Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam

On 10/6/2011 7:54 PM, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam
As the load is decreased, so is the fuel consumption. It's like keeping
a car at 30 MPH, on a flat level road, it requires less gas than when
it's going up hill, to maintain the same speed. Typically, the generator
spec will give you fuel consumption at full load, and half load

Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam
Hi,
If cost is not a big concern, I'd always take over sized one than just
right or undersized one in anything.

On Oct 6, 6:54*pm, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam

It will also last longer not needing to work as hard

"Sam Takoy" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam

It will be reduced, but not by half. Even with no load, an engine of a
given size must burn a certain amount of fuel just to stay running. You can
also run some cable to your neighbor and have him chip in for gas.

On 10/6/2011 7:54 PM, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam

As far as I know, all are specified as running wattage and peak wattage.
There will be times that a couple of things start at once needing the peak.

My neighbor's generator is half the size of mine and he gets by but
wishes it was larger.

On Oct 6, 7:54*pm, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam

In most cases it will burn less if it is working less. There is some
"overhead" though. But in the less than 10k watts it's not a lot.

Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. Mine is a 5500 watt & does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup.

But, as others have pointed out;
1. you won't cut consumption in 1/2.
2. too big is generally better than too small.

I've never heard anyone complain about their generator being too big.
It is not a very efficient beast to begin with. It is for comfort--
more comfort is good.

Jim

On Oct 7, 8:09*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. * Mine is a 5500 watt & does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

That's hard to imagine. I've yet to see a generator that
does not have a governor that regulates the throttle
based on load. Let's assume you had gasoline flowing
at a rate to support 5500 watts, but there is no load
connected at all. Where would all that extra energy
go to? If it went to waste heat, it would generate one
hell of a lot of heat. Whether it's a lawn mower, car
or generator, all regulate gas flow to the load.

To the OP, that generator will use a lot less at half load
than at full load. Think of two identical cars except for
different engines going 100mph. One car has a 2L V6, the other a 5L
V8. The 5L is going to use somewhat more
gas, but while the 2L is maxed out at 100mph, the other car can go a
lot faster if needed, burning more gas to do it.

In the grand scheme of things, if the generator is for
occasional use, I'd much rather have the larger one
because the additional gas usage cost isn't that great
and having the extra capacity is almost always a good
thing.







My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup. *

But, as others have pointed out;
1. you won't cut consumption in 1/2.
2. *too big is generally better than too small. * *

I've never heard anyone complain about their generator being too big.
It is not a very efficient beast to begin with. * It is for comfort--
more comfort is good.

Jim

On Oct 7, 8:30*am, "
wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:09*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. * Mine is a 5500 watt & does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

That's hard to imagine. *I've yet to see a generator that
does not have a governor that regulates the throttle
based on load. *Let's assume you had gasoline flowing
at a rate to support 5500 watts, but there is no load
connected at all. *Where would all that extra energy
go to? *If it went to waste heat, it would generate one
hell of a lot of heat. *Whether it's a lawn mower, car
or generator, all regulate gas flow to the load.

To the OP, that generator will use a lot less at half load
than at full load. *Think of two identical cars except for
different engines going 100mph. *One car has a 2L V6, the other a 5L
V8. * The 5L is going to use somewhat more
gas, but while the 2L is maxed out at 100mph, the other car can go a
lot faster if needed, burning more gas to do it.

In the grand scheme of things, if the generator is for
occasional use, I'd much rather have the larger one
because the additional gas usage cost isn't that great
and having the extra capacity is almost always a good
thing.





My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup. *

But, as others have pointed out;
1. you won't cut consumption in 1/2.
2. *too big is generally better than too small. * *

I've never heard anyone complain about their generator being too big.
It is not a very efficient beast to begin with. * It is for comfort--
more comfort is good.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I believe what he is saying is that no matter what the load the
generator is always running at the same rpm.

The governor increases the throttle opening when the generator comes
under a load to keep it at the same rpm and output frequency. For
most gas ones that's 3600 rpm. Much bigger ones will run at 1800 rpm.

To a point the gas consumption is not much more. But you can get
carried away. A 20kw generator will be a multiple cylinder engine and
will burn a bit of fuel even with a small load. Just to keep the
engine turning at 1800 rpm.

On Oct 6, 7:54*pm, Sam Takoy wrote:
If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

No, you'll just burn down your house because the generator will be
pumping 7000 Watts into the house and the house will only use 3500.
The other 3500 Watts will build up as heat and eventually burst into
flame.

On 10/7/2011 9:58 AM, wrote:
On Oct 6, 7:54 pm, Sam wrote:
If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

No, you'll just burn down your house because the generator will be
pumping 7000 Watts into the house and the house will only use 3500.
The other 3500 Watts will build up as heat and eventually burst into
flame.

Gawd I hope you aren't serious?

On Oct 7, 9:32*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:30*am, "
wrote:





On Oct 7, 8:09*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. * Mine is a 5500 watt & does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

That's hard to imagine. *I've yet to see a generator that
does not have a governor that regulates the throttle
based on load. *Let's assume you had gasoline flowing
at a rate to support 5500 watts, but there is no load
connected at all. *Where would all that extra energy
go to? *If it went to waste heat, it would generate one
hell of a lot of heat. *Whether it's a lawn mower, car
or generator, all regulate gas flow to the load.

To the OP, that generator will use a lot less at half load
than at full load. *Think of two identical cars except for
different engines going 100mph. *One car has a 2L V6, the other a 5L
V8. * The 5L is going to use somewhat more
gas, but while the 2L is maxed out at 100mph, the other car can go a
lot faster if needed, burning more gas to do it.

In the grand scheme of things, if the generator is for
occasional use, I'd much rather have the larger one
because the additional gas usage cost isn't that great
and having the extra capacity is almost always a good
thing.

My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup. *

But, as others have pointed out;
1. you won't cut consumption in 1/2.
2. *too big is generally better than too small. * *

I've never heard anyone complain about their generator being too big.
It is not a very efficient beast to begin with. * It is for comfort--
more comfort is good.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I believe what he is saying is that no matter what the load the
generator is always running at the same rpm.

He never mentioned RPM. He only talked about how much
gas it uses versus load.


The governor increases the throttle opening when the generator comes
under a load to keep it at the same rpm and output frequency. *For
most gas ones that's 3600 rpm. *Much bigger ones will run at 1800 rpm.

Agree.



To a point the gas consumption is not much more. *But you can get
carried away. *A 20kw generator will be a multiple cylinder engine and
will burn a bit of fuel even with a small load. *Just to keep the
engine turning at 1800 rpm.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree.

On Oct 7, 10:39*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 10/7/2011 9:58 AM, wrote:

On Oct 6, 7:54 pm, Sam *wrote:
If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

No, you'll just burn down your house because the generator will be
pumping 7000 Watts into the house and the house will only use 3500.
The other 3500 Watts will build up as heat and eventually burst into
flame.

Gawd I hope you aren't serious?

I think his point is that based on physics, if the gas input
did not vary based on load, there would be a hell of a
lot of energy that would have to go somewhere when
a 7000 watt generator is only putting out 3500 watts
as electricity.

" wrote:

On Oct 7, 9:32*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:30*am, "
wrote:





On Oct 7, 8:09*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

-snip-

It depends on your generator. * Mine is a 5500 watt & does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

That's hard to imagine. *I've yet to see a generator that
does not have a governor that regulates the throttle
based on load. *

-snip-
In the grand scheme of things, if the generator is for
occasional use, I'd much rather have the larger one
because the additional gas usage cost isn't that great
and having the extra capacity is almost always a good
thing.

We're *all* in agreement here-

-snip-
I believe what he is saying is that no matter what the load the
generator is always running at the same rpm.

He never mentioned RPM. He only talked about how much
gas it uses versus load.

There is some relationship there, I thought. I've never paid a
whole lot of attention to gas consumption. Mine holds 7 gallons and
says it will get up to 13 hours from a tankful. That has been
roughly my experience whether I have been running it with 1/2 my house
hooked to it-- or doing the monthly workout with a power tool or
heater hooked to it. There may well be a bit of difference
in consumption--- but it isn't enough so that I notice it.

The RPMs are a constant, though they might dip when a big load is
first applied.


The governor increases the throttle opening when the generator comes
under a load to keep it at the same rpm and output frequency. *For
most gas ones that's 3600 rpm. *Much bigger ones will run at 1800 rpm.

Agree.



To a point the gas consumption is not much more. *But you can get
carried away. *A 20kw generator will be a multiple cylinder engine and
will burn a bit of fuel even with a small load. *Just to keep the
engine turning at 1800 rpm.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree.

We all agree in principal. The only quibble seems to be *how* much
more some generators use while under [*how* much?] load vs. others.

My neighbor, who works on them, says [some?] Hondas are very efficient
when used at less than max load. That might be just paper theory
but if the OP cares, it is worth looking into. [Neighbor has been a
small engine mechanic for 40 years. He doesn't own or sell
generators- but in general he knows his stuff.]

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
We all agree in principal. The only quibble seems to be *how* much
more some generators use while under [*how* much?] load vs. others.

My neighbor, who works on them, says [some?] Hondas are very efficient
when used at less than max load. That might be just paper theory
but if the OP cares, it is worth looking into. [Neighbor has been a
small engine mechanic for 40 years. He doesn't own or sell
generators- but in general he knows his stuff.]

Jim

The simple home generators must turn at 3600 RPM all the time to put out the
120/240 60 hz voltage. It takes so much gas to do this. Then as the load
goes up, so does the fuel usage.
Some Honda generators use inverters. This allows them to cut the speed back
under no or small loads. This will reduce the ammount of fuel used when the
load is small. When the load goes up, so does the speed of the motor.

Where the simple gasoline generators just depend on the 3600 rpm of the
engine, the ones with invertes depend on the electronics to keep the
voltage/frequency constant. The engine can run at any speed that is needed.
While I have not checked it out, it may be that the ones without the
inverters can handle large surge currrents such as starting motors beter.The
inverter will shut down,but the direct drives will try to put out the surge
current for a second or two.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Sam wrote:

Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. Mine is a 5500 watt& does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup.
Hi,
I live up North here in Alberta. Honda is most popular in the arctic
circle. Honda units start best in cold weather.

On Oct 7, 11:48*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Sam *wrote:

Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. * Mine is a 5500 watt& *does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup.

Hi,
I live up North here in Alberta. Honda is most popular in the arctic
circle. Honda units start best in cold weather.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Honda makes some nice generators. But they are not cheap. And up
there you may use them more justifying the price. For the typical USA
resident that just wants one as an emergency power source it's
possible to use a cheaper generator. Unless losing pwoer is a very
common occurence. For me it probably averages out to 10 hours a year
with a pretty big standard deviation.

On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:32:51 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
.. .
We all agree in principal. The only quibble seems to be *how* much
more some generators use while under [*how* much?] load vs. others.

My neighbor, who works on them, says [some?] Hondas are very efficient
when used at less than max load. That might be just paper theory
but if the OP cares, it is worth looking into. [Neighbor has been a
small engine mechanic for 40 years. He doesn't own or sell
generators- but in general he knows his stuff.]

Jim

The simple home generators must turn at 3600 RPM all the time to put out the
120/240 60 hz voltage. It takes so much gas to do this. Then as the load
goes up, so does the fuel usage.
Some Honda generators use inverters. This allows them to cut the speed back
under no or small loads. This will reduce the ammount of fuel used when the
load is small. When the load goes up, so does the speed of the motor.

Where the simple gasoline generators just depend on the 3600 rpm of the
engine, the ones with invertes depend on the electronics to keep the
voltage/frequency constant. The engine can run at any speed that is needed.
While I have not checked it out, it may be that the ones without the
inverters can handle large surge currrents such as starting motors beter.The
inverter will shut down,but the direct drives will try to put out the surge
current for a second or two.



Thanks-
Do you know how much difference that makes in actual use? For
instance- to use the op's numbers;
if you had a 7000W inverter type running 3500W -- vs a 3500W
non-inverter type- how much fuel would each burn?

Jim

On Oct 7, 12:17*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:32:51 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"





wrote:

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
.. .
We all agree in principal. * *The only quibble seems to be *how* much
more some generators use while under [*how* much?] load vs. others.

My neighbor, who works on them, says [some?] Hondas are very efficient
when used at less than max load. * *That might be just paper theory
but if the OP cares, it is worth looking into. * *[Neighbor has been a
small engine mechanic for 40 years. *He doesn't own or sell
generators- but in general he knows his stuff.]

Jim

The simple home generators must turn at 3600 RPM all the time to put out the
120/240 *60 hz voltage. *It takes so much gas to do this. *Then as the load
goes up, so does the fuel usage.
Some Honda generators use inverters. *This allows them to cut the speed back
under no or small loads. *This will reduce the ammount of fuel used when the
load is small. *When the load goes up, so does the speed of the motor.

Where the simple gasoline generators just depend on the 3600 rpm of the
engine, the ones with invertes depend on the electronics to keep the
voltage/frequency constant. *The engine can run at any speed that is needed.
While I have not checked it out, it may be that the ones without the
inverters can handle large surge currrents such as starting motors beter..The
inverter will shut down,but the direct drives will try to put out the surge
current for a second or two.

Thanks-
Do you know how much difference that makes in actual use? * *For
instance- to use the op's numbers;
if you had a 7000W inverter type running 3500W -- vs a 3500W
non-inverter type- how much fuel would each burn?

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would take decades to recover the price difference. I doubt you
can find an inverter style 3kw generator for under 2 grand. I paid
$500 for my generic 4.4kw generator.

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Oct 7, 11:48 am, Tony wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Sam wrote:

Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. Mine is a 5500 watt& does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup.

Hi,
I live up North here in Alberta. Honda is most popular in the arctic
circle. Honda units start best in cold weather.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Honda makes some nice generators. But they are not cheap. And up
there you may use them more justifying the price. For the typical USA
resident that just wants one as an emergency power source it's
possible to use a cheaper generator. Unless losing pwoer is a very
common occurence. For me it probably averages out to 10 hours a year
with a pretty big standard deviation.
Hi,
Whoa! what is going on down there? I moved here from East in the spring
of 1970. Since total time for power outage was less than 1 hours,
longest being 24 minutes when pole burned up by grass fire near my home.
They had to cut the power to replace the pole.

On 10/7/2011 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Oct 7, 10:39 am, Tony wrote:
On 10/7/2011 9:58 AM, wrote:

On Oct 6, 7:54 pm, Sam wrote:
If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

No, you'll just burn down your house because the generator will be
pumping 7000 Watts into the house and the house will only use 3500.
The other 3500 Watts will build up as heat and eventually burst into
flame.

Gawd I hope you aren't serious?

I think his point is that based on physics, if the gas input
did not vary based on load, there would be a hell of a
lot of energy that would have to go somewhere when
a 7000 watt generator is only putting out 3500 watts
as electricity.

But was he serious or joking/being sarcastic?

"Tony Miklos" wrote

No, you'll just burn down your house because the generator will be
pumping 7000 Watts into the house and the house will only use 3500.
The other 3500 Watts will build up as heat and eventually burst into
flame.

Gawd I hope you aren't serious?

But was he serious or joking/being sarcastic?

This is nothing to joke about. Thee are probably millions of watts of
electricity floating about after storms, caused by careless generation.
IMO, the government should regulate this. Congressional hearings are in
order to get to the bottom of this. Bush ignored it, but hopefully, Obama
will take care of the problem.

"jamesgangnc" wrote
Honda makes some nice generators. But they are not cheap. And up
there you may use them more justifying the price. For the typical USA
resident that just wants one as an emergency power source it's
possible to use a cheaper generator. Unless losing pwoer is a very
common occurence. For me it probably averages out to 10 hours a year
with a pretty big standard deviation.

A local appliance dealer was on the radio after a big storm and power outage
here in CT. Seems that many new refrigerators have electronics in them and
the generators were killing them. Maybe those cheap generators are no so
cheap after all.

In my case, total outages are less that 40 hours in 66 years. I've not
bought one yet.

On 10/7/2011 11:17 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
....

Do you know how much difference that makes in actual use? For
instance- to use the op's numbers;
if you had a 7000W inverter type running 3500W -- vs a 3500W
non-inverter type- how much fuel would each burn?
....

Well, here's a (useless since it has no scales; you can tell it's a
marketing tool) graph from Honda showing they're just the cat's meow in
that regard.

Try a ping to Honda referring to the graph and ask for the supporting
data and see how far you get...

Undoubtedly since there's less load (torque applied) it requires less
input power. How much that translates into fuel saving versus load is
anybody's guess.

--

On 10/6/2011 8:42 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:


Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam
Hi,
If cost is not a big concern, I'd always take over sized one than just
right or undersized one in anything.


My Generac 7KW was the smallest standby generator sold in 2006, and I
bought it since it had more than enough power to carry my basic home
needs (furnace, refrigerator, sump pump, most lighting, computers, TVs,
garage door opener, microwave, etc.)

The idling consumption of gas is about 50% lower than the idling
consumption on the next larger model, and thus a partially loaded 7KW
generator consumes considerably less fuel than the same load on a 10 or
15KW unit. This results in a simpler installer (smaller diameter gas
line and no need to upgrade the gas meter) as well as lower operating
costs as well as lower first installation cost by at least $1500 saved
up front.

The 7KW generator is smaller, quieter, and cheaper, and made the most
sense to me. I have never regretted using a minimalistic approach here.

To be fair, the negative side is that I cannot supply enough power to
run my home central a/c, my electric ovens, or my electric clothes
dryer. And I suppose that my single cylinder engine will not last as
long as the 2 cylinder engines used in the more expensive models.

Generac, Kohler, and others have deliberate;y made the transfer switch /
breaker panel for the cheaper models offer fewer circuits. This limits
the number of home devices which can be powered, and some people buy the
larger generators so as to have more powered circuits supported. Careful
rearrangement of branch circuits in your home can overcome some of this
constraint.

I therefore would vote for having LESS rather than more in a standby
generator, and would certainly buy another smaller unit like the 7KW if
I was doing it over again.

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 19:53:35 +0200, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
This is nothing to joke about. Thee are probably millions of watts of
electricity floating about after storms, caused by careless generation.
IMO, the government should regulate this. Congressional hearings are in
order to get to the bottom of this. Bush ignored it, but hopefully,
Obama will take care of the problem.

They should really bottle them, for use during subsequent periods of
electrical drought.

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 08:09:37 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. Mine is a 5500 watt & does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup.

But, as others have pointed out;
1. you won't cut consumption in 1/2.
2. too big is generally better than too small.

I've never heard anyone complain about their generator being too big.
It is not a very efficient beast to begin with. It is for comfort--
more comfort is good.

Jim
Engine speed on a non-inverter generator will always stay steady
(ideally anyways) but at low load the RPM requires significantly less
throttle - and less gas. 50% load will genereally require about 60%
fuel.

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:20:33 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

" wrote:

On Oct 7, 9:32Â*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:30Â*am, "
wrote:





On Oct 7, 8:09Â*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

-snip-

It depends on your generator. Â* Mine is a 5500 watt & does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

That's hard to imagine. Â*I've yet to see a generator that
does not have a governor that regulates the throttle
based on load. Â*

-snip-
In the grand scheme of things, if the generator is for
occasional use, I'd much rather have the larger one
because the additional gas usage cost isn't that great
and having the extra capacity is almost always a good
thing.

We're *all* in agreement here-

-snip-
I believe what he is saying is that no matter what the load the
generator is always running at the same rpm.

He never mentioned RPM. He only talked about how much
gas it uses versus load.

There is some relationship there, I thought. I've never paid a
whole lot of attention to gas consumption. Mine holds 7 gallons and
says it will get up to 13 hours from a tankful. That has been
roughly my experience whether I have been running it with 1/2 my house
hooked to it-- or doing the monthly workout with a power tool or
heater hooked to it. There may well be a bit of difference
in consumption--- but it isn't enough so that I notice it.

The RPMs are a constant, though they might dip when a big load is
first applied.


The governor increases the throttle opening when the generator comes
under a load to keep it at the same rpm and output frequency. Â*For
most gas ones that's 3600 rpm. Â*Much bigger ones will run at 1800 rpm.

Agree.



To a point the gas consumption is not much more. Â*But you can get
carried away. Â*A 20kw generator will be a multiple cylinder engine and
will burn a bit of fuel even with a small load. Â*Just to keep the
engine turning at 1800 rpm.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree.

We all agree in principal. The only quibble seems to be *how* much
more some generators use while under [*how* much?] load vs. others.

My neighbor, who works on them, says [some?] Hondas are very efficient
when used at less than max load. That might be just paper theory
but if the OP cares, it is worth looking into. [Neighbor has been a
small engine mechanic for 40 years. He doesn't own or sell
generators- but in general he knows his stuff.]

Jim
The Honda gensets referred to are INVERTER generators - they are
variable speed units, generating DC which is converted by an inverter
to AC and speed varies directly with load - which means a LOT less
"overhead"

On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 09:06:59 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Oct 7, 11:48Â*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Sam Â*wrote:

Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much gas as
needed?

It depends on your generator. Â* Mine is a 5500 watt& Â*does not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the best 'speed
regulating' setup.

Hi,
I live up North here in Alberta. Honda is most popular in the arctic
circle. Honda units start best in cold weather.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Honda makes some nice generators. But they are not cheap. And up
there you may use them more justifying the price. For the typical USA
resident that just wants one as an emergency power source it's
possible to use a cheaper generator. Unless losing pwoer is a very
common occurence. For me it probably averages out to 10 hours a year
with a pretty big standard deviation.
A cheap generator is false economy because they ONLY fail when you
need them.

If you are using the generator for "convenience" a failure is only an
inconvenience. If using a generator for "emergency use", failure is an
"emergency"

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:17:18 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:32:51 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
. ..
We all agree in principal. The only quibble seems to be *how* much
more some generators use while under [*how* much?] load vs. others.

My neighbor, who works on them, says [some?] Hondas are very efficient
when used at less than max load. That might be just paper theory
but if the OP cares, it is worth looking into. [Neighbor has been a
small engine mechanic for 40 years. He doesn't own or sell
generators- but in general he knows his stuff.]

Jim

The simple home generators must turn at 3600 RPM all the time to put out the
120/240 60 hz voltage. It takes so much gas to do this. Then as the load
goes up, so does the fuel usage.
Some Honda generators use inverters. This allows them to cut the speed back
under no or small loads. This will reduce the ammount of fuel used when the
load is small. When the load goes up, so does the speed of the motor.

Where the simple gasoline generators just depend on the 3600 rpm of the
engine, the ones with invertes depend on the electronics to keep the
voltage/frequency constant. The engine can run at any speed that is needed.
While I have not checked it out, it may be that the ones without the
inverters can handle large surge currrents such as starting motors beter.The
inverter will shut down,but the direct drives will try to put out the surge
current for a second or two.



Thanks-
Do you know how much difference that makes in actual use? For
instance- to use the op's numbers;
if you had a 7000W inverter type running 3500W -- vs a 3500W
non-inverter type- how much fuel would each burn?

Jim
Actually, in actual use a 3500 run at full tilt MAY use as much or
more fuel as a 7000 run at half load. GENERALLY the specific fuel
consumption is a bit better when not run at full load, because even
relatively simple small engine carbs can have full load enrichment
circuits that richen the mixture at full power. Will the differnce be
large? No - in either direction. I'd opt for the 7K unit -
particularly if it is an 1800 rpm unit instead of a 3600. Not too many
1800 rpm units under 5500 watts - and they get more common above 8000
from what I remember.

I DO have a 3500 watt 1800 rpm Onan. It's a "senior citizen" with a
rope start (not recoil) only - so that gives you an idea of it's age.

On Oct 7, 2:01*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote

Honda makes some nice generators. *But they are not cheap. *And up
there you may use them more justifying the price. *For the typical USA
resident that just wants one as an emergency power source it's
possible to use a cheaper generator. *Unless losing pwoer is a very
common occurence. *For me it probably averages out to 10 hours a year
with a pretty big standard deviation.

A local appliance dealer was on the radio after a big storm and power outage
here in CT. Seems that many new refrigerators have electronics in them and
the generators were killing them. *Maybe *those cheap generators are no so
cheap after all.

In my case, total outages are less that 40 hours in 66 years. *I've not
bought one yet.

That's something I think we all worry about. During
the huricane I had a two year old Kitchenaid fridge,
another five year old freezer and this PC all running
on a cheap Chinese generator. All ran fine. But I
did try to limit the potential for damage by not turning
on the big LCD TV or other non-essential electronics.

This got me thinking. What exactly is the source of
the generator issues that kills electronics? The
generator is just a rotating magnetic field moving
inside a fixed wire stator. So what exactly causes
the problems? Is it some kind of surge issue when
big loads turn on and off that creates big voltage
spikes? It's hard to believe it's an overall voltage
issue as you would think most electronics could
tolerate running at 100V or 140V without damage.
Anyone ever look at the waveform
on an oscilloscope?

Wastes gas, because the piston and other gears and such are
larger. That said, not a LOT of gas, and it's nice to have
the extrra amperage available if you need it.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Sam Takoy" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If I buy a generator that's too big for average use for my
house - for
example, I really need a 3500 but get a 7000 instead - and
most of the
time don't draw more than 3500, will I be wasting have the
gas or are
the generators smart enough these days to burn only as much
gas as
needed?

Thanks,

Sam

Dear RBM,
If I buy a oversized 15 passenger panel van to drive me
to work, will it waste gas, compared to my other car which
is a two seater Mini Cooper? I'm using them both to take one
man and a briefcase to work.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"RBM"
wrote in message ...

As the load is decreased, so is the fuel consumption. It's
like keeping
a car at 30 MPH, on a flat level road, it requires less gas
than when
it's going up hill, to maintain the same speed. Typically,
the generator
spec will give you fuel consumption at full load, and half
load

Of course, generators use more or less gas, based on the
load. That's simple common sense.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Oct 7, 8:09 am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:


It depends on your generator. Mine is a 5500 watt & does
not change
a whit when it is running with no load, or a full load.

That's hard to imagine. I've yet to see a generator that
does not have a governor that regulates the throttle
based on load. Let's assume you had gasoline flowing
at a rate to support 5500 watts, but there is no load
connected at all. Where would all that extra energy
go to? If it went to waste heat, it would generate one
hell of a lot of heat. Whether it's a lawn mower, car
or generator, all regulate gas flow to the load.

To the OP, that generator will use a lot less at half load
than at full load. Think of two identical cars except for
different engines going 100mph. One car has a 2L V6, the
other a 5L
V8. The 5L is going to use somewhat more
gas, but while the 2L is maxed out at 100mph, the other car
can go a
lot faster if needed, burning more gas to do it.

In the grand scheme of things, if the generator is for
occasional use, I'd much rather have the larger one
because the additional gas usage cost isn't that great
and having the extra capacity is almost always a good
thing.







My neighbor, who works on Honda's, says Honda's have the
best 'speed
regulating' setup.

But, as others have pointed out;
1. you won't cut consumption in 1/2.
2. too big is generally better than too small.

I've never heard anyone complain about their generator
being too big.
It is not a very efficient beast to begin with. It is for
comfort--
more comfort is good.

Jim

Didn't the OP see the label on the side of the house
"Inflate to 3500 watts" ????

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

No, you'll just burn down your house because the generator
will be
pumping 7000 Watts into the house and the house will only
use 3500.
The other 3500 Watts will build up as heat and eventually
burst into
flame.

One fellow I knew, needed a transformer plug for his
answering machine. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but
the old one was maybe 12 volts, 500 mA. I had one that was
12 volts, 700 mA. He refused to take it, as it would over
load the machine and blow the circuit.

I hope he never plugged a 60 watt light bulb into a 20 amp
branch circuit!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tony Miklos" wrote in message
...


No, you'll just burn down your house because the generator
will be
pumping 7000 Watts into the house and the house will only
use 3500.
The other 3500 Watts will build up as heat and eventually
burst into
flame.

Gawd I hope you aren't serious?

When the Wall Street protestors get finished there, they are
going to the Watts Riots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Riots
And, here is the photo evidence that excess watts burns
houses down.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


But was he serious or joking/being sarcastic?

This is nothing to joke about. Thee are probably millions
of watts of
electricity floating about after storms, caused by careless
generation.
IMO, the government should regulate this. Congressional
hearings are in
order to get to the bottom of this. Bush ignored it, but
hopefully, Obama
will take care of the problem.

That's profound. I will quote that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

If you are using the generator for "convenience" a failure
is only an
inconvenience. If using a generator for "emergency use",
failure is an
"emergency"

On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 08:05:43 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

That's profound. I will quote that.
You have my permission.

Just say "as a smart guy I know once said" -- BG