I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has no
caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city, state
automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every time it
comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees so
the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put up
with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

--
O'Neil to General Hammond:
For the record Sir, I wanted to blow it the hell up.

On 6/4/2011 10:36 AM, Metspitzer wrote:
I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has no
caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city, state
automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every time it
comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees so
the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put up
with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

--
O'Neil to General Hammond:
For the record Sir, I wanted to blow it the hell up.

Most, if not all, big banks suck and exist to please share holders. Get
a credit union. I've been with a CU for almost 30 years. Not one
problem. In fact, they are very helpful particularly when it comes to ID
theft. Small enough to treat you like a person.

Jim

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:36:04 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:

I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has no
caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city, state
automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every time it
comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees so
the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put up
with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

This is why I've always used the "pull" method of automatic payment
(where you authorize the utility/school/credit card/etc to initiate an
ACH transfer each month for the bill amount), instead of the "push"
method of these bill-pay systems. I'd see if the hospital can set
that up if these are ongoing bills.

I've done this for all my recurring bills for 15+ years and never had
a problem with a bad withdrawal -- on the contrary, the one time I
tried to use "bill pay" several years ago with my credit union to pay
the rent I couldn't have autopayed via pull, on the third month they
took the money out of my account...and never sent it to the rental
agency. They did take responsibility, and refunded it along with the
late charge I paid the agency immediately, but I gave up after that.
Too much room for error/finger pointing, where with ACH withdrawal, if
the statement says "PG&E ACH $16.85", that's proof that PG&E received
that amount.

In the end, if the company pulling the money is legit, they're only
going to take what they should. If they're not...well, anyone with
your account and routing number (including someone you "bill pay" to)
can initiate a fraudulent payment anyway, so you don't really have any
more protection.

Josh

On 6/4/2011 11:56 AM, Josh wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:36:04 -0400,
wrote:

I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has no
caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city, state
automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every time it
comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees so
the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put up
with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

This is why I've always used the "pull" method of automatic payment
(where you authorize the utility/school/credit card/etc to initiate an
ACH transfer each month for the bill amount), instead of the "push"
method of these bill-pay systems. I'd see if the hospital can set
that up if these are ongoing bills.

I've done this for all my recurring bills for 15+ years and never had
a problem with a bad withdrawal -- on the contrary, the one time I
tried to use "bill pay" several years ago with my credit union to pay
the rent I couldn't have autopayed via pull, on the third month they
took the money out of my account...and never sent it to the rental
agency. They did take responsibility, and refunded it along with the
late charge I paid the agency immediately, but I gave up after that.
Too much room for error/finger pointing, where with ACH withdrawal, if
the statement says "PG&E ACH $16.85", that's proof that PG&E received
that amount.

In the end, if the company pulling the money is legit, they're only
going to take what they should. If they're not...well, anyone with
your account and routing number (including someone you "bill pay" to)
can initiate a fraudulent payment anyway, so you don't really have any
more protection.

Josh

I would never ever give anyone the keys to my bank account. All
disbursements are made by me and I can think of a number of occasions
why that makes sense.

We use natural gas for heating/cooking/water heating. The highest bill
we ever had was ~ 160.00 There was bad weather so they didn't read the
meters and delivered estimated billing. Only little problem was they
delivered a bill for almost $700. If they could take whatever money they
wanted they would have caused other payments to fail since I only keep
sufficient money to pay bills in the account. Since I am in control of
my checkbook I called them and asked how much I really owed them and
they played the part of the 900lb gorilla and told me $690. I refused to
pay unless they gave me a reasonable estimate so the "supervisor" had a
powwow with someone and decided $150 would work.

The water company notified us they needed to change the water meter. So
they kept on making appointments and then no one would show. They even
cluelessly claimed it wasn't their problem because they hired a
contractor to do the work. Then the normal $22 water bill became $400+
with estimated fees because they tried to make their poor management my
problem. If they had the keys to our checking account they could have
taken the money and we would need to battle them and when they did they
could have caused other legitimate bills not to be paid. I called and
asked "how much do I actually owe you?" and received the same we are
megacorp you are stupid response that the other utility gave me. After a
long discussion the "manager" agreed to the normal monthly bill.

On Jun 4, 11:36*am, Metspitzer wrote:
I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. *Wells Fargo has no
caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city, state
automatically is 0. * (I suggest adding this feature every time it
comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. *I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. *South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees so
the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put up
with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. *M. O. U. S. E * bank

--
O'Neil to General Hammond:
For the record Sir, I wanted to blow it the hell up.

How DARE you talk down to the almighty and powerful Security Forces Of
the Church of the Supreme Court LLC

On 6/4/2011 11:56 AM, Josh wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:36:04 -0400,
wrote:

I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has no
caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city, state
automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every time it
comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees so
the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put up
with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

This is why I've always used the "pull" method of automatic payment
(where you authorize the utility/school/credit card/etc to initiate an
ACH transfer each month for the bill amount), instead of the "push"
method of these bill-pay systems. I'd see if the hospital can set
that up if these are ongoing bills.

I've done this for all my recurring bills for 15+ years and never had
a problem with a bad withdrawal -- on the contrary, the one time I
tried to use "bill pay" several years ago with my credit union to pay
the rent I couldn't have autopayed via pull, on the third month they
took the money out of my account...and never sent it to the rental
agency. They did take responsibility, and refunded it along with the
late charge I paid the agency immediately, but I gave up after that.
Too much room for error/finger pointing, where with ACH withdrawal, if
the statement says "PG&E ACH $16.85", that's proof that PG&E received
that amount.

In the end, if the company pulling the money is legit, they're only
going to take what they should. If they're not...well, anyone with
your account and routing number (including someone you "bill pay" to)
can initiate a fraudulent payment anyway, so you don't really have any
more protection.

Josh

I trust you have told your bank to NOT link that account to your other
accounts, so if a fubar'd or fraudulent transaction comes through, it
can't snatch ALL your money? Don't laugh- it has happened- bank tries to
be helpful, and ends up aiding a crook.

I am glad it works for you, but the only way I would trust letting
outsiders tap my account on their own, is via a sacrificial account in a
separate bank, and never keep more in the account than I can afford to
lose. Rationally I know you are correct, and it works 99.999% of the
time with no problem. But I seem to be a lightning rod for that 0.001%.
Besides, writing those checks reminds me it is real money, and I need to
be frugal so I don't outlive it. Automatic payment is worse than using
plastic- it doesn't FEEL like spending money at all.

And unless you have your account set up for pull payments, how can
anyone remotely tap it? Isn't that a flag on the account? And don't the
pull payment orders have to be from specific banks/accounts/IDs?, with
the vendor presenting YOUR bank with an image of one of your checks and
some sort of an authorization audit trail, at least the first time? That
is what all the vendors I deal with imply, in their incessant pleas to
get me to start using auto-pay.

Yeah, I'm a luddite- I'd rather use cash for everything. But that isn't
really possible any more, no matter what the law says.

--
aem sends...

George wrote in :

On 6/4/2011 11:56 AM, Josh wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:36:04 -0400,
wrote:

I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has
no caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city,
state automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every
time it comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees
so the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put
up with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

This is why I've always used the "pull" method of automatic payment
(where you authorize the utility/school/credit card/etc to initiate
an ACH transfer each month for the bill amount), instead of the
"push" method of these bill-pay systems. I'd see if the hospital can
set that up if these are ongoing bills.

I've done this for all my recurring bills for 15+ years and never had
a problem with a bad withdrawal -- on the contrary, the one time I
tried to use "bill pay" several years ago with my credit union to pay
the rent I couldn't have autopayed via pull, on the third month they
took the money out of my account...and never sent it to the rental
agency. They did take responsibility, and refunded it along with the
late charge I paid the agency immediately, but I gave up after that.
Too much room for error/finger pointing, where with ACH withdrawal,
if the statement says "PG&E ACH $16.85", that's proof that PG&E
received that amount.

In the end, if the company pulling the money is legit, they're only
going to take what they should. If they're not...well, anyone with
your account and routing number (including someone you "bill pay" to)
can initiate a fraudulent payment anyway, so you don't really have
any more protection.

Josh

I would never ever give anyone the keys to my bank account. All
disbursements are made by me and I can think of a number of occasions
why that makes sense.

We use natural gas for heating/cooking/water heating. The highest bill
we ever had was ~ 160.00 There was bad weather so they didn't read the
meters and delivered estimated billing. Only little problem was they
delivered a bill for almost $700. If they could take whatever money
they wanted they would have caused other payments to fail since I only
keep sufficient money to pay bills in the account. Since I am in
control of my checkbook I called them and asked how much I really owed
them and they played the part of the 900lb gorilla and told me $690. I
refused to pay unless they gave me a reasonable estimate so the
"supervisor" had a powwow with someone and decided $150 would work.

The water company notified us they needed to change the water meter.
So they kept on making appointments and then no one would show. They
even cluelessly claimed it wasn't their problem because they hired a
contractor to do the work. Then the normal $22 water bill became $400+
with estimated fees because they tried to make their poor management
my problem. If they had the keys to our checking account they could
have taken the money and we would need to battle them and when they
did they could have caused other legitimate bills not to be paid. I
called and asked "how much do I actually owe you?" and received the
same we are megacorp you are stupid response that the other utility
gave me. After a long discussion the "manager" agreed to the normal
monthly bill.

I'm with Josh. Wrong billing is something you need to deal with
separately. I wouldn't stand for it either. Almost all my utility bills
and credit card payments are automagically by the "pull" method. When
Verizon started erroneous billing, I stopped it until they fixed their
paperwork. The gasportion of my bill has often estimated readings. I
either let them carry over to the next month or call them to correct it.
Even with Jersey's PSE&G that hasn't been a problem. The main
advantage (IMNSHO) is that if you forget to send a payment it is your
fault. If they forget to pull the money it is their problem. Now I
don't have to worry whether the payment gets there on time.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 12:25:47 -0400, George
wrote:

On 6/4/2011 11:56 AM, Josh wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:36:04 -0400,
wrote:

I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has no
caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city, state
automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every time it
comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees so
the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put up
with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

This is why I've always used the "pull" method of automatic payment
(where you authorize the utility/school/credit card/etc to initiate an
ACH transfer each month for the bill amount), instead of the "push"
method of these bill-pay systems. I'd see if the hospital can set
that up if these are ongoing bills.

I've done this for all my recurring bills for 15+ years and never had
a problem with a bad withdrawal -- on the contrary, the one time I
tried to use "bill pay" several years ago with my credit union to pay
the rent I couldn't have autopayed via pull, on the third month they
took the money out of my account...and never sent it to the rental
agency. They did take responsibility, and refunded it along with the
late charge I paid the agency immediately, but I gave up after that.
Too much room for error/finger pointing, where with ACH withdrawal, if
the statement says "PG&E ACH $16.85", that's proof that PG&E received
that amount.

In the end, if the company pulling the money is legit, they're only
going to take what they should. If they're not...well, anyone with
your account and routing number (including someone you "bill pay" to)
can initiate a fraudulent payment anyway, so you don't really have any
more protection.

Josh

I would never ever give anyone the keys to my bank account. All
disbursements are made by me and I can think of a number of occasions
why that makes sense.

Anyone you've ever written a check to has the "keys to your bank
account" already -- the routing number for the bank and the account
number. The vendor doesn't send anything beyond that (and the amount,
of course) to the ACH system; they keep your authorizations on file,
of course, but that doesn't prevent unauthorized transactions until
it's done, you complain and your bank investigates.



We use natural gas for heating/cooking/water heating. The highest bill
we ever had was ~ 160.00 There was bad weather so they didn't read the
meters and delivered estimated billing. Only little problem was they
delivered a bill for almost $700. If they could take whatever money they
wanted they would have caused other payments to fail since I only keep
sufficient money to pay bills in the account. Since I am in control of
my checkbook I called them and asked how much I really owed them and
they played the part of the 900lb gorilla and told me $690. I refused to
pay unless they gave me a reasonable estimate so the "supervisor" had a
powwow with someone and decided $150 would work.

I always receive a bill to review showing the amount to be pulled,
either online or paper -- the "pull" doesn't happen until the due date
a few weeks later. If the amount isn't correct, there's time to get
the utility etc to correct it, or to call the bank to get them to
block that specific ACH attempt (or just empty your account :-)

Josh

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 19:17:42 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

On 6/4/2011 11:56 AM, Josh wrote:


In the end, if the company pulling the money is legit, they're only
going to take what they should. If they're not...well, anyone with
your account and routing number (including someone you "bill pay" to)
can initiate a fraudulent payment anyway, so you don't really have any
more protection.


I trust you have told your bank to NOT link that account to your other
accounts, so if a fubar'd or fraudulent transaction comes through, it
can't snatch ALL your money? Don't laugh- it has happened- bank tries to
be helpful, and ends up aiding a crook.

Our checking account is linked to a savings account that has some
money; I agree that we probably shouldn't have them that way, but it's
not all of our savings.


I am glad it works for you, but the only way I would trust letting
outsiders tap my account on their own, is via a sacrificial account in a
separate bank, and never keep more in the account than I can afford to

All "outsiders" need to tap your account is the information on one of
your checks -- the routing number and account number. If you write
someone a check, you're giving them all the info they need.

lose. Rationally I know you are correct, and it works 99.999% of the
time with no problem. But I seem to be a lightning rod for that 0.001%.
Besides, writing those checks reminds me it is real money, and I need to
be frugal so I don't outlive it. Automatic payment is worse than using
plastic- it doesn't FEEL like spending money at all.

And unless you have your account set up for pull payments, how can
anyone remotely tap it? Isn't that a flag on the account? And don't the
pull payment orders have to be from specific banks/accounts/IDs?, with
the vendor presenting YOUR bank with an image of one of your checks and
some sort of an authorization audit trail, at least the first time? That
is what all the vendors I deal with imply, in their incessant pleas to
get me to start using auto-pay.

Nope, you don't set anything up on your account beforehand -- all the
vendor needs is your bank's routing number (the first set of numbers
on your check), the account number (the second set), and the amount
they want to debit.

You do submit a signed authorization to the vendor, but all they do is
keep that on file (most used to require a voided check just to make
sure the numbers are correct, but many don't require that anymore). If
you had a dispute, the bank would ask the vendor for their documents,
but that's after the fact. I'm sure the banks have some fraud
detection, and would start blocking "Josh's SuperDuper Service"
charges after a few complaints, but that's a different issue.

Josh

On 6/4/2011 7:33 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in :

On 6/4/2011 11:56 AM, Josh wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:36:04 -0400,
wrote:

I just added Emory Hospital as an automatic payee. Wells Fargo has
no caller ID lookup so the chances of finding the address, city,
state automatically is 0. (I suggest adding this feature every
time it comes up but all I hear are crickets)

Also automatic payments has no way to send the exact amount of the
bill. I can set up payments, and I have the option of sending them
forever until I stop them, or sending xx number of payments. South
Trust had the option of "send until you pay $$$.cc."

Because all of my bills recur monthly, I rarely have to add payees
so the amount of trouble to switch banks is more trouble than to put
up with this, so all I can do is complain.

M. I. C. K. E. Y. M. O. U. S. E bank

This is why I've always used the "pull" method of automatic payment
(where you authorize the utility/school/credit card/etc to initiate
an ACH transfer each month for the bill amount), instead of the
"push" method of these bill-pay systems. I'd see if the hospital can
set that up if these are ongoing bills.

I've done this for all my recurring bills for 15+ years and never had
a problem with a bad withdrawal -- on the contrary, the one time I
tried to use "bill pay" several years ago with my credit union to pay
the rent I couldn't have autopayed via pull, on the third month they
took the money out of my account...and never sent it to the rental
agency. They did take responsibility, and refunded it along with the
late charge I paid the agency immediately, but I gave up after that.
Too much room for error/finger pointing, where with ACH withdrawal,
if the statement says "PG&E ACH $16.85", that's proof that PG&E
received that amount.

In the end, if the company pulling the money is legit, they're only
going to take what they should. If they're not...well, anyone with
your account and routing number (including someone you "bill pay" to)
can initiate a fraudulent payment anyway, so you don't really have
any more protection.

Josh

I would never ever give anyone the keys to my bank account. All
disbursements are made by me and I can think of a number of occasions
why that makes sense.

We use natural gas for heating/cooking/water heating. The highest bill
we ever had was ~ 160.00 There was bad weather so they didn't read the
meters and delivered estimated billing. Only little problem was they
delivered a bill for almost $700. If they could take whatever money
they wanted they would have caused other payments to fail since I only
keep sufficient money to pay bills in the account. Since I am in
control of my checkbook I called them and asked how much I really owed
them and they played the part of the 900lb gorilla and told me $690. I
refused to pay unless they gave me a reasonable estimate so the
"supervisor" had a powwow with someone and decided $150 would work.

The water company notified us they needed to change the water meter.
So they kept on making appointments and then no one would show. They
even cluelessly claimed it wasn't their problem because they hired a
contractor to do the work. Then the normal $22 water bill became $400+
with estimated fees because they tried to make their poor management
my problem. If they had the keys to our checking account they could
have taken the money and we would need to battle them and when they
did they could have caused other legitimate bills not to be paid. I
called and asked "how much do I actually owe you?" and received the
same we are megacorp you are stupid response that the other utility
gave me. After a long discussion the "manager" agreed to the normal
monthly bill.

I'm with Josh. Wrong billing is something you need to deal with
separately. I wouldn't stand for it either. Almost all my utility bills
and credit card payments are automagically by the "pull" method. When
Verizon started erroneous billing, I stopped it until they fixed their
paperwork. The gasportion of my bill has often estimated readings. I
either let them carry over to the next month or call them to correct it.
Even with Jersey's PSE&G that hasn't been a problem. The main
advantage (IMNSHO) is that if you forget to send a payment it is your
fault. If they forget to pull the money it is their problem. Now I
don't have to worry whether the payment gets there on time.


So I put my account on "autopilot" and someone pulls a lot more than
they should how do I deal with that separately?

One of the best things that ever happened to prevent forgetting to pay
bills is online banking. As bills come in I simply log on to the bank
and post them instead of putting them in a pile. If someone sends a
bizarre bill it doesn't get posted.

George wrote in :

So I put my account on "autopilot" and someone pulls a lot more than
they should how do I deal with that separately?

That would warrant calls to bank and whoever did it. Has never happened to
me, so far knocking wood.

One of the best things that ever happened to prevent forgetting to pay
bills is online banking. As bills come in I simply log on to the bank
and post them instead of putting them in a pile. If someone sends a
bizarre bill it doesn't get posted.

That's fine if you don't go on vacation or off to help your kid with a
family problem (happy or not). I'm sometimes away for more than a few
days. Also, I keepmy money in my checking account for a longer period if I
do the pull method. With the push you'd better pay a few days early to
avoid problems with late payments.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Josh wrote in
:

I always receive a bill to review showing the amount to be pulled,
either online or paper -- the "pull" doesn't happen until the due date
a few weeks later. If the amount isn't correct, there's time to get
the utility etc to correct it, or to call the bank to get them to
block that specific ACH attempt (or just empty your account :-)

Indeed.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Han" wrote in message ...

George wrote in :

So I put my account on "autopilot" and someone pulls a lot more than
they should how do I deal with that separately?

That would warrant calls to bank and whoever did it. Has never happened to
me, so far knocking wood.

One of the best things that ever happened to prevent forgetting to pay
bills is online banking. As bills come in I simply log on to the bank
and post them instead of putting them in a pile. If someone sends a
bizarre bill it doesn't get posted.

That's fine if you don't go on vacation or off to help your kid with a
family problem (happy or not). I'm sometimes away for more than a few
days. Also, I keepmy money in my checking account for a longer period if I
do the pull method. With the push you'd better pay a few days early to
avoid problems with late payments.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
With my bank I can schedule payments a couple of days before they are due
and the funds are not taken from my account until that day. When we are
going to be away, we just schedule any payments that will be coming due
while we are away. Nothing is automatically taken from my account that I
don't schedule myself, in advance.
elgy

On 6/5/2011 5:08 PM, ELGY wrote:


"Han" wrote in message ...

George wrote in :

So I put my account on "autopilot" and someone pulls a lot more than
they should how do I deal with that separately?

That would warrant calls to bank and whoever did it. Has never
happened to
me, so far knocking wood.

One of the best things that ever happened to prevent forgetting to pay
bills is online banking. As bills come in I simply log on to the bank
and post them instead of putting them in a pile. If someone sends a
bizarre bill it doesn't get posted.

That's fine if you don't go on vacation or off to help your kid with a
family problem (happy or not). I'm sometimes away for more than a few
days. Also, I keepmy money in my checking account for a longer period
if I
do the pull method. With the push you'd better pay a few days early to
avoid problems with late payments.


I've only had one slightly negative experience with "auto pay" but I
like to be in control. ( I think we're talking about the same thing)

On another subject: The mortgage company is always sending me biweekly
auto pay program suggestions. Those have to be looked inot carefully.
They are usually just a way for the mortgage company to earn more
interest on my money. Best thing to do is just take the two extra
paydays/yr and put it towards principle. But they don't tell you that.

In article ,
JimT wrote:

On another subject: The mortgage company is always sending me biweekly
auto pay program suggestions. Those have to be looked inot carefully.
They are usually just a way for the mortgage company to earn more
interest on my money. Best thing to do is just take the two extra
paydays/yr and put it towards principle. But they don't tell you that.

Back in the day, I took out a 30 year mortgage (so I'd have some leeway
in payments) but paid at the 15 year rate. I actually used to get
communications from my lender reminding I really did not have to pay
that much. Amazing the amount of money one has to spend when the kids
are out of college and the mortgage is paid off.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On 6/5/2011 6:20 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In astnet,
wrote:

On another subject: The mortgage company is always sending me biweekly
auto pay program suggestions. Those have to be looked inot carefully.
They are usually just a way for the mortgage company to earn more
interest on my money. Best thing to do is just take the two extra
paydays/yr and put it towards principle. But they don't tell you that.
Back in the day, I took out a 30 year mortgage (so I'd have some leeway
in payments) but paid at the 15 year rate. I actually used to get
communications from my lender reminding I really did not have to pay
that much. Amazing the amount of money one has to spend when the kids
are out of college and the mortgage is paid off.


We just refinanced to a lower rate and term. I plan to have mine paid
off in about 10 years if not sooner (assuming my wife doesn't get that
Lexus she always talking about). I'm always sending extra money on
principle and they never complain. I used to make advanced payments
until I found out that did very little towards increasing the
principle/interest payment ratio. If I dropped back to a normal payment
schedule I'd still would have paid the same interest. Seems unfair but I
guess that's the way the computer processes the payments. I never could
get a straight answer. The customer service people were clueless. I
don't think they train them for these situations.

Congrats on paying off your house. I look forward to that feeling!

In article ,
JimT wrote:


We just refinanced to a lower rate and term. I plan to have mine paid
off in about 10 years if not sooner (assuming my wife doesn't get that
Lexus she always talking about). I'm always sending extra money on
principle and they never complain. I used to make advanced payments
until I found out that did very little towards increasing the
principle/interest payment ratio. If I dropped back to a normal payment
schedule I'd still would have paid the same interest. Seems unfair but I
guess that's the way the computer processes the payments. I never could
get a straight answer. The customer service people were clueless. I
don't think they train them for these situations.
Clueless is correct. There was always a place on my form to
designate that I was paying extra principle. ALL of that has to go to
principle. Everything I have EVER read says that you save all sorts of
interest (IIRC it cut the total interest I paid by around 40% or so.
K



Congrats on paying off your house. I look forward to that feeling!

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:17:45 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
JimT wrote:


We just refinanced to a lower rate and term. I plan to have mine paid
off in about 10 years if not sooner (assuming my wife doesn't get that
Lexus she always talking about). I'm always sending extra money on
principle and they never complain. I used to make advanced payments
until I found out that did very little towards increasing the
principle/interest payment ratio. If I dropped back to a normal payment
schedule I'd still would have paid the same interest. Seems unfair but I
guess that's the way the computer processes the payments. I never could
get a straight answer. The customer service people were clueless. I
don't think they train them for these situations.
Clueless is correct. There was always a place on my form to
designate that I was paying extra principle. ALL of that has to go to
principle. Everything I have EVER read says that you save all sorts of
interest (IIRC it cut the total interest I paid by around 40% or so.

Correct. They can only charge interest on the outstanding balance. That
said, they can make it a PITA to pay towards the balance rather than just
build up money in a *very* low yield account. At one time some mortgages
required that payments towards the balance had to be in monthly payment
increments, just to discourage advance payments. I don't believe such is
legal anymore. My mortgages haven't worked that way.

There also may be a pre-payment penalty. These are normally used to recapture
paid (financed) closing costs. There may be a substantial penalty for paying
more than, say, 1/5 of the mortgage in a given year for the first five years
of a mortgage (or some such numbers).

Congrats on paying off your house. I look forward to that feeling!

On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 19:20:38 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
JimT wrote:

On another subject: The mortgage company is always sending me biweekly
auto pay program suggestions. Those have to be looked inot carefully.
They are usually just a way for the mortgage company to earn more
interest on my money. Best thing to do is just take the two extra
paydays/yr and put it towards principle. But they don't tell you that.

Back in the day, I took out a 30 year mortgage (so I'd have some leeway
in payments) but paid at the 15 year rate. I actually used to get
communications from my lender reminding I really did not have to pay
that much. Amazing the amount of money one has to spend when the kids
are out of college and the mortgage is paid off.

Back in the day, we couldn't/didn't pay ahead (stupid). I "retired" five
years ago and we sold the house and moved a couple of times for a new job
(once was a contracting position) and ended up buying again in 2008. We
rolled the proceeds from the previous house in when we bought this one (half
of the $300K). We learned our lesson. This house will be paid off in three
years. Yes, after the kids are gone there is a lot more money in the pot.
SWMBO wants a new car but the one she has now (an '00) drives fine. ;-)

"JimT" wrote
On another subject: The mortgage company is always sending me biweekly
auto pay program suggestions. Those have to be looked inot carefully. They
are usually just a way for the mortgage company to earn more interest on
my money. Best thing to do is just take the two extra paydays/yr and put
it towards principle. But they don't tell you that.

Many people have no idea about how mortgages work. As you say, the
bi=weekly is a scam to get you to send estra money. All you have to do is
send some extra every month and it goes to the principal and saves a ton of
money.

I used a spreadsheet to track my payments and every month I'd see the big
savings at the end when I made the entry. It was a good incentive to send a
few bucks more. Check here for one
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/spreadsheets.htm

In article ,
" wrote:


There also may be a pre-payment penalty. These are normally used to recapture
paid (financed) closing costs. There may be a substantial penalty for paying
more than, say, 1/5 of the mortgage in a given year for the first five years
of a mortgage (or some such numbers).

That isn't a prepayment penalty, though. That is merely paying what
you owed for services rendered. If you had paid those ahead of time
(which is the bright thing to do since they charge interest on these
over the term of mortgage otherwise) there would have been no additional
charges. Pure prepayment penalities are illegal and have been since at
least the mid-70s since I have prepaid through all of my houses.
I don't view this as being a bad thing, just part of the cost of the
house, like the shingles (grin). Now LETTING you take 30 years to pay
off the closing costs with interest..

Congrats on paying off your house. I look forward to that feeling!

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On 6/5/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"JimT" wrote
On another subject: The mortgage company is always sending me
biweekly auto pay program suggestions. Those have to be looked inot
carefully. They are usually just a way for the mortgage company to
earn more interest on my money. Best thing to do is just take the two
extra paydays/yr and put it towards principle. But they don't tell
you that.

Many people have no idea about how mortgages work. As you say, the
bi=weekly is a scam to get you to send estra money. All you have to
do is send some extra every month and it goes to the principal and
saves a ton of money.

I used a spreadsheet to track my payments and every month I'd see the
big savings at the end when I made the entry. It was a good incentive
to send a few bucks more. Check here for one
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/spreadsheets.htm



Thanks

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 08:05:37 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


There also may be a pre-payment penalty. These are normally used to recapture
paid (financed) closing costs. There may be a substantial penalty for paying
more than, say, 1/5 of the mortgage in a given year for the first five years
of a mortgage (or some such numbers).

That isn't a prepayment penalty, though. That is merely paying what
you owed for services rendered. If you had paid those ahead of time
(which is the bright thing to do since they charge interest on these
over the term of mortgage otherwise) there would have been no additional
charges. Pure prepayment penalities are illegal and have been since at
least the mid-70s since I have prepaid through all of my houses.

It may not technically be a "prepayment penalty", but that's what it has been
called. Financing closing costs might not be an awful thing to do, 1) if
there is no other way to refinance, or 2) you don't plan on being in the house
longer than... At that point it's a numbers game. That's what the
"prepayment penalty" above is all about, of course.

I don't view this as being a bad thing, just part of the cost of the
house, like the shingles (grin). Now LETTING you take 30 years to pay
off the closing costs with interest..

Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.

Congrats on paying off your house. I look forward to that feeling!

In article ,
" wrote:


Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.


Never said it was the worst that could happen and you noted some
times where it might be good idea. Just don't like the banks pushing it
on everyone as a good idea as they have recently with some friends.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:56:58 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.


Never said it was the worst that could happen and you noted some
times where it might be good idea. Just don't like the banks pushing it
on everyone as a good idea as they have recently with some friends.

It's far better than sitting with a high-rate mortgage because you can't
afford the closing costs. After than, it's up to each individual to calculate
which offer is best for them.

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:40:55 -0500, "
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:56:58 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.


Never said it was the worst that could happen and you noted some
times where it might be good idea. Just don't like the banks pushing it
on everyone as a good idea as they have recently with some friends.

It's far better than sitting with a high-rate mortgage because you can't
afford the closing costs. After than, it's up to each individual to calculate
which offer is best for them.

Sometimes you have to coddle the banks along.
I called BOA for instructions on a 10 g principal payment.
The lady told me to write "Apply to Principal Only" in the memo
section of the check. That went fine.
About a year later I did the exact same thing with about 3 g's, can't
remember the exact amount.
So I notice I don't get my monthly bill, and call them.
They had applied it to monthly payments far in advance.
Crazy, but good for them.
I had them straighten that out, and retroactively too.

--Vic

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:09:49 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:40:55 -0500, "
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:56:58 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.


Never said it was the worst that could happen and you noted some
times where it might be good idea. Just don't like the banks pushing it
on everyone as a good idea as they have recently with some friends.

It's far better than sitting with a high-rate mortgage because you can't
afford the closing costs. After than, it's up to each individual to calculate
which offer is best for them.

Sometimes you have to coddle the banks along.
I called BOA for instructions on a 10 g principal payment.
The lady told me to write "Apply to Principal Only" in the memo
section of the check. That went fine.

They read the check?

About a year later I did the exact same thing with about 3 g's, can't
remember the exact amount.
So I notice I don't get my monthly bill, and call them.
They had applied it to monthly payments far in advance.
Crazy, but good for them.

Sure.

I had them straighten that out, and retroactively too.

My wife pays the mortgage at the bank and makes sure it goes where it's
supposed to. She works there. ;-)

On 6/6/2011 10:25 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:09:49 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:40:55 -0500, "
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:56:58 -0400, Kurt wrote:

In ,
z wrote:


Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.


Never said it was the worst that could happen and you noted some
times where it might be good idea. Just don't like the banks pushing it
on everyone as a good idea as they have recently with some friends.

It's far better than sitting with a high-rate mortgage because you can't
afford the closing costs. After than, it's up to each individual to calculate
which offer is best for them.

Sometimes you have to coddle the banks along.
I called BOA for instructions on a 10 g principal payment.
The lady told me to write "Apply to Principal Only" in the memo
section of the check. That went fine.

They read the check?

About a year later I did the exact same thing with about 3 g's, can't
remember the exact amount.
So I notice I don't get my monthly bill, and call them.
They had applied it to monthly payments far in advance.
Crazy, but good for them.

Sure.

I had them straighten that out, and retroactively too.

My wife pays the mortgage at the bank and makes sure it goes where it's
supposed to. She works there. ;-)

My mortgage holder, which happens to be WF, sends a coupon with each
quarterly statement, in case you wanna do a pre-pay against principle. I
know I should, but I keep thinking I need to put the money directly into
house repairs, on the theory that owing X thousand on a fixed-up house
is better than owing W-Y thousand on a fixer-upper.

Dunno about their retail banking arm, but I have been pretty happy with
their mortgage arm. They ended up with the mortgage on my other place,
after it got resold a few times, and had the best offer when I bought
this place. Only one boo-boo in billing when adjusting escrow once, and
they quickly fixed it.
--
aem sends...

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 22:35:19 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

On 6/6/2011 10:25 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 21:09:49 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:40:55 -0500, "
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:56:58 -0400, Kurt wrote:

In ,
z wrote:


Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.


Never said it was the worst that could happen and you noted some
times where it might be good idea. Just don't like the banks pushing it
on everyone as a good idea as they have recently with some friends.

It's far better than sitting with a high-rate mortgage because you can't
afford the closing costs. After than, it's up to each individual to calculate
which offer is best for them.

Sometimes you have to coddle the banks along.
I called BOA for instructions on a 10 g principal payment.
The lady told me to write "Apply to Principal Only" in the memo
section of the check. That went fine.

They read the check?

About a year later I did the exact same thing with about 3 g's, can't
remember the exact amount.
So I notice I don't get my monthly bill, and call them.
They had applied it to monthly payments far in advance.
Crazy, but good for them.

Sure.

I had them straighten that out, and retroactively too.

My wife pays the mortgage at the bank and makes sure it goes where it's
supposed to. She works there. ;-)

My mortgage holder, which happens to be WF, sends a coupon with each
quarterly statement, in case you wanna do a pre-pay against principle. I
know I should, but I keep thinking I need to put the money directly into
house repairs, on the theory that owing X thousand on a fixed-up house
is better than owing W-Y thousand on a fixer-upper.

Been there. This time SWMBO demanded a new house. Guess what? There is more
work to be done on a new house than any I've had before. :-(

Dunno about their retail banking arm, but I have been pretty happy with
their mortgage arm. They ended up with the mortgage on my other place,
after it got resold a few times, and had the best offer when I bought
this place. Only one boo-boo in billing when adjusting escrow once, and
they quickly fixed it.

Yes, our last mortgage was with WF (bought the mortgage from Prudential). They
were pretty good about servicing the loan. Not as good as Prudential, but a
*lot* better than the thieves who owned our first mortgage. The only real
boo-boo they made was paying our taxes late. Well, it wasn't *late*, but only
because SWMBO is on top of such things.

In article ,
Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:40:55 -0500, "
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:56:58 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:


Again, I don't see this being the worst thing that could happen.


Never said it was the worst that could happen and you noted some
times where it might be good idea. Just don't like the banks pushing it
on everyone as a good idea as they have recently with some friends.

It's far better than sitting with a high-rate mortgage because you can't
afford the closing costs. After than, it's up to each individual to calculate
which offer is best for them.

Sometimes you have to coddle the banks along.
I called BOA for instructions on a 10 g principal payment.
The lady told me to write "Apply to Principal Only" in the memo
section of the check. That went fine.
About a year later I did the exact same thing with about 3 g's, can't
remember the exact amount.
So I notice I don't get my monthly bill, and call them.
They had applied it to monthly payments far in advance.
Crazy, but good for them.
I had them straighten that out, and retroactively too.

It took alot of complaining to get WaMu to even read the coupon. I
doubt they cared what was on the check beyond the amount.

After the penultimate payment they (now Chase) sent a payoff quote.
They want a cashier's check, a new and onerous requirement, which I
imagine was so they'd have an instrument that couldn't be reversed after
they file the reconveyance. But they also say that they'll make up any
shortage from the escrow acount which turns out has a balance of at least
twice the payoff amount. I failed to convince them to just take what
they needed from the escrow acount and refund the rest. Not even
pretending I paid them $0. Instead it had to be done the extra stupid
way. For the final months payment I sent them a regular personal check
for $X and they sent a check back for $2X.

m

In article ,
(Fake ID) wrote:

twice the payoff amount. I failed to convince them to just take what
they needed from the escrow acount and refund the rest. Not even
pretending I paid them $0. Instead it had to be done the extra stupid
way. For the final months payment I sent them a regular personal check
for $X and they sent a check back for $2X.

m

FWIW, generally they can't legally do that. Escrow accounts are things
put into the custody of a third party for delivery to the bank, etc.
only under the specific terms in the contract. Since the escrow account
was most likely for things like insurance and taxes, the money couldn't
be released for that purpose.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On 2011-06-08, Fake ID wrote:

It took alot of complaining to get WaMu to even read the coupon. I
doubt they cared what was on the check beyond the amount.

There's always been something fishy about Washington Mutual. As
recently as 5 yrs ago, you couldn't get a credit card from them.
What? You can get a Harley-Davidson or a Hello Kitty credit card, but
not your local bank? When they finally phoned to notify me they were
now offering cards, I passed.

nb

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
(Fake ID) wrote:

twice the payoff amount. I failed to convince them to just take what
they needed from the escrow acount and refund the rest. Not even
pretending I paid them $0. Instead it had to be done the extra stupid
way. For the final months payment I sent them a regular personal check
for $X and they sent a check back for $2X.


FWIW, generally they can't legally do that. Escrow accounts are things
put into the custody of a third party for delivery to the bank, etc.
only under the specific terms in the contract. Since the escrow account
was most likely for things like insurance and taxes, the money couldn't
be released for that purpose.

Right, the escrow account was for paying taxes and insurance.
Because they specifically said they would use escrow account to make up
any underpayment of the payoff I thought they'd be willing to take the
whole amount.

m

In article ,
(Fake ID) wrote:

FWIW, generally they can't legally do that. Escrow accounts are things
put into the custody of a third party for delivery to the bank, etc.
only under the specific terms in the contract. Since the escrow account
was most likely for things like insurance and taxes, the money couldn't
be released for that purpose.

Right, the escrow account was for paying taxes and insurance.
Because they specifically said they would use escrow account to make up
any underpayment of the payoff I thought they'd be willing to take the
whole amount.

m

Silly boy, the account was to protect THEM, not make your life easier
(grin). Thus it makes perfect sense.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz