I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

On Jan 5, 5:56*pm, Edge wrote:
I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On Jan 5, 11:56*am, Edge wrote:
I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

My first thought was "damned good idea" because we, too plan save rain
water for watering starting this spring.

My second thought was about the amount of insecticide we had sprayed
under and around the basement foundation before the poured the floors
and back-filled (termite treatment) a couple of years ago. Not sure I
would want to touch that water until it has had a few more years to
dilute the chemicals.

Ronb

On 1/5/2011 11:56 AM, Edge wrote:
I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

Where I live it is illegal to drain a sump pump into the sewer system;
it *must* be discharged somewhere on the property. So yes, people do
pump it out onto their lawns or gardens. For that matter, people with
lakeshore property frequently water with water pumped from the lake,
and that's for sure going to have more collected runoff in it than
whatever you collect just from your property.

On Jan 5, 2:09*pm, Hell Toupee wrote:
On 1/5/2011 11:56 AM, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

Where I live it is illegal to drain a sump pump into the sewer system;
it *must* be discharged somewhere on the property. So yes, people do
pump it out onto their lawns or gardens. For that matter, people with
lakeshore property frequently water with water pumped from the lake,
and that's for sure going to have more collected runoff in it than
whatever you collect just from your property.

As long as you have regular sewers for your house, and not a septic
tank, that water should be ok. Where we have septic tanks and wells
in the rural areas around here, the well is usually in the front yard
and the septic system is in the back yard. I guess the assumption is
that the septic system water goes straight down from the drain field
and does not migrate sideways under the house foundation and get into
the well.

Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

On Jan 5, 5:02*pm, Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

well theres natural bacteria that eats motor oil, and worn tires too.

which is why the road berms dont have piles of tire dust along them.

so a litte oil or transmission fluid might not really matter, although
probably not a good idea to water vegies with contaminated water

Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er, comes off.
After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or chemical preservative
that washes off will be so small as to be undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of airborne
junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust (and a few bird
droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of the next rain, subsequent
water should be almost as pure as if it had been distilled.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 11:44:57 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.
Well it won't have more e-coli or other crap in it than you get off a
roof where the birds crap on it all day for weeks between rains. And
if you are worried, throw a bit of bleach in the barrel every once in
a while.

On Jan 5, 7:44*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

There is no oil on my driveway. It's concrete blocks, it would be
visible. Cars here don't leak oil any more in any case.
What stuff might there be in the soil?

On Jan 5, 9:04*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 5, 2:09*pm, Hell Toupee wrote:





On 1/5/2011 11:56 AM, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

Where I live it is illegal to drain a sump pump into the sewer system;
it *must* be discharged somewhere on the property. So yes, people do
pump it out onto their lawns or gardens. For that matter, people with
lakeshore property frequently water with water pumped from the lake,
and that's for sure going to have more collected runoff in it than
whatever you collect just from your property.

As long as you have regular sewers for your house, and not a septic
tank, that water should be ok. *Where we have septic tanks and wells
in the rural areas around here, the well is usually in the front yard
and the septic system is in the back yard. *I guess the assumption is
that the septic system water goes straight down from the drain field
and does not migrate sideways under the house foundation and get into
the well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So what if it did? Soil is usually around 10% by wieght bacteria &
fungi any way.

That's one source of water. Also, the condensate from any AC
system that might be running. Others have mentioned
chemicals. Who can tell, about that? Those are the
pesticides and such which are already in the ground water. I
vote yes, it's a good idea.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Edge" wrote in message
...
I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts
I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in
the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water
to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that
water into
the storm sewers.

On Jan 6, 3:32*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 5, 7:44*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:





On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

There is no oil on my driveway. It's concrete blocks, it would be
visible. Cars here don't leak oil any more in any case.
What stuff might there be in the soil?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Used to you could always spot a brit car because of the oil patch it
left behind. Don't even get started on their automotive elecrical
systems.

Edge wrote the following:
I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.


Where are you?
If you are in the northeast US, you better find a very sturdy barrel. Up
here the temp has been in the single digits, teens, and 20s for most of
the last few weeks and everything outside that had water in it (ponds,
pools, birdbaths, etc.) is now solid ice.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Jan 5, 11:44*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

That is a bit overly paranoid.

Harry K

On Jan 6, 5:06*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 6, 3:32*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 5, 7:44*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

There is no oil on my driveway. It's concrete blocks, it would be
visible. Cars here don't leak oil any more in any case.
What stuff might there be in the soil?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Used to you could always spot a brit car because of the oil patch it
left behind. Don't even get started on their automotive elecrical
systems.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or HD motorcycles?

Harry K

On Jan 5, 1:04*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 5, 2:09*pm, Hell Toupee wrote:





On 1/5/2011 11:56 AM, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

Where I live it is illegal to drain a sump pump into the sewer system;
it *must* be discharged somewhere on the property. So yes, people do
pump it out onto their lawns or gardens. For that matter, people with
lakeshore property frequently water with water pumped from the lake,
and that's for sure going to have more collected runoff in it than
whatever you collect just from your property.

As long as you have regular sewers for your house, and not a septic
tank, that water should be ok. *Where we have septic tanks and wells
in the rural areas around here, the well is usually in the front yard
and the septic system is in the back yard. *I guess the assumption is
that the septic system water goes straight down from the drain field
and does not migrate sideways under the house foundation and get into
the well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, the reasoning is that by the time any thing has seeped through the
ground for 100 ft (that used to be the minimum separation) it has been
"purified".

Harry K

On Jan 5, 2:38*pm, " wrote:
On Jan 5, 5:02*pm, Edge wrote:

Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

well theres natural bacteria that eats motor oil, and worn tires too.

which is why the road berms dont have piles of tire dust along them.

so a litte oil or transmission fluid might not really matter, although
probably not a good idea to water vegies with contaminated water

And why not? You _do_ wash them off before use?

Harry K

On Jan 5, 6:59*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er, comes off.
After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or chemical preservative
that washes off will be so small as to be undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of airborne
junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust (and a few bird
droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of the next rain, subsequent
water should be almost as pure as if it had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. That all
comes out of the sky. In the olden times there was a diverter that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm to
get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K

On Jan 6, 4:26*pm, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 6, 5:06*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jan 6, 3:32*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 5, 7:44*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

There is no oil on my driveway. It's concrete blocks, it would be
visible. Cars here don't leak oil any more in any case.
What stuff might there be in the soil?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Used to you could always spot a brit car because of the oil patch it
left behind. Don't even get started on their automotive elecrical
systems.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or HD motorcycles?

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now funny you should mention that. I have my nieghbour's Harley in my
garage. It's leaking oil from both the engine and one of the front
forks.
But they're not American any more are they? All the spare parts he
has had are made in Taiwan.
There are not many Harleys here they are expensive.

On Jan 6, 4:35*pm, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 5, 6:59*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er, comes off.
After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or chemical preservative
that washes off will be so small as to be undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of airborne
junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust (and a few bird
droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of the next rain, subsequent
water should be almost as pure as if it had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. *There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. *That all
comes out of the sky. *In the olden times there was a diverter *that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm to
get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. I notice it notice even more as we now live by a highway. I
believe it's the dust kicked up by passing traffic. Rubber dust?

harry wrote:
On Jan 6, 4:35 pm, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 5, 6:59 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils
or fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be
washed away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most
of the water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the
lawn, seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin
water and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er,
comes off. After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or
chemical preservative that washes off will be so small as to be
undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of
airborne junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust
(and a few bird droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of
the next rain, subsequent water should be almost as pure as if it
had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. That all
comes out of the sky. In the olden times there was a diverter that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm
to get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. I notice it notice even more as we now live by a highway. I
believe it's the dust kicked up by passing traffic. Rubber dust?

Yep. You don't see a ribbon of rubber dust alongside the road.

Applying the theory that "everything has to be somewhere," if the rubber
dust is not on the side of the road, it's got to be somewhere else.

On Jan 6, 11:35*am, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 5, 6:59*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:



Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er, comes off.
After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or chemical preservative
that washes off will be so small as to be undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of airborne
junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust (and a few bird
droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of the next rain, subsequent
water should be almost as pure as if it had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. *There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. *That all
comes out of the sky. *In the olden times there was a diverter *that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm to
get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K

Have you considered the possibility that the "mud" that you say comes
out of the sky is actually rotten leaves and other types of vegetation
that has composted in the gutter?

On Jan 5, 11:56*am, Edge wrote:
I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

I side with the folks who say yes go ahead that water should be fine,
at least for lawn and flowers. One thing I have noticed with my sump,
though, is that the water in the sump well is not always completely
clear; sometimes it has a little suspended dirt (i.e. it's a little
murky). Nothing wrong with that either but it might tend to settle
out and form a layer of sludge in the bottom of your barrel. Just
something to check for - if that happens you might need to stir it up
or flush the barrel out once in a while. -- H

On Jan 6, 11:32*am, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 5, 2:38*pm, " wrote:



On Jan 5, 5:02*pm, Edge wrote:

Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

well theres natural bacteria that eats motor oil, and worn tires too.

which is why the road berms dont have piles of tire dust along them.

so a litte oil or transmission fluid might not really matter, although
probably not a good idea to water vegies with contaminated water

And why not? You _do_ wash them off before use?

Harry K

I wash the outsides but I tend to have trouble getting the water out
of the *inside* of the vegetables.

There are interweb references that state the plants can absorb up to
7% of the lead in contaminated soil.

While the following site is speaking specifically about E .coli, I can
see reasons to follow the same precautions for any type of
contaminated water.

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09369.html

"It is important to prevent direct contact of potentially contaminated
water with the fruits or vegetables you plan to harvest. The type of
plant affects how you water. If the edible portion of the crop is
located above the soil, it is better to water with a drip system or a
furrow or flood system than with sprinklers. This will limit direct
contact between the water and the crop. If you have a limited drinking
water supply, save the best water for the period just prior to
harvest. Avoid using potentially contaminated water within 30 days of
harvest."

On 1/5/2011 4:04 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Jan 5, 2:09 pm, Hell wrote:
On 1/5/2011 11:56 AM, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

Where I live it is illegal to drain a sump pump into the sewer system;
it *must* be discharged somewhere on the property. So yes, people do
pump it out onto their lawns or gardens. For that matter, people with
lakeshore property frequently water with water pumped from the lake,
and that's for sure going to have more collected runoff in it than
whatever you collect just from your property.

As long as you have regular sewers for your house, and not a septic
tank, that water should be ok. Where we have septic tanks and wells
in the rural areas around here, the well is usually in the front yard
and the septic system is in the back yard. I guess the assumption is
that the septic system water goes straight down from the drain field
and does not migrate sideways under the house foundation and get into
the well.

There are often, if not mostly, 2 very different types of sewers to
consider. Most any city, town,... prohibits groundwater from a sump
pump to be discharged into a sanitary sewer (that's the one that is
anything BUT sanitary). All the extra water stresses the septic plants
that treat the water and in heavy rains can cause it to release
untreated septic (toilet) water straight into creeks, lakes, rivers...

Then there are the "storm sewers". They just take rainwater downhill to
get it out of the way. Quite often they drain into creeks and lakes, no
problem. Many areas allow sump discharge in the storm sewer.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:07:13 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

harry wrote:
On Jan 6, 4:35 pm, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 5, 6:59 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils
or fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be
washed away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most
of the water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the
lawn, seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin
water and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er,
comes off. After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or
chemical preservative that washes off will be so small as to be
undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of
airborne junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust
(and a few bird droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of
the next rain, subsequent water should be almost as pure as if it
had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. That all
comes out of the sky. In the olden times there was a diverter that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm
to get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. I notice it notice even more as we now live by a highway. I
believe it's the dust kicked up by passing traffic. Rubber dust?

Yep. You don't see a ribbon of rubber dust alongside the road.

Applying the theory that "everything has to be somewhere," if the rubber
dust is not on the side of the road, it's got to be somewhere else.

Don't know about where you are, but MOST of the black crap in my eaves
troughs is composted vegetation - leaves and such that come off the
nearby trees. The rest of what is in the trough is the loose grit from
the shingles - but that's not black.

On 1/6/2011 8:06 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 6, 3:32 am, wrote:
On Jan 5, 7:44 pm, David wrote:





On 1/5/2011 10:19 AM harry spake thus:

On Jan 5, 5:56 pm, wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer
collects rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses
in the development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump
goes off more regularly than it rains around here in the summer.
Since the sump collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert
that water to a rain barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and
wasting that water into the storm sewers.

No reason why not. The water from my driveway runs into an underground
tank I use to water the garden.

So you don't mind a little oil in your garden soil, mixed in with just a
dollop, say, of transmission fluid, brake fluid or whatever?

To answer the OP's question, it would be a matter of what's in that sump
water. Easy to speculate that it's OK, but just as easy to guess that
there might be stuff in the soil, and therefore the water, that you
might not want in the soil you're watering. (Like E. coli?)

You might think about capturing some sump water and having it tested.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

There is no oil on my driveway. It's concrete blocks, it would be
visible. Cars here don't leak oil any more in any case.
What stuff might there be in the soil?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Used to you could always spot a brit car because of the oil patch it
left behind. Don't even get started on their automotive elecrical
systems.

You got something against smoke filled wires? My 70 MGB always put me
in touch with the road, if it was cold and rainy outside, it was cold
and rainy inside.

Jeff

On Jan 6, 2:59*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:35*am, Harry K wrote:





On Jan 5, 6:59*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er, comes off.
After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or chemical preservative
that washes off will be so small as to be undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of airborne
junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust (and a few bird
droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of the next rain, subsequent
water should be almost as pure as if it had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. *There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. *That all
comes out of the sky. *In the olden times there was a diverter *that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm to
get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K

Have you considered the possibility that the "mud" that you say comes
out of the sky is actually rotten leaves and other types of vegetation
that has composted in the gutter?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes I have. Leaves and other types of vegetation does not change to
'mud' over one season, especially in an arid climate such as mine.

Harry K

On Jan 6, 10:59*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:35*am, Harry K wrote:





On Jan 5, 6:59*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er, comes off.
After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or chemical preservative
that washes off will be so small as to be undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of airborne
junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust (and a few bird
droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of the next rain, subsequent
water should be almost as pure as if it had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. *There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. *That all
comes out of the sky. *In the olden times there was a diverter *that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm to
get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K

Have you considered the possibility that the "mud" that you say comes
out of the sky is actually rotten leaves and other types of vegetation
that has composted in the gutter?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I think it's partially that too. But I try to clear out my
gutters regularly & it's always there even if there are no leaves.

On Jan 6, 11:08*pm, Heathcliff wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:56*am, Edge wrote:

I know its winter. But being retired and with idle thoughts I am
looking at my neighbor's rain barrel that during the summer collects
rain runoff from his roof to water his plants. Our houses in the
development have basements with sump pumps. My own sump pump goes off
more regularly than it rains around here in the summer. Since the sump
collects clean ground water, is it okay to divert that water to a rain
barrel? Seems a better idea than dumping and wasting that water into
the storm sewers.

I side with the folks who say yes go ahead that water should be fine,
at least for lawn and flowers. *One thing I have noticed with my sump,
though, is that the water in the sump well is not always completely
clear; sometimes it has a little suspended dirt (i.e. it's a little
murky). *Nothing wrong with that either but it might tend to settle
out and form a layer of sludge in the bottom of your barrel. *Just
something to check for - if that happens you might need to stir it up
or flush the barrel out once in a while. *-- H

You might also use it to flush your toilet though that would take more
arranging.

On Jan 6, 11:15*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:32*am, Harry K wrote:





On Jan 5, 2:38*pm, " wrote:

On Jan 5, 5:02*pm, Edge wrote:

Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of *the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

well theres natural bacteria that eats motor oil, and worn tires too.

which is why the road berms dont have piles of tire dust along them.

so a litte oil or transmission fluid might not really matter, although
probably not a good idea to water vegies with contaminated water

And why not? You _do_ wash them off before use?

Harry K

I wash the outsides but I tend to have trouble getting the water out
of the *inside* of the vegetables.

There are interweb references that state the plants can absorb up to
7% of the lead in contaminated soil.

While the following site is speaking specifically about E .coli, I can
see reasons to follow the same precautions for any type of
contaminated water.

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09369.html

"It is important to prevent direct contact of potentially contaminated
water with the fruits or vegetables you plan to harvest. The type of
plant affects how you water. If the edible portion of the crop is
located above the soil, it is better to water with a drip system or a
furrow or flood system than with sprinklers. This will limit direct
contact between the water and the crop. If you have a limited drinking
water supply, save the best water for the period just prior to
harvest. Avoid using potentially contaminated water within 30 days of
harvest."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't think biological contamination is a big problem. Most
organisms dangerous to your health can't withstand outdoor life for
long.
However contaminated groundwater (from septic tanks eg) can be a mjor
problem for wells as it's being sonstsntly renewed from the source

Heavy metals are more of a big deal. I often wonder how much lead we
all were exposed to in our younger days and what effect it has/had. I
wonder too how much lead is still around. Not mention such as
asbestos, cadmium etc.

On Jan 7, 1:12*am, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:07:13 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:





harry wrote:
On Jan 6, 4:35 pm, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 5, 6:59 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils
or fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be
washed away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most
of the water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the
lawn, seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin
water and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er,
comes off. After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or
chemical preservative that washes off will be so small as to be
undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of
airborne junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust
(and a few bird droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of
the next rain, subsequent water should be almost as pure as if it
had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. That all
comes out of the sky. In the olden times there was a diverter that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm
to get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. I notice it notice even more as we now live by a highway. I
believe it's the dust kicked up by passing traffic. Rubber dust?

Yep. You don't see a ribbon of rubber dust alongside the road.

Applying the theory that "everything has to be somewhere," if the rubber
dust is not on the side of the road, it's got to be somewhere else.

Don't know about where you are, but MOST of the black crap in my eaves
troughs is composted vegetation - leaves and such that come off the
nearby trees. The rest of what is in the trough is the loose grit from
the shingles - but that's not black.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think you get grit off some new tiles but that dies away with age. I
have slates on my roof so the shouldn't be anything from that
source.
I certainly get dust on my car when it's left outside for a few days.
Hard to tell the colour of it. I don't worry, it rains.
I only worry if I can't see out the glass.

wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:07:13 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Don't know about where you are, but MOST of the black crap in my eaves
troughs is composted vegetation - leaves and such that come off the
nearby trees. The rest of what is in the trough is the loose grit from
the shingles - but that's not black.

Ah, but you may live in a hideaway, back in the forest, at the dead end of a
gravel road.

Those of us in urban settings have to confront all manner of muck.

In fact the Vatican (and the city of Rome) have roaming pressure-washer
crews (pardon the pun) that blow the caked-on mung from precious works of
art.

Imagine the victory statue of Marcus Aurelius, astride his mighty steed,
celebrating his victory over the Gauls.

Now imagine the largest flock of pigeons possible...

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 20:57:20 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Jan 6, 2:59Â*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 6, 11:35Â*am, Harry K wrote:





On Jan 5, 6:59Â*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Edge wrote:
Some of the replies raised the possiblities of contamination in
reusing the ground water from the sump well. If there are any oils or
fluids from leaks in cars parked in the driveway, they will be washed
away from the foundation of the house. I suspect that most of Â*the
water in the sump during our dry summers was from water that
percolated down to the drain tiles from watering plants near the
house. So reusing that water to water those plants again, or the lawn,
seems okay.

However it does raise a point. How contaiminate free is rain water
that has washed off roofs. I have cedar shingles. Don't they treat
them with fire retardants? I suppose rain water might be fine for
plants or lawns, but if you have a vegetable garden use virgin water
and not rain water or ground water.

With the first rain, 95% of whatever that is ever coming off, er, comes off.
After that first rain, any amount of fire retardant or chemical preservative
that washes off will be so small as to be undetectable.

During the interval between rains, however, an amazing amount of airborne
junk will settle on the roof - mostly in the form of dust (and a few bird
droppings). Again, after the first few gallons of the next rain, subsequent
water should be almost as pure as if it had been distilled.

I am always amazed every fall when I clean the gutters. Â*There will
always be at least a 1/4" of "mud" in the bottom of them. Â*That all
comes out of the sky. Â*In the olden times there was a diverter Â*that
was used to bypass the rain barrel during the start of a rain storm to
get rid of the "dirty" water.

Harry K

Have you considered the possibility that the "mud" that you say comes
out of the sky is actually rotten leaves and other types of vegetation
that has composted in the gutter?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes I have. Leaves and other types of vegetation does not change to
'mud' over one season, especially in an arid climate such as mine.

Harry K
Turns to mud in a couple months here.

On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 07:49:21 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:07:13 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Don't know about where you are, but MOST of the black crap in my eaves
troughs is composted vegetation - leaves and such that come off the
nearby trees. The rest of what is in the trough is the loose grit from
the shingles - but that's not black.

Ah, but you may live in a hideaway, back in the forest, at the dead end of a
gravel road.

Those of us in urban settings have to confront all manner of muck.

Definitely not a "hideaway". corner lot on the bus-route in the middle
of suburbia.But on a windy day we might still be getting wind-born
dust off the farmer's fields a few miles away.

In fact the Vatican (and the city of Rome) have roaming pressure-washer
crews (pardon the pun) that blow the caked-on mung from precious works of
art.

Imagine the victory statue of Marcus Aurelius, astride his mighty steed,
celebrating his victory over the Gauls.

Now imagine the largest flock of pigeons possible...