On 1/8/2012 11:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?


*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. In others it was just a bad chime. Buy a new chime and try
it out.


Thanks John. When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.

I like that idea. I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box. I have the option of a
repair guy to fix it but he wants $90 just to diagnose the problem but
thanks to everyone including you here, I think we've pretty much
narrowed it down to within the chime box at least.

If you do the simple test, as I describe, you'll determine for sure that
the problem is the chime. You can buy a builders chime at Depot for $20.
and it'll take 15 minutes to install

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:56:08 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 1/8/2012 11:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?


*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. In others it was just a bad chime. Buy a new chime and try
it out.


Thanks John. When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.

I like that idea. I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box. I have the option of a
repair guy to fix it but he wants $90 just to diagnose the problem but
thanks to everyone including you here, I think we've pretty much
narrowed it down to within the chime box at least.

If you do the simple test, as I describe, you'll determine for sure that
the problem is the chime. You can buy a builders chime at Depot for $20.
and it'll take 15 minutes to install


Yeah, I like that simple test. Thanks.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 04:38:07 -0800, mike wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?
Just guessing, 'cause it depends on what king of chime.
If the switch sparks, you've got volts and current, which suggests
it's a solenoid that forces a mass into a mechanical chime.
It's possible that corrosion has increased a contact resistance
so much that it can't move the mass.
But
First thing I'd check is to see if some spider hasn't
gummed up the solenoid so the core can't move and bang the gong.

In my case, the transformer is inside a coat closet above the door
about half way between the button and the chime box.

Never thought about it in that context, but a transformer-operated
doorbell is yet another vampire device that wastes power continuously
when it's used...well...approximately never.
My transformer is mounted at the service panel - as is virtually
every one in my entire neighbourhood, and at least half the city.

Cooking grease, cigaret smoke residue, and just plain gunge will
eventually "stick up" the hammers in the average doorbell chime. I'd
recommend you disconnect it, take it down, and throw it in the
dishwasher - then see how it works. Replacement chimes are cheap too.

He doesn't know what he has.
YOU don't know what he has.
Telling him to put it in the dishwasher is irresponsible.
How?
I've done it numerous times and it works.
If he has a transformer operated chime - unless it is an electronic
chime - I KNOW what he has, because they are all basically the same.
I know how they work - and what goes wrong with them.

If washing the chime in the dishwasher does not remove the crap that
is making it stick, it won't do any harm either becuase the chime is
shot anyway.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 05:40:04 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 8, 1:48Â*am, micky wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). Â*I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. Â*I should have seen it. Â* Â*The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Â* Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Â*Could you hear it from
there? Â* If so, you're right.

It was pretty clear to me that the chime doesn't
ring when he touches the wires together. If
it did I don't think he's be just saying the wires
spark when he touches them.

I agree with CL, all indications are that it's the
chime. It's likely either stuck or shot. Listening
for a hum or measuring for power at the chime
with the wires connected ar the next step.
If there is a spark at the button there WILL be power at the chime.
It's a simple series circuit. If there is CURRENT FLOW the circuit HAS
to be complete. If there is a spark, there is current flow. Simple
basic electrical theory. Measuring the AC voltage across the wires at
the button will tell him what the voltage of the system is. If it is
12 volts or more, the chime should ring. If it is less, the
transformer is highly suspect - I don't know of a doorbell transformer
rated at less than 12 volts - 16 is the most common - 18 and 24 are
also out there.

Fix or replace the chime.

If you are scared to put it in the dishwasher, put it in the trash-can
and buy a new one.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:41:39 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 01:48:56 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:




On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. I should have seen it. The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Could you hear it from
there? If so, you're right.

The button is the most likely thing to break, because it's a moving
part, and they break a lot, and becaus it's outside and gets rained
on. And mine broke once, from age.

If you get a button with a light, and the light goes out when the
button is pressed, that means the button is working, though I suppose
it could be making a poor connection.

Actually, it could be the button. Some have a resistor (or is it a
diode?) that can get fried. Even if you have power, that can make it
inoperative. Pull the button and check for one wired behind it.

OTOH, out the 30+ year in this house, the bell has only worked maybe 6
months. Anyone we know comes to the side door at the family room.
Salesmen, JW's and politicians seeking election come to the front
door. We don't need no steenkin bell.


Micky, I took off the button and tried it on another home and it
worked fine so I put it back on this home knowing it wasn't the
problem.

Let me ask.... if I touched the two wires together and saw spark (did
this like 3 times with same result) as well as the door bell button
was lit too, does this mean that since the transfomer has power, that
the transformer is good? I mean when you test the transformer is it
to just see if it has power?
Basically yes. 99.9% chance your transformer is fine, and your chime
is STUCK.

Clean it or replace it.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?


*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. In others it was just a bad chime. Buy a new chime and try
it out.


Thanks John. When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.
Except we KNOW the front door solenoid is not open circuit - or there
would be NO SPARK, and the button would not light. PERHAPS the rear
plunger MIGHT not be sticky if the front door one is - but it is
unlikely - as whatever stuck up the front door plunger was also
present at the rear door plunger, which has not moved sinse the unit
was installed.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:34:45 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 05:40:04 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 8, 1:48Â*am, micky wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). Â*I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. Â*I should have seen it. Â* Â*The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Â* Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Â*Could you hear it from
there? Â* If so, you're right.

It was pretty clear to me that the chime doesn't
ring when he touches the wires together. If
it did I don't think he's be just saying the wires
spark when he touches them.


When my button failed, putting the wires together would not ring the
chime. It had to pass through the button with the resistor on it.
Unless you know what type of button, we can't eliminate it for
certain.
Was this a fancy electronic chime? If so, some of them have a
different resistance on each button that differentiates the front
button from the back. In that case, having no resistor or the wrong
resistance WOULD cause the chime to fail to respond.

I think they call that "network control" (uses a resistor network to
control the chime)

On 1/8/2012 2:02 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:


I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?


*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. In others it was just a bad chime. Buy a new chime and try
it out.


Thanks John. When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.
Except we KNOW the front door solenoid is not open circuit - or there
would be NO SPARK, and the button would not light. PERHAPS the rear
plunger MIGHT not be sticky if the front door one is - but it is
unlikely - as whatever stuck up the front door plunger was also
present at the rear door plunger, which has not moved sinse the unit
was installed.

Of course there's no open circuit. It's acting exactly as it would if
the solenoid was stuck as John suggested.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 21:58:10 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:05:04 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know.

I mivght ask that question myself, so (I'm not criticiizing him, but
it doesn't really matter. It used to work and now it doesn't, and
the problem, whatever it is, is not related to the voltage.

(You didn't add another bell did you? If you add another bell, it
might be necessary to go to a higher voltage.)

This is why someone said I was recommending a higher voltage! Not my
post his replied to.

I forgot that I said this.

Yes, my bad, here. I'm pretty sure when I went to a bigger
transformer, it was also a higher voltage, so that made me write
something stupid. But the higher voltage would't be rquired, only
higher current capacity.

He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall.

Except for the electricity that goes to it!

Is this a
DIY job???

Yes.

Do you have even a cheap voltmeter? A friend to hep you?

Any good URL to watch on this repair?

??

On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 05:40:04 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 8, 1:48Â*am, micky wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). Â*I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. Â*I should have seen it. Â* Â*The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Â* Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Â*Could you hear it from
there? Â* If so, you're right.

It was pretty clear to me that the chime doesn't
ring when he touches the wires together. If
it did I don't think he's be just saying the wires
spark when he touches them.

I agree with CL, all indications are that it's the
chime. It's likely either stuck or shot. Listening
for a hum or measuring for power at the chime
with the wires connected ar the next step.
If there is a spark at the button there WILL be power at the chime.
It's a simple series circuit. If there is CURRENT FLOW the circuit HAS
to be complete. If there is a spark, there is current flow. Simple
basic electrical theory. Measuring the AC voltage across the wires at
the button will tell him what the voltage of the system is. If it is
12 volts or more, the chime should ring. If it is less, the
transformer is highly suspect - I don't know of a doorbell transformer
rated at less than 12 volts - 16 is the most common - 18 and 24 are
also out there.

Fix or replace the chime.

If you are scared to put it in the dishwasher, put it in the trash-can
and buy a new one.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:52:48 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:



I like that idea. I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box.

When I was renting, I left the landlord alone almost all the time, but
otoh, I think this is his repsonssiblity. Most lls would be happy to
pay for the new chime rather than to have to call a repairman to go to
your home and fix is.

But you probably have to ask him first, if you want him to pay for it.

For example, he may say. I have a working chime you can have. I'll
drop it off for you.

(When my wireless doorbell on the 2nd floor broke after 10 years, a
friend offered me one he wasn't using, new in the bubble pack.)

I have the option of a
repair guy to fix it but he wants $90 just to diagnose the problem but

Most landlords know how to do simple repairs or they have a handyman
who doesn't charge him a minimum to come out and diagnose, and would
charge him for actual time spent including travel, but probably only
true travel time, especially if he's going from one of LL's rentals to
another. IOW, he'll charge the LL 20 or 30 dollars plus the cost of
the bell if he puts one in. . If he has a description of the problem
in advance, he'll bring a new chime with him.


thanks to everyone including you here, I think we've pretty much
narrowed it down to within the chime box at least.

wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 04:38:07 -0800, mike wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?
Just guessing, 'cause it depends on what king of chime.
If the switch sparks, you've got volts and current, which suggests
it's a solenoid that forces a mass into a mechanical chime.
It's possible that corrosion has increased a contact resistance
so much that it can't move the mass.
But
First thing I'd check is to see if some spider hasn't
gummed up the solenoid so the core can't move and bang the gong.

In my case, the transformer is inside a coat closet above the door
about half way between the button and the chime box.

Never thought about it in that context, but a transformer-operated
doorbell is yet another vampire device that wastes power continuously
when it's used...well...approximately never.
My transformer is mounted at the service panel - as is virtually
every one in my entire neighbourhood, and at least half the city.

Cooking grease, cigaret smoke residue, and just plain gunge will
eventually "stick up" the hammers in the average doorbell chime. I'd
recommend you disconnect it, take it down, and throw it in the
dishwasher - then see how it works. Replacement chimes are cheap too.
He doesn't know what he has.
YOU don't know what he has.
Telling him to put it in the dishwasher is irresponsible.
How?
I've done it numerous times and it works.
If he has a transformer operated chime - unless it is an electronic
chime - I KNOW what he has, because they are all basically the same.
I know how they work - and what goes wrong with them.

If washing the chime in the dishwasher does not remove the crap that
is making it stick, it won't do any harm either becuase the chime is
shot anyway.

I call it "shoot from the hip syndrome".
Statistics is a wonderful thing. They're very useful for sizing power
plants.
But when you get down to the individual event, they're useless.

If you set yourself on fire, it matters not that most people don't set
themselves
on fire. YOU ARE ON FIRE!!!

Just because YOU have never seen an exception to your rule, don't mean
that an exception don't exist or may even be common in a different part
of the world.

If you're not sure EXACTLY what's on the other end of that particular
fuse, you should NOT suggest that someone else light it. They just
might end up on fire.

As a general rule, the only thing you should put in the dishwasher
is dishes. Anything else requires a thorough understanding of
ALL the consequences of doing so. In this case, neither you nor the OP
has a clue. The only thing we KNOW from this thread is that there's
a thing on the wall that used to ding and now doesn't.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:52:48 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box

Have you spoken to the landlord? Some landlords restrict this
practice. Check your lease papers, for sure.. He/She may pay for a
new chime, but check it for sticky/broken parts before buying new.

As for locating the transformer -- I've seen them surface mounted,
which is obvious and have seen them mounted in electrical boxes that
have an cover plate (blank?) on them (you have to remove the cover for
repair/replacement. Places to look are in the garage, closet, mud
room or possibly the attic.

...two cents...

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:57:26 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 04:38:07 -0800, mike wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?
Just guessing, 'cause it depends on what king of chime.
If the switch sparks, you've got volts and current, which suggests
it's a solenoid that forces a mass into a mechanical chime.
It's possible that corrosion has increased a contact resistance
so much that it can't move the mass.
But
First thing I'd check is to see if some spider hasn't
gummed up the solenoid so the core can't move and bang the gong.

In my case, the transformer is inside a coat closet above the door
about half way between the button and the chime box.

Never thought about it in that context, but a transformer-operated
doorbell is yet another vampire device that wastes power continuously
when it's used...well...approximately never.
My transformer is mounted at the service panel - as is virtually
every one in my entire neighbourhood, and at least half the city.

Cooking grease, cigaret smoke residue, and just plain gunge will
eventually "stick up" the hammers in the average doorbell chime. I'd
recommend you disconnect it, take it down, and throw it in the
dishwasher - then see how it works. Replacement chimes are cheap too.

He doesn't know what he has.
YOU don't know what he has.
Telling him to put it in the dishwasher is irresponsible.


Thanks Mike... you're right except I didn't take the dishwasher
serious tho for the first moment it made me stop to think about it.
Tho I don't know where the transformer is in this home right now, I

My description by the way was in many cases wrong. Instead of the
mounting tabs at each end, many have a short threaded pipe, that you
can't see becuase it goes into an electrical junction box, so the
trans. sits right up against the box.

think if I saw it, I would now recognize it. And apparently reading
other posts, tells me it's not the problem. I know the button isn't
the problem from testing it on another house so the only answer left
is that the problem is within the chime box.

Very very unlikely here, but for the record, no. The biggest time
this is relevant is when people read the codes on their car and it if
uses the words "Oxygen sensor" or MAP sensor,, that's all they see,
when in fact it will say oxygen sensor cricuit. Then the replace a
sensor and it doesn't fix the car.

(I had a car that set a MAP sensor code, but the only problem was that
the connector wouldn't stay on completely. I used a plastic tie to
hold it tight, and it worked fine for 9 years, until I got a new car.)

So you have to consider the wiring between the major parts. Usually
that just sits there, but I've heard that mice will eat it, or someone
could put a nail through it, even though it should be hidden from
that.. I don't know if mice eat wiring or not. I do know that
when my range hood light wasn't working, and I had mice, I suddently
put 2 and 2 together and thought, Yes, that's it. How willl I find
the damage? But it turned out I had disconnected the range hood
myself, when I was doing something else.

Appreciate your help.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:45:29 -0800, mike wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 04:38:07 -0800, mike wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?
Just guessing, 'cause it depends on what king of chime.
If the switch sparks, you've got volts and current, which suggests
it's a solenoid that forces a mass into a mechanical chime.
It's possible that corrosion has increased a contact resistance
so much that it can't move the mass.
But
First thing I'd check is to see if some spider hasn't
gummed up the solenoid so the core can't move and bang the gong.

In my case, the transformer is inside a coat closet above the door
about half way between the button and the chime box.

Never thought about it in that context, but a transformer-operated
doorbell is yet another vampire device that wastes power continuously
when it's used...well...approximately never.
My transformer is mounted at the service panel - as is virtually
every one in my entire neighbourhood, and at least half the city.

Cooking grease, cigaret smoke residue, and just plain gunge will
eventually "stick up" the hammers in the average doorbell chime. I'd
recommend you disconnect it, take it down, and throw it in the
dishwasher - then see how it works. Replacement chimes are cheap too.
He doesn't know what he has.
YOU don't know what he has.
Telling him to put it in the dishwasher is irresponsible.
How?
I've done it numerous times and it works.
If he has a transformer operated chime - unless it is an electronic
chime - I KNOW what he has, because they are all basically the same.
I know how they work - and what goes wrong with them.

If washing the chime in the dishwasher does not remove the crap that
is making it stick, it won't do any harm either becuase the chime is
shot anyway.

I call it "shoot from the hip syndrome".
Statistics is a wonderful thing. They're very useful for sizing power
plants.
But when you get down to the individual event, they're useless.

If you set yourself on fire, it matters not that most people don't set
themselves
on fire. YOU ARE ON FIRE!!!

Just because YOU have never seen an exception to your rule, don't mean
that an exception don't exist or may even be common in a different part
of the world.

If you're not sure EXACTLY what's on the other end of that particular
fuse, you should NOT suggest that someone else light it. They just
might end up on fire.

As a general rule, the only thing you should put in the dishwasher
is dishes. Anything else requires a thorough understanding of
ALL the consequences of doing so. In this case, neither you nor the OP
has a clue. The only thing we KNOW from this thread is that there's
a thing on the wall that used to ding and now doesn't.
We also know you are clueless.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 15:25:24 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:57:26 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 04:38:07 -0800, mike wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:02:03 -0800, mike wrote:

Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?
Just guessing, 'cause it depends on what king of chime.
If the switch sparks, you've got volts and current, which suggests
it's a solenoid that forces a mass into a mechanical chime.
It's possible that corrosion has increased a contact resistance
so much that it can't move the mass.
But
First thing I'd check is to see if some spider hasn't
gummed up the solenoid so the core can't move and bang the gong.

In my case, the transformer is inside a coat closet above the door
about half way between the button and the chime box.

Never thought about it in that context, but a transformer-operated
doorbell is yet another vampire device that wastes power continuously
when it's used...well...approximately never.
My transformer is mounted at the service panel - as is virtually
every one in my entire neighbourhood, and at least half the city.

Cooking grease, cigaret smoke residue, and just plain gunge will
eventually "stick up" the hammers in the average doorbell chime. I'd
recommend you disconnect it, take it down, and throw it in the
dishwasher - then see how it works. Replacement chimes are cheap too.

He doesn't know what he has.
YOU don't know what he has.
Telling him to put it in the dishwasher is irresponsible.


Thanks Mike... you're right except I didn't take the dishwasher
serious tho for the first moment it made me stop to think about it.
Tho I don't know where the transformer is in this home right now, I

My description by the way was in many cases wrong. Instead of the
mounting tabs at each end, many have a short threaded pipe, that you
can't see becuase it goes into an electrical junction box, so the
trans. sits right up against the box.

think if I saw it, I would now recognize it. And apparently reading
other posts, tells me it's not the problem. I know the button isn't
the problem from testing it on another house so the only answer left
is that the problem is within the chime box.

Very very unlikely here, but for the record, no. The biggest time
this is relevant is when people read the codes on their car and it if
uses the words "Oxygen sensor" or MAP sensor,, that's all they see,
when in fact it will say oxygen sensor cricuit. Then the replace a
sensor and it doesn't fix the car.

(I had a car that set a MAP sensor code, but the only problem was that
the connector wouldn't stay on completely. I used a plastic tie to
hold it tight, and it worked fine for 9 years, until I got a new car.)

So you have to consider the wiring between the major parts. Usually
that just sits there, but I've heard that mice will eat it, or someone
could put a nail through it, even though it should be hidden from
that.. I don't know if mice eat wiring or not. I do know that
when my range hood light wasn't working, and I had mice, I suddently
put 2 and 2 together and thought, Yes, that's it. How willl I find
the damage? But it turned out I had disconnected the range hood
myself, when I was doing something else.

Appreciate your help.


Well, we KNOW the problem is not due to a mouse chewing the wire, or
a nail, because of the simple tests and observations that have already
been reported, and the fact that at least a couple of us actually
understand how the circuit works.. Your reports (first hand) of your
- I hate to use the word, but there is no other that fits - STUPIDITY
shows YOU do NOT understand the circuit or the problem.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:24:30 -0500, wrote:


Well, we KNOW the problem is not due to a mouse chewing the wire, or
a nail, because of the simple tests and observations that have already
been reported, and the fact that at least a couple of us actually
understand how the circuit works.. Your reports (first hand) of your
- I hate to use the word, but there is no other that fits - STUPIDITY
shows YOU do NOT understand the circuit or the problem.

I don't think I've ever seen you so nasty. Take a laxative, and
maybe you'll be okay by tonight.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 13:58:44 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:41:39 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 01:48:56 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:




On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. I should have seen it. The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Could you hear it from
there? If so, you're right.

The button is the most likely thing to break, because it's a moving
part, and they break a lot, and becaus it's outside and gets rained
on. And mine broke once, from age.

If you get a button with a light, and the light goes out when the
button is pressed, that means the button is working, though I suppose
it could be making a poor connection.

Actually, it could be the button. Some have a resistor (or is it a
diode?) that can get fried. Even if you have power, that can make it
inoperative. Pull the button and check for one wired behind it.

OTOH, out the 30+ year in this house, the bell has only worked maybe 6
months. Anyone we know comes to the side door at the family room.
Salesmen, JW's and politicians seeking election come to the front
door. We don't need no steenkin bell.


Micky, I took off the button and tried it on another home and it
worked fine so I put it back on this home knowing it wasn't the
problem.

Let me ask.... if I touched the two wires together and saw spark (did
this like 3 times with same result) as well as the door bell button
was lit too, does this mean that since the transfomer has power, that
the transformer is good? I mean when you test the transformer is it
to just see if it has power?
Basically yes. 99.9% chance your transformer is fine, and your chime
is STUCK.

Clean it or replace it.


Aside for the dishwasher approach, can you recommend a spray solvent
to do this? I read not to use spray oil as that in time will collect
dirt. I was thinking of even trying compressed air but just a guess
on my part.

On Jan 8, 1:56*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 05:40:04 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 8, 1:48*am, micky wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). *I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. *I should have seen it. * *The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? * Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? *Could you hear it from
there? * If so, you're right.

It was pretty clear to me that the chime doesn't
ring when he touches the wires together. *If
it did I don't think he's be just saying the wires
spark when he touches them.

I agree with CL, all indications are that it's the
chime. *It's likely either stuck or shot. *Listening
for a hum or measuring for power at the chime
with the wires connected ar the next step.

*If there is a spark at the button there WILL be power at the chime.
It's a simple series circuit. If there is CURRENT FLOW the circuit HAS
to be complete. If there is a spark, there is current flow. Simple
basic electrical theory.

Ok, let's work with basic electrical theory. The chime
is wired with a two conductor cable. Place a short
in that cable anywhere along it's run and you will
still have sparks when you short the door switch
wires and no power at the chime. Is that more
likely than the door chime being the culprit? No
and I already agreed the chime should be
investigated next. But you can't rule out a short
along the way either. It's easy to test for power at
the chime with the door switch shorted and that's
what I would do. If he doesn't have a tester and
doesn't want to spend $10 on one, then he can
skip that step.


Measuring the AC voltage across the wires at
the button will tell him what the voltage of the system is. If it is
12 volts or more, the chime should ring. If it is less, the
transformer is highly suspect - I don't know of a doorbell transformer
rated at less than 12 volts - 16 is the most common - 18 and 24 are
also out there.

*Fix or replace the chime.

If you are scared to put it in the dishwasher, put it in the trash-can
and buy a new one.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I also have to disagree with the "put it in a dishwasher idea."
As someone else pointed out, you don't know what specific
chime he has or what going through a dishwasher will or
won't do to it. For example, I've seen paper as part of the
solenoid, felt on the striker, etc. If dirt, dust etc is blocking
the solenoid, there are better and safer ways of dealing
with it than putting it in a dishwasher.

On Jan 9, 8:04*am, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 13:58:44 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:41:39 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 01:48:56 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). *I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. *I should have seen it. * *The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? * Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? *Could you hear it from
there? * If so, you're right.

The button is the most likely thing to break, because it's a moving
part, and they break a lot, and becaus it's outside and gets rained
on. *And mine broke once, from age.

If you get a button with a light, and the light goes out when the
button is pressed, that means the button is working, though I suppose
it could be making a poor connection.

Actually, it could be the button. *Some have a resistor (or is it a
diode?) that can get fried. *Even if you have power, that can make it
inoperative. *Pull the button and check for one wired behind it.

OTOH, out the 30+ year in this house, the bell has only worked maybe 6
months. *Anyone we know comes to the side door at the family room.
Salesmen, JW's and politicians seeking election come to the front
door. *We don't need no steenkin bell.

Micky, I took off the button and tried it on another home and it
worked fine so I put it back on this home knowing it wasn't the
problem.

Let me ask.... if I touched the two wires together and saw spark (did
this like 3 times with same result) as well as the door bell button
was lit too, does this mean that since the transfomer has power, that
the transformer is good? *I mean when you test the transformer is it
to just see if it has power?
Basically yes. *99.9% chance your transformer is fine, and your chime
is STUCK.

Clean it or replace it.

Aside for the dishwasher approach, can you recommend a spray solvent
to do this? *I read not to use spray oil as that in time will collect
dirt. *I was thinking of even trying compressed air but just a guess
on my part.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Compressed air sounds like a good choice.
That's what I would probably use. Another option
would be electronic parts cleaner.

On Jan 8, 11:52*am, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, RBM wrote:
On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
*wrote:

I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). *I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. *One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. *He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. * I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. * Is this a
DIY job??? * Any good URL to watch on this repair?

*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. *I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. *In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. *In others it was just a bad chime. *Buy a new chime and try
it out.

Thanks John. *When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? *And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? *In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.

I like that idea. *I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? *I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. *I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. * This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box.

If it's a rental, why is it your problem at all? In most
rental situations if something isn't working it's the
landlord's headache, not yours. Could be you have
a different arrangement, but just saying...





*I have the option of a
repair guy to fix it but he wants $90 just to diagnose the problem but
thanks to everyone including you here, I think we've pretty much
narrowed it down to within the chime box at least. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I like ether starting spray, or carb cleaner, or brake cleaner.

Do this away from the house. Work over some rough soil that won't be hurt by
a bit of crud. (not over Mama's choice rose garden). Or over tarp, or big
chunk of cardboard. Wait a long time for the item to dry (blowing on it
helps) and make totally sure it's dry before you bring it back in.

Good brand of silicone spray might help as lube. Snap, or other good brand.
Not the Walmart $1.37 per can house brand.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug" wrote in message
...


Clean it or replace it.


Aside for the dishwasher approach, can you recommend a spray solvent
to do this? I read not to use spray oil as that in time will collect
dirt. I was thinking of even trying compressed air but just a guess
on my part.

On 1/9/2012 8:04 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 13:58:44 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:41:39 -0600,
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 01:48:56 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed wrote:




On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. I should have seen it. The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Could you hear it from
there? If so, you're right.

The button is the most likely thing to break, because it's a moving
part, and they break a lot, and becaus it's outside and gets rained
on. And mine broke once, from age.

If you get a button with a light, and the light goes out when the
button is pressed, that means the button is working, though I suppose
it could be making a poor connection.

Actually, it could be the button. Some have a resistor (or is it a
diode?) that can get fried. Even if you have power, that can make it
inoperative. Pull the button and check for one wired behind it.

OTOH, out the 30+ year in this house, the bell has only worked maybe 6
months. Anyone we know comes to the side door at the family room.
Salesmen, JW's and politicians seeking election come to the front
door. We don't need no steenkin bell.


Micky, I took off the button and tried it on another home and it
worked fine so I put it back on this home knowing it wasn't the
problem.

Let me ask.... if I touched the two wires together and saw spark (did
this like 3 times with same result) as well as the door bell button
was lit too, does this mean that since the transfomer has power, that
the transformer is good? I mean when you test the transformer is it
to just see if it has power?
Basically yes. 99.9% chance your transformer is fine, and your chime
is STUCK.

Clean it or replace it.


Aside for the dishwasher approach, can you recommend a spray solvent
to do this? I read not to use spray oil as that in time will collect
dirt. I was thinking of even trying compressed air but just a guess
on my part.

You can simply take the solenoid assembly apart and clean the plunger
and the inside of the coil with whatever, leaving it clean and dry. No
lubrication required.

On 1/9/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:
On Jan 8, 11:52 am, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, wrote:
On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:

I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?

*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. In others it was just a bad chime. Buy a new chime and try
it out.

Thanks John. When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.

I like that idea. I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box.

If it's a rental, why is it your problem at all? In most
rental situations if something isn't working it's the
landlord's headache, not yours. Could be you have
a different arrangement, but just saying...

I don't know the law in different states, but in PA any repairs under
$100 are the responsibility of the renter.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 10:12:42 -0500, Tony Miklos
wrote:

On 1/9/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:
On Jan 8, 11:52 am, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, wrote:
On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
wrote:

I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?

*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. In others it was just a bad chime. Buy a new chime and try
it out.

Thanks John. When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.

I like that idea. I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box.

If it's a rental, why is it your problem at all? In most
rental situations if something isn't working it's the
landlord's headache, not yours. Could be you have
a different arrangement, but just saying...

I don't know the law in different states, but in PA any repairs under
$100 are the responsibility of the renter.


In Texas it's what the lease states.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:52:07 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:52:48 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box

Have you spoken to the landlord? Some landlords restrict this
practice. Check your lease papers, for sure.. He/She may pay for a
new chime, but check it for sticky/broken parts before buying new.

As for locating the transformer -- I've seen them surface mounted,
which is obvious and have seen them mounted in electrical boxes that
have an cover plate (blank?) on them (you have to remove the cover for
repair/replacement. Places to look are in the garage, closet, mud
room or possibly the attic.

...two cents...


I am the landlord In my own house, the transformer is in the
attic near where you enter the attic.

On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 06:16:09 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 8, 11:52*am, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, RBM wrote:
On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
*wrote:

I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). *I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. *One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. *He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. * I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. * Is this a
DIY job??? * Any good URL to watch on this repair?

*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. *I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. *In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. *In others it was just a bad chime. *Buy a new chime and try
it out.

Thanks John. *When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? *And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? *In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.

I like that idea. *I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? *I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. *I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. * This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box.

If it's a rental, why is it your problem at all? In most
rental situations if something isn't working it's the
landlord's headache, not yours. Could be you have
a different arrangement, but just saying...




I'm the landlord ... here in Texas, goes by the lease.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 21:13:06 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:05:04 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. Is this a
DIY job??? Any good URL to watch on this repair?

There is really nothing wrong with your doorbell (chime). The problem
is that because you dont have any friends, there is no one at the
door!

To solve this problem, go to the "Rescue Mission", hand out $20 bills
and a bottle of wine to the bums, in trade for them ringing your
doorbell. Most of them will ring your bell for $20 and wine. Be sure
to give them your home address, and a detailed map, so they know which
bell to ring. Also, make sure to check their ID and write down their
name, mailing address, and phone number. That way, if they dont
complete the job, you can sue them if they dont return your money and
the wine.

Note: If your house is more than two blocks from the mission, you'll
have to get the guys a taxi, and pay the fare.
Additionally, be sure to hire at least ten bums. You want to make
sure the chime rings regardless of whose finger pushes it.


Nice grin !!

On Jan 9, 10:12*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 1/9/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:



On Jan 8, 11:52 am, *wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 09:03:36 -0500, *wrote:
On 1/8/2012 8:52 AM, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:48:59 -0500, "John Grabowski"
* *wrote:

I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). *I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark. *One repair guy asked me if
it's a 16v or 24v transformer and I don't know. *He seemed to say it's
not a part of the chime box inside. * I thought everything was self
contained inside the chime box that mounts on the wall. * Is this a
DIY job??? * Any good URL to watch on this repair?

*If you got a spark, the transformer is working. *I've had some customers
who have had problems with their chimes. *In two instances the problem was
as a result of the cover not being seated properly and was interfering with
the mechanism. *In others it was just a bad chime. *Buy a new chime and try
it out.

Thanks John. *When I test the transformer, is it only to see if it has
power? *And the simple test is to just touch the two wires together to
see spark (as I did and saw spark)?

Suppose I didn't touch the two wires together but the door bell button
was lit, would this also tell me the transformer is fine? *In this
case, the button stayed lit tho no sound and I tested the button on
another home and it worked.

Maybe the chime is stuck but to maybe speed things up, I may just go
ahead and replace the box.

If your lighted button is lit, or you touch the wires together and get a
spark, you've got transformer. No need to pursue that direction. John is
probably 99.9 % correct, that the problem is with the front door,
(ding-dong) solenoid, which is why I suggest connecting the "rear" door
solenoid, as a test.

I like that idea. *I presume the solenoid is the chime mechanism? *I
saw one video that said to use lighter fluid (not oil) if the
plunger(solenoid??) is stuck. *I guess the other way is to just
replace the whole chime box. * This is a rental home so I don't want
spend a lot of time on it but that doesn't mean I have unlimited funds
but I'm willing to just replace the box.

If it's a rental, why is it your problem at all? *In most
rental situations if something isn't working it's the
landlord's headache, not yours. *Could be you have
a different arrangement, but just saying...

I don't know the law in different states, but in PA any repairs under
$100 are the responsibility of the renter.

A tenant under the law can not be required to pay for "repairs" for
damages which are not their responsibility...

A doorbell is hardwired to the landlord's premises and therefore not
the property of the tenant... A doorbell (and even an intercom and
door release on larger apartment buildings) is required on rental
units,
therefore it is something that the landlord must provide in proper
working order... Like a smoke detector or fire alarm system -- not
the tenant's problem to deal with as they are not the owner of the
building and don't deal with the fire department for permits or
inspections...

So the only way a tenant would be paying for those repairs, would
be if the tenant ripped the chime or door button out of the wall
maliciously intending to cause damage to the landlord's property...

~~ Evan

On Jan 9, 9:37 am, "Doug" wrote:

Note: If your house is more than two blocks from the mission, you'll
have to get the guys a taxi, and pay the fare.
Additionally, be sure to hire at least ten bums. You want to make
sure the chime rings regardless of whose finger pushes it.

Nice grin !!

We put a motion detector activated near the outside door, it turns on
a radio
inside. It works ok.
Ken

On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 09:59:42 -0800 (PST), "Ken S. Tucker"
wrote:

On Jan 9, 9:37 am, "Doug" wrote:

Note: If your house is more than two blocks from the mission, you'll
have to get the guys a taxi, and pay the fare.
Additionally, be sure to hire at least ten bums. You want to make
sure the chime rings regardless of whose finger pushes it.

Nice grin !!

We put a motion detector activated near the outside door, it turns on
a radio
inside. It works ok.
Ken


Does it work in reverse such that when the detector is no longer
activated, does the radio shut off?

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 23:56:17 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:24:30 -0500, wrote:


Well, we KNOW the problem is not due to a mouse chewing the wire, or
a nail, because of the simple tests and observations that have already
been reported, and the fact that at least a couple of us actually
understand how the circuit works.. Your reports (first hand) of your
- I hate to use the word, but there is no other that fits - STUPIDITY
shows YOU do NOT understand the circuit or the problem.

I don't think I've ever seen you so nasty. Take a laxative, and
maybe you'll be okay by tonight.
I'm generally not nasty - and tried not to be in that reply - but
there is no other accurate description.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 07:04:18 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 13:58:44 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:41:39 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 01:48:56 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:




On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. I should have seen it. The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Could you hear it from
there? If so, you're right.

The button is the most likely thing to break, because it's a moving
part, and they break a lot, and becaus it's outside and gets rained
on. And mine broke once, from age.

If you get a button with a light, and the light goes out when the
button is pressed, that means the button is working, though I suppose
it could be making a poor connection.

Actually, it could be the button. Some have a resistor (or is it a
diode?) that can get fried. Even if you have power, that can make it
inoperative. Pull the button and check for one wired behind it.

OTOH, out the 30+ year in this house, the bell has only worked maybe 6
months. Anyone we know comes to the side door at the family room.
Salesmen, JW's and politicians seeking election come to the front
door. We don't need no steenkin bell.


Micky, I took off the button and tried it on another home and it
worked fine so I put it back on this home knowing it wasn't the
problem.

Let me ask.... if I touched the two wires together and saw spark (did
this like 3 times with same result) as well as the door bell button
was lit too, does this mean that since the transfomer has power, that
the transformer is good? I mean when you test the transformer is it
to just see if it has power?
Basically yes. 99.9% chance your transformer is fine, and your chime
is STUCK.

Clean it or replace it.


Aside for the dishwasher approach, can you recommend a spray solvent
to do this? I read not to use spray oil as that in time will collect
dirt. I was thinking of even trying compressed air but just a guess
on my part.
You could go out and buy a can of "brake clean" or "brake kleen" and
try that. You want it off the wall first - and on a layer of
newspaper.
Brake Kleen is generally safe on MOST plastics - but I would not
guarantee it. You do not need to rinse - it evaporates leaving no
residue
I suspect you have an oily build-up causing your problem.

Or you could use something like "spray 9" or "fantastic" - but you
will need to rinse them both well with hot water when you are finished
- so might just as well use the dishwasher.

On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 06:11:34 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 8, 1:56Â*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 05:40:04 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 8, 1:48Â*am, micky wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). Â*I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. Â*I should have seen it. Â* Â*The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Â* Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Â*Could you hear it from
there? Â* If so, you're right.

It was pretty clear to me that the chime doesn't
ring when he touches the wires together. Â*If
it did I don't think he's be just saying the wires
spark when he touches them.

I agree with CL, all indications are that it's the
chime. Â*It's likely either stuck or shot. Â*Listening
for a hum or measuring for power at the chime
with the wires connected ar the next step.

Â*If there is a spark at the button there WILL be power at the chime.
It's a simple series circuit. If there is CURRENT FLOW the circuit HAS
to be complete. If there is a spark, there is current flow. Simple
basic electrical theory.

Ok, let's work with basic electrical theory. The chime
is wired with a two conductor cable. Place a short
in that cable anywhere along it's run and you will
still have sparks when you short the door switch
wires and no power at the chime. Is that more
likely than the door chime being the culprit? No
and I already agreed the chime should be
investigated next. But you can't rule out a short
along the way either. It's easy to test for power at
the chime with the door switch shorted and that's
what I would do. If he doesn't have a tester and
doesn't want to spend $10 on one, then he can
skip that step.


Draw out the circuit. 2 options. Transformer to bell to button, or
transformer to button to bell.
Simple series loop.

Option 1. short between the transformer and the bell means no power at
the button - so no spark. Short between the button and the bell -
possible - still get a spark - and no ring. But this is an UNLIKEY
wiring scheme, since USUALLY the power goes by a single 2 strand cable
to the bell (T and C), and the button is connected by a single 2
strand cable to the chime (FD and C) - which is:

Option 2.
If the nail is between the transformer and the bell, the short will
ensure there is no power to the bell - and therefore to the button -
so no spark.

If the nail is between the bell and the button - again no spark - and
the doorbell should hum and get warm. After an hour or so, it would be
warm enough to be obvious.

So I think we are safe to say that is not the problem - with wiring
scenario Option 2.

And Option 1 would ONLY exist if it was installed by an amateur who
did not read instructions but had a slight inkling of how electrical
circuits worked. - so again - I'd say we are pretty safe to ASS U ME (
I know ----- ) that it is NOT the problem.........



And just look at the way that thing is wired -------- Then look at
your recomendation again.


see
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/home-...ystem-2002.php
That's the right way.

Look at
http://www.electrical-online.com/und...rbell-systems/ and
try to envision how you would do that with 2 strand bell wire. Then
think how TWISTED an electrician would have to be to attempt it.

Then look at
http://www.eurekamodern.com/vintage_...d_power%20.htm.
Envision doing THAT with 2 conductor cable.
Would ANY sane man run the wire from the TRANSFORMER to the bell and
then to the side or rear connection??? Of course not - he would run it
from the TRANS connection on the chime UNLESS he was running single
strand wire - not 2 conductor bell cable. That diagram, by the way, is
for a MOTORIZED chime from the fifties.

If you look at
http://electrical.about.com/od/lowvo...r_Chimes_6.htm
and try to follow the instructions, you will find it impossible.

The "Now, run the door chime wiring from the side or back door to the
door transformer." is WRONG. It needs to go to the door CHIME.

quote :
..Run the two conductor low voltage wiring from the front door to the
door chime. Now, run the door chime wiring from the side or back door
to the door transformer. These two wires should be marked front and
back door to keep them straight. Also run a third wire from the door
chime to the transformer. This will feed the power to the door chime.
Bring the wiring through the access hole in the chime mechanism. With
the wire strippers, strip the outer sheathing from the three wires. On
the power feed wire, tie one side of the transformer to the center
terminal of the door chime. The other wire connects to the second
terminal of the transformer and also to the black wires of the two
door wires. Use a wire nut to connect these together. The white wire
will connect to the front and back door terminals of the door chime,
as you have already marked these earlier.



SO --------- Back to the real world..


Wire from transformer to chime. Wire from chime to button.
Spark at button. WHERE can there possibly be a short that would allow
power to the button and not the chime?????

Unless it was totally mis-wired it is NOT POSSIBLE.


Measuring the AC voltage across the wires at
the button will tell him what the voltage of the system is. If it is
12 volts or more, the chime should ring. If it is less, the
transformer is highly suspect - I don't know of a doorbell transformer
rated at less than 12 volts - 16 is the most common - 18 and 24 are
also out there.

Â*Fix or replace the chime.

If you are scared to put it in the dishwasher, put it in the trash-can
and buy a new one.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I also have to disagree with the "put it in a dishwasher idea."
As someone else pointed out, you don't know what specific
chime he has or what going through a dishwasher will or
won't do to it. For example, I've seen paper as part of the
solenoid, felt on the striker, etc. If dirt, dust etc is blocking
the solenoid, there are better and safer ways of dealing
with it than putting it in a dishwasher.

On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 06:13:34 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 9, 8:04Â*am, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 13:58:44 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:41:39 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 01:48:56 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:43:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/7/2012 2:05 PM, Doug wrote:
I've got a house that the door chime stopped working (making a chime
noise). Â*I know it's not the outside button and the two wires outside
that connect to the button (that go thru the outside brick wall) when
touching each other showed some spark.

Ed makes a good point. Â*I should have seen it. Â* Â*The sparks show
you have power, but why do you think the button is wroking? Â* Because
connecting the two wires doesn't make it ring? Â*Could you hear it from
there? Â* If so, you're right.

The button is the most likely thing to break, because it's a moving
part, and they break a lot, and becaus it's outside and gets rained
on. Â*And mine broke once, from age.

If you get a button with a light, and the light goes out when the
button is pressed, that means the button is working, though I suppose
it could be making a poor connection.

Actually, it could be the button. Â*Some have a resistor (or is it a
diode?) that can get fried. Â*Even if you have power, that can make it
inoperative. Â*Pull the button and check for one wired behind it.

OTOH, out the 30+ year in this house, the bell has only worked maybe 6
months. Â*Anyone we know comes to the side door at the family room.
Salesmen, JW's and politicians seeking election come to the front
door. Â*We don't need no steenkin bell.

Micky, I took off the button and tried it on another home and it
worked fine so I put it back on this home knowing it wasn't the
problem.

Let me ask.... if I touched the two wires together and saw spark (did
this like 3 times with same result) as well as the door bell button
was lit too, does this mean that since the transfomer has power, that
the transformer is good? Â*I mean when you test the transformer is it
to just see if it has power?
Basically yes. Â*99.9% chance your transformer is fine, and your chime
is STUCK.

Clean it or replace it.

Aside for the dishwasher approach, can you recommend a spray solvent
to do this? Â*I read not to use spray oil as that in time will collect
dirt. Â*I was thinking of even trying compressed air but just a guess
on my part.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Compressed air sounds like a good choice.
That's what I would probably use. Another option
would be electronic parts cleaner.
Compressed air will not remove greasy buildup. It might remove greasy
fuzz - but the grease will still be there.


If it is a horizontal acting 2-tone chime, the plunger will be
suspended between 2 springs, and it is REAL EASY to tell if it is
sticky..
If it is a vertical acting chime, the plunger will be suspended ona
single spring - and it is also VERY EASY to tell if it is sticking..

I have BOTH in my house - 1 up, and 1 down.

I'm still very partial to the dish washer. ASAS U ME ing it is NOT an
"electronic chime".

On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 09:51:05 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I like ether starting spray, or carb cleaner, or brake cleaner.

Do this away from the house. Work over some rough soil that won't be hurt by
a bit of crud. (not over Mama's choice rose garden). Or over tarp, or big
chunk of cardboard. Wait a long time for the item to dry (blowing on it
helps) and make totally sure it's dry before you bring it back in.

Good brand of silicone spray might help as lube. Snap, or other good brand.
Not the Walmart $1.37 per can house brand.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Doug" wrote in message
.. .


Clean it or replace it.


Aside for the dishwasher approach, can you recommend a spray solvent
to do this? I read not to use spray oil as that in time will collect
dirt. I was thinking of even trying compressed air but just a guess
on my part.

The clearance between the coil frame and the plunger is large enough
that just plain AIR is the best lubricant you can get. There's a good
1/32 inch of cleance in any I've ever seen - Get the greasy
fuzzy-wuzzies out and leave it totally clean and dry.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:07:25 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 23:56:17 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:24:30 -0500, wrote:


Well, we KNOW the problem is not due to a mouse chewing the wire, or
a nail, because of the simple tests and observations that have already
been reported, and the fact that at least a couple of us actually
understand how the circuit works.. Your reports (first hand) of your
- I hate to use the word, but there is no other that fits - STUPIDITY
shows YOU do NOT understand the circuit or the problem.

I don't think I've ever seen you so nasty. Take a laxative, and
maybe you'll be okay by tonight.
I'm generally not nasty - and tried not to be in that reply - but
there is no other accurate description.

Your description was not accurate. The wire needn't be cut, it could
be shorted. The button ends would still spark but they woudln't ring
the chime.

On Jan 9, 12:16 pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 09:59:42 -0800 (PST), "Ken S. Tucker"

wrote:
On Jan 9, 9:37 am, "Doug" wrote:

Note: If your house is more than two blocks from the mission, you'll
have to get the guys a taxi, and pay the fare.
Additionally, be sure to hire at least ten bums. You want to make
sure the chime rings regardless of whose finger pushes it.

Nice grin !!

We put a motion detector activated near the outside door, it turns on
a radio
inside. It works ok.
Ken

Does it work in reverse such that when the detector is no longer
activated, does the radio shut off?

Yeah, it's a spare FM radio plug into a cord from the motion
detector. It also activates a light inside.
Actually we have 4 of them, one for each corner of the house,
mainly to pick up deer and other pets wandering around.
Sometimes there are false alerts so I turn the radio down but
the lights still works.
Ken

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 23:06:46 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:07:25 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 23:56:17 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:24:30 -0500, wrote:


Well, we KNOW the problem is not due to a mouse chewing the wire, or
a nail, because of the simple tests and observations that have already
been reported, and the fact that at least a couple of us actually
understand how the circuit works.. Your reports (first hand) of your
- I hate to use the word, but there is no other that fits - STUPIDITY
shows YOU do NOT understand the circuit or the problem.

I don't think I've ever seen you so nasty. Take a laxative, and
maybe you'll be okay by tonight.
I'm generally not nasty - and tried not to be in that reply - but
there is no other accurate description.

Your description was not accurate. The wire needn't be cut, it could
be shorted. The button ends would still spark but they woudln't ring
the chime.
Did you read my whole post? There is only ONE way that could happen -
and doorbells are almost exclusively not wired in the way that would
allow it to happen. Virtually all doorbels are wired with a 2 wire
cable to the bell, and a 2 wire cable from the bell to each button.

Wired that way it is IMPOSSIBLE to have the scenario you are
proposing.. And what I was refering to as STUPIDITY was the examples
of your blundering you gave , not the doorbell.

On Jan 9, 5:07*pm, wrote:

Ok, let's work with basic electrical theory. *The chime
is wired with *a two conductor cable. *Place a short
in that cable anywhere along it's run and you will
still have sparks when you short the door switch
wires and no power at the chime. *Is that more
likely than the door chime being the culprit? *No
and I already agreed the chime should be
investigated next. * But you can't rule out a short
along the way either. *It's easy to test for power at
the chime with the door switch shorted and that's
what I would do. *If he doesn't have a tester and
doesn't want to spend $10 on one, then he can
skip that step.

*Draw out the circuit. *2 options. Transformer to bell to button, or
transformer to button to bell.


I don't need to draw out the circuit. The chime is a
2 wire device. A 2 wired cable is frequently used to
connect to it. That wire runs some length through
the house, often to the transformer, where one
wire connects to the transformer, the other to one
wire going to the door bell button. The doorbell
button is another 2 wire device. It frequently is
wired with a 2 wire cable back to the transformer
where one wire gets connected to the other side
of the transformer, completing the circuit.
Doesn't get any simpler than that.

Now let's say the chime is OK. The 2 wire cable
connected to it as described above is however
shorted somewhere along it's run between the
transformer and the chime. You touch
the doorbell wires together and you get sparks.

That's why I suggested that he listen for a hum
at the chime or test for power at
the chime with the doorbell wires connected. It
quickly rules out the possibility of a short.