Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

On Jun 6, 8:58*pm, Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

Read the boxes, buy, and then return to store if the claims are not
met,

On 6/6/2011 10:00 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Jun 6, 8:58 pm, wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.
Read the boxes, buy, and then return to store if the claims are not
met,
Thanks. I've already done that. Now I am asking others to spare myself a
lot of wasted time, gasoline, and frustration. Perhaps there are others
who know the answer...........

hr(bob) wrote:

Read the boxes, buy, and then return to store if the claims are not
met,

That's helpful, not.

On 6/6/11 7:58 PM, Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces
full intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to
find an indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to
attain full brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or
true. General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as
"instant on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm
up period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

GE is supposed to be working on a hybrid CFL that would initially turn
on a halogen bulb, then switch to the CFL after it warms up. It does
not appear to be available yet.See their press release he
http://www.genewscenter.com/Press-Re...2011-2bf3.aspx

(Thanks to Wikipedia for info)

On 6/6/2011 10:28 PM, Reed wrote:
On 6/6/11 7:58 PM, Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces
full intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to
find an indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to
attain full brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or
true. General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as
"instant on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm
up period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

GE is supposed to be working on a hybrid CFL that would initially turn
on a halogen bulb, then switch to the CFL after it warms up. It does
not appear to be available yet.See their press release he
http://www.genewscenter.com/Press-Re...2011-2bf3.aspx


(Thanks to Wikipedia for info)

Thanks Reed !! What a SUPERB reply !!!

I did some further research based on your outstanding tip, and sure
enough, the new GE hybrid bulbs are just now showing up in the retail
stores with precisely what I am looking for.

Here is one of several other articles describing the roll-out of the
new, very clever product:

http://pressroom.geconsumerproducts....id-199673.aspx

Thank you VERY MUCH!

On 6/6/2011 10:57 PM, Smarty wrote:
On 6/6/2011 10:28 PM, Reed wrote:
On 6/6/11 7:58 PM, Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces
full intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to
find an indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to
attain full brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or
true. General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as
"instant on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm
up period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

GE is supposed to be working on a hybrid CFL that would initially
turn on a halogen bulb, then switch to the CFL after it warms up. It
does not appear to be available yet.See their press release he
http://www.genewscenter.com/Press-Re...2011-2bf3.aspx


(Thanks to Wikipedia for info)

Thanks Reed !! What a SUPERB reply !!!

I did some further research based on your outstanding tip, and sure
enough, the new GE hybrid bulbs are just now showing up in the retail
stores with precisely what I am looking for.

Here is one of several other articles describing the roll-out of the
new, very clever product:

http://pressroom.geconsumerproducts....id-199673.aspx


Thank you VERY MUCH!




Actual photos:
http://www.genewscenter.com/Resource...bulbs-e90.aspx

In article , Smarty wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

I've read the rest of the thread and notice the hybrid GE bulb recommended to
you. I'm just guessing that it's going to be pretty expensive so, why do you
need such a quick "warm up"? FWIW I recently bought some 40 watt equivalent LEDs
at Lowe's that accomplish everything you want, will last longer and give a nicer
light than the CFL's I have. They were on sale for about $10 but they are
available now (and don't have any mercury in them)

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:54:22 -0700, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

In article , Smarty wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

I've read the rest of the thread and notice the hybrid GE bulb recommended to
you. I'm just guessing that it's going to be pretty expensive so, why do you
need such a quick "warm up"? FWIW I recently bought some 40 watt equivalent LEDs
at Lowe's that accomplish everything you want, will last longer and give a nicer
light than the CFL's I have. They were on sale for about $10 but they are
available now (and don't have any mercury in them)

LED's are very directional. They will not be substitutes for incandescent
or CFL's in any but a few specialized and directional situations.

LED's are very directional. They will not
be substitutes for incandescent or CFL's
in any but a few specialized and
directional situations.

I have an LED bulb in a floor lamp and it spreads the light just like an
incandescent bulb.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

On Jun 7, 1:56*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:54:22 -0700, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In article , Smarty wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

I've read the rest of the thread and notice the hybrid GE bulb recommended to
you. I'm just guessing that it's going to be pretty expensive so, why do you
need such a quick "warm up"? FWIW I recently bought some 40 watt equivalent LEDs
at Lowe's that accomplish everything you want, will last longer and give a nicer
light than the CFL's I have. They were on sale for about $10 but they are
available now (and don't have any mercury in them)

LED's are very directional. They will not be substitutes for incandescent
or CFL's in any but a few specialized and directional situations.

Most situations are directional.

Greg

On 6/6/2011 11:54 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
In , wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.
I've read the rest of the thread and notice the hybrid GE bulb recommended to
you. I'm just guessing that it's going to be pretty expensive so, why do you
need such a quick "warm up"? FWIW I recently bought some 40 watt equivalent LEDs
at Lowe's that accomplish everything you want, will last longer and give a nicer
light than the CFL's I have. They were on sale for about $10 but they are
available now (and don't have any mercury in them)
Thanks Mal,

The lighting is intended for a dark hallway and staircase being used by
elderly people with limited eyesight.

The warm up time of so-called "instant" CFLs I have tried is several
minutes, leaving the areas with insufficient light until the warm-up
period elapses.

The bulbs I will be using are indeed expensive at $5.99 to $9.99 MSRP
based on wattage. Perhaps LEDs would be better, if they can put out
similar light output (approx 750 lumens), cost about the same, and last
a lot longer.

Thanks for the suggestion and I will certainly check it out. The last
time I looked, the LED bulbs were way more expensive, but it has been
quite a while since I compared prices.

On Jun 7, 12:11*pm, Smarty wrote:
On 6/6/2011 11:54 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:



In , *wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.
I've read the rest of the thread and notice the hybrid GE bulb recommended to
you. I'm just guessing that it's going to be pretty expensive so, why do you
need such a quick "warm up"? FWIW I recently bought some 40 watt equivalent LEDs
at Lowe's that accomplish everything you want, will last longer and give a nicer
light than the CFL's I have. They were on sale for about $10 but they are
available now (and don't have any mercury in them)

Thanks Mal,

The lighting is intended for a dark hallway and staircase being used by
elderly people with limited eyesight.

The warm up time of so-called "instant" CFLs I have tried is several
minutes, leaving the areas with insufficient light until the warm-up
period elapses.

The bulbs I will be using are indeed expensive at $5.99 to $9.99 MSRP
based on wattage. Perhaps LEDs would be better, if they can put out
similar light output (approx 750 lumens), cost about the same, and last
a lot longer.

Thanks for the suggestion and I will certainly check it out. The last
time I looked, the LED bulbs were way more expensive, but it has been
quite a while since I compared prices.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The thing that could solve this headache for all of us is for the
industry
to just get together and come up with some consistent metrics that
they would all use. One of the most important would be the time
to reach say 80% of full output. Otherwise, as you've noted, instant
on can mean anything. I've had the same problems. Some do
come on very fast, while others can take a long time.

And then there is the problem that for some applications CFL
light is just unacceptable due to the quality of the light. I
would not be surprised to see the laws changed when folks
realize big govt is once again ramming crap down everyone's
throats.

On Jun 7, 12:11*pm, Smarty wrote:
On 6/6/2011 11:54 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:



In , *wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.
I've read the rest of the thread and notice the hybrid GE bulb recommended to
you. I'm just guessing that it's going to be pretty expensive so, why do you
need such a quick "warm up"? FWIW I recently bought some 40 watt equivalent LEDs
at Lowe's that accomplish everything you want, will last longer and give a nicer
light than the CFL's I have. They were on sale for about $10 but they are
available now (and don't have any mercury in them)

Thanks Mal,

The lighting is intended for a dark hallway and staircase being used by
elderly people with limited eyesight.

The warm up time of so-called "instant" CFLs I have tried is several
minutes, leaving the areas with insufficient light until the warm-up
period elapses.

The bulbs I will be using are indeed expensive at $5.99 to $9.99 MSRP
based on wattage. Perhaps LEDs would be better, if they can put out
similar light output (approx 750 lumens), cost about the same, and last
a lot longer.

Thanks for the suggestion and I will certainly check it out. The last
time I looked, the LED bulbs were way more expensive, but it has been
quite a while since I compared prices.

I leave some CFLsI just leave on all the time. I used to leave a
hallway light on all the time. It didn't have anything to do with wait
time, it was about having to turn it off.

I installed two ceiling lamps from THD and to my horror found it came
with bayonet base, which cost more when replacing. This bathroom lamps
need replaced, one come on red and takes forever to illuminate.

Greg

Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

Would be interesting to know your application that requires such a lamp.
LIfe has lots of other things to be annoyed with. Why pick this one?

FWIW, I've seen significant differences in startup time for the SAME brand
of lamp from different batches. I'd guess the OEM's just buy from
the current low-price leader.
When I buy CFLs, I take along a socket and plug them into the
outlet by the back door at home depot.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 00:22:41 -0700, mike wrote:

Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

Would be interesting to know your application that requires such a lamp.
LIfe has lots of other things to be annoyed with. Why pick this one?

FWIW, I've seen significant differences in startup time for the SAME brand
of lamp from different batches. I'd guess the OEM's just buy from
the current low-price leader.
When I buy CFLs, I take along a socket and plug them into the
outlet by the back door at home depot.

Very good idea but what do ou do when they are in a clam shell, the
bubbble pack that is welded shut?

On Jun 7, 1:54*am, mm wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 00:22:41 -0700, mike wrote:
Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

Would be interesting to know your application that requires such a lamp.
LIfe has lots of other things to be annoyed with. *Why pick this one?

FWIW, I've seen significant differences in startup time for the SAME brand
of lamp from different batches. *I'd guess the OEM's just buy from
the current low-price leader.
When I buy CFLs, I take along a socket and plug them into the
outlet by the back door at home depot.

Very good idea but what do ou do when they are in a clam shell, the
bubbble pack that is welded shut?

==
Probably rips it off with his teeth. If I worked in a store where
customers wanted to "try out" light bulbs before buying them I would
call security and have them escorted out. Never heard of such an idiot
thing before.
==

Roy wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:54 am, mm wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 00:22:41 -0700, mike wrote:
Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.
I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.
I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.
Thanks for any advice.
Would be interesting to know your application that requires such a lamp.
LIfe has lots of other things to be annoyed with. Why pick this one?
FWIW, I've seen significant differences in startup time for the SAME brand
of lamp from different batches. I'd guess the OEM's just buy from
the current low-price leader.
When I buy CFLs, I take along a socket and plug them into the
outlet by the back door at home depot.
Very good idea but what do ou do when they are in a clam shell, the
bubbble pack that is welded shut?

==
Probably rips it off with his teeth. If I worked in a store where
customers wanted to "try out" light bulbs before buying them I would
call security and have them escorted out. Never heard of such an idiot
thing before.
==
Sounds like you'd be a great "customer service trainer". I think I've
been in some of your stores.

If you want cheap bulbs, you're probably watching for sales that happen
on "bulk packages". Anything over two bulbs often comes in an easily
openable
cardboard container.

YOU should never do anything YOU find unreasonable.

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:58:20 -0400, Smarty wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I don't use a light meter, but it seems to me the last batch from Home
Depot do that. And they were down to 48 or 60 or 80 cents a piece
iirc for 60 and 100 watts. This was 5 months ago and 40 and 75 watt
equivalents were still expensive for some reason.

They are called Ecosmart soft white, in bubble packs of 4, with green
and white paper inside.

And not only tthat, they're smaller than they used to be and fit in
the 4?" globes that some of my light fixtures have.


I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

Smarty wrote:

Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

I use pretty much all CFLs around my house and with the exception of
some encapsulated decorative globe types in a light bar, none of them
show any notable warm up period after a few hours of use. There is
perhaps a 1/4 second start time from switch on, but they are at 80%+
brightness immediately.

I do find that most CFLs do require a few hours burn in time, presumably
to fully vaporize and distribute the tiny amount of mercury, before they
settle into the no/negligable warm up state.

Most of the CFLs I use are basic 60W equiv models, with some larger
100W+ equives in a few applications. Also, unlike what some people
claim, I have very few failures of CFLs and when they do fail it's
usually after a number of years of daily use.

On Jun 6, 9:58*pm, Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

So what kind of cockamaime, contrived logic is behind this
requirement?

The reason I ask is to not necessarily be hurtful, but to see if
perhaps there is some other solution to your problem. People come in
this newsgroup on a regular basis asking for some piece of Rube
Goldberg unconventional uninvented technology to solve a problem that
a different piece of common technology would solve with a lot less
hassle.

On 6/7/2011 1:29 PM, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:58 pm, wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.
So what kind of cockamaime, contrived logic is behind this
requirement?

The reason I ask is to not necessarily be hurtful, but to see if
perhaps there is some other solution to your problem. People come in
this newsgroup on a regular basis asking for some piece of Rube
Goldberg unconventional uninvented technology to solve a problem that
a different piece of common technology would solve with a lot less
hassle.
As I posted earlier in this thread, my question arises from my attempt
to provide bright hallway and staircase access for elderly people with
diminished eyesight. The original 100 watt incandescent bulbs are only
switched on briefly, and CFLs take too long to get adequately bright.

As it turns out, the recommendation from "Mal" was 100% correct. I went
to Lowes today, found the recently introduced General Electric "hybrid
technology" bulbs he described, and took some home for testing.

They work superbly well.

The two part hybrid design automatically turns on both the CFL and
halogen filament to provide full intensity output upon start-up. As the
CFL warms up, the halogen bulb is extinguished, and within maybe a
minute or so the lamp is 100% CFL.

There is a small color shift as the color temperature shifts from warmer
(approx 2500 degrees Kelvin) to a cooler, bluer CFL temperature as the
halogen lamp is replaced by the CFL output. The effect is not something
you would normally see unless you are looking for it.

The 75 watt equivalent version of the bulb consumes 20 watts, produces
over 1200 lumens output, is warrantied for 5 years for free replacement,
and is estimated to last for 7.3 years in average service. They are sold
at Lowes for $13 for two bulbs.

This is an ideal solution for me, saving a lot of watts, maintaining
true "instant on", and having (supposedly) a long, warrantied life
expectancy.

The nearest LED equivalent at Lowes was being offered on "clearance" for
$29 for 1 bulb. Much longer predicted life but considerably lower
lumens, 840 to be exact.

I am extremely impressed with this new, dual hybrid design from a
lighting performance point of view. Time will tell if their MTBF /
failure / life expectancy prediction holds.

I personally trust that GE will stand behind their warranty and are
unlikely to be exaggerating their claims. On the other hand, I have
several examples of "instant on" CFLs from Sylvania, Phillips, etc.
which are not in any way delivering anywhere near full output until
literally a minute or two after they are switched on. This GE is in a
class by itself.

Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent
on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.

In article , Smarty wrote:

As it turns out, the recommendation from "Mal" was 100% correct. I went
to Lowes today, found the recently introduced General Electric "hybrid
technology" bulbs he described, and took some home for testing.

Thanks for the props, but I was the one who suggested the LED's. Sounds like you
got your solution and at a reasonable price. FWIW, I still prefer the light from
the LED's over that of the CFL's and I'm sure they will live longer than I do

On Jun 7, 8:10*pm, Smarty wrote:
On 6/7/2011 1:29 PM, wrote: On Jun 6, 9:58 pm, *wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.
So what kind of cockamaime, contrived logic is behind this
requirement?

The reason I ask is to not necessarily be hurtful, but to see if
perhaps there is some other solution to your problem. People come in
this newsgroup on a regular basis asking for some piece of Rube
Goldberg unconventional uninvented technology to solve a problem that
a different piece of common technology would solve with a lot less
hassle.

As I posted earlier in this thread, my question arises from my attempt
to provide bright hallway and staircase access for elderly people with
diminished eyesight. The original 100 watt incandescent bulbs are only
switched on briefly, and CFLs take too long to get adequately bright.

As it turns out, the recommendation from "Mal" was 100% correct. I went
to Lowes today, found the recently introduced General Electric "hybrid
technology" bulbs he described, and took some home for testing.

They work superbly well.

The two part hybrid design automatically turns on both the CFL and
halogen filament to provide full intensity output upon start-up. As the
CFL warms up, the halogen bulb is extinguished, and within maybe a
minute or so the lamp is 100% CFL.

There is a small color shift as the color temperature shifts from warmer
(approx 2500 degrees Kelvin) to a cooler, bluer CFL temperature as the
halogen lamp is replaced by the CFL output. The effect is not something
you would normally see unless you are looking for it.

The 75 watt equivalent version of the bulb consumes 20 watts, produces
over 1200 lumens output, is warrantied for 5 years for free replacement,
and is estimated to last for 7.3 years in average service. They are sold
at Lowes for $13 for two bulbs.

This is an ideal solution for me, saving a lot of watts, maintaining
true "instant on", and having (supposedly) a long, warrantied life
expectancy.

The nearest LED equivalent at Lowes was being offered on "clearance" for
$29 for 1 bulb. Much longer predicted life but considerably lower
lumens, 840 to be exact.

I am extremely impressed with this new, dual hybrid design from a
lighting performance point of view. Time will tell if their MTBF /
failure / life expectancy prediction holds.

I personally trust that GE will stand behind their warranty and are
unlikely to be exaggerating their claims. On the other hand, I have
several examples of "instant on" CFLs from Sylvania, Phillips, etc.
which are not in any way delivering anywhere near full output until
literally a minute or two after they are switched on. This GE is in a
class by itself.

Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent
on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.

But the savings in electricity they talk about are when the bulbs are
on for a long time. If, as you imply, the bulbs are only on for a
short time, you are essentially just using the halogen portion of the
bulb, which is nowhere as efficient as the CFL portion of the bulb.
So, your savings are much much less than stated if the bulbs are only
on for short intervals....

"Smarty" wrote in message
...
On 6/7/2011 1:29 PM, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:58 pm, wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.
So what kind of cockamaime, contrived logic is behind this
requirement?

The reason I ask is to not necessarily be hurtful, but to see if
perhaps there is some other solution to your problem. People come in
this newsgroup on a regular basis asking for some piece of Rube
Goldberg unconventional uninvented technology to solve a problem that
a different piece of common technology would solve with a lot less
hassle.
As I posted earlier in this thread, my question arises from my attempt
to provide bright hallway and staircase access for elderly people with
diminished eyesight. The original 100 watt incandescent bulbs are only
switched on briefly, and CFLs take too long to get adequately bright.

As it turns out, the recommendation from "Mal" was 100% correct. I went
to Lowes today, found the recently introduced General Electric "hybrid
technology" bulbs he described, and took some home for testing.

They work superbly well.

The two part hybrid design automatically turns on both the CFL and
halogen filament to provide full intensity output upon start-up. As the
CFL warms up, the halogen bulb is extinguished, and within maybe a
minute or so the lamp is 100% CFL.

There is a small color shift as the color temperature shifts from warmer
(approx 2500 degrees Kelvin) to a cooler, bluer CFL temperature as the
halogen lamp is replaced by the CFL output. The effect is not something
you would normally see unless you are looking for it.

The 75 watt equivalent version of the bulb consumes 20 watts, produces
over 1200 lumens output, is warrantied for 5 years for free replacement,
and is estimated to last for 7.3 years in average service. They are sold
at Lowes for $13 for two bulbs.

This is an ideal solution for me, saving a lot of watts, maintaining
true "instant on", and having (supposedly) a long, warrantied life
expectancy.

The nearest LED equivalent at Lowes was being offered on "clearance" for
$29 for 1 bulb. Much longer predicted life but considerably lower
lumens, 840 to be exact.

I am extremely impressed with this new, dual hybrid design from a
lighting performance point of view. Time will tell if their MTBF /
failure / life expectancy prediction holds.

I personally trust that GE will stand behind their warranty and are
unlikely to be exaggerating their claims. On the other hand, I have
several examples of "instant on" CFLs from Sylvania, Phillips, etc.
which are not in any way delivering anywhere near full output until
literally a minute or two after they are switched on. This GE is in a
class by itself.

Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent
on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.

That's great news. I am about to order one from Amazon to see how they
interact with my X-10 home automation system. CFL bulbs have been a serious
problem for X-10 users because their electronic profile is so different from
tungsten incandescent bulbs, the kind X-10 was designed around. Of course,
Amazon's price is double that of Lowe's, but it might be weeks before I got
up that way and I wanted to see how X-10 controller modules reacted to the
lightbulb.

I'm hoping these will eliminate the terrible problem of CFL's turning
themselves back on because of how they work with the slight current trickle
used in X-10 circuits to sense local control of the switch. I've got my
fingers crossed. It could be the miracle bulb for both of us!

--
Bobby G.

On 6/8/2011 10:34 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 6/7/2011 1:29 PM, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:58 pm, wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.
So what kind of cockamaime, contrived logic is behind this
requirement?

The reason I ask is to not necessarily be hurtful, but to see if
perhaps there is some other solution to your problem. People come in
this newsgroup on a regular basis asking for some piece of Rube
Goldberg unconventional uninvented technology to solve a problem that
a different piece of common technology would solve with a lot less
hassle.
As I posted earlier in this thread, my question arises from my attempt
to provide bright hallway and staircase access for elderly people with
diminished eyesight. The original 100 watt incandescent bulbs are only
switched on briefly, and CFLs take too long to get adequately bright.

As it turns out, the recommendation from "Mal" was 100% correct. I went
to Lowes today, found the recently introduced General Electric "hybrid
technology" bulbs he described, and took some home for testing.

They work superbly well.

The two part hybrid design automatically turns on both the CFL and
halogen filament to provide full intensity output upon start-up. As the
CFL warms up, the halogen bulb is extinguished, and within maybe a
minute or so the lamp is 100% CFL.

There is a small color shift as the color temperature shifts from warmer
(approx 2500 degrees Kelvin) to a cooler, bluer CFL temperature as the
halogen lamp is replaced by the CFL output. The effect is not something
you would normally see unless you are looking for it.

The 75 watt equivalent version of the bulb consumes 20 watts, produces
over 1200 lumens output, is warrantied for 5 years for free replacement,
and is estimated to last for 7.3 years in average service. They are sold
at Lowes for $13 for two bulbs.

This is an ideal solution for me, saving a lot of watts, maintaining
true "instant on", and having (supposedly) a long, warrantied life
expectancy.

The nearest LED equivalent at Lowes was being offered on "clearance" for
$29 for 1 bulb. Much longer predicted life but considerably lower
lumens, 840 to be exact.

I am extremely impressed with this new, dual hybrid design from a
lighting performance point of view. Time will tell if their MTBF /
failure / life expectancy prediction holds.

I personally trust that GE will stand behind their warranty and are
unlikely to be exaggerating their claims. On the other hand, I have
several examples of "instant on" CFLs from Sylvania, Phillips, etc.
which are not in any way delivering anywhere near full output until
literally a minute or two after they are switched on. This GE is in a
class by itself.

Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent
on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.

That's great news. I am about to order one from Amazon to see how they
interact with my X-10 home automation system. CFL bulbs have been a serious
problem for X-10 users because their electronic profile is so different from
tungsten incandescent bulbs, the kind X-10 was designed around. Of course,
Amazon's price is double that of Lowe's, but it might be weeks before I got
up that way and I wanted to see how X-10 controller modules reacted to the
lightbulb.

I'm hoping these will eliminate the terrible problem of CFL's turning
themselves back on because of how they work with the slight current trickle
used in X-10 circuits to sense local control of the switch. I've got my
fingers crossed. It could be the miracle bulb for both of us!

--
Bobby G.


I modified lamp modules in 2 different ways to make them silent
appliance modules. They both work with CFLs with no problems. One
of the mods uses a solid state relay and doesn't retain the X10
local on feature, which is ok with me. This mod will switch up to 5
amps. Here's a link http://mysite.verizon.net/res1fl57/id11.html
The other mod is a little more complicated as you have to add a deal
roach (upside down IC), etc. It does retain the local on, but in my
case, I disconnected that lead because I know the small current
which it squirts into the lamp would probably cause CFLs or even LED
Christmas lights some problems. Here's a link
http://idobartana.com/hakb/silent_local.htm I think just removing
the 330K resistor removes the local sense current. But both work
very well.

"Art Todesco" wrote in message
...
On 6/8/2011 10:34 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

I'm hoping these will eliminate the terrible problem of CFL's turning
themselves back on because of how they work with the slight current
trickle
used in X-10 circuits to sense local control of the switch. I've got my
fingers crossed. It could be the miracle bulb for both of us!

--
Bobby G.


I modified lamp modules in 2 different ways to make them silent
appliance modules. They both work with CFLs with no problems. One
of the mods uses a solid state relay and doesn't retain the X10
local on feature, which is ok with me. This mod will switch up to 5
amps. Here's a link http://mysite.verizon.net/res1fl57/id11.html
The other mod is a little more complicated as you have to add a deal
roach (upside down IC), etc. It does retain the local on, but in my

"Deal roach?" Sounds like a three-position switch based on the Monty "Hall"
effect." (-"

I assume from the context that should be "dead roach" because the pins of
the IC are face up like a dead bug. Guys like you and Dan Lanciani are
better technicians than I'll ever be. I've seen some of the added IC
modifications and while they are neat, and while I certainly can think of
some mods that need doing, it's not in my skill set. Palmpads, in
particular, should be prevented from sending more than 10 seconds worth of
commands so that when a button gets stuck, it doesn't jam the RF until you
find the miscreant transmitter.

case, I disconnected that lead because I know the small current
which it squirts into the lamp would probably cause CFLs or even LED
Christmas lights some problems. Here's a link
http://idobartana.com/hakb/silent_local.htm I think just removing
the 330K resistor removes the local sense current. But both work
very well.

I've done a number of the mods, some work, some don't. Most are based on
the older X-10 module designs. I've sadly found that one of the "hacks"
kills local control but NOT current leakage. X-10 definitely should create
a CFL-friendly module with either a slide switch or a programmable way to
defeat "local on/current sense." I'm pretty reluctant to modify these
modules (or anything else that's line powered) because if a fire starts for
any reason, I've left myself exposed to an investigator citing my mods as
the problem (however slim).

In any event, some of the appliance modules I have (RCA, Magnavox, Stanley
and other gotten at deep discounts when they abandoned the lines) don't have
circuits that match the ones shown in the mods. I'll have to search again
to see if the newer circuit boards have been researched and modified, too.
I hate disabling local sense - so much so I'll put a small resistive load on
the same circuit to absorb the trickle current. Some of the newer, larger
wattage CFL's seem to be able to relight themselves even with other
electrical devices plugged into the same controller module. It's a problem
the X-10 has to fix on their end with a module more compatible with CFLs.
The new Federal efficiency law may force their hand, at least if they don't
want to answer the same question every day on their support lines.

Plus, it's a pain in the butt to do anymore than open and snip the diode
(the fix that doesn't work!) or cap a EagleEye CDS cell with a piece of heat
shrink tubing (does work to control the +1 beast. In looking over the X-10
site for a CFL friendly module I see that finally, X-10 has made the +1 code
activation a programmable selection and not one that had to be cured with
heat shrink tubing. Maybe they've got something in the works because I'd
bet half the tech calls they receive are related to fluorescent lighting,
one way or another. Thanks for your input, Art.

--
Bobby G.

On 6/8/2011 10:34 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 6/7/2011 1:29 PM, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:58 pm, wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.
So what kind of cockamaime, contrived logic is behind this
requirement?

The reason I ask is to not necessarily be hurtful, but to see if
perhaps there is some other solution to your problem. People come in
this newsgroup on a regular basis asking for some piece of Rube
Goldberg unconventional uninvented technology to solve a problem that
a different piece of common technology would solve with a lot less
hassle.
As I posted earlier in this thread, my question arises from my attempt
to provide bright hallway and staircase access for elderly people with
diminished eyesight. The original 100 watt incandescent bulbs are only
switched on briefly, and CFLs take too long to get adequately bright.

As it turns out, the recommendation from "Mal" was 100% correct. I went
to Lowes today, found the recently introduced General Electric "hybrid
technology" bulbs he described, and took some home for testing.

They work superbly well.

The two part hybrid design automatically turns on both the CFL and
halogen filament to provide full intensity output upon start-up. As the
CFL warms up, the halogen bulb is extinguished, and within maybe a
minute or so the lamp is 100% CFL.

There is a small color shift as the color temperature shifts from warmer
(approx 2500 degrees Kelvin) to a cooler, bluer CFL temperature as the
halogen lamp is replaced by the CFL output. The effect is not something
you would normally see unless you are looking for it.

The 75 watt equivalent version of the bulb consumes 20 watts, produces
over 1200 lumens output, is warrantied for 5 years for free replacement,
and is estimated to last for 7.3 years in average service. They are sold
at Lowes for $13 for two bulbs.

This is an ideal solution for me, saving a lot of watts, maintaining
true "instant on", and having (supposedly) a long, warrantied life
expectancy.

The nearest LED equivalent at Lowes was being offered on "clearance" for
$29 for 1 bulb. Much longer predicted life but considerably lower
lumens, 840 to be exact.

I am extremely impressed with this new, dual hybrid design from a
lighting performance point of view. Time will tell if their MTBF /
failure / life expectancy prediction holds.

I personally trust that GE will stand behind their warranty and are
unlikely to be exaggerating their claims. On the other hand, I have
several examples of "instant on" CFLs from Sylvania, Phillips, etc.
which are not in any way delivering anywhere near full output until
literally a minute or two after they are switched on. This GE is in a
class by itself.

Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent
on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.
That's great news. I am about to order one from Amazon to see how they
interact with my X-10 home automation system. CFL bulbs have been a serious
problem for X-10 users because their electronic profile is so different from
tungsten incandescent bulbs, the kind X-10 was designed around. Of course,
Amazon's price is double that of Lowe's, but it might be weeks before I got
up that way and I wanted to see how X-10 controller modules reacted to the
lightbulb.

I'm hoping these will eliminate the terrible problem of CFL's turning
themselves back on because of how they work with the slight current trickle
used in X-10 circuits to sense local control of the switch. I've got my
fingers crossed. It could be the miracle bulb for both of us!

--
Bobby G.


Bobby,

I had a very elaborate X-10 set-up in my home, with many devices being
controlled by remote switches, and most of the lighting controlled by
both the dimmable and non-dimmable wall switches. I had a couple dozen
devices in total, and a bridge to ensure that both of my 110 volt feeds
were coupled to pass the comparatively weak control signals from some
home branch circuits to another. The system worked pretty reliably for
many years.

Once I switched to CFLs as well as standard fluorescent tubes, my X-10
system became totally unreliable with all sorts of false triggers.
Putting a scope on my AC line made it instantly obvious that the EMI
created by these lighting devices was much stronger than the X-10
signals. Furthermore, the X-10 code length was too short to ensure no
false triggering, given the noise environment.

I disconnected all of my X-10 stuff but have considered going to a newer
Zigby or other RF controlled local are net approach with supervised
switches capable of reporting their status back to the controller. I
have had terrible luck with any AC carrier line devices, including some
CCTV video cameras from Logitech and other devices which try to
piggy-back on the AC lines once I went to CFLs and flouresents.

The noise levels are just overwhelming for these sensitive carrier
devices like X-10. And the signaling was never designed to be robust
enough to cope with the noisy channel either. They would need to do
longer codes sent more redundantly to get anywhere near acceptable behavior.

On 6/9/2011 5:07 PM, Smarty wrote:


I had a very elaborate X-10 set-up in my home, with many devices
being controlled by remote switches, and most of the lighting
controlled by both the dimmable and non-dimmable wall switches. I
had a couple dozen devices in total, and a bridge to ensure that
both of my 110 volt feeds were coupled to pass the comparatively
weak control signals from some home branch circuits to another. The
system worked pretty reliably for many years.

Once I switched to CFLs as well as standard fluorescent tubes, my
X-10 system became totally unreliable with all sorts of false
triggers. Putting a scope on my AC line made it instantly obvious
that the EMI created by these lighting devices was much stronger
than the X-10 signals. Furthermore, the X-10 code length was too
short to ensure no false triggering, given the noise environment.

I disconnected all of my X-10 stuff but have considered going to a
newer Zigby or other RF controlled local are net approach with
supervised switches capable of reporting their status back to the
controller. I have had terrible luck with any AC carrier line
devices, including some CCTV video cameras from Logitech and other
devices which try to piggy-back on the AC lines once I went to CFLs
and flouresents.

The noise levels are just overwhelming for these sensitive carrier
devices like X-10. And the signaling was never designed to be robust
enough to cope with the noisy channel either. They would need to do
longer codes sent more redundantly to get anywhere near acceptable
behavior.

You know, the funny thing is that I have had both good and bad with
x10. In my old house, in the southwestern suburbs of Chicago, it
worked, but to a point. I couldn't have too many modules, or the
signals would get swamped. I tried using the X10 amplifier/phase
repeater and the results were disastrous. So I had to go with a
passive phase coupler. It would continuously send out random x10
commands which were apparently triggered off noise. But, for the
most part, if I "obeyed the rules" it worked. Here in the western
mountains of NC, I use that amplifier/phase coupler, and it works
perfectly. I am basically using 1 house code and all 16 channels.
I do have a motion detector on another house code. I do
occasionally see an anomaly, but they are few and far between.

"Smarty" wrote in message
...
On 6/8/2011 10:34 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message

stuff snipped

Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent
on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.
That's great news. I am about to order one from Amazon to see how they
interact with my X-10 home automation system. CFL bulbs have been a
serious
problem for X-10 users because their electronic profile is so different
from
tungsten incandescent bulbs, the kind X-10 was designed around. Of
course,
Amazon's price is double that of Lowe's, but it might be weeks before I
got
up that way and I wanted to see how X-10 controller modules reacted to
the
lightbulb.

I'm hoping these will eliminate the terrible problem of CFL's turning
themselves back on because of how they work with the slight current
trickle
used in X-10 circuits to sense local control of the switch. I've got my
fingers crossed. It could be the miracle bulb for both of us!

--
Bobby G.


Bobby,

I had a very elaborate X-10 set-up in my home, with many devices being
controlled by remote switches, and most of the lighting controlled by
both the dimmable and non-dimmable wall switches. I had a couple dozen
devices in total, and a bridge to ensure that both of my 110 volt feeds
were coupled to pass the comparatively weak control signals from some
home branch circuits to another. The system worked pretty reliably for
many years.

Howdy, fellow X10'er! Too bad we didn't meet sooner because I think I could
have helped save your sizable-sounding investment in X10 gear.

Once I switched to CFLs as well as standard fluorescent tubes, my X-10
system became totally unreliable with all sorts of false triggers.
Putting a scope on my AC line made it instantly obvious that the EMI
created by these lighting devices was much stronger than the X-10
signals. Furthermore, the X-10 code length was too short to ensure no
false triggering, given the noise environment.

Unfortunately, there are wildly varying brands and designs of CFL's. GE's
gave me NO end of trouble. Then Marc Hult of CHA suggested the N:Vision
line of bulbs from Home Depot and suddenly, no more noise. That simple
change made a world of difference. While many noisy CFL's can be cured by
5A line filters, it's much, MUCH better to switch to a brand of bulbs that
isn't spewing EMI like Mt. Vesuvius during an eruption and that don't
require filtration.

I disconnected all of my X-10 stuff but have considered going to a newer
Zigby or other RF controlled local are net approach with supervised
switches capable of reporting their status back to the controller.

X10 makes switches that can confirm their position to a central controller.
Zigbee has been "just around the corner" for at least 10 years now. It's a
good idea - and home automation will take a quantum leap when manufacturers
build automation interfaces into their appliances - but it's been a long
time since the promise of Zigbee was made.


I have had terrible luck with any AC carrier line devices, including some
CCTV video cameras from Logitech and other devices which try to
piggy-back on the AC lines once I went to CFLs and flouresents.

You probably do need to invest in some X-10 line filters and look at trying
different bulbs. Pick up and scope an N:Vision bulb from Home Depot. I
have two X-10 meters, the Monterey and the XTBM (well three, the Elk, but it
is rather primitive) that allow me to read noise levels in millivolts near
the AC zero crossing where the signal "resides." The worst offender was a
Cellet cellphone charger that put out pseudo-X10 signals continuously,
corrupting nearby transmissions and blocking far away ones. Second worst
was a shoplite that had tested "OK for X10" when I installed it (no noise or
signal attenuation) but that began to "sing" very loudly at 118KHz once the
bulbs started darkening at the ends.

The noise levels are just overwhelming for these sensitive carrier
devices like X-10. And the signaling was never designed to be robust
enough to cope with the noisy channel either. They would need to do
longer codes sent more redundantly to get anywhere near acceptable
behavior.

Politely beg to differ. I can't stress enough how my whole, huge and at the
time entirely unreliable X-10 installation came right under control as soon
as I put the XTB-IIR in at the panel. The wife gained in two ways: The X10
signals just plain worked now and since I was rearranging the panel, I was
able to add three new grounded lines to the kitchen. It's as close to magic
as you're likely to get. (-;

Up until I discussed the shortage of breakers in my panel with Jeff (to add
the XTB-IIR coupler/repeater/amp) I did not know about "dual skinny"
breakers. I got a number of those, rebalanced the panel and added four new
circuits altogether. Now my wife could operate a microwave, the toaster
oven and a hot plate all at the same time without blowing a breaker.
Win-win!

Check it out, I am sure you're be blown away if you add one to your system.
It sounds like a guy like you could even assemble your own. Jeff "kits"
those DIY units even better than Heathkit so that there's no mistake, even
with tiny, unmarked diodes.

http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_reports.htm

--
Bobby G.

On Jun 6, 8:58*pm, Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

It depends on what you call instant:

We have some Wally World quick starts above our bath vanity and they
come "on" pretty much at the flip of the switch. However, they are
very dim when they come on and take about one minute to come up to
full speed. This is OK with us because full bright isn't what we want
at 6:00am.

Other places, like our bedroom closet, have normal Wallyworld bulbs
that have about a 1 second lull, then come on near full brilliance.

My suggestion is sample a few and then buy more of the ones that meet
your needs.

RonB wrote:
On Jun 6, 8:58 pm, Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on? I am trying to find an
indoor bulb which will not require any warm up period to attain full
brightness.

I know that claims are made, but wonder if they are exaggerated or true.
General Electric, for example, actually labels their bulbs as "instant
on" but they are not 'instant'.

I also realize that colder temperatures prolong the ionization / warm up
period, but my application is for indoor use at normal 70 degree F
temperature.

Thanks for any advice.

It depends on what you call instant:

We have some Wally World quick starts above our bath vanity and they
come "on" pretty much at the flip of the switch. However, they are
very dim when they come on and take about one minute to come up to
full speed. This is OK with us because full bright isn't what we want
at 6:00am.

Other places, like our bedroom closet, have normal Wallyworld bulbs
that have about a 1 second lull, then come on near full brilliance.

A second is not very long in the grand scheme of things, but our brains
are accustomed to "instant on", so we jump to the conclusion that something
is busted long before the second elapses.
Doesn't take many times to become accustomed to "lower expectations".

I have a couple of fixtures with two lamps. I use one fast one and
use the other hole to use up the slow ones.

My suggestion is sample a few and then buy more of the ones that meet
your needs.

Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on?

I have some. They come on immediately, turn off, on, off, and then
finally stay on. They're first generation Philips CFLs with a
permanent 60 Hz ballast in the base and replacable fluorescent tube.
Heavy, too -- some floor lamps can't be trusted to stand up with one
installed.

As for modern CFLs, I don't know what brands or models are instant-on,
but I know they exist because some of them have circuit boards
designed for a thermistor (temperature sensitive resistor), but the
thermistor is left out (Max-lite, both original large base and newer
small base models).

On 6/9/2011 5:48 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on?
I have some. They come on immediately, turn off, on, off, and then
finally stay on. They're first generation Philips CFLs with a
permanent 60 Hz ballast in the base and replacable fluorescent tube.
Heavy, too -- some floor lamps can't be trusted to stand up with one
installed.

As for modern CFLs, I don't know what brands or models are instant-on,
but I know they exist because some of them have circuit boards
designed for a thermistor (temperature sensitive resistor), but the
thermistor is left out (Max-lite, both original large base and newer
small base models).
I thank you for your reply and wonder if any of the modern CFLs which
use the circuit board you describe actually do come up to full
brightness very rapidly. If you have any specifics, please provide them
as I am glad to explore other options, mostly out of curiosity since I
have found the hybrid GE bulbs.

It seems that heating the filament and vaporizing some mercury cannot be
done instantly, despite claims to the contrary. GE's solution, using a
second halogen bulb temporarily, makes a whole lot of sense to me, and
illustrates the reality that a purely fluorescent lamp will take a
little time to warm up.

On Jun 9, 7:34*pm, Smarty wrote:
On 6/9/2011 5:48 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on?
I have some. *They come on immediately, turn off, on, off, and then
finally stay on. * They're first generation Philips CFLs with a
permanent 60 Hz ballast in the base and replacable fluorescent tube.
Heavy, too -- some floor lamps can't be trusted to stand up with one
installed.

As for modern CFLs, I don't know what brands or models are instant-on,
but I know they exist because some of them have circuit boards
designed for a thermistor (temperature sensitive resistor), but the
thermistor is left out (Max-lite, both original large base and newer
small base models).

I thank you for your reply and wonder if any of the modern CFLs which
use the circuit board you describe actually do come up to full
brightness very rapidly. If you have any specifics, please provide them
as I am glad to explore other options, mostly out of curiosity since I
have found the hybrid GE bulbs.

It seems that heating the filament and vaporizing some mercury cannot be
done instantly, despite claims to the contrary. GE's solution, using a
second halogen bulb temporarily, makes a whole lot of sense to me, and
illustrates the reality that a purely fluorescent lamp will take a
little time to warm up.

In the past I had a X 10 motion sensitive system on my pole light.
Nice idea worked terrible temperature and noisey line unstable.

I thought about some work arounds but decided it wasnt worth it.

Has anyone tried LED lamps on X 10?

they didnt exist when I last played with it.

X 10 was wonderful for my elderly grandma it controlled so much around
here

On Thu, 9 Jun 2011 17:00:47 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

On Jun 9, 7:34*pm, Smarty wrote:
On 6/9/2011 5:48 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on?
I have some. *They come on immediately, turn off, on, off, and then
finally stay on. * They're first generation Philips CFLs with a
permanent 60 Hz ballast in the base and replacable fluorescent tube.
Heavy, too -- some floor lamps can't be trusted to stand up with one
installed.

As for modern CFLs, I don't know what brands or models are instant-on,
but I know they exist because some of them have circuit boards
designed for a thermistor (temperature sensitive resistor), but the
thermistor is left out (Max-lite, both original large base and newer
small base models).

I thank you for your reply and wonder if any of the modern CFLs which
use the circuit board you describe actually do come up to full
brightness very rapidly. If you have any specifics, please provide them
as I am glad to explore other options, mostly out of curiosity since I
have found the hybrid GE bulbs.

It seems that heating the filament and vaporizing some mercury cannot be
done instantly, despite claims to the contrary. GE's solution, using a
second halogen bulb temporarily, makes a whole lot of sense to me, and
illustrates the reality that a purely fluorescent lamp will take a
little time to warm up.

In the past I had a X 10 motion sensitive system on my pole light.
Nice idea worked terrible temperature and noisey line unstable.

Often the problem with X-10.

I thought about some work arounds but decided it wasnt worth it.

A common conclusion. ;-)

Has anyone tried LED lamps on X 10?

Good question! If there are any incandescent's on the string X-10 should work
fine, though the nonlinear load might mess up the signaling even more than
normal. With a pure LED load dimming might also be a problem.

they didnt exist when I last played with it.

X 10 was wonderful for my elderly grandma it controlled so much around
here

X-10 is terribly unreliable. Some had good luck with it and others not so
much. The technology is really poor. Too bad no one picked up the good idea
and made it really workable.

On 6/9/2011 8:12 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2011 17:00:47 -0700 (PDT), bob wrote:

On Jun 9, 7:34 pm, wrote:
On 6/9/2011 5:48 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

Smarty wrote:
Is there such a thing as a true "instant start" CFL which produces full
intensity brightness as soon as it is turned on?
I have some. They come on immediately, turn off, on, off, and then
finally stay on. They're first generation Philips CFLs with a
permanent 60 Hz ballast in the base and replacable fluorescent tube.
Heavy, too -- some floor lamps can't be trusted to stand up with one
installed.
As for modern CFLs, I don't know what brands or models are instant-on,
but I know they exist because some of them have circuit boards
designed for a thermistor (temperature sensitive resistor), but the
thermistor is left out (Max-lite, both original large base and newer
small base models).
I thank you for your reply and wonder if any of the modern CFLs which
use the circuit board you describe actually do come up to full
brightness very rapidly. If you have any specifics, please provide them
as I am glad to explore other options, mostly out of curiosity since I
have found the hybrid GE bulbs.

It seems that heating the filament and vaporizing some mercury cannot be
done instantly, despite claims to the contrary. GE's solution, using a
second halogen bulb temporarily, makes a whole lot of sense to me, and
illustrates the reality that a purely fluorescent lamp will take a
little time to warm up.
In the past I had a X 10 motion sensitive system on my pole light.
Nice idea worked terrible temperature and noisey line unstable.
Often the problem with X-10.

I thought about some work arounds but decided it wasnt worth it.
A common conclusion. ;-)

Has anyone tried LED lamps on X 10?
Good question! If there are any incandescent's on the string X-10 should work
fine, though the nonlinear load might mess up the signaling even more than
normal. With a pure LED load dimming might also be a problem.

they didnt exist when I last played with it.

X 10 was wonderful for my elderly grandma it controlled so much around
here
X-10 is terribly unreliable. Some had good luck with it and others not so
much. The technology is really poor. Too bad no one picked up the good idea
and made it really workable.
You might take a look at Zigbee devices which can be mixed in a local
area network. This approach uses 802.25 IEEE standard compliant devices,
and in an entirely different league from X-10.

wrote in message
news
On Thu, 9 Jun 2011 17:00:47 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

stuff snipped

X 10 was wonderful for my elderly grandma it controlled so much around
here

X-10 is terribly unreliable. Some had good luck with it and others not so
much. The technology is really poor. Too bad no one picked up the good
idea
and made it really workable.

Oh, but they did! Jeff Volp designed a line of repeater/coupler/amplifiers
called XTB that take the weak 5V X-10 signal emitted by stock devices and
ampflies it to nearly 25V. That sort of signal strength cuts right through
CFL and other EMI noise. An X-10 installation without one isn't worth a
damn because of signal attenuation and signal interference in the modern
home. X-10 was designed for the homes of 30+ years ago when there were no
switching power supplies and no CFL's.

http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_overview.htm

I was just about to scrap my $1K plus X-10 system when Jeff developed the
XTB. It's like the carbureutor that runs on water - a truly miraculous
device that's saved me (and many others) tons of money by preserving out
extensive investment in X-10 gear. It comes ready made or in kit form.
People who've installed them wonder how they ever put up with X-10 without
the XTB. I use a XTB-IIR at the panel as a coupler/repeater and a
standalone XTB connected to my WGL all housecode RF transceiver in the attic
to make sure that all RF commands reach the repeater. If you can change out
your own breakers, you can easily add the XTB-IIR repeater/coupler/amplifier
to your system. It's the biggest bang you can get for your bucks these
days.

Only one extremely noisy fluorescent lamp (2 bulb 48") was ever able to
overwhelm it at the end of a long circuit when it began emitting noise over
1 volt right at 120KHz, the X-10 transmission frequency. Jeff's designed a
fancy but inexpensive XTBM meter to track down such problems by measuring
X-10 voltage, line noise and lots of other X-10 related info. I have a CCTV
camera from a quad cam setup focused on the XTBM so I can check the last
X-10 transmission easily.

No financial interest, just a very, VERY satisified customer!

--
Bobby G.