instance.

I'd believe you if it was true. Never saw anyone that was affected.
I'm know that people using lead glazed ceramics holding acidic juices
have been affected. Never saw any damage from water pipes though.

Then there is all that asbestos . . . . .

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:50:09 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia

It is nothing of the sort.

Chloramines are ammonia derivatives, in which one or more hydrogen atoms have been replaced by
chlorine atoms.

Stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.
I should have said "basically".

noun
any of several compounds containing chlorine and nitrogen; used as an
antiseptic in wounds [syn: chloramine]

And I AM correct.

Chloramine(s)
Definition:
A class of amines, chloramines are produced when ammonia and chlorine
(as hypochlorous acid) react with each other.

Chloramine is increasingly used in water treatment plants rather than
chlorine, as chloramine is much more stable and will not dissipate
from water, ensuring disinfection until it reaches the consumers. In
chloramine water treatment, monochloramine (NH2Cl) is formed by adding
chlorine and ammonia under controlled conditions. In chlorine water
treatment, a combination of inorganic chloramines is formed as
disinfection by-products, also referred to as combined chlorine
residuals.

Chloramines in air are strong respiratory irritants.

Source: GreenFacts



You want to argue with that, fine. Doesn't make you right and me
wrong.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:44:15 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:54:24 -0600, cjt wrote:

On 02/08/2012 07:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:16:46 -0600, wrote:




Some of us still have a stash of the good stuff.

I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

The house I lived in for 15 years had a lead main water line, as did
hundreds of other houses built at that time in the late 40s. Millions
of homes have copper and lead soldered joints. I don't know of
anyone that was affected.

I drink water every day at work. The copper was installed in the 50's
or so.

I bet that just dashed your hopes and dreams.

I do believe that minerals in the water coat the insides of pipes and
basically seal the lead in. Of course, I could be wrong but I could have
sworn I read that somewhere, sometime. o_O

TDD

obviously tens of thousands of people grew up in lead soldered copper
plumbed houses or STILL live in them. It obviously is not a problem.

There's nothing "obvious" about it. Imagine how much better things
could have been.

Better that what? I grew up in Philadelphia where tens of thousands
of houses had lead pipes and/or lead soldered copper. I never saw a
problem from it.

Better brain function, for instance.

I'd believe you if it was true. Never saw anyone that was affected.
I'm know that people using lead glazed ceramics holding acidic juices
have been affected. Never saw any damage from water pipes though.

Then there is all that asbestos . . . . .
A tempest in a lead glazed teapot?
Much ado about nothing?

I agree. In a properly soldered water system, consisting of about 12
fittings with 2 solder joints each, there is MABEE 1 square inch of
solder exposed to water. That solder is 37 - 40% lead.

In most water systems (around here anyway, where the water is HARD
but not alkaline, ) the solder is coated with a thin mineral deposit
within months, which at least partially protects the joint from
erosion or leaching.

And Asbestos? Yes - it is definitely a hazard when air-born - but
when encapsulated in vinyl, as in TILE????

I worked with asbestos on pretty well a daily basis for over 20
years, as it was used in just about all brakes and clutches back when.
Lots of guys blew out the dust - I virtually ALWAYS washed it out with
a water hose - no dust.
Theshing dirt on the farm did me a lot more damage than the asbestos.

Who's Kenny ya know?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Red Green" wrote in message
...


I hope you don't use lead solder on pipes carrying potable water.

Yea, it killed Kenny ya know.

On Feb 8, 11:35*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:50:09 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

wrote:
wrote in
:

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia

It is nothing of the sort.

Chloramines are ammonia derivatives, in which one or more hydrogen atoms have been replaced by
chlorine atoms.

Stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.

* I should have said "basically".

noun
any of several compounds containing chlorine and nitrogen; used as an
antiseptic in wounds [syn: chloramine]

And I AM correct.

Yeah, you're correct. Following your chemistry, then
water is basically a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen.
Or salt water is basically a mixture of hydrochloric
acid and sodium hydroxide.





Chloramine(s)
Definition:
A class of amines, chloramines are produced when ammonia and chlorine
(as hypochlorous acid) react with each other.

Chloramine is increasingly used in water treatment plants rather than
chlorine, as chloramine is much more stable and will not dissipate
from water, ensuring disinfection until it reaches the consumers. In
chloramine water treatment, monochloramine (NH2Cl) is formed by adding
chlorine and ammonia under controlled conditions. In chlorine water
treatment, a combination of inorganic chloramines is formed as
disinfection by-products, also referred to as combined chlorine
residuals.

Chloramines in air are strong respiratory irritants.

Source: GreenFacts

*You want to argue with that, fine. Doesn't make you right and me
wrong.

He wasn't aruing with any of that. Only with you referring
to a new chemical MOLECULE as a mixture. Capiche?

wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:50:09 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia

It is nothing of the sort.

Chloramines are ammonia derivatives, in which one or more hydrogen
atoms have been replaced by chlorine atoms.

Stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.
I should have said "basically".

noun
any of several compounds containing chlorine and nitrogen; used as an
antiseptic in wounds [syn: chloramine]

And I AM correct.

No, you're not.

Chloramine(s)
Definition:
A class of amines, chloramines are produced when ammonia and chlorine
(as hypochlorous acid) react with each other.

That's not at all the same thing as "a mixture of" the two.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:59:02 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:50:09 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia

It is nothing of the sort.

Chloramines are ammonia derivatives, in which one or more hydrogen
atoms have been replaced by chlorine atoms.

Stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.
I should have said "basically".

noun
any of several compounds containing chlorine and nitrogen; used as an
antiseptic in wounds [syn: chloramine]

And I AM correct.

No, you're not.

Chloramine(s)
Definition:
A class of amines, chloramines are produced when ammonia and chlorine
(as hypochlorous acid) react with each other.

That's not at all the same thing as "a mixture of" the two.
No? If you mix them they react. You get Chloamines as a byproduct of
the reaction.

On Feb 9, 12:45*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:59:02 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller





wrote:
wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:50:09 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia

It is nothing of the sort.

Chloramines are ammonia derivatives, in which one or more hydrogen
atoms have been replaced by chlorine atoms.

Stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.
* I should have said "basically".

noun
any of several compounds containing chlorine and nitrogen; used as an
antiseptic in wounds [syn: chloramine]

And I AM correct.

No, you're not.

Chloramine(s)
Definition:
A class of amines, chloramines are produced when ammonia and chlorine
(as hypochlorous acid) react with each other.

That's not at all the same thing as "a mixture of" the two.

*No? If you mix them they react. You get Chloamines as a byproduct of
the reaction.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Sorry, but you're just going deeper into the swamp that
has trapped you. I mix 2 moles of hydrogen and one
mole of oxygen. That is a MIXTURE. It's a mixture
because it's still composed of the same molecules
that went into it. I could still seperate out either component
without breaking any molecular bonds, using chemical
reacitons, etc. It's like the oil and vinegar on your salad.
Now, if I ignite it or expose it to the right catalyst, then I
get water which is a very different substance. Capiche?