On Jan 18, 1:09*pm, "Charlie" wrote:
I can't wait to hear the voice recorder from the
bridge, ie the conversations between the captain
and the other officers. * There was a videotape
shown on TV where the same ship came in close
to shore before at night, blowing the horn, putting
on a display for people on shore and on the boat.

It's just amazing that with all the modern systems,
eg GPS chart plotter, redundancy, etc, humans
can still screw up so badly. *In the waters where
this occured, there was no reason for so many to
lose their lives.

The voice recording *won't help unless you are fluent in Italian.

However, here is a transcript in English.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/01...se-captain-and...

Charlie

That is a conversation between the Coast Guard and
the captain after the accident when the captain was in
a lifeboat. The recording I'm referring to is from the
bridge in the minutes BEFORE the accident. AFAIK,
it's supposed to exist as part of the black box system,
which was recovered. However it has not been made
public.

On Jan 18, 6:15*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 11:07 am, *wrote:
bob haller wrote the following:

that cruise line was owned by carnival.

carnival needs desperately to see their business collapse.

this will lead to safer crusing for everyone

Carnival stock fell 14% yesterday.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

That makes it a buying opportunity.

Carnival will still be around when the dust (and lawsuits) settle.

Hmmm,
After 100 million dollar expenses.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not clear to me how much exactly this will
cost carnival. They almost certainly had insurance
that will cover a large part of it. The biggest loss
is going to be the cost of the ship, which I heard
was around $450mil. It will be interesting to see
if they can salvage it.

On 1/18/2012 8:41 PM, Tegger wrote:
"Bob wrote in :

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.


Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.




You two know the regulatory situation surrounding that ship and its crew?
You two know exactly why the ship grounded? No, you do not. You know zero.
But you spout non-sequiturs anyway.

So why do cruise lines seek out the laxest countries and register their
ships there?


Why not wait until the investigation is finished before touting your
personal biases?

On 1/18/2012 8:10 PM, Bob F wrote:
George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.


Within reason. Thats the tough part with many governments.

Tony Hwang wrote:



DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 11:07 am, wrote:
bob haller wrote the following:

that cruise line was owned by carnival.

carnival needs desperately to see their business collapse.

this will lead to safer crusing for everyone

Carnival stock fell 14% yesterday.
-snip-
That makes it a buying opportunity.

Carnival will still be around when the dust (and lawsuits) settle.
Hmmm,
After 100 million dollar expenses.

I think BP's expenses were a little bigger. After the panic that
drove their stock to $27 in Jun of 2010, they rebounded to $50 in less
than 6 months.

Not a bet *I'd* make on Carnival-[they dropped 30% through 2011
already]-- but for those who like to really gamble- go for it.


Jim

In article , George
wrote:

On 1/18/2012 8:41 PM, Tegger wrote:
"Bob wrote in :

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.


Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.




You two know the regulatory situation surrounding that ship and its crew?
You two know exactly why the ship grounded? No, you do not. You know zero.
But you spout non-sequiturs anyway.

So why do cruise lines seek out the laxest countries and register their
ships there?


This one was flagged in Italy, hardly world renowned as a flag of
convenience. Also, even if flagged in a different country, most of the
developed countries (like the US and most of Europe) also have their own
requirements if you are sailing from or to them and carrying their
citizens.
My understanding is that the flag of convenience is more related to
things like needing to pay US minimum wages if US flagged than it is lax
safety.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:10:00 -0800, "Bob
wrote:

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Look at how fancy that ship was. I'm sure it had all the electroncs
anyone has invented.

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.

Yes it does. And there is a regulartory body for passenger lines.
But you can lead a captain to the pilot house but you can't make him
look at the gauges.

On Jan 19, 10:31*am, chaniarts wrote:
On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:10:00 -0800, "Bob
wrote:

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Look at how fancy that ship was. *I'm sure it had all the electroncs
anyone has invented.

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?



Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.

Yes it does. *And there is a regulartory body for passenger lines.
But you can lead a captain to the pilot house but you can't make him
look at the gauges.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

PRECISION GPS unit that can not be shut off should alarm anytime a
ship veers into dangerous areas.

and ships captains should be required to explain to authorties why the
system alarmed!

On Jan 19, 6:29*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , George
wrote:





On 1/18/2012 8:41 PM, Tegger wrote:
"Bob *wrote :

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.

You two know the regulatory situation surrounding that ship and its crew?
You two know exactly why the ship grounded? No, you do not. You know zero.
But you spout non-sequiturs anyway.

So why do cruise lines seek out the laxest countries and register their
ships there?

This one was flagged in Italy, hardly world renowned as a flag of
convenience. Also, even if flagged in a different country, most of the
developed countries (like the US and most of Europe) also have their own
requirements if you are sailing from or to them and carrying their
citizens.
* *My understanding is that the flag of convenience is more related to
things like needing to pay US minimum wages if US flagged than it is lax
safety.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The safety of passengr vessels is regulated by an international
board. The flag is immaterial. All passenger ships must be inspected
and meet the codes to enter international commerce.

http://www.simsl.com/Publications/Ar...SRegs0710.html

Just one of a whole bunch of hits using passenger ships safety

Harry K

On Jan 19, 4:58*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 18, 6:15*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:





DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 11:07 am, *wrote:
bob haller wrote the following:

that cruise line was owned by carnival.

carnival needs desperately to see their business collapse.

this will lead to safer crusing for everyone

Carnival stock fell 14% yesterday.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

That makes it a buying opportunity.

Carnival will still be around when the dust (and lawsuits) settle.

Hmmm,
After 100 million dollar expenses.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not clear to me how much exactly this will
cost carnival. *They almost certainly had insurance
that will cover a large part of it. *The biggest loss
is going to be the cost of the ship, which I heard
was around $450mil. * It will be interesting to see
if they can salvage it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I beliee Lloyds of London is the biggee in ship insurance. I am sure
there is going to be one massive amount of lawsuit settlements
andwhatever estate the Captain has will vanish like a moth in flames.

Harry K

In article ,
chaniarts wrote:

On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?

Yeah, but why would you want active sonar in a cruise ship. Both the
world's navies and the world's treehugger (well technically
whale-huggers) would be in your face immediately.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:32:29 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
chaniarts wrote:

On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?

I would think so, but the longest ship I've commanded is a canoe.

Yeah, but why would you want active sonar in a cruise ship. Both the
world's navies and the world's treehugger (well technically
whale-huggers) would be in your face immediately.

Why, do you think whale huggers would think there was whale-harpooning
on the Lido Deck?

Or that navies would think they'll be dropping depth charges on their
submarines? (If the goverment really wants passenger shpis to also
look for enemy submarines, they'll install the sonar secretly in a
sealed box under a seat somewhere and use telemetry to a military base
to keep track of what it shows.)

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:04:36 -0500, George wrote:

On 1/18/2012 8:41 PM, Tegger wrote:
"Bob wrote in :

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.


Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.




You two know the regulatory situation surrounding that ship and its crew?
You two know exactly why the ship grounded? No, you do not. You know zero.
But you spout non-sequiturs anyway.

So why do cruise lines seek out the laxest countries and register their
ships there?

Not true for cruise liners. Tankers cruise ships.

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 07:55:05 -0800 (PST), bob haller wrote:

On Jan 19, 10:31*am, chaniarts wrote:
On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:10:00 -0800, "Bob
wrote:

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Look at how fancy that ship was. *I'm sure it had all the electroncs
anyone has invented.

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?



Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.

Yes it does. *And there is a regulartory body for passenger lines.
But you can lead a captain to the pilot house but you can't make him
look at the gauges.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

PRECISION GPS unit that can not be shut off should alarm anytime a
ship veers into dangerous areas.

How about executing the captain if the ship varies from a path known to be
*free* of underwater obstacles. There is a difference between dangerous areas
and areas known to be free of hazards.

and ships captains should be required to explain to authorties why the
system alarmed!

No explanation needed. Fire the nitwit.

active sonar interferes with wildlife mating etc. whales talk by
making noise and can be drownd out by active sonar

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:24:19 -0800 (PST), bob haller wrote:

active sonar interferes with wildlife mating etc. whales talk by
making noise and can be drownd out by active sonar

Are you always on drugs?

In article ,
wrote:
On Jan 18, 6:15*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 18, 11:07 am, *wrote:
bob haller wrote the following:

that cruise line was owned by carnival.

carnival needs desperately to see their business collapse.

this will lead to safer crusing for everyone

Carnival stock fell 14% yesterday.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

That makes it a buying opportunity.

Carnival will still be around when the dust (and lawsuits) settle.

Hmmm,
After 100 million dollar expenses.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's not clear to me how much exactly this will
cost carnival. They almost certainly had insurance
that will cover a large part of it. The biggest loss
is going to be the cost of the ship, which I heard
was around $450mil. It will be interesting to see
if they can salvage it.

One of the things I thought I read was that whatever insurance policy
they have has a $30 million deductable.

m

George wrote in :

On 1/18/2012 8:41 PM, Tegger wrote:


You two know the regulatory situation surrounding that ship and its
crew? You two know exactly why the ship grounded? No, you do not. You
know zero. But you spout non-sequiturs anyway.

So why do cruise lines seek out the laxest countries and register
their ships there?



Because registrations come with taxes. Ship owners tend to register where
the registration taxes are lowest.



--
Tegger

In article ,
micky wrote:


Yeah, but why would you want active sonar in a cruise ship. Both the
world's navies and the world's treehugger (well technically
whale-huggers) would be in your face immediately.

Why, do you think whale huggers would think there was whale-harpooning
on the Lido Deck?
Nope. The whalehuggers had a long running environmental suit
against the Navy seeking a court order to curb midfrequency sonar, the
Navy's preferred method for detecting enemy submarines, on the grounds
the sonar disturbs and sometimes kills whales and dolphins.
It got settled after the Supremes said defense needs trump the
whales, but that wouldn't be a concern with cruise ships.


Or that navies would think they'll be dropping depth charges on their
submarines? (If the goverment really wants passenger shpis to also
look for enemy submarines, they'll install the sonar secretly in a
sealed box under a seat somewhere and use telemetry to a military base
to keep track of what it shows.)

The navy doesn't want a bunch of extra pings rattling around the 7 seas
either. It would make them much more vulnerable if an errant ping hit
them. It would probably also make it harder
It would also be an added expense to no real gain. Just stay in the
known shipping lanes and you would be good to go.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

In article ,
(Fake ID) wrote:



One of the things I thought I read was that whatever insurance policy
they have has a $30 million deductable.

It used to be $100 million but they went 7 years w/o an accident
and the vanishing deductible brought it down (g).

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

In article ,
Tegger wrote:

George wrote in :

On 1/18/2012 8:41 PM, Tegger wrote:


You two know the regulatory situation surrounding that ship and its
crew? You two know exactly why the ship grounded? No, you do not. You
know zero. But you spout non-sequiturs anyway.

So why do cruise lines seek out the laxest countries and register
their ships there?



Because registrations come with taxes. Ship owners tend to register where
the registration taxes are lowest.

The Costas are all registered in Italy, hardly what most people would
call a flag of convenience.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

" wrote in
:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:24:19 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

active sonar interferes with wildlife mating etc. whales talk by
making noise and can be drownd out by active sonar

Are you always on drugs?

Uncalled for. You don't believe a statement? Google a bit before making
an ... of yourself.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 1/20/2012 5:05 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In ,
(Fake ID) wrote:



One of the things I thought I read was that whatever insurance policy
they have has a $30 million deductable.

It used to be $100 million but they went 7 years w/o an accident
and the vanishing deductible brought it down (g).


Do they also get the Discount Double Check?

On Jan 19, 10:31*am, chaniarts wrote:
On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:10:00 -0800, "Bob
wrote:

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Look at how fancy that ship was. *I'm sure it had all the electroncs
anyone has invented.

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?



I was wondering about whether they had forward looking
sonar and were using it too. You can get a basic version
for $1000 for pleasure craft. One would think that this
ship certainly had it, but whether they were looking at
is another question.

On Jan 19, 10:55*am, bob haller wrote:
On Jan 19, 10:31*am, chaniarts wrote:





On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:10:00 -0800, "Bob
wrote:

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Look at how fancy that ship was. *I'm sure it had all the electroncs
anyone has invented.

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.

Yes it does. *And there is a regulartory body for passenger lines.
But you can lead a captain to the pilot house but you can't make him
look at the gauges.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

PRECISION GPS unit that can not be shut off should alarm anytime a
ship veers into dangerous areas.

and ships captains should be required to explain to authorties why the
system alarmed!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a good idea until you think about
how practical it is. Like the crew being distracted
and running into the dock or grounding in a
channel because the alarm is constantly going
off and driving them nuts as they enter shallow water
coming into port, etc.

And then you have the many areas where even
the latest charts don't show current shoaling, etc.

Sounds like every day on Usenet?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
active sonar interferes with wildlife mating etc. whales talk by
making noise and can be drownd out by active sonar

On Jan 20, 5:53*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 19, 10:55*am, bob haller wrote:





On Jan 19, 10:31*am, chaniarts wrote:

On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:10:00 -0800, "Bob
wrote:

George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Look at how fancy that ship was. *I'm sure it had all the electroncs
anyone has invented.

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.

Yes it does. *And there is a regulartory body for passenger lines..
But you can lead a captain to the pilot house but you can't make him
look at the gauges.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

PRECISION GPS unit that can not be shut off should alarm anytime a
ship veers into dangerous areas.

and ships captains should be required to explain to authorties why the
system alarmed!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a good idea until you think about
how practical it is. *Like the crew being distracted
and running into the dock or grounding in a
channel because the alarm is constantly going
off and driving them nuts as they enter shallow water
coming into port, etc.

And then you have the many areas where even
the latest charts don't show current shoaling, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And if the ship's captain is going to ignore known hazards, what good
would more warning be? He sailed the ship into KNOWN shoals.

Harry K

On Jan 20, 4:36*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/20/2012 5:05 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In ,
* (Fake ID) wrote:

One of the things I thought I read was that whatever insurance policy
they have has a $30 million deductable.

* * * It used to be $100 million but they went 7 years w/o an accident
and the vanishing deductible brought it down (g).

Do they also get the Discount Double Check?

I wonder wha tthe "snap shot" will show

Harry K

Kurt Ullman wrote in
m:



The Costas are all registered in Italy, hardly what most people would
call a flag of convenience.




Very true.

I really do wish some people would wait for data before spouting their
prejudices.


--
Tegger

On 20 Jan 2012 12:29:50 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:24:19 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

active sonar interferes with wildlife mating etc. whales talk by
making noise and can be drownd out by active sonar

Are you always on drugs?

Uncalled for.

Wrong. He *must* be on drugs.

You don't believe a statement? Google a bit before making
an ... of yourself.

Irrelevant. WTF did it have to do with the post he was replying to or
anything else, for that matter.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:05:38 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
(Fake ID) wrote:



One of the things I thought I read was that whatever insurance policy
they have has a $30 million deductable.

It used to be $100 million but they went 7 years w/o an accident
and the vanishing deductible brought it down (g).

You're bad! ;-)

On 1/18/2012 8:10 PM, Bob F wrote:
George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.


And the regulations should require commercial cruise ships to have
forward looking sonar and be staffed with appropriately trained crew
members to operate it. Given the overall cost of the ship, the sonar is
a cheap addition.

This accident would have been highly unlikely on a submarine - the rocks
would have been detected in sufficient time to avoid collision.

On 1/19/2012 12:32 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?

Yeah, but why would you want active sonar in a cruise ship. Both the
world's navies and the world's treehugger (well technically
whale-huggers) would be in your face immediately.

You want active sonar to detect certain objects that may be undetected
visually or by radar - a shallow submerged object with neutral buoyancy,
a submarine in quiet mode at all stop, a whale, or in some locations,
rocks and/or reefs that for some reason never made it to the charts.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:54:25 -0500, Peter wrote:

On 1/18/2012 8:10 PM, Bob F wrote:
George wrote:
Its the walmart syndrome. Everyone wants cheap so these cruise lines
all operate under foreign flags which have less stringent
requirements for little things like crew competency and safety.

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.


And the regulations should require commercial cruise ships to have
forward looking sonar and be staffed with appropriately trained crew
members to operate it. Given the overall cost of the ship, the sonar is
a cheap addition.

Wouldn't it make a *lot* more sense to ban off-road hot-rodding?

This accident would have been highly unlikely on a submarine - the rocks
would have been detected in sufficient time to avoid collision.

Yeah, submarines have never run aground. rolls eyes

Peter wrote in :


And the regulations should require commercial cruise ships to have
forward looking sonar and be staffed with appropriately trained crew
members to operate it. Given the overall cost of the ship, the sonar is
a cheap addition.



The owners of the ship wouldn't care to protect their money themselves?


--
Tegger

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:00:27 -0500, Peter wrote:

On 1/19/2012 12:32 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 1/18/2012 7:07 PM, micky wrote:

would active sonar have detected the underwater rocks?

Yeah, but why would you want active sonar in a cruise ship. Both the
world's navies and the world's treehugger (well technically
whale-huggers) would be in your face immediately.

You want active sonar to detect certain objects that may be undetected
visually or by radar - a shallow submerged object with neutral buoyancy,
a submarine in quiet mode at all stop, a whale, or in some locations,
rocks and/or reefs that for some reason never made it to the charts.


The area where the ship ran aground is well charted - and has been
for decades. Reefs do not move or grow that quickly.

That would be no fun at all. You'd think this was National Brotherhood Week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgASBVMyVFI

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Tegger" wrote in message
...

I really do wish some people would wait for data before spouting their
prejudices.


--
Tegger

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:54:25 -0500, Peter wrote:

Which aptly demonstrates that regulation is a good thing.


And the regulations should require commercial cruise ships to have
forward looking sonar and be staffed with appropriately trained crew
members to operate it. Given the overall cost of the ship, the sonar is
a cheap addition.

Nautical charts are cheap (paper/digital content). Used if ship
systems fail (compass & North star). These waters were already
charted. They can track a ship from a satellite and say move over
red-rover.

After 5 cruises I've been on, sonar is really not used (that I'm aware
of).

Seems to me that ALL the ship's officer's can't put humpty-dumpily
back together again.

Cruise ships are regulated by international law. Flag registration is
another story -- international law is what is adhered to for legal
purpose.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:00:27 -0500, "
wrote:

This accident would have been highly unlikely on a submarine - the rocks
would have been detected in sufficient time to avoid collision.

Yeah, submarines have never run aground. rolls eyes

"...Oct 22, 2010 · Britain's newest nuclear-powered submarine ran
aground off the coast of Scotland ..."

Golly gee.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:54:25 -0500, Peter wrote:



And the regulations should require commercial cruise ships to have
forward looking sonar and be staffed with appropriately trained crew
members to operate it. Given the overall cost of the ship, the sonar is
a cheap addition.

This accident would have been highly unlikely on a submarine - the rocks
would have been detected in sufficient time to avoid collision.


Not needed. All they have to do to prevent this type of accident is
to follow the rules and stay in the proper ship path. Modern ships
are very well equipped with navigation equipment. It does no good,
though, if a twit breaks the rules.