This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.


Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. Let it
drain, put back the petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?


P.S. I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. Which
does?

On Feb 19, 6:02*pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. *This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. * *Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. * Let it
drain, put back the *petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. *Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? *How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. * *I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. *But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. *Which
does?

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.
If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought, the pump would push any air locks
out. Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?
Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

On Feb 19, 1:55*pm, harry wrote:
On Feb 19, 6:02*pm, mm wrote:




I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.
If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought, the pump would push any air locks
out. *Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?
Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

You really know your Mitsubishi engines, don't you?

On Feb 19, 1:02*pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. *This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. * *Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. * Let it
drain, put back the *petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. *Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? *How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. * *I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. *But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. *Which
does?

you only drained the radiator, not the block. There may or may not be
a block drain. It probably isn't a petcock but a pipe plug (although
you can replace it with a petcock if you can find one the right size.)

When refilling, you should always use concentrated antifreeze, put 1/2
the printed capacity of your cooling system in there then fill with
water. Reason being you never can drain the entire cooling system,
and you want to make sure that you have the proper mixture in there.
Right now, you probably don't - you probably have mostly water because
you flushed it.

nate

In article
,
harry wrote:


I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:55:29 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 19, 6:02*pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. *This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. * *Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. * Let it
drain, put back the *petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. *Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? *How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. * *I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. *But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. *Which
does?

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore.

3 or 4 years ago, I was going to get the long-life antifreeze, 5 years
iirc, until I read the label and it said that there couldn't be any of
the regular kind in the system for it to be long-life, that if there
was some, the new stuff would only last 2 years.

AFAIK everyone diligent still changes their antifreeze every 2 or 5
years.

I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Old antifreeze is as good as new antifreeze about not freezing, but
there are anti-corrosion and lubricating additives, and maybe others
that they say deteriorate. I would think that the anti-corrosion
additives combine with whatever causes corrosion and thus gets used
up. Just came across a web page that claimed the increased number of
aluminum parts required more continued anti-corrosion strength.

If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought,

Me too. But I only added 3 quarts.

the pump would push any air locks
out. Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?

Yes, I've run it for a couple minutes with the cap off. Before, this
was always enough for the level to go down so I could add more, and
then more.

Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

There is an overflow hose and bottle, but I haven't run it with the
cap on and haven't run it long enough to get hot and overflow, so
whatever is there was there before.

It gave one bubble while I was watching, but the fluid level went down
little if anything. When the engine is cold the thermostat is shut,
so I figured the new fluid would enter through the bottom and the air
would escape...somehow. But if the air could escape, the air could
also enter when the engine was draining, and the engine would have
drained when the radiator did. And it would take 8 quarts to fill it.

There's a big chuckhole in the road near here. Maybe I should go
drive over that.

I found a lot of webpages about changing antifreeze, and all but one
said nothing about the thermostat, not even to consider changing the
thermostat when changing the antifreeze. Lots of webpages about
flushing the engine and not a one about removing the thermostat to
help this. Even though one page went into the fact that the
thermostat closes when it's cold. -- They all seemed to talk about
flushing the radiator and not about flushing the engine.


---And I couldn't have added more than 3 quarts. I only went outside
with 7 quarts of 50/50 and I haven't opened the bottle that I had
filled, so that leaves only 3 quarts or less that are in it now.

Someone gave me two part-filled bottles of 50/50, so I'm using them.
Usually when it is empty, I put in a whole gallon of 100% antifreeze,
then finish off with water, about a gallon.

Thanks.

MM

On 2/19/2011 1:26 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:


I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze& then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

It also raises the boiling point of the coolant not to mention the
lubrication properties for the water pump and anti-corrosion additives
to protect the different metals in the cooling system. :-)

TDD

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:18:24 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/19/2011 1:26 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:


I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze& then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

It also raises the boiling point of the coolant not to mention the
lubrication properties for the water pump and anti-corrosion additives
to protect the different metals in the cooling system. :-)

TDD

nods

Pure antifreeze has about half the heat transfer capability that H2O
does.





--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:43:43 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:18:24 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/19/2011 1:26 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:


I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze& then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

It also raises the boiling point of the coolant not to mention the
lubrication properties for the water pump and anti-corrosion additives
to protect the different metals in the cooling system. :-)

TDD

nods

Pure antifreeze has about half the heat transfer capability that H2O
does.

Plus it freezes at a higher temperature than a mixture of water and
antifreeze.

Although I think Harry only said he topped his off with pure
anti-freeze, so if it doesn't use much water, that is, much coolant,
it would still have plenty of water.

Unless the cooling system is empty, what I do with each new gallon of
antifreeze I get is, pour half of it into an empty antifreeze gallon,
and fill the rest of each with water, so I have two gallons of 50/50.
When I've had leaks, I carry one bottle with me. I thought about
alternating between water and antifreeze for topping off, but the math
was too complicated, and I coudln't predict what ratio I would get.

On 2/19/2011 3:35 PM, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:43:43 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:18:24 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/19/2011 1:26 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:


I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze& then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

It also raises the boiling point of the coolant not to mention the
lubrication properties for the water pump and anti-corrosion additives
to protect the different metals in the cooling system. :-)

TDD

nods

Pure antifreeze has about half the heat transfer capability that H2O
does.

Plus it freezes at a higher temperature than a mixture of water and
antifreeze.

Although I think Harry only said he topped his off with pure
anti-freeze, so if it doesn't use much water, that is, much coolant,
it would still have plenty of water.

Unless the cooling system is empty, what I do with each new gallon of
antifreeze I get is, pour half of it into an empty antifreeze gallon,
and fill the rest of each with water, so I have two gallons of 50/50.
When I've had leaks, I carry one bottle with me. I thought about
alternating between water and antifreeze for topping off, but the math
was too complicated, and I coudln't predict what ratio I would get.

I use a 50/50 mix in my vehicles.

TDD

On Feb 19, 12:02*pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. *This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. * *Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. * Let it
drain, put back the *petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. *Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? *How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. * *I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. *But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. *Which
does?

Antifreeze is bad when it goes acidic or is electricaly conductive, an
easy test is how it conducts electricity [Google for it I dont have it
written down] but I think .04v is bad, a lead in in the antifreeze
and one on ground, or a Ohm test is possible. Use a tester to test
percentage, dont go above 50% as you can overheat in summer and not
cool the motor. Antifreeze does not transfer heat nearly as well as
water. Redline, Water Wetter is a good booster. Your motor needs
corosion inhibitors due to dissimiliar metals. You motor may need
factory or spec stuf so be carefull. Antifreezes now last longer, but
different motors may have different specs from different metals used.
Google is the best help on this.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:43:30 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote:

Antifreeze is bad when it goes acidic or is electricaly conductive, an
easy test is how it conducts electricity [Google for it I dont have it
written down] but I think .04v is bad, a lead in in the antifreeze
and one on ground, or a Ohm test is possible. Use a tester to test
percentage, dont go above 50% as you can overheat in summer and not
cool the motor. Antifreeze does not transfer heat nearly as well as
water. Redline, Water Wetter is a good booster. Your motor needs
corosion inhibitors due to dissimiliar metals. You motor may need
factory or spec stuf so be carefull. Antifreezes now last longer, but
different motors may have different specs from different metals used.
Google is the best help on this.

This is all good to know. Thanks.

In this case I wanted to flush the system because it looked like
mud**.

So I want to flush the engine, not just the radiator. And especially
the heater because I don't seem to get enough heat anymore, even
though the thermometer says the engine is pretty hot.

I don't want the water to just ciculate. I want it do so quickly to
wash away the mud that clings a bit to the walls, at least it does on
the radiator cap and in the neck of the radiator. Any way short of
finding a hole in the engine block to flush the engine too.

Who flushes only the radiator anyhow?


**The radiator was leaking some, long story omitted, so I put in some
kind of stop leak. That didn't work so I put in another kind. The
second and probably the first were Barr's Leak, but they make 4 kinds
now iirc.

Well that stopped the leak, but a year later I notice it looks like
mud.

On Feb 19, 2:26*pm, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:55:29 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:





On Feb 19, 6:02 pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. Let it
drain, put back the petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. Which
does?

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore.

3 or 4 years ago, I was going to get the long-life antifreeze, 5 years
iirc, until I read the label and it said that there couldn't be any of
the regular kind in the system for it to be long-life, that if there
was some, the new stuff would only last 2 years.

AFAIK everyone diligent still changes their antifreeze every 2 or 5
years.

I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Old antifreeze is as good as new antifreeze about not freezing, but
there are anti-corrosion and lubricating additives, and maybe others
that they say deteriorate. I would think that the anti-corrosion
additives combine with whatever causes corrosion and thus gets used
up. * Just came across a web page that claimed the increased number of
aluminum parts required more continued anti-corrosion strength.

If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought,

Me too. * * * * * * * * * * But I only added 3 quarts..

the pump would push any air locks
out. *Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?

Yes, I've run it for a couple minutes with the cap off. *Before, this
was always enough for the level to go down so I could add more, and
then more.

Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

There is an overflow hose and bottle, but I haven't run it with the
cap on and haven't run it long enough to get hot and overflow, so
whatever is there was there before.

It gave one bubble while I was watching, but the fluid level went down
little if anything. * When the engine is cold the thermostat is shut,
so I figured the new fluid would enter through the bottom and the air
would escape...somehow. * But if the air could escape, the air could
also enter when the engine was draining, and the engine would have
drained when the radiator did. *And it would take 8 quarts to fill it.

There's a big chuckhole in the road near here. *Maybe I should go
drive over that.

I found a lot of webpages about changing antifreeze, and all but one
said nothing about the thermostat, not even to consider changing the
thermostat when changing the antifreeze. *Lots of webpages about
flushing the engine and not a one about removing the thermostat to
help this. * Even though one page went into the fact that the
thermostat closes when it's cold. -- They all seemed to talk about
flushing the radiator and not about flushing the engine.

---And I couldn't have added more than 3 quarts. *I only went outside
with 7 quarts of 50/50 and I haven't opened the bottle that I had
filled, so that leaves only 3 quarts or less that are in it now.

Someone gave me two part-filled bottles of 50/50, so I'm using them.
Usually when it is empty, I put in a whole gallon of 100% antifreeze,
then finish off with water, about a gallon.

Thanks.

MM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

a friend refused to fush his cooling system till one day his car
overheated he was on a trip and had to be towed in to a garage.

his coolant had turned to mush, it was 15 years old and congealed to
mush that wouldnt flow.

it clogged his radiator, he ended up with one day at the dealer.

new radiator, all new hoses, well they were 15 years old, new water
pump, basically a cooling system rebuild....

normally he does all his own repairs, so the cost over 1500 bucks had
him mad, but he was 90 miles from home and was too cheap to spend the
extra for AAA plus 100 mile towing...

he now admits coolant should be changed every couple years, theres a
flush and fill adapter that fits on the heater hose to make it
easy.....

On Feb 19, 12:02*pm, mm wrote:

snip

Considering all the risks and disposal problems, you can get the job
done better at a good auto service shop. They now use recycling rigs
with the right kind of additives and have some decent test methods as
well. Check around for prices and then decide if your really want to
fritter away your time on something that you can't do as well.

Joe

On Feb 19, 2:02*pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. *This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. * *Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. * Let it
drain, put back the *petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. *Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? *How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. * *I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. *But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. *Which
does?
Fill the radiator with the Tstat and housing removed until you see
anti-freeze in the block. Put the tstat and housing on and finish
filling the radiator. Take a drive and check again. Works for my
Nissan, Jeep and Chevy trucks

Jimmie

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 18:29:42 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Feb 19, 2:02*pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. *This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. * *Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. * Let it
drain, put back the *petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. *Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? *How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. * *I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. *But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. *Which
does?
Fill the radiator with the Tstat and housing removed until you see
anti-freeze in the block. Put the tstat and housing on and finish
filling the radiator. Take a drive and check again. Works for my
Nissan, Jeep and Chevy trucks

That sounds like a very good idea. And it's not too late to take off
the housing and see what the level is in the chamber below it. It
was empty of fluid when I put the housing back on**. And what the
level in the radiator is as best I can tell, before and after.

The worst can happen is that I lose what is in the hose, and the
radiator above the bottom of the hose. That's not much.

**Evidence that I had drained the engine, at least somewhat, and if
somewhat, why not all the way? So why did it only take 3 quarts.

It's supposed to be 47 tomorrow. Not my first choice, but warm
enough.

Jimmie

Which is fine for top offs. But, less fine when flushing out
the system, and refilling.

Ideally, the coolant mix is 50-50. Less than ideal is when
dealing with an ignorant mechanic or ignorant home owner who
doesn't understand the concept. I've had both.

The premix 50-50 is far more expensive than buying straight
antifreeze, and diluting it yourself.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...

Plus it freezes at a higher temperature than a mixture of
water and
antifreeze.

Although I think Harry only said he topped his off with
pure
anti-freeze, so if it doesn't use much water, that is,
much coolant,
it would still have plenty of water.

Unless the cooling system is empty, what I do with each
new gallon of
antifreeze I get is, pour half of it into an empty
antifreeze gallon,
and fill the rest of each with water, so I have two
gallons of 50/50.
When I've had leaks, I carry one bottle with me. I
thought about
alternating between water and antifreeze for topping off,
but the math
was too complicated, and I coudln't predict what ratio I
would get.

I use a 50/50 mix in my vehicles.

TDD

On 2/20/2011 12:04 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Which is fine for top offs. But, less fine when flushing out
the system, and refilling.

Ideally, the coolant mix is 50-50. Less than ideal is when
dealing with an ignorant mechanic or ignorant home owner who
doesn't understand the concept. I've had both.

The premix 50-50 is far more expensive than buying straight
antifreeze, and diluting it yourself.


Who said anything about BUYING 50/50 premix? Go back and read
my post or I will quote it he

"I use a 50/50 mix in my vehicles."

I keep empty gallon jugs, the ones with the little markings that
show the amount of liquid in the jug. Pour half the contents of
a new gallon jug of antifreeze into an empty gallon jug, dilute
with clean or distilled water and "Presto!"(no pun)you have two
gallons of 50/50 mix! ^_^

TDD

On Feb 19, 7:07*pm, cavedweller wrote:
On Feb 19, 1:55*pm, harry wrote:

On Feb 19, 6:02*pm, mm wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.
If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought, the pump would push any air locks
out. *Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?
Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

You really know your Mitsubishi engines, don't you?

Explain how flushing out a Mitsubishi engine helps it?

On Feb 19, 7:26*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

Some aircraft run on neat antifreeze. In very cold climates neat
antifreeze is recommended. The reason I top it up is that the
antifreeze evaporates leaving water behind if there's a leak or the
sytem overpressures.

On Feb 19, 7:26*pm, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:55:29 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:





On Feb 19, 6:02 pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. Let it
drain, put back the petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. Which
does?

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore.

3 or 4 years ago, I was going to get the long-life antifreeze, 5 years
iirc, until I read the label and it said that there couldn't be any of
the regular kind in the system for it to be long-life, that if there
was some, the new stuff would only last 2 years.

AFAIK everyone diligent still changes their antifreeze every 2 or 5
years.

I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Old antifreeze is as good as new antifreeze about not freezing, but
there are anti-corrosion and lubricating additives, and maybe others
that they say deteriorate. I would think that the anti-corrosion
additives combine with whatever causes corrosion and thus gets used
up. * Just came across a web page that claimed the increased number of
aluminum parts required more continued anti-corrosion strength.

If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought,

Me too. * * * * * * * * * * But I only added 3 quarts..

the pump would push any air locks
out. *Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?

Yes, I've run it for a couple minutes with the cap off. *Before, this
was always enough for the level to go down so I could add more, and
then more.

Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

There is an overflow hose and bottle, but I haven't run it with the
cap on and haven't run it long enough to get hot and overflow, so
whatever is there was there before.

It gave one bubble while I was watching, but the fluid level went down
little if anything. * When the engine is cold the thermostat is shut,
so I figured the new fluid would enter through the bottom and the air
would escape...somehow. * But if the air could escape, the air could
also enter when the engine was draining, and the engine would have
drained when the radiator did. *And it would take 8 quarts to fill it.

There's a big chuckhole in the road near here. *Maybe I should go
drive over that.

I found a lot of webpages about changing antifreeze, and all but one
said nothing about the thermostat, not even to consider changing the
thermostat when changing the antifreeze. *Lots of webpages about
flushing the engine and not a one about removing the thermostat to
help this. * Even though one page went into the fact that the
thermostat closes when it's cold. -- They all seemed to talk about
flushing the radiator and not about flushing the engine.

---And I couldn't have added more than 3 quarts. *I only went outside
with 7 quarts of 50/50 and I haven't opened the bottle that I had
filled, so that leaves only 3 quarts or less that are in it now.

Someone gave me two part-filled bottles of 50/50, so I'm using them.
Usually when it is empty, I put in a whole gallon of 100% antifreeze,
then finish off with water, about a gallon.

Thanks.

MM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I belive this whole changing antifreeze business is a con.
Sure it can evaporate, which is why I top it up with neat antifreeze.
It only needs a very small amount annually.
No-one has been able to explain how antifreeze suddenly ceases to be
antifreeze. And no, I have never had problems with the engine
corroding.
i would have thought introducing air by washing out would do more
damage on the corrosion front.

On Feb 19, 8:18*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 2/19/2011 1:26 PM, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,
* *wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze& *then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

It also raises the boiling point of the coolant not to mention the
lubrication properties for the water pump and anti-corrosion additives
to protect the different metals in the cooling system. :-)

TDD

Er, I have dismantled water pumps. They have ball bearings with grease
to lubricate them. There used to be a grease nipple too on European
cars at least. There is a carbon water seal.
In the past water pumps used to fail regularly but it hasn't happened
to me for years now. Just **** design years ago.
The system is under pressure anyway which increases the boiling point.

But you're wrong anyway, it increases the boiling point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

So, if it prevents electrolytic action in the engine then nothings
happening in there, the antifreeze is unchanged and therefor needs no
changing.

I just looked at a few manufacturers reccomendations. Life of car. ie
no deterioration no changed neccessary as I thought.

ie it's just a car freak thing, totally unneccesary. The only problem
arises when you buy second hand and you don't know who's been messing
about.

On 2/20/2011 5:37 AM, harry wrote:
On Feb 19, 8:18 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 2/19/2011 1:26 PM, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,
wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze& then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

It also raises the boiling point of the coolant not to mention the
lubrication properties for the water pump and anti-corrosion additives
to protect the different metals in the cooling system. :-)

TDD

Er, I have dismantled water pumps. They have ball bearings with grease
to lubricate them. There used to be a grease nipple too on European
cars at least. There is a carbon water seal.
In the past water pumps used to fail regularly but it hasn't happened
to me for years now. Just **** design years ago.
The system is under pressure anyway which increases the boiling point.

But you're wrong anyway, it increases the boiling point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

So, if it prevents electrolytic action in the engine then nothings
happening in there, the antifreeze is unchanged and therefor needs no
changing.

I just looked at a few manufacturers reccomendations. Life of car. ie
no deterioration no changed neccessary as I thought.

ie it's just a car freak thing, totally unneccesary. The only problem
arises when you buy second hand and you don't know who's been messing
about.

I suppose I should have written "lubricates the water pump seal" and
of course "raises" and "increases" means the same thing to me when I
discuss temperature. You should know what gits we bloody Yanks are by
now. ^_^

TDD

On Feb 20, 6:05*am, harry wrote:
On Feb 19, 7:07*pm, cavedweller wrote:

On Feb 19, 1:55*pm, harry wrote:

On Feb 19, 6:02*pm, mm wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.
If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought, the pump would push any air locks
out. *Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?
Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

You really know your Mitsubishi engines, don't you?

Explain how flushing out a Mitsubishi engine helps it?

Explain how not even coming close to an answer to the OP's question
helps him. You might, for instance, be at least aware that a 95
LeBaron has a coolant recovery system before offering an update on
what YOU normally do, to say nothing of the techniques for draining
and then "burping" a 3.0L.

Twit

On Feb 19, 3:43*pm, ransley wrote:
On Feb 19, 12:02*pm, mm wrote:



This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. *This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. * *Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. * Let it
drain, put back the *petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. *Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? *How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. * *I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. *But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. *Which
does?

Antifreeze is bad when it goes acidic or is electricaly conductive, an
easy test is how it conducts electricity [Google for it I dont have it
written down] *but I think .04v is bad, a lead in in the antifreeze
and one on ground, or a Ohm test is possible. Use a tester to test
percentage, dont go above 50% as you can overheat in summer and not
cool the motor. Antifreeze does not transfer heat nearly as well as
water. Redline, Water Wetter is a good booster. Your motor needs
corosion inhibitors due to dissimiliar metals. You motor may need
factory or spec stuf so be carefull. Antifreezes now last longer, but
different motors may have different specs from different metals used.
Google is the best help on this.

Your reading of .04V...wouldn't that be "producing" rather than
"conducting". It's not leaking the voltage. A conductor allows the
current to flow in the circuit...it doesn't generate it.

On Feb 20, 6:08*am, harry wrote:
On Feb 19, 7:26*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,

*harry wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

Some aircraft run on neat antifreeze. In very cold climates neat
antifreeze is recommended. * The reason I top it up is that the
antifreeze evaporates leaving water behind if there's a leak or the
sytem overpressures.

Show us a single auto manufacturer that says that when coolant is
needed you should top it off with pure antifreeze. I'd also like to
see
a credible reference to any auto manufacturer that says in very cold
climates straight antifreeze is recommended. Somehow I doubt
that because as someone else already pointed out to you,
the charts for mixing all show that straight antifreeze has a
higher freezing point than the correct mix with water.

On Feb 20, 6:13*am, harry wrote:
On Feb 19, 7:26*pm, mm wrote:





On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:55:29 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 19, 6:02 pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. Let it
drain, put back the petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. Which
does?

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore.

3 or 4 years ago, I was going to get the long-life antifreeze, 5 years
iirc, until I read the label and it said that there couldn't be any of
the regular kind in the system for it to be long-life, that if there
was some, the new stuff would only last 2 years.

AFAIK everyone diligent still changes their antifreeze every 2 or 5
years.

I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Old antifreeze is as good as new antifreeze about not freezing, but
there are anti-corrosion and lubricating additives, and maybe others
that they say deteriorate. I would think that the anti-corrosion
additives combine with whatever causes corrosion and thus gets used
up. * Just came across a web page that claimed the increased number of
aluminum parts required more continued anti-corrosion strength.

If you have poured ant-freeze in to capacity and run the engine, it
must be full I would have thought,

Me too. * * * * * * * * * * But I only added 3 quarts.

the pump would push any air locks
out. *Have you run the engine with the radiator fill cap off, this
usually lets any air out?

Yes, I've run it for a couple minutes with the cap off. *Before, this
was always enough for the level to go down so I could add more, and
then more.

Is there an "overflow" and does it go to an expansion bottle?

There is an overflow hose and bottle, but I haven't run it with the
cap on and haven't run it long enough to get hot and overflow, so
whatever is there was there before.

It gave one bubble while I was watching, but the fluid level went down
little if anything. * When the engine is cold the thermostat is shut,
so I figured the new fluid would enter through the bottom and the air
would escape...somehow. * But if the air could escape, the air could
also enter when the engine was draining, and the engine would have
drained when the radiator did. *And it would take 8 quarts to fill it..

There's a big chuckhole in the road near here. *Maybe I should go
drive over that.

I found a lot of webpages about changing antifreeze, and all but one
said nothing about the thermostat, not even to consider changing the
thermostat when changing the antifreeze. *Lots of webpages about
flushing the engine and not a one about removing the thermostat to
help this. * Even though one page went into the fact that the
thermostat closes when it's cold. -- They all seemed to talk about
flushing the radiator and not about flushing the engine.

---And I couldn't have added more than 3 quarts. *I only went outside
with 7 quarts of 50/50 and I haven't opened the bottle that I had
filled, so that leaves only 3 quarts or less that are in it now.

Someone gave me two part-filled bottles of 50/50, so I'm using them.
Usually when it is empty, I put in a whole gallon of 100% antifreeze,
then finish off with water, about a gallon.

Thanks.

MM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I belive this whole changing antifreeze business is a con.
Sure it can evaporate, which is why I top it up with neat antifreeze.
It only needs a very small amount annually.
No-one has been able to explain how antifreeze suddenly ceases to be
antifreeze. And no, I have never had problems with the engine
corroding.
i would have thought introducing air by washing out would do more
damage on the corrosion front.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You really are the village idiot. No one said antifreeze ceases to be
antifreeze anymore than they said than engine oil ceases to be oil.
Or tranny fluid ceases to be tranny fluid. Following
your logic, you don't need to ever change your engine oil either.

It's a 15 year old car. IF it were mine and the antifreeze hadn't
been changed in many years, I'd change it too. Why? Because,
as others have pointed out to you, antifreeze has additives that
help prevent corrosion and lubrication. Those additives interact
with the metals and contaminants and don't last forever any more
than additives in engine oil do.

I'd also like to see any basis for your claim that only antifreeze
evaporates, and not water. It's a blend and the ratio of what
evaporates will depend on the partial pressures of the liquids.
You're always going to get a mix in vapor leaving the liquid.
Even hillbilly's that run a still understand that concept. And I'd
suspect that in the case of engine coolant, plenty of water
would evaporate with the antifreeze component.

On Feb 19, 10:50*pm, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 18:29:42 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE





wrote:
On Feb 19, 2:02 pm, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.

Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. Let it
drain, put back the petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?

P.S. I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. Which
does?
Fill the radiator with the Tstat and housing removed until you see
anti-freeze in the block. Put the tstat and housing on and finish
filling the radiator. Take a drive and check again. Works for my
Nissan, Jeep and Chevy trucks *

That sounds like a very good idea. * And it's not too late to take off
the housing and see what the level is in the chamber below it. * It
was empty of fluid when I put the housing back on**. * *And what the
level in the radiator is as best I can tell, before and after.

The worst can happen is that I lose what is in the hose, and the
radiator above the bottom of the hose. * That's not much.

**Evidence that I had drained the engine, at least somewhat, and if
somewhat, why not all the way? *So why did it only take 3 quarts. *

It's supposed to be 47 tomorrow. *Not my first choice, but warm
enough.



Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want to flush it, Prestone sells a flush kit that you can get
at any
auto parts store, probably Walmart, etc. It's a connector that you
insert in a heater hose after you cut it. You can then connect a
garden hose to it and power flush it. The kit has the complete
directions.

Following the last flush and drain, I would start filling it with PURE
antifreeze until you have the correct amount of antifreeze for a
50-50 mix. Then top it off with water.

But it also depends on what you have to do to properly dispose
of the antifreeze. If there is a municipal facility that takes it,
that
could be easy. IF not, then taking it to a shop and just paying to
have it done might be a better choice.

On 2/19/2011 12:02 PM, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.


Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.


I just wanted to say as a ASE certified mechanic for over 30 years, this
has been one of the most entertaining threads i've read in a long time.
Thanks everyone for the laughs.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:37:44 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 2/19/2011 3:35 PM, mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:43:43 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:18:24 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 2/19/2011 1:26 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:


I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze& then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

It also raises the boiling point of the coolant not to mention the
lubrication properties for the water pump and anti-corrosion additives
to protect the different metals in the cooling system. :-)

TDD

nods

Pure antifreeze has about half the heat transfer capability that H2O
does.

Plus it freezes at a higher temperature than a mixture of water and
antifreeze.

Although I think Harry only said he topped his off with pure
anti-freeze, so if it doesn't use much water, that is, much coolant,
it would still have plenty of water.

Unless the cooling system is empty, what I do with each new gallon of
antifreeze I get is, pour half of it into an empty antifreeze gallon,
and fill the rest of each with water, so I have two gallons of 50/50.
When I've had leaks, I carry one bottle with me. I thought about
alternating between water and antifreeze for topping off, but the math
was too complicated, and I coudln't predict what ratio I would get.

I use a 50/50 mix in my vehicles.

TDD

I read this as just agreeing with me, not about buying it pre-mixed.
Not every post disagrees with the previous one.

On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 06:44:51 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 20, 6:13*am, harry wrote:
......

I belive this whole changing antifreeze business is a con.
Sure it can evaporate, which is why I top it up with neat antifreeze.

It's alcohol-based antifreeze which evaporates (more?), but they
haven't used that for about 50 or 60 years. This stuff is called
"permanent" because it evaporates little or not at all in a system
with a pressure cap.

It only needs a very small amount annually.
No-one has been able to explain how antifreeze suddenly ceases to be
antifreeze. And no, I have never had problems with the engine
corroding.
i would have thought introducing air by washing out would do more
damage on the corrosion front.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You really are the village idiot. No one said antifreeze ceases to be
antifreeze anymore than they said than engine oil ceases to be oil.
Or tranny fluid ceases to be tranny fluid. Following
your logic, you don't need to ever change your engine oil either.

It's a 15 year old car. IF it were mine and the antifreeze hadn't
been changed in many years, I'd change it too. Why? Because,

Just for the record, I usually change it every two years. But it's
been a bad few years for me and this might be the third year, or even
maybe the fourth, I can't remember. This is also the first car I've
ever been able to keep past 14 years old, so that's another reason I
got lax. It's the stop-leak that made it look like mud.

as others have pointed out to you, antifreeze has additives that
help prevent corrosion and lubrication. Those additives interact
with the metals and contaminants and don't last forever any more
than additives in engine oil do.

I'd also like to see any basis for your claim that only antifreeze
evaporates, and not water. It's a blend and the ratio of what
evaporates will depend on the partial pressures of the liquids.
You're always going to get a mix in vapor leaving the liquid.
Even hillbilly's that run a still understand that concept. And I'd
suspect that in the case of engine coolant, plenty of water
would evaporate with the antifreeze component.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:58:57 -0800 (PST), Joe wrote:

On Feb 19, 12:02*pm, mm wrote:

snip

Considering all the risks and disposal problems, you can get the job

Thanks for replying. I know about disposal problems, but what risks?

done better at a good auto service shop.

I wish I knew a good one near here.

They now use recycling rigs
with the right kind of additives

What additives do they have that they don't sell at the autoparts
store?

and have some decent test methods as
well.

What can they test better than I?

Check around for prices and then decide if your really want to
fritter away your time on something that you can't do as well.

It's not frittering. It's repair, and that's what I like to do, home
repair, car repair, appliance repair, piano repair, radio and tv
repair, etc. I like all of it. If things didn't break I'd have
nothing to repair.

Plus I know what's been done. The trouble is I'll have to wait until
they get to my car and hope they'll let me watch, because I have no
idea if they'll do all the things you say if I'm not watching. I've
had too many bad experiences at places, including auto shops.

My main goal was to flush the heater core of the mud. We'll see what
it's like next time I need the heater.


But not to use chemicals, which I'm afraid will dissolve the Bars Leak
and cause the radiator to start leaking again.


Now my second goal is to understand how everything works, whether I
drained the block or not, and if not, why not?

Thanks.
Joe

In article
,
harry wrote:

Some aircraft run on neat antifreeze. In very cold climates neat
antifreeze is recommended.

Neither applies to you.

"mm" wrote in message
...
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.


Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. Let it
drain, put back the petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?


P.S. I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. Which
does?

The brown plastic ring will fit into a groove.

On 2/19/2011 1:02 PM, mm wrote:
This is OT, but I asked in my Chrysler mailing list and no one in the
usually busy list has answered in 18 hours, except one who tried, only
wrt the last, unrelated line.


Well, I can't believe it but I've forgotten how to change the
anti-freeze. This must be the start of Oldtimers Disease.

It was 70 degrees in Baltimore yesterday, and a good day to flush the
cooling system. Lebaron, ''95, 3.0L V6.

I ran the engine until it was hot or at least warm.

The petcock opens with no tools -- that's nice.

I drained the coolant into one of those rectangular bottles that lie
in their side; I removed the thermostat and flushed for 5 minutes with
a garden hose in the radiator neck until the water ran clear. Let it
drain, put back the petcock, put back the thermostat, filled the
radiator with 50/50, but it took less than a gallon.

Ran the engine a minute or two until I realized that maybe I had only
filled the radiator.

Went to see if I could add more coolant, but I couldn't. Usually I
can keep adding and adding, even when it starts way above empty.

I added about 3 quarts, when the capacity is 8.

After sitting all night, today I could add a 3 or 4 ounces more.

Could it be I never drained the engine after all? How could that be
when I removed the thermostat and the petcock and after flushing let
it sit until nothing was coming out of the petcock hole.?


P.S. I also got a Felpro gasket for the thermostat and it has a
brown plastic ring on the inside circumference on one side. But
nothing on the card to say which side of the gasket goes up. Which
does?



The engine block holds a lot of liquid, in your case water from the
flush. Remove a lower radiator hose to let more water out. Fill only
with 100% anti freeze, the rest of the water in the engine will dilute
it enough. Run the engine with the heater on hot to purge those hoses
also. Test the anti freeze mix to see if it's safe for your part of the
woods.

Maybe I should do mine in the 2000 chevy van. It's over it's 10 year
lifespan (didn't hit 100,000 miles yet.

We aim to please. I've got a similar thing, my mechanic
replaced my heater core on the 1998 Cheverolet Blazer. I
bought him full strength anti freeze. The guy's in his
fifties, and ought to know what he's doing. So he drains,
flushes, blows the water out of the engine. And then he
pours 100% antifreeze until it's all full. I checked, it's
about 70%. I've got to figure out how to drain some of that
and replace with water, some day.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

I just wanted to say as a ASE certified mechanic for over 30
years, this
has been one of the most entertaining threads i've read in a
long time.
Thanks everyone for the laughs.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

You'd be amazed how many people do buy the premix, and pay
the premium price of $8 per galon to get that half gallon of
water.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
On 2/20/2011 12:04 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Which is fine for top offs. But, less fine when flushing
out
the system, and refilling.

Ideally, the coolant mix is 50-50. Less than ideal is when
dealing with an ignorant mechanic or ignorant home owner
who
doesn't understand the concept. I've had both.

The premix 50-50 is far more expensive than buying
straight
antifreeze, and diluting it yourself.


Who said anything about BUYING 50/50 premix? Go back and
read
my post or I will quote it he

"I use a 50/50 mix in my vehicles."

I keep empty gallon jugs, the ones with the little markings
that
show the amount of liquid in the jug. Pour half the contents
of
a new gallon jug of antifreeze into an empty gallon jug,
dilute
with clean or distilled water and "Presto!"(no pun)you have
two
gallons of 50/50 mix! ^_^

TDD

On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 03:08:26 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 19, 7:26*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

Some aircraft run on neat antifreeze. In very cold climates neat
antifreeze is recommended.

Wikip:
"Pure ethylene glycol freezes at about -12°C (10.4°F), but when mixed
with water molecules, neither can readily form a solid crystal
structure, and therefore the freezing point of the mixture is
depressed significantly. The minimum freezing point is observed when
the ethylene glycol percent in water is about 70%, as shown below.
This is the reason pure ethylene glycol is not used as an
antifreeze—water is a necessary component as well."

The reason I top it up is that the
antifreeze evaporates leaving water behind if there's a leak or the
sytem overpressures.

"the increase in boiling temperature is due to pure ethylene glycol
having a much higher boiling point and lower vapor pressure than pure
water; " This is one reason ethylene glycol evaporates
less than water. The antifreeze that evaporates more is alcohol.
Does anyone still use that?

On Feb 20, 2:36*pm, "
wrote:
On Feb 20, 6:08*am, harry wrote:





On Feb 19, 7:26*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,

*harry wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

Some aircraft run on neat antifreeze. In very cold climates neat
antifreeze is recommended. * The reason I top it up is that the
antifreeze evaporates leaving water behind if there's a leak or the
sytem overpressures.

Show us a single auto manufacturer that says that when coolant is
needed you should top it off with pure antifreeze. *I'd also like to
see
a credible reference to any auto manufacturer that says in very cold
climates straight antifreeze is recommended. * Somehow I doubt
that because as someone else already pointed out to you,
*the charts for mixing all show that straight antifreeze has a
higher freezing point than the correct mix with water.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A friend of mine had a Muskovitch (Russian) car years ago They
recommended straight anti-freeze. In temperature below minus 30dC they
recommended draining the coolant & running without. Special quick
drains were provided you operated levers under the bonnet.
The battery had a quick release so you could take it in the house.
The fan belt could be removed to take in the house too. Specail
Winter oil was recommended. None of this applied in the UK of course
but it was interesting to read.

On Feb 21, 2:46*am, harry wrote:
On Feb 20, 2:36*pm, "
wrote:







On Feb 20, 6:08*am, harry wrote:

On Feb 19, 7:26*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,

*harry wrote:

I didn't know anyone changed anti-freeze anymore. I just top mine up
with neat anti-freeze & then I'm sure it's not too weak.

Well, that's a spectacularly bad idea. Anti-freeze makes a ****ty
coolant. It's there to keep the real coolant - water - from freezing.

Some aircraft run on neat antifreeze. In very cold climates neat
antifreeze is recommended. * The reason I top it up is that the
antifreeze evaporates leaving water behind if there's a leak or the
sytem overpressures.

Show us a single auto manufacturer that says that when coolant is
needed you should top it off with pure antifreeze. *I'd also like to
see
a credible reference to any auto manufacturer that says in very cold
climates straight antifreeze is recommended. * Somehow I doubt
that because as someone else already pointed out to you,
*the charts for mixing all show that straight antifreeze has a
higher freezing point than the correct mix with water.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A friend of mine had a Muskovitch (Russian) car years ago *They
recommended straight anti-freeze. In temperature below minus 30dC they
recommended draining the coolant & running without. Special quick
drains were provided you operated levers under the bonnet.
The battery had a quick release so you could take it in the house.
The fan belt could be removed to take in the house too. *Specail
Winter oil was recommended. None of this applied in the UK of course
but it was interesting to read.

The fan belt (fan/alt./waterpump) belt!!! WFT At that point all you
would need is the alternator...I guess!