I really have no need to know the exact second of time. I do,
however, often wish electronic clocks could automatically set
themselves to an accuracy of a minute or so. I am sure I am not the
first to be unconvinced by having to reset the clock on my answering
machine or coffee maker after a power outage. I would also be nice if
my new camera could get the correct time/date from it's initial
charge.

Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?




Ok.........I know the answer. Cost. It is always about money, isn't
it?

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...

I really have no need to know the exact second of time. I do,
however, often wish electronic clocks could automatically set
themselves to an accuracy of a minute or so. I am sure I am not the
first to be unconvinced by having to reset the clock on my answering
machine or coffee maker after a power outage. I would also be nice if
my new camera could get the correct time/date from it's initial
charge. . . . It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?

Dollars and cents explain why this does not happen automatically
and without charge. Standard time laboratories all over the world
broadcast the time free via Internet, so your PC's internal clock can
reset itself accurately to a few seconds. The same laboratories
broadcast fee-paid time service capable of recalibrating laboratory
instruments etc. accurately to microseconds. No economic
market has yet emerged that will reset your mains-fed microwave or
your battery-operated camera at a price you are willing to pay.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Metspitzer wrote:

-snip-
Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?

You're just buying the wrong stuff. I have clocks that are set by
the atomic clock via satellite [though because of where we live the
clocks have to sit in a west facing window to be set]-- my DVR sets
itself through the cable- I suspect that's where my VCR figured out
what time it was- my InfoGlobe sets itself through the telephone
lines.

My $20 clock radio [one of the
'would-set-itself-if-I-left-it-in-the-window-at-the--end-of-the-house-clocks]
has a battery so I only need to set it once every few years. I hope
I didn't pay much for the unhandy feature of being able to set itself.

Jim

On 12/14/2010 4:44 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I really have no need to know the exact second of time. I do,
however, often wish electronic clocks could automatically set
themselves to an accuracy of a minute or so. I am sure I am not the
first to be unconvinced by having to reset the clock on my answering
machine or coffee maker after a power outage. I would also be nice if
my new camera could get the correct time/date from it's initial
charge.

Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?




Ok.........I know the answer. Cost. It is always about money, isn't
it?

Its a pretty common feature in devices anymore. Even my 5 year old low
end weather station has a receiver that listens to WWVB and gets very
accurate time and additional stuff like automatic DST changes since they
set a flag when we transition to DST.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/radioclocks.cfm

http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technol.../dp/B00077AA4W

http://www.amazon.com/Elegant-Radio-.../dp/B00070IUHS

On Dec 14, 6:01*pm, George wrote:
On 12/14/2010 4:44 PM, Metspitzer wrote:



I really have no need to know the exact second of time. *I do,
however, often wish electronic clocks could automatically set
themselves to an accuracy of a minute or so. *I am sure I am not the
first to be unconvinced by having to reset the clock on my answering
machine or coffee maker after a power outage. *I would also be nice if
my new camera could get the correct time/date from it's initial
charge.

Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. *It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. *Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. *Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?

Ok.........I know the answer. *Cost. *It is always about money, isn't
it?

Its a pretty common feature in devices anymore. Even my 5 year old low
end weather station has a receiver that listens to WWVB and gets very
accurate time and additional stuff like automatic DST changes since they
set a flag when we transition to DST.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/radioclocks.cfm

http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technol...h-Atomic/dp/B0...

http://www.amazon.com/Elegant-Radio-...tors/dp/B0...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same here. I have one of the Crosse Technologies wireless outdoor/
indoor temp displays and it sets the
clock via WWVB. Works great. I agree they should put this in more
appliances or at least a battery so
that it will keep time for a few hours if the power goes out. Around
here, the power loss isn't frequent and when
it does, 90% of the time it's for less than a minute. I suspect the
reason they don't put the radio link in appliances is that unlike the
wireless thermostat, a lot of time you don't have much control over
where to put it. And it might
not get pickup, then people would be complaining.

As for why not transmit it over the powerline, I think it comes down
to who would pay for it? You can't just have one
transmitter at the power plant. There would have to be eqpt installed
closer to the distribution endpoints and there
is no incentive for the power company to shell out the $$$.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:00:35 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
I have clocks that are set by the atomic clock via satellite

Actually it's set by direct transmission from a ground station. Same
idea though. These clocks are often, amusingly, labeled "atomic
clock". Just a minor elision there ...

It's already so cheap to pick up this signal that investing in another
one would be mostly redundant -- not always but usually.

GPS receivers get the time from the GPS birds, and that's an extremely
precise time. But a GPS receiver chip, even a very low end one, would
be considerably more expensive and would usually fail indoors.

Edward

"Metspitzer" wrote
Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?




Ok.........I know the answer. Cost. It is always about money, isn't
it?

See, you know the answer. The old motor driven analog clocks were very
accurate with the 60 cycle electricity. Digital are timed differently and
drift. They use a crystal oscillator that is not a perfect cycle of 60.
I'm sure someone can explain it better.

In article ,
Metspitzer wrote:

I really have no need to know the exact second of time. I do,
however, often wish electronic clocks could automatically set
themselves to an accuracy of a minute or so. I am sure I am not the
first to be unconvinced by having to reset the clock on my answering
machine or coffee maker after a power outage. I would also be nice if
my new camera could get the correct time/date from it's initial
charge.

Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?




Ok.........I know the answer. Cost. It is always about money, isn't
it?

I thought Bluetooth was supposed to be the 8th technological wonder of
the world. You know, your electric toothbrush calls your cell phone to
tell you that your kid dropped it in the toilet, and since you're not
there to box his ears, you call the toaster to lock him out, so he has
to eat his pop tart cold.

Everything in the house was supposed to have bluetooth in it. The
toaster, the iron, the light switches, the pencil sharpener. They were
all supposed to talk to each other. You were going to have to pay about
50 cents per gadget for this wonderful innovation.

The trouble with technology is, there's way more of it than any
reasonable person needs or wants. The whole house automation thing has
been around for decades, but it's still just a gimmick. I know we have a
couple of X10 guys here, but they're in the minority by a long shot.

Back in the sixties, they were saying that by the eighties we'd be
cruising through supermarkets with laser guided shopping carts. People
are supposed to be using automated spreadsheets to keep track of how
many ****ing cans of tomato soup are in the cupboard.

So yeah, updating those three dozen clocks on all your appliances isn't
happening automatically, because you forgot to buy a bluetooth enabled
answering machine and coffee maker. How shortsighted.

On 12/15/2010 1:02 AM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:


Our very inexpensive clock radios automatically sync themselves,
presumably from satellite, and also adjust for DST. There are no
fees involved.

What brand and model#? I'm interested in getting one.

Jim Elbrecht wrote the following:
Metspitzer wrote:

-snip-

Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen?


You're just buying the wrong stuff. I have clocks that are set by
the atomic clock via satellite [though because of where we live the
clocks have to sit in a west facing window to be set]-- my DVR sets
itself through the cable- I suspect that's where my VCR figured out
what time it was- my InfoGlobe sets itself through the telephone
lines.

My $20 clock radio [one of the
'would-set-itself-if-I-left-it-in-the-window-at-the--end-of-the-house-clocks]
has a battery so I only need to set it once every few years. I hope
I didn't pay much for the unhandy feature of being able to set itself.

Jim

My tall case grandfather clock always keeps the time during a power
outage. The pendulum just keeps on a-swinging. :-)

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Dec 15, 12:00*pm, willshak wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote the following:



Metspitzer wrote:

-snip-

Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. *It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. *Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. *Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen? *

You're just buying the wrong stuff. * *I have clocks that are set by
the atomic clock via satellite *[though because of where we live the
clocks have to sit in a west facing window to be set]-- my DVR sets
itself through the cable- I suspect that's where my VCR figured out
what time it was- my InfoGlobe sets itself through the telephone
lines.

My $20 clock radio [one of the
'would-set-itself-if-I-left-it-in-the-window-at-the--end-of-the-house-clock s]
has a battery so I only need to set it once every few years. * *I hope
I didn't pay much for the unhandy feature of being able to set itself.

Jim

My tall case grandfather clock always keeps the time during a power
outage. The pendulum just keeps on a-swinging. *:-)

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

THAT'S THE TICKET...
OR HE CAN JUST LEAVE IT UNPLUGGED UNTIL PRECISELY 12 OCLOCK NOON THE
MEXT DAY.
THEN PLUG IT IN, IT WILL BE SET.
I HAUNT A KID WHOS PARENTS HAVE OVER A DOZEN CLOCKS AROUND THE HOUSE,
AND THAT IS HOW HE DOES IT : ) LOL

PATECUM

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
. 190.71...
On Wed 15 Dec 2010 09:37:37a, Peter told us...

On 12/15/2010 1:02 AM, Wayne Boatwright wrote:


Our very inexpensive clock radios automatically sync themselves,
presumably from satellite, and also adjust for DST. There are no
fees involved.

What brand and model#? I'm interested in getting one.


Emerson Research #CKS2023. I bought two of them at Big Lots! about 4
years ago.

Are you sure those are time-radio based? The ones I bought just have a huge
coin cell battery to "remember" the time and a super-accurate clock
mechanism. That's what they call "SmartSet" - The giveaway is that when the
power returns, they spend a few seconds running through the numbers on he
display. CKS1862 is the model I have and IIRC, the box was quite deceptive
about whether it was a "radio set" clock. I was going to take it back (to
Wal-mart) but after setting it up, I decided "what the heck" and kept it.
Glad I did. It's a very good clock.

I actually prefer a non-radio clock because updating inside the house is a
spotty procedure at best because of plaster lath making some rooms a Faraday
cage. I believe the Emersons come set to the proper "zulu" time when you
buy the clock (battery is good for 5 years - it's the biggest coin cell
battery I've ever seen) and you just set the time zone you're in. I believe
if that battery goes dead or you remove it, you'll have to reset the time
manually. That test is up to you because mine's been holding time as well
as my PC that gets the time from the Naval Observatory so I can't complain.
The clock also allows you to reset the onset/end of DST if Congress decides
to muck with it *again.*

So radio set or not, I'd still recommend them. Mine's been going over two
years without dropping a minute and has big blue numbers I can read without
my glasses - mostly.

http://www.emersonradio.com/owners/S...023_020504.pdf

--
Bobby G.

On Dec 14, 5:44*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I really have no need to know the exact second of time. *I do,
however, often wish electronic clocks could automatically set
themselves to an accuracy of a minute or so. *I am sure I am not the
first to be unconvinced by having to reset the clock on my answering
machine or coffee maker after a power outage. *I would also be nice if
my new camera could get the correct time/date from it's initial
charge.

Because it is not already being done, there must be more to it than
meets the eye. *It seems like it would be trivial to just transmit the
time/date code over the power lines. *Anything plugged in should
become automatically set. *Can someone enlighten me on why this
doesn't already happen? *

Ok.........I know the answer. *Cost. *It is always about money, isn't
it?

This technology has been on the gonna happen shelf for a long time. It
may be getting a lot closer. Power companies are begining to charge by
"net metering" Cost per KWH will depend on the time of day you use it.
Your power meter will be in relatively constant communication with the
PoCo so the data will be on the the powerlines. When this happens
added circuitry in a device to set clocks should only cost a few
cents. The chip in your clock that does the main work probably isnt a
dedicated clock chip. More than likely it is in fact a microprocessor
so most of the hardware to do this job is already there.


Jimmie

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

[snip]

See, you know the answer. The old motor driven analog clocks were very
accurate with the 60 cycle electricity. Digital are timed differently and
drift. They use a crystal oscillator that is not a perfect cycle of 60.
I'm sure someone can explain it better.

Plug-in digital clocks use the powerline frequency, just like analog clocks
do. For battery backup, they can use cheap RC oscillators (no crystal).

The plug-in clocks with battery backup I've used are usually fast during a
power outage. If the outage is longer than 5 minutes, you may need to reset
those clocks.

This is true for the "Intellitime" clock that PRETENDS to set itself.

--
8 days until The winter celebration (Saturday December 25, 2010 12:00:00
AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"Humanism : An exaltation of freedom, but one limited by our need to
exercise it as an integral part of nature and society." -- John Ralston
Saul, The Doubter's Companion

I haven't seen new clocks which use the mains frequency for a long time.
Quartz cock movements had be had for a couple of pounds now.

Here in the UK we used to have a radio time signal transmitted from Rugby.
A few years ago BT lost the contract for it, and it's now transmitted by a
different company from a transmitter in Cumbria. The frequency is very low,
so the old Rugby transmitter needed a large tuning coil, this large:-

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...o/index2.shtml


On 18/12/10 03:34, in article ,
"Mark Lloyd" wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

[snip]

See, you know the answer. The old motor driven analog clocks were very
accurate with the 60 cycle electricity. Digital are timed differently and
drift. They use a crystal oscillator that is not a perfect cycle of 60.
I'm sure someone can explain it better.

Plug-in digital clocks use the powerline frequency, just like analog clocks
do. For battery backup, they can use cheap RC oscillators (no crystal).

The plug-in clocks with battery backup I've used are usually fast during a
power outage. If the outage is longer than 5 minutes, you may need to reset
those clocks.

This is true for the "Intellitime" clock that PRETENDS to set itself.