I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

On 6/12/2011 10:05 PM, Mikepier wrote:
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

** All kitchen counter top , island, and peninsula outlets require GFCI
protection

On 6/12/2011 9:40 PM, RBM wrote:
On 6/12/2011 10:05 PM, Mikepier wrote:
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

** All kitchen counter top , island, and peninsula outlets require GFCI
protection


The electricians who did my kitchen said that only outlets within a
certain distance from a water source (either two or three feet, IIRC)
had to be GFI. The remaining countertop and island outlets were
standard. The instpector passed it.

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the sink
edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets things
differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:16:04 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the sink
edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets things
differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

But not the refrigerator or freezer, I learned here. No gfci there.
(too likely to trip and ruin the food, and I guess no one shocks
himself from the fridge.)

On 6/12/2011 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the
sink edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets
things differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected

On Jun 13, 6:37*am, RBM wrote:
On 6/12/2011 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:







"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the
sink edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets
things differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK, good to know thanks.

On Jun 13, 6:37*am, RBM wrote:
On 6/12/2011 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:







"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the
sink edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets
things differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one day it will be every outlet in home

On 6/13/2011 5:50 PM, bob haller wrote:
On Jun 13, 6:37 am, wrote:
On 6/12/2011 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:







wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the
sink edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets
things differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one day it will be every outlet in home

No, current code requires AFCI protection for most other outlets in
habitable rooms

On Jun 13, 5:21*pm, RBM wrote:
On 6/13/2011 5:50 PM, bob haller wrote:





On Jun 13, 6:37 am, *wrote:
On 6/12/2011 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

*wrote in message
....
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the
sink edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets
things differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one day it will be every outlet in home

No, current code requires AFCI protection for most other outlets in
habitable rooms- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can those arc fault devices be daisy-chained like GFCI's can be daisy-
chained?

On Jun 13, 9:31*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:21*pm, RBM wrote:





On 6/13/2011 5:50 PM, bob haller wrote:

On Jun 13, 6:37 am, *wrote:
On 6/12/2011 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

*wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the
sink edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets
things differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one day it will be every outlet in home

No, current code requires AFCI protection for most other outlets in
habitable rooms- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can those arc fault devices be daisy-chained like GFCI's can be daisy-
chained?

The AFCI's in my house are really circuit breakers. Somewhat $$
compared to standard breakers.

Joe

On Jun 13, 10:15*pm, Joe wrote:
On Jun 13, 9:31*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:





On Jun 13, 5:21*pm, RBM wrote:

On 6/13/2011 5:50 PM, bob haller wrote:

On Jun 13, 6:37 am, *wrote:
On 6/12/2011 11:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

*wrote in message
...
I am getting to the end of a kitchen reno. This is a galley style
kitchen. On one side of the kitchen is the sink, where I will put GFI
outlets. On the opposite wall there is just cabinets with
counterspace. Am I correct that no GFI outlets are required on the
opposite wall since there is no sink? Is there a distance requirement
where GFI should be located from the sink and does that apply to the
same counter, or overall distance from the sink no matter where you
are standing?

There is a distance factor, but I'm not positive. I think 6' from the
sink edge. Best to check with the local inspector in case he interprets
things differently

You use plural outlets. Only one on a branch has to be gfci, the ones
downstream will be protected. Of course, you want a few circuits in the
kitchen so as not to overload when running a toaster and coffee pot, etc.

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one day it will be every outlet in home

No, current code requires AFCI protection for most other outlets in
habitable rooms- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can those arc fault devices be daisy-chained like GFCI's can be daisy-
chained?

The AFCI's in my house are really circuit breakers. Somewhat $$
compared to standard breakers.

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are they in the "Breaker Box" or are they part of duplex outlets like
gfci's?

On 6/13/2011 11:17 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:15:23 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jun 13, 9:31 pm, "hr(bob)
wrote:
On Jun 13, 5:21 pm, wrote:





On 6/13/2011 5:50 PM, bob haller wrote:

On Jun 13, 6:37 am, wrote:

** When GFCI protection was first required for kitchen counter outlets,
it was for outlets within six feet of the sink. It's since evolved into
requiring all counter outlets to be protected- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

one day it will be every outlet in home

No, current code requires AFCI protection for most other outlets in
habitable rooms- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can those arc fault devices be daisy-chained like GFCI's can be daisy-
chained?

I don't see why they couldn't


The AFCI's in my house are really circuit breakers. Somewhat $$
compared to standard breakers.

Joe

There is a mythical "device" style AFCI but like unicorns, big foot
and an honest politician, nobody has really seen one.
Breakers are what you get.

Nice.
I did see a picture of an AFCI receptacle (which didn't then exist) in a
2011 code changes book.

Starting 2014, in areas where new circuits have to be AFCI protected,
replacement receptacles will have to be AFCI protected. Can be by AFCI
breakers or "mythical" AFCI receptacles, or downstream from AFCI
receptacles.

Starting in the 2011 NEC, extensions to circuits in areas where AFCI
protection for new circuits is required, the extensions have to be AFCI
protected. Can be by AFCI breakers or being downstream from a "mythical"
AFCI receptacle. (I remembered this one was delayed too, but it isn't.)

You are doubtless aware of these, but others may not be.

Looks like the code panel wants a retro requirement that old circuits be
AFCI protected and this is all they could do. Would be nice if they
didn't want "mythical devices".

Any rumors on the ultimate intent - like all 15/20A circuits everywhere
be AFCI protected?

The code still would only allow you to have this device
connected to the panel with metal conduit or "steel armored" MC/AC
cable.

True when used to protect a new circuit (as the equivalent of an AFCI
breaker).

If used as above as a replacement receptacle, or to protect circuit
extensions, or to protect existing downstream receptacles they wouldn't
need the metal protection. Until maybe the next NEC.

--
bud--