Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:
http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...56/52632_4.jpg (Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.


Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.


Notes:
Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

On Jan 17, 3:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

Bottom screw is probably one end of a rod that goes all the way to the
other end to hold the radiator sections together... Do not loosen or
you will have a flood.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:48:36 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Jan 17, 3:28Â*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): Â*A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. Â*And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) Â* At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. Â* That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. Â*Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
Â*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. Â*All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

Bottom screw is probably one end of a rod that goes all the way to the
other end to hold the radiator sections together... Do not loosen or
you will have a flood.


Right, don't fool with that.
I've re-sized these in my old house.
Every section has a nipple on one side and a female on the other, top
and bottom.
Mine had end sections without the plug you see on that picture sealing
the female side.
The nipple is a press fit into the female side.

Rods with threaded ends on top and bottom draw the sections together.
You have to work the sections apart with wedges after you remove the
rods.
I bought all-thread rods to put mine back together, since I shortened
the radiators and the old rod was too long and I didn't have the right
die set.
Cleaned up the nipples and females and used Permatex number 2 I think.
Worked out fine.
There's different designs though.
Never saw that one.
Mine were designed where the rods didn't penetrate the water jacket.
I wouldn't fool around with those old valves too much unless you're
prepared to repack them.
See how the heat is with all valves wide open.
Or leave the ones half-closed alone if that's good.
If you work them too much they may start leaking at the stem.

--Vic

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I suppose it's possible.

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:





Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.
____
To all: Thanks for the info received so far. First I must clarify: On
my radiators there is no rod behind these flathead screws. The rods
on these particular rads are connected at both ends with large
hexagonal nuts - two on top and two on bottom.

I have safely revived the full range of motion of the large hand
valves on all radiators. There is a flathead screw holding the
plastic round handle to the actual valve mech inside- most of these
were easily tightened a half turn or more with a screwdriver. My
feeling is that they loosened up over time.

When the system was "cold" I fed water into the boiler up from 12 to
15psi, then bled all radiators starting with a small one in the
kitchen, then the dining, etc, finishing with the bedrooms upstairs.
I did this betw Christmas and New Year's, and then bled only
yesterday. On this last bleed cycle I got no hiss just steady stream
of water from each unit.
It is AMAZING how warm the house stays relative to how cold it is
outdoors when the radiator system is so well primed and sludge free!
Just these few simple steps can save a few 'no heat' calls.


I would still like some more insight on the large 'user' knobs - 1/2
way by default or all the way open?


-CC

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:





Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.

On Jan 18, 1:29*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:



On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www..salvosites.com/images/us...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary..

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.

____
To all: Thanks for the info received so far. *First I must clarify: On
my radiators there is no rod behind these flathead screws. *The rods
on these particular rads are connected at both ends with large
hexagonal nuts - two on top and two on bottom.

I have safely revived the full range of motion of the large hand
valves on all radiators. *There is a flathead screw holding the
plastic round handle to the actual valve mech inside- most of these
were easily tightened a half turn or more with a screwdriver. *My
feeling is that they loosened up over time.

When the system was "cold" I fed water into the boiler up from 12 to
15psi, then bled all radiators starting with a small one in the
kitchen, then the dining, etc, finishing with the bedrooms upstairs.
I did this betw Christmas and New Year's, and then bled only
yesterday. *On this last bleed cycle I got no hiss just steady stream
of water from each unit.
It is AMAZING how warm the house stays relative to how cold it is
outdoors when the radiator system is so well primed and sludge free!
Just these few simple steps can save a few 'no heat' calls.

I would still like some more insight on the large 'user' knobs - *1/2
way by default or all the way open?

It depends on the weather. If it's very cold you will probably need
them wide open.
In unused rooms you can close them.
Manual radiator valve are now virtually unknown in Europe, they are
all thermostatic.

http://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/RadiatorValves.aspx

Theoretically possible to fit these valves to your radiators but
unwise, it might provoke a leak.
Also would spoil the antique effect.
You might want to think about putting an inhibitor in the water to
prevent further corrosion.
http://www.fernox.com/products/water...ment+chemicals
I expect someone in the US makes similar.

There will likely be a small header tank in the roof space keeps the
system topped up. You need to make sure there is no corrosion here
and the float valve is OK. Also,tank is insulated against frost to
suit your climate.

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www..salvosites.com/images/us...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary..

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

If your boiler is old, there is an opportunity to make a big fuel
saving by fitting a condensing boiler. (Assuming you are running on
gas)
They don't seem to be common in America, you need to make sure the
fitter knows what he is about if you follow this route.
All new boilers over here have to be condensing by law, been so for
the last seven or eight years.

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 05:29:10 -0800 (PST), ChrisCoaster
wrote:



I would still like some more insight on the large 'user' knobs - 1/2
way by default or all the way open?


Just do what works for best heat.
Keep in mind that working a valve stem will eventually lead to
leaking around the packing, older the valve the more likely.
Also that some valves have a backseat so that when fully opened there
is no pressure on the stem packing.
I would open them all fully, and only close down if there's too much
heat. Like uncomfortable in a room.
I wouldn't be opening and closing them all the time.

--Vic

On Jan 18, 4:22*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 05:29:10 -0800 (PST), ChrisCoaster

wrote:

I would still like some more insight on the large 'user' knobs - *1/2
way by default or all the way open?

Just do what works for best heat.
Keep in mind that *working a valve stem will eventually lead to
leaking around the packing, older the valve the more likely.
Also that some valves have a backseat so that when fully opened there
is no pressure on the stem packing.
I would open them all fully, and only close down if there's too much
heat. *Like uncomfortable in a room.
I wouldn't be opening and closing them all the time.

--Vic

or replace with temperature control valves, you can set temp in each
room indenpendtly.

much more energy efficent

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:
On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:





On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little..
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.




It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:





On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.



Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -

On Jan 19, 11:14*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:





On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now..
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.

*Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.



It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But harry, have you figured out physics yet? For any given
water flow rate and incoming water temperature going
through a radiator, how do you get the maximum heat
possible out of this simple heat exchanger?

Is it:

A - Move as much air through the radiator as possible,
up to the point where the airflow is sufficient to remove
all the heat.

B - Move as little air through the radiator as possbile
so the air coming out will be as hot as possible?

Can you answer this simple test correctly this time or
are you going to continue to confuse heat with
temperature?

On Jan 20, 9:03*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 19, 11:14*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.

*Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But harry, have you figured out physics yet? *For any given
water flow rate and incoming water temperature going
through a radiator, how do you get the maximum heat
possible out of this simple heat exchanger?

Is it:

A - Move as much air through the radiator as possible,
* * *up to the point where the airflow is sufficient to remove
* * *all the heat.

B - Move as little air through the radiator as possbile
* * * so the air coming out will be as hot as possible?

Can you answer this simple test correctly this time or
are you going to continue to confuse heat with
temperature?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
_______________
SMH(scratching my hair in this case)

Now I'm confused! Please educate us!

-CC

On Jan 20, 12:54*pm, harry wrote:
On Jan 20, 2:03*pm, "
wrote:





On Jan 19, 11:14*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.

*Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But harry, have you figured out physics yet? *For any given
water flow rate and incoming water temperature going
through a radiator, how do you get the maximum heat
possible out of this simple heat exchanger?

Is it:

A - Move as much air through the radiator as possible,
* * *up to the point where the airflow is sufficient to remove
* * *all the heat.

B - Move as little air through the radiator as possbile
* * * so the air coming out will be as hot as possible?

Can you answer this simple test correctly this time or
are you going to continue to confuse heat with
temperature?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are a half wit as usual.



No, as usual you didn't answer the simple question
and instead resorted to hurling insults.

So, we're waiting, is the answer A or B?



If you want to get the most heat into the room,You need a high volume
of water through the radiator. *Delta t will be low.

Pay attention. The question was: With any given water flow
rate, do I get more heat out of the radiator with MORE
airflow past it? More heat until I finally reach the
maximum heat recovery, which would be when the
water temp leaving the radiator equals the air temp?
In another thread you claimed I don't get more heat
with more airflow. Which of course is why you won't
answer the simple, direct question.



The surface temperature of the radiator will be only slightly
different beween water entry and exit points.

If you want to get the most heat out of the water going through the
radiator you need a low volume of water going through the radiator.
Delta t will be high. *There will be a large difference between water
entry and exit points.
Because the water spends longer in the radiator.

Again, pay attention. You're changing the question. The
volume of water entering the radiator is fixed. Do I
get MORE heat out by moving MORE air past the radiator,
yes or no?

On Jan 21, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 20, 12:54*pm, harry wrote:





On Jan 20, 2:03*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:14*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.

*Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But harry, have you figured out physics yet? *For any given
water flow rate and incoming water temperature going
through a radiator, how do you get the maximum heat
possible out of this simple heat exchanger?

Is it:

A - Move as much air through the radiator as possible,
* * *up to the point where the airflow is sufficient to remove
* * *all the heat.

B - Move as little air through the radiator as possbile
* * * so the air coming out will be as hot as possible?

Can you answer this simple test correctly this time or
are you going to continue to confuse heat with
temperature?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are a half wit as usual.

No, as usual you didn't answer the simple question
and instead resorted to hurling insults.

So, we're waiting, is the answer A or B?



If you want to get the most heat into the room,You need a high volume
of water through the radiator. *Delta t will be low.

Pay attention. *The question was: *With any given water flow
rate, do I get more heat out of the radiator with MORE
airflow past it? * More heat until I finally reach the
maximum heat recovery, which would be when the
water temp leaving the radiator equals the air temp?
In another thread you claimed I don't get more heat
with more airflow. *Which of course is why you won't
answer the simple, direct question.

The surface temperature of the radiator will be only slightly
different beween water entry and exit points.

If you want to get the most heat out of the water going through the
radiator you need a low volume of water going through the radiator.
Delta t will be high. *There will be a large difference between water
entry and exit points.
Because the water spends longer in the radiator.

Again, pay attention. *You're changing the question. *The
volume of water entering the radiator is fixed. *Do I
get MORE heat out by moving MORE air past the radiator,
yes or no?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Of course you get more. But in this case, you have no control over the
air flow so it is irrelevent.

In any event a large percentage of the heat is transferred by
radiation in this case. What percentage depends on the radiator
design.

The temperature of the water entering the radiator is fixed.
The volume/speed of water is varied.
The temperature of the water leaving the radiator varies. Depending on
how fast it/what volume moves through the radiator

The volume/speed of water is varied by means of the valve.
The slower it goes/less the volume, the cooler it leaves.

On Jan 22, 4:59*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 21, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:





On Jan 20, 12:54*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 20, 2:03*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:14*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.

*Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But harry, have you figured out physics yet? *For any given
water flow rate and incoming water temperature going
through a radiator, how do you get the maximum heat
possible out of this simple heat exchanger?

Is it:

A - Move as much air through the radiator as possible,
* * *up to the point where the airflow is sufficient to remove
* * *all the heat.

B - Move as little air through the radiator as possbile
* * * so the air coming out will be as hot as possible?

Can you answer this simple test correctly this time or
are you going to continue to confuse heat with
temperature?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are a half wit as usual.

No, as usual you didn't answer the simple question
and instead resorted to hurling insults.

So, we're waiting, is the answer A or B?

If you want to get the most heat into the room,You need a high volume
of water through the radiator. *Delta t will be low.

Pay attention. *The question was: *With any given water flow
rate, do I get more heat out of the radiator with MORE
airflow past it? * More heat until I finally reach the
maximum heat recovery, which would be when the
water temp leaving the radiator equals the air temp?
In another thread you claimed I don't get more heat
with more airflow. *Which of course is why you won't
answer the simple, direct question.

The surface temperature of the radiator will be only slightly
different beween water entry and exit points.

If you want to get the most heat out of the water going through the
radiator you need a low volume of water going through the radiator.
Delta t will be high. *There will be a large difference between water
entry and exit points.
Because the water spends longer in the radiator.

Again, pay attention. *You're changing the question. *The
volume of water entering the radiator is fixed. *Do I
get MORE heat out by moving MORE air past the radiator,
yes or no?- Hide quoted text -


Of course you get more. But in this case, you have no control over the
air flow so it is irrelevent.


OK, then why in the other thread did you claim that
you don't also get more heat out of a water to air solar heat
exchanger when the airflow is increased? The guy was
planning on putting it in the cold air return duct of his
furnace to help heat the house. I said he might as well
use maximum airflow because that is how you get
the most heat out. You said I was wrong. It's the exact
same physics as the above radiator.

In any event a large percentage of the heat is transferred by
radiation in this case. What percentage depends on the radiator
design.

The temperature of the water entering the radiator is fixed.
The volume/speed of water is varied.
The temperature of the water leaving the radiator varies. Depending on
how fast it/what volume moves through the radiator

The volume/speed of water is varied by means of the valve.
The slower it goes/less the volume, the cooler it leaves.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 22, 2:39*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 22, 4:59*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 21, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 20, 12:54*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 20, 2:03*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:14*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit.. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.

*Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But harry, have you figured out physics yet? *For any given
water flow rate and incoming water temperature going
through a radiator, how do you get the maximum heat
possible out of this simple heat exchanger?

Is it:

A - Move as much air through the radiator as possible,
* * *up to the point where the airflow is sufficient to remove
* * *all the heat.

B - Move as little air through the radiator as possbile
* * * so the air coming out will be as hot as possible?

Can you answer this simple test correctly this time or
are you going to continue to confuse heat with
temperature?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are a half wit as usual.

No, as usual you didn't answer the simple question
and instead resorted to hurling insults.

So, we're waiting, is the answer A or B?

If you want to get the most heat into the room,You need a high volume
of water through the radiator. *Delta t will be low.

Pay attention. *The question was: *With any given water flow
rate, do I get more heat out of the radiator with MORE
airflow past it? * More heat until I finally reach the
maximum heat recovery, which would be when the
water temp leaving the radiator equals the air temp?
In another thread you claimed I don't get more heat
with more airflow. *Which of course is why you won't
answer the simple, direct question.

The surface temperature of the radiator will be only slightly
different beween water entry and exit points.

If you want to get the most heat out of the water going through the
radiator you need a low volume of water going through the radiator.
Delta t will be high. *There will be a large difference between water
entry and exit points.
Because the water spends longer in the radiator.

Again, pay attention. *You're changing the question. *The
volume of water entering the radiator is fixed. *Do I
get MORE heat out by moving MORE air past the radiator,
yes or no?- Hide quoted text -

Of course you get more. But in this case, you have no control over the
air flow so it is irrelevent.

OK, then why in the other thread did you claim that
you don't also get more heat out of a water to air solar heat
exchanger when the airflow is increased? *The guy was
planning on putting it in the cold air return duct of his
furnace to help heat the house. *I said he might as well
use maximum airflow because that is how you get
the most heat out. *You said I was wrong. *It's the exact
same physics as the above radiator.





In any event a large percentage of the heat is transferred by
radiation in this case. What percentage depends on the radiator
design.

The temperature of the water entering the radiator is fixed.
The volume/speed of water is varied.
The temperature of the water leaving the radiator varies. Depending on
how fast it/what volume moves through the radiator

The volume/speed of water is varied by means of the valve.
The slower it goes/less the volume, the cooler it leaves.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You have to consider the system as a whole. No use just thinking about
one part of it. It has to be in balance, ie the componemts have to be
compatable in all respects. Sizewise, ability to pass water/air etc.

There are useually two heat exchangers in every system. They have to
be able to transferr similar amounts of heat. the heat exchange
fluid(s) have to be of sufficent volume and heat capacity to achieve
this.

There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If you
want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature. Theoretically
you could have the water at as high a temperature as you want, there
is no upper limit because it is solar radiation hitting the solar
panel not hot air.

In practice of course, as the radiation heats the solar panel up, heat
is re-radiated and a balance is struck.
If you put no water at all through a solar panel, it gets jolly hot.
If you put lots through the panel will be much cooler.
So you can have little water at high temperature or lots at low
temperature.
But there is only so much energy available.

Little water at high temperature is far more useful than lots at low
temperature, especially when it comes to the heat exchanger in the hot
water store.

On Jan 22, 12:12*pm, harry wrote:
On Jan 22, 2:39*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 4:59*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 21, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 20, 12:54*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 20, 2:03*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:14*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 19, 1:15*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:23*pm, harry wrote:

On Jan 18, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 18, 2:50*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:

Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

These are cast iron sectional radiators. *Very common in Europe and
prized by some people as antiques.
However, their performance is as good as anything you can get now.
Additionally they are vrry compactrelative to heat emitted.
They are still made in Europe for old buildings. The proceis
incredible.

The "fins" *are separate pieces assmbled by means of special "nipples
with right and left hand threads on each end.
At one end is a special section that has right and threads on both
sides.

The radiators were puprpose made for each room by assembling the
required number of sections with a special tool
There are four connections to each radiator, the unwanted ones are
blanked off with the hexagonal plugs.

The two valves. One is for balancing the system and should not be
touched.
The other is for controlling heat output by the occupier (ie you)

The small indent above the hex, plug on your picture is where a manual
air vent is fitted (undrilled on your picture), I assume it is on the
other end but it might be in the hex. plug.
You will need a key to operate this.

There may a corrosion problem inside the radiators depending on if the
nipples are steel or malleable iron.

Do not be tempted to remove these radiators for cleaning/
sandblasting ,there is a strong possibility they will leak if the
nipples are steel (and therefore corroded). *The chances of fixing it
if it leaks are small/expensive. *Trying to dissemble one of these is
very difficult by now. (corrosion)

If you want to get the paint off, use a chemical paint stripper
leaving the radiator in situ. *It is not an easy job.

I am not sure about the screw, it may be part of the manufacturing
process.

There are some sectional boilers made with cast iron sections, some
have press fit nipples. They are assembled with long steel rods to
pull them together. I have never seen radiators made by such a process
but I *suppose it's possible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You forgot the part about telling them to reduce the
water flow through this heat exchanger to the minimum
possible, the air flow too, per your screwy theories about
how radiators and heat exchangers work.

I say he gets the most heat out with the valve wide open
and the most airflow possible over the radiator.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If his radiator valve is almost shut, the return water to the boiler
will indeed be much cooler, so making the boiler slightly more
efficient.

And the room will be cooler too, fruitcake.

*Less heat will be let out from the radiator but that is why the valve
was turned down dolt.

It depends on how primitive his boiler is. *You Yanks make the most
awful stuff.- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But harry, have you figured out physics yet? *For any given
water flow rate and incoming water temperature going
through a radiator, how do you get the maximum heat
possible out of this simple heat exchanger?

Is it:

A - Move as much air through the radiator as possible,
* * *up to the point where the airflow is sufficient to remove
* * *all the heat.

B - Move as little air through the radiator as possbile
* * * so the air coming out will be as hot as possible?

Can you answer this simple test correctly this time or
are you going to continue to confuse heat with
temperature?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are a half wit as usual.

No, as usual you didn't answer the simple question
and instead resorted to hurling insults.

So, we're waiting, is the answer A or B?

If you want to get the most heat into the room,You need a high volume
of water through the radiator. *Delta t will be low.

Pay attention. *The question was: *With any given water flow
rate, do I get more heat out of the radiator with MORE
airflow past it? * More heat until I finally reach the
maximum heat recovery, which would be when the
water temp leaving the radiator equals the air temp?
In another thread you claimed I don't get more heat
with more airflow. *Which of course is why you won't
answer the simple, direct question.

The surface temperature of the radiator will be only slightly
different beween water entry and exit points.

If you want to get the most heat out of the water going through the
radiator you need a low volume of water going through the radiator.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?
I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you
want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.




I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.



I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. You
should put a box around it.

I give up on you. It's not possible to educate pork.

On Jan 18, 2:28*pm, harry wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:





Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): *A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. *And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit. See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) * At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. * That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. *Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
*Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. *All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

If your boiler is old, there is an opportunity to make a big fuel
saving by fitting a condensing boiler. *(Assuming you are running on
gas)
They don't seem to be common in America, you need to make sure the
fitter knows what he is about if you follow this route.
All new boilers over here have to be condensing by law, been so for
the last seven or eight years.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


How can one person be so wrong about so many
things?

http://www.pexsupply.com/High-Effici...oilers-1735000

On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:





On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.



I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...
http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...-open-wide.png

On Jan 23, 9:50*am, ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:



On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...resting-mo...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

over cooling the water temp will cause cool exhaust air from fans
making you feel cooler

"harry" wrote in message
...
I give up on you. It's not possible to educate pork.

Which shows how really stupid you are
Pigs are as smart, maybe even smarter than dogs
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html
And that even puts them above you in the food chain.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 2:28 pm, harry wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:28 pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:





Title says it all - 1920s colonial with bulky radiators currently fed
by modern Burnham V8 Boiler.

General Description:
On the radiators themselves there are two types of adjustments(at
least they both *look like* adjustments): A large knob close to the
floor at one end of each radiator. And, two screws, one at each end
'fin', about 1/3rd way up from the bottom of the unit.
See:http://www.salvosites.com/images/use...632_4.jpg(Look
carefully towards bottom - you will see screw I'm referring to) At
top of fin on one end is the bleeder valve - no explanation necessary.

Question#1:
What is the "nominal" or "default" position of those knobs - I'm
assuming 1/2way. That way rooms needing more heat can just be opened
up a little more and those needing less heat can be closed a little.
Currently, I have the units upstairs turned fully counter-clockwise -
Open as indicated on the knob-, and the units downstairs(closest to
the thermostat) halfway open. Please advise.

Question#2:
What is function of the flat-head screws in each end-fin of each
radiator unit, and how should they be ajdusted.

Notes:
Some of these radiators have received multiple coats of paint so
turning items in Q#2 will be difficult at best. All radiators get
plenty hot, especially this past weekend with lows in the low teens,
and are evenly hot - no coldspots.

Thanks,

-ChrisCoaster

If your boiler is old, there is an opportunity to make a big fuel
saving by fitting a condensing boiler. (Assuming you are running on
gas)
They don't seem to be common in America, you need to make sure the
fitter knows what he is about if you follow this route.
All new boilers over here have to be condensing by law, been so for
the last seven or eight years.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


How can one person be so wrong about so many
things?

http://www.pexsupply.com/High-Effici...oilers-1735000

Well, at least he's consistent about being wrong/

On Jan 23, 8:09*pm, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...

I give up on you. It's not possible to educate pork.

Which shows how really stupid you are
Pigs are as smart, maybe even smarter than dogs
* *http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html
And that even puts them above you in the food chain.

Pork is dead.

On Jan 23, 2:50*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:



On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...resting-mo...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The air in the box would be hottest, correct. It would reach the
water temperature of the radiator if it was a good enough box.

And yes, a fan across a radiator would make the system more efficient.
Purpose made devices can be purchased,

On Jan 23, 4:02*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Jan 23, 9:50*am, ChrisCoaster wrote:





On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...ting-mo...Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

over cooling the water temp will cause cool exhaust air from fans
making you feel cooler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can't explain that to dead meat/the troll.

On Jan 24, 3:10*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 23, 4:02*pm, bob haller wrote:





On Jan 23, 9:50*am, ChrisCoaster wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...ng-mo...quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

over cooling the water temp will cause cool exhaust air from fans
making you feel cooler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can't explain that to dead meat/the troll.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excuse me, the entire discussion
we were having was about the physics of heat transfer,
NOT about how people perceive heat. Sure, 200 CFM
of air coming out of a register that is just a couple degrees above
room temperature can feel cooler than 10 CFM of air
that is 20 deg hotter than room temperature. That has
nothing to with which one puts more heat into the house.

In other words, you're once again confusing heat with
temperature.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 8:09 pm, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...

I give up on you. It's not possible to educate pork.

Which shows how really stupid you are
Pigs are as smart, maybe even smarter than dogs
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html
And that even puts them above you in the food chain.

Pork is dead.

There you go
Even pork chop are smarter than you.

On Jan 24, 8:25*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 3:10*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 23, 4:02*pm, bob haller wrote:

On Jan 23, 9:50*am, ChrisCoaster wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...ting-mo...text -

- Show quoted text -

over cooling the water temp will cause cool exhaust air from fans
making you feel cooler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can't explain that to dead meat/the troll.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excuse me, the entire discussion
we were having was about the physics of heat transfer,
NOT about how people perceive heat. * Sure, 200 CFM
of air coming out of a register that is just a couple degrees above
room temperature can feel cooler than 10 CFM of air
*that is 20 deg hotter than room temperature. *That has
nothing to with which one puts more heat into the house.

In other words, you're once again confusing heat with
temperature.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well ultimately what matters more?

the most heat is extracted buy we feel like were freezing?

or a little less heat transfer but were warm and toasty feeling?

On Jan 24, 4:10*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:25*am, "
wrote:





On Jan 24, 3:10*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 23, 4:02*pm, bob haller wrote:

On Jan 23, 9:50*am, ChrisCoaster wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...resting-mo...-

- Show quoted text -

over cooling the water temp will cause cool exhaust air from fans
making you feel cooler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can't explain that to dead meat/the troll.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excuse me, the entire discussion
we were having was about the physics of heat transfer,
NOT about how people perceive heat. * Sure, 200 CFM
of air coming out of a register that is just a couple degrees above
room temperature can feel cooler than 10 CFM of air
*that is 20 deg hotter than room temperature. *That has
nothing to with which one puts more heat into the house.

In other words, you're once again confusing heat with
temperature.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well ultimately what matters more?

the most heat is extracted buy we feel like were freezing?

or a little less heat transfer but were warm and toasty feeling?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's an entirely different subject. The issue was
how you extract the most heat out of a water to air heat
exchanger, ie simple physics. You do that by moving
the most air possible past it, a fact which harry
can't grasp.

I agree that you might want the air to be hotter.
In that case you move less air pass it, getting
warmer air, but you are then getting less than
the maximum possible heat out the heat
exchanger. The issue started over an
attempt to use solar panels that are already
heating a hot water tank. Now you have
panels that are likely sized to a water heater
and already doing duty heating that. So, there
probably isn't a lot of spare heat available.
The issue becomes if you're not extracting
the max heat possible from the heat exchanger,
or close to it, you may not be getting enough
heat out of it for it to be worth it at all.

That was why i said you might as well just
put all the furnace airflow through it since
that would give you the most heat going into
the house possible. Which, of course, harry
vehemently disagreed with, the physics be
damned.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:10:25 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:



well ultimately what matters more?

the most heat is extracted buy we feel like were freezing?

or a little less heat transfer but were warm and toasty feeling?

Reminds me of a friend from Poland I knew.
Ever see the TV series Banacek with George Peppard?
He would spout "Polish proverbs" like
"If you're not sure that it's potato borscht, there could be orphans
working in the mines."
"Though the hippopotamus has no sting, the wise man would prefer to be
sat upon by the bee."
"A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn."
"If a wolf is after your sleigh throw him a raisin cookie, but don't
stop to bake him a cake."
"Just because the cat has her kittens in the oven doesn't make them
biscuits."

Got those from Wiki, but they don't mention how most "real" Polish
proverbs work.
They rhyme, and follow the gender rules of the Polish language.
Might work the same for other languages, don't know.
So you ask me in Polish "What time is it?"
I can answer in Polish,
"She went to take a ****, and hasn't come back yet."
That answer makes perfect sense in Polish.
Even sounds "poetic."
Any Polak here knows that.

Anyway, back to your idea on heat.
My Polish friend once said to me.
"It doesn't matter who you sleep with.
It only matters that you sleep."

You can take it from there.

--Vic

On 1/23/2012 2:09 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote:

"harry" wrote in message
...
I give up on you. It's not possible to educate pork.

Which shows how really stupid you are
Pigs are as smart, maybe even smarter than dogs
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html
And that even puts them above you in the food chain.


I'm not going to jump in and insult anyone but I did see something in
the article I can use in later debates/arguments that struck as a very
funny term to use, "pig cognition". I can think of any number of ways
to use it in a conversation to insult or as a malapropism. ^_^

TDD

On Jan 24, 1:25*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 3:10*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 23, 4:02*pm, bob haller wrote:

On Jan 23, 9:50*am, ChrisCoaster wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:38*pm, "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 2:07*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:12:31 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:

How useful it is or isn't depends on what the application
needs. *As I recall we were discussing how to get the most
heat out of a radiator or heat exchanger. *And you do that
by moving the MOST airflow possible past it until you reach
the point where the air and water exiting are at the same
temperature. *Then you have extracted all the heat possible
and further increases in airflow don't produce any further
increase in heat. * It's really very simple physics and it
works the same for the heat exchanger, a home radiator, a car
radiator, etc.

All your physics is correct.
What's that got to do with harry?

Harry's physics is totally wrong, that's the problem.
He doesn't understand the difference between
heat and temperature, as evidenced by nonsense
such as this:

" There is only so much radiation falling on the solar heater. If
you

want to get the maximum energy out of it you pass the water through it
as slow as possible to achieve the highest temperature.

So, he thinks you get more heat out of the solar array
by passing a pint of water through it and getting a pint
of say 160F water instead of 10 gallons of 100F water.
He continously confuses temperature with heat and
doesn't account for MASS in anything.

I once mentioned I cranked down the gas supply on my old boiler
because it was throwing massive heat up the chimney.
The burners were obviously overpowering the heat exchanger
capacity to absorb heat.

It was an old thing designed when NG was dirt cheap.
Of course I adjusted air to the flame and had good flame, and of
course cycle-on increased.
But my gas usage decreased.
harry still didn't like that.

Funny thing in all this is that he has the nerve to
constantly carp about the US and claim that we
don't have efficient furnaces, boilers, etc. *Yet
it's clear he doesn't even understand high school
physics. *In fact, for most of what I've tried to
explain to him, just practical everyday experience
is all you need.

I always wanted a small fan across my radiator fins when I had hot
water heat, to aid convection. *Never did it though.
Too much work, and they worked well enough.

--Vic

Nah, couldn't be. *According to harry, you get the most
heat when the air from that radiator is hottest. *You
should put a box around it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

________________________
So pretty much what I'm getting here is that #1 - Still water runs
cold(keep water moving) and #2 - Heating will be more efficient if I
place electric fans to blow across radiators where I need more heat,
correct?

Ver-r-r-y interesting...http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...ting-mo...text -

- Show quoted text -

over cooling the water temp will cause cool exhaust air from fans
making you feel cooler- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can't explain that to dead meat/the troll.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excuse me, the entire discussion
we were having was about the physics of heat transfer,
NOT about how people perceive heat. * Sure, 200 CFM
of air coming out of a register that is just a couple degrees above
room temperature can feel cooler than 10 CFM of air
*that is 20 deg hotter than room temperature. *That has
nothing to with which one puts more heat into the house.

In other words, you're once again confusing heat with
temperature.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The whole science of climate control in buildings revolves around the
way people percieve heat. There are massive savings in understanding
this.

On Jan 25, 7:41*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 1/23/2012 2:09 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote:



"harry" wrote in message
...
I give up on you. It's not possible to educate pork.

Which shows how really stupid you are
Pigs are as smart, maybe even smarter than dogs
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/science/10angier.html
And that even puts them above you in the food chain.

I'm not going to jump in and insult anyone but I did see something in
the article I can use in later debates/arguments that struck as a very
funny term to use, "pig cognition". I can think of any number of ways
to use it in a conversation to insult or as a malapropism. ^_^

TDD

Malapropism? My!