On 07/17/11 02:44 pm, Smitty Two wrote:

I've asked before and got no good answer. Doesn't ANYBODY make a good
quality hardened phillips driver bit for power drivers for screwing
phillips head deck, etc, screws? These pieces of crap they sell for
$.75-1.00 ea on lumberyard checkout counters, where you grab a
handfull like promo popcorn cuz they're cheap Chinese ****, and most
ppl have settled for this absurd scenario. Why!?

I'd gladly pay $5-10 for a single bit that would last longer than a
hundred screws before it's useless garbage and I gotta reach for new
one like it was consumable sandpaper. Why do ppl pay hundreds for
quality power tools then settle for 88 cent table bits!? It's insane!

I'm not an advocate of cheap tools, but I've not had too much trouble
with power bits. Are you sure your bit matches the screw? Many or most
deck screws are pozidriv, not phillips.

And at many of the "home improvement" stores nobody has ever heard of
Pozidriv, even though one will sometimes find them there in a set of
assorted bits. Look for bits marked "PZ" followed by a number.

Perce

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 16:27:49 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 07/17/11 02:44 pm, Smitty Two wrote:

I've asked before and got no good answer. Doesn't ANYBODY make a good
quality hardened phillips driver bit for power drivers for screwing
phillips head deck, etc, screws? These pieces of crap they sell for
$.75-1.00 ea on lumberyard checkout counters, where you grab a
handfull like promo popcorn cuz they're cheap Chinese ****, and most
ppl have settled for this absurd scenario. Why!?

I'd gladly pay $5-10 for a single bit that would last longer than a
hundred screws before it's useless garbage and I gotta reach for new
one like it was consumable sandpaper. Why do ppl pay hundreds for
quality power tools then settle for 88 cent table bits!? It's insane!

I'm not an advocate of cheap tools, but I've not had too much trouble
with power bits. Are you sure your bit matches the screw? Many or most
deck screws are pozidriv, not phillips.

I've never noticed that. I went down to the garage and found a couple of
boxes of them (GripRite). One wasn't marked anywhere as Pozidriv and had no
such markings on the head (no radials between the slots). The only marking on
the head was an 'H', which I assume meant that it was hardened? The other box
was Torx. ;-)

And at many of the "home improvement" stores nobody has ever heard of
Pozidriv, even though one will sometimes find them there in a set of
assorted bits. Look for bits marked "PZ" followed by a number.

I *have* noticed that. I needed a couple of Pozidriv screwdrivers at work
(production was rounding out the heads). I had to order them over the
Internet. Even the woodworking stores don't seem to carry PZ drivers.

" wrote in
:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 16:27:49 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 07/17/11 02:44 pm, Smitty Two wrote:

I've asked before and got no good answer. Doesn't ANYBODY make a
good quality hardened phillips driver bit for power drivers for
screwing phillips head deck, etc, screws? These pieces of crap
they sell for $.75-1.00 ea on lumberyard checkout counters, where
you grab a handfull like promo popcorn cuz they're cheap Chinese
****, and most ppl have settled for this absurd scenario. Why!?

I'd gladly pay $5-10 for a single bit that would last longer than a
hundred screws before it's useless garbage and I gotta reach for
new one like it was consumable sandpaper. Why do ppl pay hundreds
for quality power tools then settle for 88 cent table bits!? It's
insane!

I'm not an advocate of cheap tools, but I've not had too much
trouble with power bits. Are you sure your bit matches the screw?
Many or most deck screws are pozidriv, not phillips.

I've never noticed that. I went down to the garage and found a couple
of boxes of them (GripRite). One wasn't marked anywhere as Pozidriv
and had no such markings on the head (no radials between the slots).
The only marking on the head was an 'H', which I assume meant that it
was hardened? The other box was Torx. ;-)

And at many of the "home improvement" stores nobody has ever heard of
Pozidriv, even though one will sometimes find them there in a set of
assorted bits. Look for bits marked "PZ" followed by a number.

I *have* noticed that. I needed a couple of Pozidriv screwdrivers at
work (production was rounding out the heads). I had to order them
over the Internet. Even the woodworking stores don't seem to carry PZ
drivers.


Odd,I got 2 of the PZ bits included in Harbor Freight's $1.99
screwdriver,the one with the reddish orange handle and black rubber grip.
PZ-1 and PZ-2,Phillips 1 and 2,and 3 flat blade bits.

for deck screws,I'd rather use square drive.

Phillips screws main problem is camout.
Pozidrive was a little better,but TorX and sq.drive top them.

Many people don't push hard enough when driving Phillips,or don't seat the
bit fully at first,and once the camout has begun,it only gets worse.
and don't tilt the driver off axis.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:05:14 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote:

" wrote in
:

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 16:27:49 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 07/17/11 02:44 pm, Smitty Two wrote:

I've asked before and got no good answer. Doesn't ANYBODY make a
good quality hardened phillips driver bit for power drivers for
screwing phillips head deck, etc, screws? These pieces of crap
they sell for $.75-1.00 ea on lumberyard checkout counters, where
you grab a handfull like promo popcorn cuz they're cheap Chinese
****, and most ppl have settled for this absurd scenario. Why!?

I'd gladly pay $5-10 for a single bit that would last longer than a
hundred screws before it's useless garbage and I gotta reach for
new one like it was consumable sandpaper. Why do ppl pay hundreds
for quality power tools then settle for 88 cent table bits!? It's
insane!

I'm not an advocate of cheap tools, but I've not had too much
trouble with power bits. Are you sure your bit matches the screw?
Many or most deck screws are pozidriv, not phillips.

I've never noticed that. I went down to the garage and found a couple
of boxes of them (GripRite). One wasn't marked anywhere as Pozidriv
and had no such markings on the head (no radials between the slots).
The only marking on the head was an 'H', which I assume meant that it
was hardened? The other box was Torx. ;-)

And at many of the "home improvement" stores nobody has ever heard of
Pozidriv, even though one will sometimes find them there in a set of
assorted bits. Look for bits marked "PZ" followed by a number.

I *have* noticed that. I needed a couple of Pozidriv screwdrivers at
work (production was rounding out the heads). I had to order them
over the Internet. Even the woodworking stores don't seem to carry PZ
drivers.


Odd,I got 2 of the PZ bits included in Harbor Freight's $1.99
screwdriver,the one with the reddish orange handle and black rubber grip.
PZ-1 and PZ-2,Phillips 1 and 2,and 3 flat blade bits.

for deck screws,I'd rather use square drive.

For deck screws, I'd much rather have Torx. That's what I've been buying
lately. They're expensive but so are decks.

Phillips screws main problem is camout.

Since they were designed to cam out (here we go again), that's not surprising.

Pozidrive was a little better,but TorX and sq.drive top them.

Agreed, Pozidriv is good but it can't come close to Torx. I like the way the
bit holds onto the driver, too. It's great for awkward places.

Many people don't push hard enough when driving Phillips,or don't seat the
bit fully at first,and once the camout has begun,it only gets worse.
and don't tilt the driver off axis.

No question, but sometimes it's hard not to. After a few hours in the sun, I
get tired and the driver starts spinning. An impact driver helps a *lot*.

On 7/17/2011 4:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Agreed, Pozidriv is good but it can't come close to Torx. I like the way the
bit holds onto the driver, too. It's great for awkward places.

How does a Torx bit "hold onto" the driver any better or differently
than any other bit with a hex shaft? Did you mean to type that you like
the way that Torx bits hold onto the fastener?

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 16:32:49 -0700, RosemontCrest
wrote:

On 7/17/2011 4:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Agreed, Pozidriv is good but it can't come close to Torx. I like the way the
bit holds onto the driver, too. It's great for awkward places.

How does a Torx bit "hold onto" the driver any better or differently
than any other bit with a hex shaft? Did you mean to type that you like
the way that Torx bits hold onto the fastener?

Yes, sorry. "...the Torx *screw* holds onto the driver"

" wrote in
news
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:05:14 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

Phillips screws main problem is camout.

Since they were designed to cam out (here we go again), that's not
surprising.

Do you REALLY believe Phillips was "designed" to camout?
what gave you that idea?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Jul 18, 9:16*am, Jim Yanik wrote:
" wrote innews
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:05:14 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:
Phillips screws main problem is camout.

Since they were designed to cam out (here we go again), that's not
surprising.

Do you REALLY believe Phillips was "designed" to camout?
what gave you that idea?

I don't know whether it's really true or not, but that seems to be the
accepted story.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip...river#Phillips

Phillips
Phillips drive tool and fastener sizes[3] Tool size Fastener size
0 0–1
1 2–4
2 5–9
3 10–16
4 18–24
Created by Henry F. Phillips, the Phillips screw drive was purposely
designed to cam out when the screw stalled, to prevent the fastener
damaging the work or the head, instead damaging the driver. This was
caused by the relative difficulty in building torque limiting into the
early drivers.

The American Screw Company was responsible for devising a means of
manufacturing the screw, and successfully patented and licensed their
method; other screw makers of the 1930s dismissed the Phillips concept
because it calls for a relatively complex recessed socket shape in the
head of the screw — as distinct from the simple milled slot of a
slotted type screw.

There are five relatively common (and two rather uncommon) Phillips
drive sizes that are different from the screw size; they are
designated 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 (increasing in size).[3][5]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 08:16:02 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote:

" wrote in
news
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:05:14 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

Phillips screws main problem is camout.

Since they were designed to cam out (here we go again), that's not
surprising.

Do you REALLY believe Phillips was "designed" to camout?

Like I said, here we go again...

what gave you that idea?

It was designed to cam out before breaking the screw. DAGS.