Two carpenters and a landscapper no showed over the last
two days. This is in spite of my agreeing to pay their
bids. The first carpenter did not surprise me as he had
no showed last weekend. Expecting he'd make another
excuse, I had a back up plan, but the second carpenter
also no showed. The landscapper said he try to be here,
but never called.

The economy must be recovering!

Dick

On Apr 30, 4:03*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:14:34 +0000 (UTC), (Dick

Adams) wrote:
Two carpenters and a landscapper no showed over the last
two days. *This is in spite of my agreeing to pay their
bids. *The first carpenter did not surprise me as he had
no showed last weekend. *Expecting he'd make another
excuse, I had a back up plan, but the second carpenter
also no showed. *The landscapper said he try to be here,
but never called.

The economy must be recovering!

Dick

On the bright side, you haven't spent any money.

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? Did he just offer to pay them?
Around here, NJ quotes are usually free and it would
be mighty unusual to call a landscaper and two
carpenters and all 3 to say they would charge for a
quote.

But the no show part doesn't suprise me. I've engaged
with many contractors in the last couple years and
had similar experiences. You'd think in the current
economy they would be showing up, following up,
willing to negotiate, etc. Oddly, I haven't seen that.
They almost always show up to take a look, but then
I've had to chase them to get an actual quote or
follow questions they were to get back to me on,
etc. You'd think they would be calling me to try to
get the work, find out if I made a decision, etc. But
it almost never happens that way.

wrote

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? Did he just offer to pay them?


I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to knock
down the price. Whenever I bid a job, it was a fair price and if you don't
like it, thank you and goodbye. Once I negotiated down and I was unhappy
the entire time knowing I was making less than anticipated. Lesson learned.

I can see a contractor agreeing to a lower price and later not being happy,
thus the no show.





But the no show part doesn't suprise me. I've engaged
with many contractors in the last couple years and
had similar experiences. You'd think in the current
economy they would be showing up, following up,
willing to negotiate, etc. Oddly, I haven't seen that.


Seems like many of the really good tradesmen are still working. I know of
one that is booked for three months and only taking jobs from old customers.
Reasonable prices, very good work. Does not need to quibble about price.
He shows up too and rarely takkes a day away to finish other jobs.

On May 1, 8:08*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote



The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " *I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? * Did he just offer to pay them?

I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to knock
down the price.

Yes, re-reading it I agree with your interpretation. So, it
looks like they no showed to start and/or continue the
job. Which unfortunately a lot of contractors are known
for. Some of it is understandable, because they have
to try to keep the pipeline full and if the job they are on
runs into problems, takes longer, etc, they have to
push out. What there is no excuse for though is when
they do it and don't let you know ahead of time that
they aren't coming. Of if they do it repeatedly or put
you off for weeks....

On 5/1/2011 7:29 AM, wrote:
On Apr 30, 4:03 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:14:34 +0000 (UTC), (Dick

Adams) wrote:
Two carpenters and a landscapper no showed over the last
two days. This is in spite of my agreeing to pay their
bids. The first carpenter did not surprise me as he had
no showed last weekend. Expecting he'd make another
excuse, I had a back up plan, but the second carpenter
also no showed. The landscapper said he try to be here,
but never called.

The economy must be recovering!

Dick

On the bright side, you haven't spent any money.

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? Did he just offer to pay them?
Around here, NJ quotes are usually free and it would
be mighty unusual to call a landscaper and two
carpenters and all 3 to say they would charge for a
quote.

But the no show part doesn't suprise me. I've engaged
with many contractors in the last couple years and
had similar experiences. You'd think in the current
economy they would be showing up, following up,
willing to negotiate, etc. Oddly, I haven't seen that.
They almost always show up to take a look, but then
I've had to chase them to get an actual quote or
follow questions they were to get back to me on,
etc. You'd think they would be calling me to try to
get the work, find out if I made a decision, etc. But
it almost never happens that way.

I've almost given up on trying to get quotes for anything around here.
Either it is a no-show (most common), or a high-pressure salesman with
slick brochures shows up, or they (eventually) send me a high-ball bid
including stuff I didn't want. I mean, I understand that my jobs are
****-ant and wouldn't make them much money, but I know how few
construction starts there have been around here in the last few years.
Did all the underemployed tradesmen starve to death or move away already?

--
aem sends...

On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:14:34 +0000 (UTC), (Dick
Adams) wrote:

Two carpenters and a landscapper no showed over the last
two days. This is in spite of my agreeing to pay their
bids. The first carpenter did not surprise me as he had
no showed last weekend. Expecting he'd make another
excuse, I had a back up plan, but the second carpenter
also no showed. The landscapper said he try to be here,
but never called.

The economy must be recovering!

Dick

yeah i've seen this too. call 12 contractors and set up appts. 6 show
up. 3 get back with quotes. if you're lucky 1 will work

and they cry poverty

On Apr 30, 3:14*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:

The economy must be recovering!

Or, you didn't disguise well enough that you're a easy mark.
-----

- gpsman

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

wrote

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? Did he just offer to pay them?


I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to
knock down the price. Whenever I bid a job, it was a fair price and if
you don't like it, thank you and goodbye. Once I negotiated down and I
was unhappy the entire time knowing I was making less than anticipated.
Lesson learned.

I can see a contractor agreeing to a lower price and later not being
happy, thus the no show.

When I was doing iron work, if the customer complained about the price or
terms or tried to beat me down, I'd just be nice, leave soon, and put an X
on the upper corner of the proposal. This meant do not do any work for this
person in any case. If they pound you down on the basics, they will pick
apart everything else. A proposal is just that, and worth less than the
paper form it is written on. It is not a contract (in most states) until
accepted, signed by the buyer, returned to the contractor, and deposit made,
or terms agreed upon.

If they called, I just told them that I had some big contracts come in, and
would be busy for months. I then had them call back later complaining of
what a bad job their BIL or the alien down the street did, and could I come
fix/finish the job. I would tell them how sorry I was, and that being a
licensed contractor with no complaints at the Contractors Board that I
guaranteed all my work 100%.

There are all sorts of reasons for contractors to no show or fail to
perform. And lots of times, we don't hear the whole story, or at least the
other side. But when it all falls into place, and everyone's happy, there's
usually a few very good reasons for that, and we don't often hear about the
cases where there is negotiation, cooperation, and working together on fine
issues.

MHO, YMMV, and all that .............

Steve, ex steel erection contractor.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide

On Sun, 1 May 2011 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 1, 8:08*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote



The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " *I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? * Did he just offer to pay them?

I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to knock
down the price.

Yes, re-reading it I agree with your interpretation. So, it
looks like they no showed to start and/or continue the
job. Which unfortunately a lot of contractors are known
for. Some of it is understandable, because they have
to try to keep the pipeline full and if the job they are on
runs into problems, takes longer, etc, they have to
push out. What there is no excuse for though is when
they do it and don't let you know ahead of time that
they aren't coming. Of if they do it repeatedly or put
you off for weeks....

There is no excuse for not notifying the customer, as far in advance as
possible, that they're not going to show. They didn't figure out that another
job was running over the day after. It's a good reason to fire a contractor.

On Sun, 01 May 2011 08:18:43 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

On 5/1/2011 7:29 AM, wrote:
On Apr 30, 4:03 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:14:34 +0000 (UTC), (Dick

Adams) wrote:
Two carpenters and a landscapper no showed over the last
two days. This is in spite of my agreeing to pay their
bids. The first carpenter did not surprise me as he had
no showed last weekend. Expecting he'd make another
excuse, I had a back up plan, but the second carpenter
also no showed. The landscapper said he try to be here,
but never called.

The economy must be recovering!

Dick

On the bright side, you haven't spent any money.

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? Did he just offer to pay them?
Around here, NJ quotes are usually free and it would
be mighty unusual to call a landscaper and two
carpenters and all 3 to say they would charge for a
quote.

But the no show part doesn't suprise me. I've engaged
with many contractors in the last couple years and
had similar experiences. You'd think in the current
economy they would be showing up, following up,
willing to negotiate, etc. Oddly, I haven't seen that.
They almost always show up to take a look, but then
I've had to chase them to get an actual quote or
follow questions they were to get back to me on,
etc. You'd think they would be calling me to try to
get the work, find out if I made a decision, etc. But
it almost never happens that way.

I've almost given up on trying to get quotes for anything around here.
Either it is a no-show (most common), or a high-pressure salesman with
slick brochures shows up, or they (eventually) send me a high-ball bid
including stuff I didn't want. I mean, I understand that my jobs are
****-ant and wouldn't make them much money, but I know how few
construction starts there have been around here in the last few years.
Did all the underemployed tradesmen starve to death or move away already?

They're "busy" for another 99 weeks.

On May 1, 11:18*am, "
wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2011 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On May 1, 8:08*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " *I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? * Did he just offer to pay them?

I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to knock
down the price.

Yes, re-reading it I agree with your interpretation. *So, it
looks like they no showed to start and/or continue the
job. *Which unfortunately a lot of contractors are known
for. *Some of it is understandable, because they have
to try to keep the pipeline full and if the job they are on
runs into problems, takes longer, etc, they have to
push out. * What there is no excuse for though is when
they do it and don't let you know ahead of time that
they aren't coming. *Of if they do it repeatedly or put
you off for weeks....

There is no excuse for not notifying the customer, as far in advance as
possible, that they're not going to show. *They didn't figure out that another
job was running over the day after. *It's a good reason to fire a contractor.


Was the OP actually a customer, or did he just agree to the
proposed price without putting down a deposit...

With things the way they are, customers who pay get the work
and customers who nit-pick and waiver are allowed to stew a
bit until they realize that they (the customer) are the problem
and not the contractor...

~~ Evan

On Sun, 1 May 2011 09:10:04 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 1, 11:18*am, "
wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2011 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On May 1, 8:08*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " *I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? * Did he just offer to pay them?

I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to knock
down the price.

Yes, re-reading it I agree with your interpretation. *So, it
looks like they no showed to start and/or continue the
job. *Which unfortunately a lot of contractors are known
for. *Some of it is understandable, because they have
to try to keep the pipeline full and if the job they are on
runs into problems, takes longer, etc, they have to
push out. * What there is no excuse for though is when
they do it and don't let you know ahead of time that
they aren't coming. *Of if they do it repeatedly or put
you off for weeks....

There is no excuse for not notifying the customer, as far in advance as
possible, that they're not going to show. *They didn't figure out that another
job was running over the day after. *It's a good reason to fire a contractor.


Was the OP actually a customer, or did he just agree to the
proposed price without putting down a deposit...

He was expecting them to show, so he was a customer. Whether there was a
deposit, or not, isn't germane.

With things the way they are, customers who pay get the work
and customers who nit-pick and waiver are allowed to stew a
bit until they realize that they (the customer) are the problem
and not the contractor...

That's certainly true during boom times. Evidently contractors aren't hungry
enough.

On 5/1/2011 11:10 AM, Evan wrote:
On May 1, 11:18 am, "
wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2011 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On May 1, 8:08 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? Did he just offer to pay them?

I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to knock
down the price.

Yes, re-reading it I agree with your interpretation. So, it
looks like they no showed to start and/or continue the
job. Which unfortunately a lot of contractors are known
for. Some of it is understandable, because they have
to try to keep the pipeline full and if the job they are on
runs into problems, takes longer, etc, they have to
push out. What there is no excuse for though is when
they do it and don't let you know ahead of time that
they aren't coming. Of if they do it repeatedly or put
you off for weeks....

There is no excuse for not notifying the customer, as far in advance as
possible, that they're not going to show. They didn't figure out that another
job was running over the day after. It's a good reason to fire a contractor.


Was the OP actually a customer, or did he just agree to the
proposed price without putting down a deposit...

With things the way they are, customers who pay get the work
and customers who nit-pick and waiver are allowed to stew a
bit until they realize that they (the customer) are the problem
and not the contractor...

~~ Evan

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there would be NO deposit. I pay nothing until material is on the site
and/or work at least partially done.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"Steve Barker" wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor, there
would be NO deposit. I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.
Steve Barker


One size does not fit all. That is not true for all crafts.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide

On Apr 30, 2:14*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:
Two carpenters and a landscapper no showed over the last
two days. *This is in spite of my agreeing to pay their
bids. *The first carpenter did not surprise me as he had
no showed last weekend. *Expecting he'd make another
excuse, I had a back up plan, but the second carpenter
also no showed. *The landscapper said he try to be here,
but never called.

The economy must be recovering!

Dick

That's why they call them "independent contractors". :^}

On Sun, 1 May 2011 12:30:22 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Steve Barker" wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor, there
would be NO deposit. I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.
Steve Barker


One size does not fit all. That is not true for all crafts.

It's a regional/customary thing. The size of the project has a lot to do with
it, too.

On May 1, 12:56*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 5/1/2011 11:10 AM, Evan wrote:









On May 1, 11:18 am, "
*wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2011 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT), "

*wrote:
On May 1, 8:08 am, "Ed *wrote:
*wrote

The part that's most interesting is "This is in spite of my
agreeing to pay their bids. " *I don't know what exactly
that means, but I'm assuming it means he agreed to
pay them for quotes? * Did he just offer to pay them?

I took it as he was willing to pay the quoted price and did not try to knock
down the price.

Yes, re-reading it I agree with your interpretation. *So, it
looks like they no showed to start and/or continue the
job. *Which unfortunately a lot of contractors are known
for. *Some of it is understandable, because they have
to try to keep the pipeline full and if the job they are on
runs into problems, takes longer, etc, they have to
push out. * What there is no excuse for though is when
they do it and don't let you know ahead of time that
they aren't coming. *Of if they do it repeatedly or put
you off for weeks....

There is no excuse for not notifying the customer, as far in advance as
possible, that they're not going to show. *They didn't figure out that another
job was running over the day after. *It's a good reason to fire a contractor.

Was the OP actually a customer, or did he just agree to the
proposed price without putting down a deposit...

With things the way they are, customers who pay get the work
and customers who nit-pick and waiver are allowed to stew a
bit until they realize that they (the customer) are the problem
and not the contractor...

~~ Evan

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there would be NO deposit. *I pay nothing until material is on the site
and/or work at least partially done.

I understand the sentiment, but as someone said one size does not fit
all. If you're talking about some little dinky project, fine, no
deposit. But if it's something substantial you can be rootin' tootin'
sure that I'm getting a deposit when the contract is signed. It's
good business.

If you're painting a couple rooms in a house, there's not a lot of
upfront set up time and expenses, but if you're adding on a room,
redoing a kitchen, building cabinetry or whatever, there's quite a bit
of legwork that takes place before the actual first day of
construction.

It's also interesting that most states and municipalities have
codified what the maximum deposit can be. If your scenario was the
standard, that maximum deposit would have been codified at zero.

R

On Apr 30, 3:14*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:
Two carpenters and a landscapper no showed over the last
two days. *This is in spite of my agreeing to pay their
bids. *The first carpenter did not surprise me as he had
no showed last weekend. *Expecting he'd make another
excuse, I had a back up plan, but the second carpenter
also no showed. *The landscapper said he try to be here,
but never called.

The economy must be recovering!

S'truth to that. It was a nice day yesterday, so I took a toodle
around on my bike, and there's a boatload of construction going on
around here. It surprised me how much. I guess there has been a pent
up demand that broke loose with the good weather.

R

A phone call really means a lot, in cases like this.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

There is no excuse for not notifying the customer, as far in
advance as
possible, that they're not going to show. They didn't
figure out that another
job was running over the day after. It's a good reason to
fire a contractor.

On May 1, 10:19*am, gpsman wrote:
On Apr 30, 3:14*pm, (Dick Adams) wrote:



The economy must be recovering!

Or, you didn't disguise well enough that you're a easy mark.
*-----

- gpsman

Huh? What does that mean?

If the OP was an easy mark, wouldn't he have been ripped off in some
way, other than his time?

What's to gain by having an "easy mark" agree to your price but then
not show up to take his money?

On 5/1/2011 2:30 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Steve wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor, there
would be NO deposit. I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.
Steve Barker


One size does not fit all. That is not true for all crafts.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide



it's true for ANY craft working for ME.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 5/1/2011 2:30 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Steve wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there
would be NO deposit. I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.
Steve Barker


One size does not fit all. That is not true for all crafts.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide



it's true for ANY craft working for ME.

--
Steve Barker

I used to do custom welding work. One off mixed exotic metal gates. Plasma
cutting. Curved designs. Multiple mixed medias. If the customer had any
reason to cancel the job, I could not sell the piece because it would not
fit anywhere else. I am currently negotiating the restoration of a piece of
Margaret Tafoya pottery piece with a gallery restoration service. That fee
would have to be paid in advance, and the estimates so far is from $1800 to
$3000. You are apparently not as aware of how things work in the real world
as you purport to be, or willing to hear of anything outside your small
fishbowl.

Steve

On May 2, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
On 5/1/2011 2:30 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Steve *wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there
would be NO deposit. *I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.

One size does not fit all. *That is not true for all crafts.

it's true for ANY craft working for ME.

I used to do custom welding work. *One off mixed exotic metal gates. *Plasma
cutting. *Curved designs. *Multiple mixed medias. *If the customer had any
reason to cancel the job, I could not sell the piece because it would not
fit anywhere else. *I am currently negotiating the restoration of a piece of
Margaret Tafoya pottery piece with a gallery restoration service. *That fee
would have to be paid in advance, and the estimates so far is from $1800 to
$3000. *You are apparently not as aware of how things work in the real world
as you purport to be, or willing to hear of anything outside your small
fishbowl.

Steve, not you, the other one - hehe - decided no one is to be
trusted, but they're supposed to trust him. That's fine. His house,
his money, his call. A job doesn't get put on my schedule unless
someone puts money in my hands. It's like earnest money in real
estate - a sign of good faith. If you don't trust me there's no point
in me doing the job - it's a losing battle from the get go.

R

On Sun, 1 May 2011 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:


What's to gain by having an "easy mark" agree to your price but then
not show up to take his money?

Heh.
Last summer I had my floors sanded.
Couple of Polish guys recommended by my son.
I don't know if they're legal, but they've been around for a few
years.
When the boss man came out to look he said $450.
I said do it. The guy's English was so-so.
They did an excellent sanding job and put down a coat of poly.
Floors looked beautiful and both the wife and me were shocked.
I didn't think to ask about coats, and I think the price he gave me
was for one coat. Still not sure about that.
My wife speaks Polish and talked the guy when they finished.
She wanted to know what's best, and he told her 3 coats.
But I got the impression the deal was one coat.
I told her to tell him to do 3 coats and I'll pay him $550.
She told him that.
He can't say when he'll show up the next day.
I told him to call me when he's on the way over to do the next coat.
I'm sure he understood me.
Dogs wake me up early the next day, and they're ringing the bell.
They go over the first coat with the sander, vacuum and lay down a
second coat.
He can't say when he'll come the next day.
I tell the guy again to call me when he's on the way to do the third
coat.
Again the dogs and doorbell wake me up.
They vacuum and lay down the last coat in about 15 minutes.
The boss shouts down to the basement that they're done and I go around
the house to the front with my checkbook.
I'm still groggy and haven't had my coffee.
I compliment them on the job and say I'm paying $600.
Then I write him a check for $500 and they leave.
After I had my coffee I realize what I did, and call the guy and
apologize, tell him to come back and get another hundred.
As far as I know, he understood, but after a couple days of no show
I call him again and tell him the same.
He never showed.
Beats the hell out of me why not. My wife said he seemed a little
goofy. I got nothing against goofy doing a smart job.
Besides me wanting to pay a fair price for their work, which I thought
he underbid, my wife had talked to the guy about putting up crown
molding and he said he would get back to us on that.
He never did, and I did the woodwork myself.

On up front money for some work, I expect that.
I paid the roofer for materials before he started, and I paid the guy
who replaced all my windows for his costs before he started.
Seems normal to me and I don't see a way around that.
You don't do that with a fly-by-night, and should have references.

--Vic

On May 2, 1:04*am, RicodJour wrote:
On May 2, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:





"Steve Barker" wrote in message
On 5/1/2011 2:30 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Steve *wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there
would be NO deposit. *I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.

One size does not fit all. *That is not true for all crafts.

it's true for ANY craft working for ME.

I used to do custom welding work. *One off mixed exotic metal gates. *Plasma
cutting. *Curved designs. *Multiple mixed medias. *If the customer had any
reason to cancel the job, I could not sell the piece because it would not
fit anywhere else. *I am currently negotiating the restoration of a piece of
Margaret Tafoya pottery piece with a gallery restoration service. *That fee
would have to be paid in advance, and the estimates so far is from $1800 to
$3000. *You are apparently not as aware of how things work in the real world
as you purport to be, or willing to hear of anything outside your small
fishbowl.

Steve, not you, the other one - hehe - decided no one is to be
trusted, but they're supposed to trust him. *That's fine. *His house,
his money, his call. *A job doesn't get put on my schedule unless
someone puts money in my hands. *It's like earnest money in real
estate - a sign of good faith. *If you don't trust me there's no point
in me doing the job - it's a losing battle from the get go.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My biggest surprise was when I went out for quotes on a new
furnace/AC. One company that's been around for decades
didn't want anything down, nothing at eqpt delivery. They just
wanted to be paid when the job was done. That seemed
crazy on their part to me. Which just goes to show, it varies.

On May 2, 8:02*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2011 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

wrote:

What's to gain by having an "easy mark" agree to your price but then
not show up to take his money?

Heh.
Last summer I had my floors sanded.
Couple of Polish guys recommended by my son.
I don't know if they're legal, but they've been around for a few
years.
When the boss man came out to look he said $450.
I said do it. *The guy's English was so-so.
They did an excellent sanding job and put down a coat of poly.
Floors looked beautiful and both the wife and me were shocked.
I didn't think to ask about coats, and I think the price he gave me
was for one coat. *Still not sure about that.
My wife speaks Polish and talked the guy when they finished.
She wanted to know what's best, and he told her 3 coats.
But I got the impression the deal was one coat.
I told her to tell him to do 3 coats and I'll pay him $550.
She told him that.
He can't say when he'll show up the next day.
I told him to call me when he's on the way over to do the next coat.
I'm sure he understood me.
Dogs wake me up early the next day, and they're ringing the bell.
They go over the first coat with the sander, vacuum and lay down a
second coat.
He can't say when he'll come the next day.
I tell the guy again to call me when he's on the way to do the third
coat.
Again the dogs and doorbell wake me up.
They vacuum and lay down the last coat in about 15 minutes.
The boss shouts down to the basement that they're done and I go around
the house to the front with my checkbook.
I'm still groggy and haven't had my coffee.
I compliment them on the job and say I'm paying $600.
Then I write him a check for $500 and they leave.
After I had my coffee I realize what I did, and call the guy and
apologize, tell him to come back and get another hundred.
As far as I know, he understood, but after a couple days of no show
I call him again and tell him the same.
He never showed.
Beats the hell out of me why not. *My wife said he seemed a little
goofy. *I got nothing against goofy doing a smart job.
Besides me wanting to pay a fair price for their work, which I thought
he underbid, my wife had talked to the guy about putting up crown
molding and he said he would get back to us on that.
He never did, and I did the woodwork myself.

On up front money for some work, I expect that.
I paid the roofer for materials before he started, and I paid the guy
who replaced all my windows for his costs before he started.
Seems normal to me and I don't see a way around that.
You don't do that with a fly-by-night, and should have references.

--Vic

Nice story and very commendable on your part, but what does it have to
do with my question regarding an "easy mark"?

On May 2, 8:10*am, "
wrote:
On May 2, 1:04*am, RicodJour wrote:





On May 2, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
On 5/1/2011 2:30 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Steve *wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there
would be NO deposit. *I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.

One size does not fit all. *That is not true for all crafts.

it's true for ANY craft working for ME.

I used to do custom welding work. *One off mixed exotic metal gates.. *Plasma
cutting. *Curved designs. *Multiple mixed medias. *If the customer had any
reason to cancel the job, I could not sell the piece because it would not
fit anywhere else. *I am currently negotiating the restoration of a piece of
Margaret Tafoya pottery piece with a gallery restoration service. *That fee
would have to be paid in advance, and the estimates so far is from $1800 to
$3000. *You are apparently not as aware of how things work in the real world
as you purport to be, or willing to hear of anything outside your small
fishbowl.

Steve, not you, the other one - hehe - decided no one is to be
trusted, but they're supposed to trust him. *That's fine. *His house,
his money, his call. *A job doesn't get put on my schedule unless
someone puts money in my hands. *It's like earnest money in real
estate - a sign of good faith. *If you don't trust me there's no point
in me doing the job - it's a losing battle from the get go.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My biggest surprise was when I went out for quotes on a new
furnace/AC. *One company that's been around for decades
didn't want anything down, nothing at eqpt delivery. *They just
wanted to be paid when the job was done. *That seemed
crazy on their part to me. *Which just goes to show, it varies.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"That seemed crazy on their part to me."

After being around for decades, maybe that have an in with the utility
company.

You don't pay, it doesn't heat/cool. ;-)

BTW - Were they the best option?

On Mon, 2 May 2011 11:52:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On May 2, 8:02Â*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2011 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

wrote:

What's to gain by having an "easy mark" agree to your price but then
not show up to take his money?


After I had my coffee I realize what I did, and call the guy and
apologize, tell him to come back and get another hundred.
As far as I know, he understood, but after a couple days of no show
I call him again and tell him the same.
He never showed.


Nice story and very commendable on your part, but what does it have to
do with my question regarding an "easy mark"?

What, the story has to match exactly?
I just matched the "not show up to take his money" part.
That's all I got. Sorry.

--Vic

On May 2, 3:09*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2011 11:52:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03





wrote:
On May 2, 8:02*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 1 May 2011 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

wrote:

What's to gain by having an "easy mark" agree to your price but then
not show up to take his money?

After I had my coffee I realize what I did, and call the guy and
apologize, tell him to come back and get another hundred.
As far as I know, he understood, but after a couple days of no show
I call him again and tell him the same.
He never showed.

Nice story and very commendable on your part, but what does it have to
do with my question regarding an "easy mark"?

What, the story has to match exactly?
I just matched the "not show up to take his money" part.
That's all I got. *Sorry.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Perhaps you missed the point of my question, but it's not worth
pursuing.

In any case, classy move on your part in trying to get the contractor
his money.

On Mon, 2 May 2011 05:10:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 2, 1:04*am, RicodJour wrote:
On May 2, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:





"Steve Barker" wrote in message
On 5/1/2011 2:30 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Steve *wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there
would be NO deposit. *I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.

One size does not fit all. *That is not true for all crafts.

it's true for ANY craft working for ME.

I used to do custom welding work. *One off mixed exotic metal gates. *Plasma
cutting. *Curved designs. *Multiple mixed medias. *If the customer had any
reason to cancel the job, I could not sell the piece because it would not
fit anywhere else. *I am currently negotiating the restoration of a piece of
Margaret Tafoya pottery piece with a gallery restoration service. *That fee
would have to be paid in advance, and the estimates so far is from $1800 to
$3000. *You are apparently not as aware of how things work in the real world
as you purport to be, or willing to hear of anything outside your small
fishbowl.

Steve, not you, the other one - hehe - decided no one is to be
trusted, but they're supposed to trust him. *That's fine. *His house,
his money, his call. *A job doesn't get put on my schedule unless
someone puts money in my hands. *It's like earnest money in real
estate - a sign of good faith. *If you don't trust me there's no point
in me doing the job - it's a losing battle from the get go.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My biggest surprise was when I went out for quotes on a new
furnace/AC. One company that's been around for decades
didn't want anything down, nothing at eqpt delivery. They just
wanted to be paid when the job was done. That seemed
crazy on their part to me. Which just goes to show, it varies.

They're established and well funded (can afford the float). Don't think they
won't put a lien on the house if the bill isn't paid.

On May 1, 3:30*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor, there
would be NO deposit. *I pay nothing until material is on the site and/or
work at least partially done.
Steve Barker

One size does not fit all. *That is not true for all crafts.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide


Right... Some jobs require 1/3rd deposit upon signing
the paperwork to engage the services of the contractor...

Then another 1/3rd about midpoint of the work...

Then the balance is due upon completion and receiving
the sign off from the inspector...

For smaller projects you wouldn't necessarily do that,
but until you put ink to paper and sign the quote agreeing
to the contractor's terms -- you aren't legally a customer...

Verbal agreements are just that... Usually not binding
and open to various interpretations by either party...

~~ Evan

On May 2, 8:10*am, "
wrote:

My biggest surprise was when I went out for quotes on a new
furnace/AC. *One company that's been around for decades
didn't want anything down, nothing at eqpt delivery. *They just
wanted to be paid when the job was done. *That seemed
crazy on their part to me. *Which just goes to show, it varies.

The guys I use have the unit delivered and swap it out the same day.
Rarely if ever does it take two days for a direct replacement. How
long did your install take?

R

"Mark LeFevre" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 May 2011 18:19:05 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 1, 3:30 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote

if he was a savvy customer, and working with a reputable contractor,
there
would be NO deposit. I pay nothing until material is on the site
and/or
work at least partially done.
Steve Barker

One size does not fit all. That is not true for all crafts.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide


Right... Some jobs require 1/3rd deposit upon signing
the paperwork to engage the services of the contractor...

Then another 1/3rd about midpoint of the work...

Then the balance is due upon completion and receiving
the sign off from the inspector...

For smaller projects you wouldn't necessarily do that,
but until you put ink to paper and sign the quote agreeing
to the contractor's terms -- you aren't legally a customer...

Verbal agreements are just that... Usually not binding
and open to various interpretations by either party...

~~ Evan
Never pay a contractor "up front". Offer to escrow funds and if the
contractor refuses, it only confirms that he/she is a marginal
contractor and may not be able to finish the job even when paid early.
Many of these small outfits use funds paid up front to finance the
completion of existing projects, and then go bust with your money and
no work completed.

What is the weather like where you are? It's 75 and sunny here. WHAT, IT'S
NOT LIKE THAT WHERE YOU LIVE?

PREPOSTEROUS!

Making blanket statements is silly.

In Nevada, merely offering to do work for a price rather than an hourly rate
constitutes contracting without a license if that person is not licensed,
and it is a felony. No money has to change hands, no documents need be
signed, and no work has to be performed. So, in Nevada, a mere verbal offer
is considered a contract by the State of Nevada, whereas other states
require offer an acceptance, a deposit to make it a deal, the starting of
work, etc.

So, everyone, please take these Internet blanket statements as worth the
paper they are written on. Find out what it actually is in your
jurisdiction.

As per paying in front, that is a practice that is questionable. However,
if you have a good referral from someone who this person has done work, or
has seen their work, and like it, one may want to pay something up front to
get a good craftsman rather than playing Gypsy Roulette. I have been on
both sides of this, both as a contractor and a consumer. I weigh all the
aspects, then decide. I have no problem with progress payments, which is a
very good way to go. I cannot see any project where paying in full is
acceptable, though.

Then there are two scenarios. One is where the homeowner is clueless, and
takes whoever answers the ad at face value. They are inexperienced at what
they want done, and are for the most part ignorant of the process. Second,
is a homeowner who knows what has to be done, has a reasonable idea of the
time frame and other expectations, and who is possibly dealing with someone
they know or has been referred to by a friend, and there is some record of
work history.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide