I'm am remodeling my 30+ year old kitchen and am having an issue with
the removal of the flooring. It originally had a sheet of vinyl
flooring, in which someone added on top a layer of 1 ft square stick-
on tiles. I am trying remove both layers to get down to the
subfloor. Unforunately, when I try to remove the sheet vinyl, only
the top section comes off, leaving a paper composit material glued to
the floor. Basically the sheet vinyl comes apart, so I can only
remove the top of the vinyl, thus leaving this paper composit
material.

two questions:
A: Is there an easy way to remove this paper composite from the
subfloor?

B: I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the
subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of
this paper composit material?

Rob

On Apr 18, 7:58*pm, rlz wrote:
I'm am remodeling my 30+ year old kitchen and am having an issue with
the removal of the flooring. *It originally had a sheet of vinyl
flooring, in which someone added on top a layer of 1 ft square stick-
on tiles. *I am trying remove both layers to get down to the
subfloor. *Unforunately, when I try to remove the sheet vinyl, only
the top section comes off, leaving a paper composit material glued to
the floor. *Basically the sheet vinyl comes apart, so I can only
remove the top of the vinyl, thus leaving this paper composit
material.

two questions:
A: *Is there an easy way to remove this paper composite from the
subfloor?

B: *I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the
subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of
this paper composit material?

Rob

use a circular saw to cut the underlayment all the way thru, if
necessary replace the sub floor/

if theres ANY motion in the floor at all the tile will crack!

Ceramic tile is forever, do the prep work properly!

On Apr 18, 7:18*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 18, 7:58*pm, rlz wrote:



I'm am remodeling my 30+ year old kitchen and am having an issue with
the removal of the flooring. *It originally had a sheet of vinyl
flooring, in which someone added on top a layer of 1 ft square stick-
on tiles. *I am trying remove both layers to get down to the
subfloor. *Unforunately, when I try to remove the sheet vinyl, only
the top section comes off, leaving a paper composit material glued to
the floor. *Basically the sheet vinyl comes apart, so I can only
remove the top of the vinyl, thus leaving this paper composit
material.

two questions:
A: *Is there an easy way to remove this paper composite from the
subfloor?

B: *I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the
subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of
this paper composit material?

Rob

use a circular saw to cut the underlayment all the way thru, if
necessary replace the sub floor/

if theres ANY motion in the floor at all the tile will crack!

Ceramic tile is forever, do the prep work properly!

2nd that. Whichever way you look at it, this job is going to be much
harder than you first thought, but in the long run doing it properly
is much easier than shortcutting. You don't say what you are using to
remove the vinyl, but I would at least try it with a heavy duty
scraper (one of the heavy metal poles with a sharp edge) first.
However you get it up, you are going to have to go with a proper base
(google it) on top of the plywood anyway, unless you want to be
dealing with cracked tiles and joints for the rest of your time with
this floor.

On Apr 18, 8:49*pm, Suzy Watson wrote:
On Apr 18, 7:18*pm, bob haller wrote:





On Apr 18, 7:58*pm, rlz wrote:

I'm am remodeling my 30+ year old kitchen and am having an issue with
the removal of the flooring. *It originally had a sheet of vinyl
flooring, in which someone added on top a layer of 1 ft square stick-
on tiles. *I am trying remove both layers to get down to the
subfloor. *Unforunately, when I try to remove the sheet vinyl, only
the top section comes off, leaving a paper composit material glued to
the floor. *Basically the sheet vinyl comes apart, so I can only
remove the top of the vinyl, thus leaving this paper composit
material.

two questions:
A: *Is there an easy way to remove this paper composite from the
subfloor?

B: *I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the
subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of
this paper composit material?

Rob

use a circular saw to cut the underlayment all the way thru, if
necessary replace the sub floor/

if theres ANY motion in the floor at all the tile will crack!

Ceramic tile is forever, do the prep work properly!

2nd that. *Whichever way you look at it, this job is going to be much
harder than you first thought, but in the long run doing it properly
is much easier than shortcutting. *You don't say what you are using to
remove the vinyl, but I would at least try it with a heavy duty
scraper (one of the heavy metal poles with a sharp edge) first.
However you get it up, you are going to have to go with a proper base
(google it) on top of the plywood anyway, unless you want to be
dealing with cracked tiles and joints for the rest of your time with
this floor.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

be aware the tile and adhesive may contain asbestos...

at least clean the sub floor, secure it very well, then put down
concrete board, and cement edges.

theres a layer you can add forget the name, that prevents cracks.

with ceramic tile proper prep prevents doing the entire job over again

Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles
on top.

bob haller wrote:

be aware the tile and adhesive may contain asbestos...

And this is important because...?

Mikepier wrote:
Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles
on top.

That's my vote.

To the OP (rlz) who wrote,

"B: I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the
subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of
this paper composit material?"

By "mortar bed", do you mean the old fashioned 1"-2" mortar beds that used
to be used for abthroom sub floors etc?

On Apr 19, 2:37*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
Mikepier wrote:
Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles
on top.

That's my vote.

To the OP (rlz) who wrote,

"B: *I'm going to put down cerarim tiles in a mortar bed on top of the
subfloor, is there any problem with just putting the mortar on top of
this paper composit material?"


By "mortar bed", do you mean the old fashioned 1"-2" mortar beds that used
to be used for abthroom sub floors etc?

Man, I hope not! Isn't that why they invented cement board?

I tore up a bathroom floor that had a 2"+ mortar bed. What a mess!

Interesting find when I did that:

The 1" tiles right in front of the sink had started to pop. I assumed
that since it was the highest traffic area, they had just given out.
Once I tore up the floor I discovered what was probably the root
cause.

Everywhere in the house (as far as I know) the floor joists are 16"
OC. However, from some reason, directly in front of the sink there was
a space of 24" between the 2 joists. So, basically, there was no
support under the sub-floor in the very spot where people had been
standing for 30 years.

If the builder had to make up for an error or something by spacing 2
joists 24" OC, why choose such a high traffic spot?

Mikepier wrote in :

Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles
on top.


That's the only way to do it IMO. As mentioned, floor flex will
eventually cause tile cracks and/or grout popping. You need to undercut
door jambs, trim doors, remove & replace base molding for a pro look.

As far as the Hardibacker, FOLLOW THIS.

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner...rterInch.shtml
http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner...install-us.pdf


[Timeslide 2 yrs forward]

Problems? Go back to the above link and start from skipped steps.

On 4/19/2011 6:43 AM, Mikepier wrote:
Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles
on top.


That will make the floor way too tall. Do like the others said, and
strip the floor to the plywood, and build back.

--
aem sends...

On Apr 19, 7:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
bob haller wrote:

be aware the tile and adhesive may contain asbestos...

And this is important because...?

well it might be a health hazard

aemeijers wrote:
On 4/19/2011 6:43 AM, Mikepier wrote:
Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles
on top.


That will make the floor way too tall. Do like the others said, and
strip the floor to the plywood, and build back.

the OP didn't say what the subfloor is, or how thick it is.

On 4/19/2011 7:13 PM, chaniarts wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
On 4/19/2011 6:43 AM, Mikepier wrote:
Leave the paper, put down 1/4" Hardibacker boards, then put the tiles
on top.


That will make the floor way too tall. Do like the others said, and
strip the floor to the plywood, and build back.

the OP didn't say what the subfloor is, or how thick it is.



If house was built mid 50s until 1990ish, I'd bet a six-pack it is
particle board underlayment over plywood or diagonal 1x4 subfloor. The
old underlayment needs to come up for a top-quality job. Exposing
subfloor also allows you to screw the hell out of it, which stiffens
floor and cuts down squeaks.

--
aem sends...

bob haller wrote:
On Apr 19, 7:21 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
bob haller wrote:

be aware the tile and adhesive may contain asbestos...

And this is important because...?

well it might be a health hazard

Oh.

Well, you're not supposed to EAT the used adhesive. Other than that, I just
don't see a problem.

On 4/19/2011 8:27 PM, HeyBub wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Apr 19, 7:21 am, wrote:
bob haller wrote:

be aware the tile and adhesive may contain asbestos...

And this is important because...?

well it might be a health hazard

Oh.

Well, you're not supposed to EAT the used adhesive. Other than that, I just
don't see a problem.



Oh, there are fools out there that will try to use a floor sander to get
the adhesive lumps and broken-off corners of tile off the old
underlayment, and fill the entire house with (slightly) asbestos-bearing
dust. Yet another reason to pull up the underlayment, and start over
from subfloor level. Score the underlayment with a junk skilsaw between
the nail rows (after dampening with a spray bottle to keep down dust, of
course), and go at it with a couple of Stanley flatbars and a BFH until
you get an edge started. Assuming the cabinets are out, an entire room
should strip out in a couple of hours.

--
aem sends...