I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinion

I have the same doubts as you do, but as an electrician that does tons of
work with plumbers, I can tell you that they all love the stuff, they swear
by it, and assure me that it won't fall apart ten years from now. I'm still
a skeptic, but for whatever reason, the stuff has made believers out of
plumbers.

On Nov 25, 8:20*am, "RBM" wrote:
"brassplyer" wrote in message

...

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, *the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinion

I have the same doubts as you do, but as an electrician that does tons of
work with plumbers, I can tell you that they all love the stuff, they swear
by it, and assure me that it won't fall apart ten years from now. I'm still
a skeptic, but for whatever reason, the stuff has made believers out of
plumbers.

Like you and RBM, I have my doubts too. I'd use one if it made a job
a lot easier, but it wouldn't be my first choice. AFAIK, they are
relatively new and I haven't seen anything showing a history of
decades of reliability.

A little story here to amuse too. There's a local ACE hardware store
that's a real pain in the ass. Everytime you walk in, one of the
village idiot store employees walks up and asks if they can help
you. That's fine, to a point. But they can't just point you to the
isle and get lost. Instead, they like to start asking all kinds of
questions, try to re-engineer what you're doing, when they are totally
clueless. As an example, I went in and was looking for screws. The
guy comes over and asks if I need help. I tell him I'm looking for
round headed wood screws. He shows me flat headed ones, which I
already saw. Then, he looks at me like he never heard of or saw a
round headed one. Next, he's asking what it is I'm doing and starts
recommending sheet metal screws.

On another trip, this same idiot was recommending those Shark Bite
fittings, telling me how wonderful they are, how he uses them at the
local school. On that trip I was looking for a pressure gauge for a
residential water system and he had told me a couple minutes before
that city water pressure is about 2 PSI......

wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 8:20 am, "RBM" wrote:
"brassplyer" wrote in message

...

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinion

I have the same doubts as you do, but as an electrician that does tons of
work with plumbers, I can tell you that they all love the stuff, they
swear
by it, and assure me that it won't fall apart ten years from now. I'm
still
a skeptic, but for whatever reason, the stuff has made believers out of
plumbers.

Like you and RBM, I have my doubts too. I'd use one if it made a job
a lot easier, but it wouldn't be my first choice. AFAIK, they are
relatively new and I haven't seen anything showing a history of
decades of reliability.

A little story here to amuse too. There's a local ACE hardware store
that's a real pain in the ass. Everytime you walk in, one of the
village idiot store employees walks up and asks if they can help
you. That's fine, to a point. But they can't just point you to the
isle and get lost. Instead, they like to start asking all kinds of
questions, try to re-engineer what you're doing, when they are totally
clueless. As an example, I went in and was looking for screws. The
guy comes over and asks if I need help. I tell him I'm looking for
round headed wood screws. He shows me flat headed ones, which I
already saw. Then, he looks at me like he never heard of or saw a
round headed one. Next, he's asking what it is I'm doing and starts
recommending sheet metal screws.

On another trip, this same idiot was recommending those Shark Bite
fittings, telling me how wonderful they are, how he uses them at the
local school. On that trip I was looking for a pressure gauge for a
residential water system and he had told me a couple minutes before
that city water pressure is about 2 PSI......

Bottom line, there is no history. I'm sure back in time someone, somewhere
said: It's galvanized, can't rust, it'll last forever

brassplyer wrote in news:cde6b25b-0278-468d-bdac-
:

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?

I wouldn't want one in my wall, difficult to access location, location
where failure could cause a lot of damage, etc.

Plumbers love the stuff and they swear by it? Like they did with
polybutylene pipes and fittings?

Sweating works. Proven for decades. Assume what you have now is Cu.

Sweat coupling/elbow .50-1.00
Sharkbite fittings http://www.plumbingsupply.com/shark-bite-fittings.html

Guess I'm just old and inflexible. I remember my grandfather telling us
if you put that water paint (latex) on something outside it will wash off
when it rains.

Here's some generally positive experiences.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f9/sha...ittings-15746/

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?

I had to crawl under my cabin to repair a water line that froze and burst.
I went to buy the parts, compression fittings, and when I saw the
sharkbites, was a little skeptical, but got them anyway. Talk about sweet.
Not sure about longevity, but after three years, mine's still holding. It
saved a ton of work from not having to pull a lot of line to get it to where
I could sweat it safely.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:04:25 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

brassplyer wrote in news:cde6b25b-0278-468d-bdac-
:

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?

I wouldn't want one in my wall, difficult to access location, location
where failure could cause a lot of damage, etc.

Plumbers love the stuff and they swear by it? Like they did with
polybutylene pipes and fittings?

Sweating works. Proven for decades. Assume what you have now is Cu.

Sweat coupling/elbow .50-1.00
Sharkbite fittings http://www.plumbingsupply.com/shark-bite-fittings.html

Guess I'm just old and inflexible. I remember my grandfather telling us
if you put that water paint (latex) on something outside it will wash off
when it rains.


You're a modernist.
I still prefer galvanized. It works too.

--Vic

On Nov 25, 7:50*am, brassplyer wrote:

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, *the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?

I love the things for some applications. If you're doing a largish
job the fitting cost will add up very quickly, but for smaller jobs,
particularly repairs, they're a godsend. Snip, snip, click, done.

As far as the longevity, Cash Acme has been around for a hundred years
and the fittings come with a 25 year warranty. I know warranties
always exclude anything but product replacement, but if the product is
defective a class action suit will bring almost any company to its
knees, so I doubt Cash Acme took the long warranty lightly.

There's not a lot that can go wrong with the fittings. As long as
care is taken to make clean cuts and debur the pipe inside and out,
then it's all up to the EPDM O-ring - and there's a long positive
history on those under a lot tougher conditions than residential water
temps and pressures.

As far as guarantees, there are none. Not too long ago I had to open
up a ceiling, then a tiled tub apron, to get to a sweated copper
fitting that the plumber had gotten _almost_ 100% good. It lasted for
more than three years before the leak showed up. He was a good
plumber, had used him on projects for 20 years and he wasn't rushing.
Stuff happens.

R

On 11/25/2010 7:37 AM, wrote:
On Nov 25, 8:20 am, wrote:
wrote in message

...

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinion

I have the same doubts as you do, but as an electrician that does tons of
work with plumbers, I can tell you that they all love the stuff, they swear
by it, and assure me that it won't fall apart ten years from now. I'm still
a skeptic, but for whatever reason, the stuff has made believers out of
plumbers.

Like you and RBM, I have my doubts too. I'd use one if it made a job
a lot easier, but it wouldn't be my first choice. AFAIK, they are
relatively new and I haven't seen anything showing a history of
decades of reliability.

A little story here to amuse too. There's a local ACE hardware store
that's a real pain in the ass. Everytime you walk in, one of the
village idiot store employees walks up and asks if they can help
you. That's fine, to a point. But they can't just point you to the
isle and get lost. Instead, they like to start asking all kinds of
questions, try to re-engineer what you're doing, when they are totally
clueless. As an example, I went in and was looking for screws. The
guy comes over and asks if I need help. I tell him I'm looking for
round headed wood screws. He shows me flat headed ones, which I
already saw. Then, he looks at me like he never heard of or saw a
round headed one. Next, he's asking what it is I'm doing and starts
recommending sheet metal screws.

On another trip, this same idiot was recommending those Shark Bite
fittings, telling me how wonderful they are, how he uses them at the
local school. On that trip I was looking for a pressure gauge for a
residential water system and he had told me a couple minutes before
that city water pressure is about 2 PSI......

The city of ancient Rome? :-)

TDD

On Nov 25, 7:50*am, brassplyer wrote:
I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, *the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?

"Any experiences or opinions?"

I've used them for one project and as far as ease of installation, I
can't say enough good things about them.

I've used compressions fittings and sweated lots of connections, so I
have experience with all three technologies.

Project: Front hose spigot was at street pressure, plumbed before PRV.
Backyard spigot was after PRV, therefore had much less pressure. The
project was to tap into the street pressure pipe at the front of the
house, run a pipe across the basement ceiling - up in the joist bay,
over some duct work, over the I-Beam, over some more duct work, etc.
to the back of the house. I had avoided it for years because it was
going to be a real pain in the arse.

Then I heard about Shark Bites and decided to give them a try.

The first task was to remove the existing pipe and shut-off for the
backyard spigot from the house system. I was watching a football game
when I decided to get started. When a commercial came on, I turned off
the main water valve, cut the pipe to the hose spigot, popped on a
Shark Bite cap and turned the water back on - all before the
commercial was over.

I then sweated a bunch of short pieces of copper together on my
workbench to create a zig-zaggy run to get me from the joist bay down
to where the spigot came out of the wall.

Last Part: I cut the street pressure pipe (up in the cramped junction
of the rim joist and sub-floor) and slipped in a Shark Bite tee.
There's no need to "aim" to tee in the direction you need to go since
the Shark Bite fittings swivel after they are installed. I then ran a
single length of PEX across the basement, used one more Shark Bite
fitting to connect it to the copper set-up I had made earlier and I
was done.

Since both Shark Bite connections were made in very tight quarters but
no sweating or tools were required in those spaces, the job couldn't
have been easier. The single run of PEX, instead of multiple lengths
of copper over the duct work, etc. was a breeze.

As far as longevity, I can only trust that they will last as long as
everyone says they will. As far as installation, as I said, I think
they are perfect for quick jobs and tight spaces.

Yes, they are much more expensive than sweat fittings, but since time
is money in many cases, the time saved with Shark Bites could offset
the cost even on big jobs. I'll leave to some one else to run those
numbers.

On Nov 25, 9:46*am, "RBM" wrote:

Bottom line, there is no history. I'm sure back in time someone, somewhere
said: It's galvanized, can't rust, it'll last forever


Yeah, that was back in the good old days before water supply and
distribution became a chemistry experiment...

~~ Evan

On Nov 25, 1:25*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 11/25/2010 7:37 AM, wrote:

On another trip, this same idiot was recommending those Shark Bite
fittings, telling me how wonderful they are, how he uses them at the
local school. * On that trip I was looking for a pressure gauge for a
residential water system and he had told me a couple minutes before
that city water pressure is about 2 PSI......

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - if the guy's an idjit,
that doesn't mean everything they mention is crap.

It wasn't clear from your post - have you ever tried a Sharkbite
fitting?

The city of ancient Rome? :-)

Did you ever see the height of some of those aqueducts? I wonder if
they were able to develop a pressurized water distribution system.
100' high aqueduct would provide over 40 psi. I wonder if the Romans
had pressure washers...?

R

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 04:50:52 -0800 (PST), brassplyer
wrote:

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?
I've used a few in places where soldering or compression fittings
would have been extremely difficult if not impossible. So far no
problems, but tney are not 20 years old yet, either.
Personally I don't like compression fittings. My experience is they
"always" leak. Very, very little, but enough that after a few years
there is green-white corrosion / mineral deposit all around them.

Whenever possible, on copper plumbing, I solder.
As for springing a leak inside a wall, copper pipe has been known to
do that too. So has galvanized iron pipe.

On 11/25/2010 1:13 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 25, 1:25 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 11/25/2010 7:37 AM, wrote:

On another trip, this same idiot was recommending those Shark Bite
fittings, telling me how wonderful they are, how he uses them at the
local school. On that trip I was looking for a pressure gauge for a
residential water system and he had told me a couple minutes before
that city water pressure is about 2 PSI......

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - if the guy's an idjit,
that doesn't mean everything they mention is crap.

It wasn't clear from your post - have you ever tried a Sharkbite
fitting?

The city of ancient Rome? :-)

Did you ever see the height of some of those aqueducts? I wonder if
they were able to develop a pressurized water distribution system.
100' high aqueduct would provide over 40 psi. I wonder if the Romans
had pressure washers...?

R

I could have sworn that I read or saw a documentary showing that there
is an original Roman fountain that is still flowing without interruption
in the same location it was built centuries ago but I couldn't find a
reference with a quick search. I did find that some have been moved and
or restored. I do think that their high tech lead pipes, dinnerware and
lead containing food and drink may have caused their slow decline.

I have to wonder what the world would be like if The Roman Empire had
endured? I suppose we would be speaking Latin? Remember the Star Trek
episode "Bread and Circuses" from the original series showing Romans
with machine guns and televised gladiatorial fights? 8-)

TDD

wrote in news:hjgte69dpuod818gt2li4c4o45vrss1394@
4ax.com:

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 04:50:52 -0800 (PST), brassplyer
wrote:

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?
I've used a few in places where soldering or compression fittings
would have been extremely difficult if not impossible. So far no
problems, but tney are not 20 years old yet, either.
Personally I don't like compression fittings. My experience is they
"always" leak. Very, very little, but enough that after a few years
there is green-white corrosion / mineral deposit all around them.

Whenever possible, on copper plumbing, I solder.
As for springing a leak inside a wall, copper pipe has been known to
do that too. So has galvanized iron pipe.


Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

On Nov 25, 4:48*pm, Red Green wrote:


Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

We have an Invacare whirlpool tub at work that had Sharkbite fittings
on the sanitizer system and had one leak after a year and a different
one fail at about 2+ years.
I wasn't impressed with them being used on a commercial unit.

On Nov 25, 6:13*pm, Bob Villa wrote:
On Nov 25, 4:48*pm, Red Green wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

We have an Invacare whirlpool tub at work that had Sharkbite fittings
on the sanitizer system and had one leak after a year and a different
one fail at about 2+ years.
I wasn't impressed with them being used on a commercial unit.

Yeah, that's odd. It wouldn't inspire confidence to see what's really
a retrofit fitting used that way.

R

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:13:58 -0800 (PST), Bob Villa
wrote:

On Nov 25, 4:48*pm, Red Green wrote:


Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

We have an Invacare whirlpool tub at work that had Sharkbite fittings
on the sanitizer system and had one leak after a year and a different
one fail at about 2+ years.
I wasn't impressed with them being used on a commercial unit.

A couple questions.
Were these *real* sharkbites, or 'sharkbite type'?
Installed at the factory, or during the site install?
Were they in a spot that might be getting some vibration from the
whirlpool?

I've got just one in my house- in a spot I dread having to solder-
though I will if I ever get a drip, but it has been a few years now.
Maybe by then they'll have waterproof duct tape.g

Jim

On Nov 25, 7:18*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 25, 6:13*pm, Bob Villa wrote:

On Nov 25, 4:48*pm, Red Green wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

We have an Invacare whirlpool tub at work that had Sharkbite fittings
on the sanitizer system and had one leak after a year and a different
one fail at about 2+ years.
I wasn't impressed with them being used on a commercial unit.

Yeah, that's odd. *It wouldn't inspire confidence to see what's really
a retrofit fitting used that way.

R

Why do you say that they are "retrofit fittings"?

On Nov 25, 8:32*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Nov 25, 7:18*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Yeah, that's odd. *It wouldn't inspire confidence to see what's really
a retrofit fitting used that way.


Why do you say that they are "retrofit fittings"?

Because I think it is their strongest point, not that they are limited
to just that. They're too expensive to plumb an entire house or
addition - doesn't make sense financially - and their ability to marry
PVC, PEX, and copper makes them ideal for plumbing repair work and
transitions from old to new.

R

On Nov 25, 6:18*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 25, 6:13*pm, Bob Villa wrote:

On Nov 25, 4:48*pm, Red Green wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

We have an Invacare whirlpool tub at work that had Sharkbite fittings
on the sanitizer system and had one leak after a year and a different
one fail at about 2+ years.
I wasn't impressed with them being used on a commercial unit.

Yeah, that's odd. *It wouldn't inspire confidence to see what's really
a retrofit fitting used that way.

R

From what I have read, it seems like any installation that has
vibrations would be suspect. Also, I wonder how often they are
assembled without thoroughly deburring the pipes they are joining.

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 14:19:48 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I have to wonder what the world would be like if The Roman Empire had
endured? I suppose we would be speaking Latin?


Greek, more likely. Even at the dawn of the empire, the educated
class (which means the governing class) spoke Greek as often as
Latin. With the transfer of the capital to Constantinople, the
language of government gradually shifted to Greek, though I believe
Latin survived longer in the army.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

On 11/25/2010 10:39 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 14:19:48 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I have to wonder what the world would be like if The Roman Empire had
endured? I suppose we would be speaking Latin?


Greek, more likely. Even at the dawn of the empire, the educated
class (which means the governing class) spoke Greek as often as
Latin. With the transfer of the capital to Constantinople, the
language of government gradually shifted to Greek, though I believe
Latin survived longer in the army.


Well heck, the language of diplomacy was once French. The language
of aviation is English except when French pilots refuse to speak it
and wind up making a big smoking hole in the ground. :-)

TDD

Jim wanted to know...

A couple questions.
Were these *real* sharkbites, or 'sharkbite type'?
Installed at the factory, or during the site install?
Were they in a spot that might be getting some vibration from the
whirlpool?

These are "actual" SharkBites installed at the factory used on 1/4"
poly tubing subject to pump vibration within inches of the sanitizer.
(So they probably lose their grip on the polyethylene)

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 05:37:26 -0800 (PST), Bob Villa
wrote:

Jim wanted to know...

A couple questions.
Were these *real* sharkbites, or 'sharkbite type'?
Installed at the factory, or during the site install?
Were they in a spot that might be getting some vibration from the
whirlpool?

These are "actual" SharkBites installed at the factory used on 1/4"
poly tubing subject to pump vibration within inches of the sanitizer.
(So they probably lose their grip on the polyethylene)

Hadn't even thought of the poly. I would say the recipe for
disaster here includes somebody in a factory shoving them together all
day & not paying particular attention to them- the poly instead of a
more solid bite like on copper- and then the vibrations.

I feel better about mine already.g Thanks.

Jim

On Nov 26, 9:02*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 05:37:26 -0800 (PST), Bob Villa

wrote:
Jim wanted to know...

A couple questions.
Were these *real* sharkbites, or 'sharkbite type'?
Installed at the factory, or during the site install?
Were they in a spot that might be getting some vibration from the
whirlpool?

These are "actual" SharkBites installed at the factory used on 1/4"
poly tubing subject to pump vibration within inches of the sanitizer.
(So they probably lose their grip on the polyethylene)

Hadn't even thought of the poly. * * I would say the recipe for
disaster here includes somebody in a factory shoving them together all
day & not paying particular attention to them- the poly instead of a
more solid bite like on copper- and then the vibrations.

I feel better about mine already.g *Thanks.

The Sharkbite fittings have stainless steel teeth that grab onto the
pipe. I could see in an extreme vibration situation like the
whirlpool that the teeth would pretty quickly gnaw into the plastic
pipe and compromises the hold on the pipe. A recipe for disaster. It
makes me wonder who was asleep at the wheel when the decision was made
to use that type of fitting in that application. Who was the
manufacturer?

R

On Nov 26, 9:15*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 26, 9:02*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:



On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 05:37:26 -0800 (PST), Bob Villa

wrote:
Jim wanted to know...

A couple questions.
Were these *real* sharkbites, or 'sharkbite type'?
Installed at the factory, or during the site install?
Were they in a spot that might be getting some vibration from the
whirlpool?

These are "actual" SharkBites installed at the factory used on 1/4"
poly tubing subject to pump vibration within inches of the sanitizer.
(So they probably lose their grip on the polyethylene)

Hadn't even thought of the poly. * * I would say the recipe for
disaster here includes somebody in a factory shoving them together all
day & not paying particular attention to them- the poly instead of a
more solid bite like on copper- and then the vibrations.

I feel better about mine already.g *Thanks.

The Sharkbite fittings have stainless steel teeth that grab onto the
pipe. *I could see in an extreme vibration situation like the
whirlpool that the teeth would pretty quickly gnaw into the plastic
pipe and compromises the hold on the pipe. *A recipe for disaster. *It
makes me wonder who was asleep at the wheel when the decision was made
to use that type of fitting in that application. *Who was the
manufacturer?

R

Silcraft/Invacare

RBM wrote:

A little story here to amuse too. There's a local ACE hardware store
that's a real pain in the ass. Everytime you walk in, one of the
village idiot store employees walks up and asks if they can help
you. That's fine, to a point. But they can't just point you to the
isle and get lost. Instead, they like to start asking all kinds of
questions, try to re-engineer what you're doing, when they are totally
clueless. As an example, I went in and was looking for screws. The
guy comes over and asks if I need help. I tell him I'm looking for
round headed wood screws. He shows me flat headed ones, which I
already saw. Then, he looks at me like he never heard of or saw a
round headed one. Next, he's asking what it is I'm doing and starts
recommending sheet metal screws.

Don't even get me started on that! My (now) standard response for the
inevitable "what are you doing" question is to reply with "I'm just trying
to see what you have right now."

It usually gives them enough of a clue to go away. Until the next helpful
little butterfly tries to land on me.

Jon

On Nov 26, 12:18*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
RBM wrote:

A little story here to amuse too. * There's a local ACE hardware store
that's a real pain in the ass. * Everytime you walk in, one of the
village idiot store employees walks up and asks if they can help
you. * That's fine, to a point. * But they can't just point you to the
isle and get lost. * Instead, they like to start asking all kinds of
questions, try to re-engineer what you're doing, when they are totally
clueless. * As an example, I went in and was looking for screws. * The
guy comes over and asks if I need help. * I tell him I'm looking for
round headed wood screws. * He shows me flat headed ones, which I
already saw. * Then, he looks at me like he never heard of or saw a
round headed one. * Next, he's asking what it is I'm doing and starts
recommending sheet metal screws.

*Don't even get me started on that! *My (now) standard response for the
inevitable "what are you doing" question is to reply with "I'm just trying
to see what you have right now."

It usually gives them enough of a clue to go away. *Until the next helpful
little butterfly tries to land on me.

Jon

Of course the flip side is when you luck upon a person who actually
knows what he's talking about.

When I was browsing the Home Depot plumbing department and looking
into the Shark Bites for the project I mentioned earlier, an employee
asked me what I was planning on using them for. Not only did he know
all about the Shark Bites, he saved me some money by pointing out the
"hidden" stash of shorter lengths of PEX.

Prominently displayed were the 10' straight lengths and the 50' & 100'
rolls. When I said that I would need three 10 footers and a couple of
in-line Shark Bites to make up my 22' length, he pointed me towards
the barely-labeled boxed rolls of 25' that were down on the bottom
shelf. Between the cheaper PEX and the elimination of two $6 fittings,
he probably saved me close to 50% on this small project.

When I playing with the Shark Bite tee and thought out loud about
"aiming" it so I could attached the PEX, it was he that pointed out
that they swivel so no "aiming" was required. Had I gotten home and
found that the fitting was "loose" on the pipe, I probably would have
panicked.

Sometimes you just never know who knows what.

wrote in news:hjgte69dpuod818gt2li4c4o45vrss1394@
4ax.com:

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 04:50:52 -0800 (PST), brassplyer
wrote:

I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?
I've used a few in places where soldering or compression fittings
would have been extremely difficult if not impossible. So far no
problems, but tney are not 20 years old yet, either.
Personally I don't like compression fittings. My experience is they
"always" leak. Very, very little, but enough that after a few years
there is green-white corrosion / mineral deposit all around them.

Whenever possible, on copper plumbing, I solder.
As for springing a leak inside a wall, copper pipe has been known to
do that too. So has galvanized iron pipe.



Personally I don't like compression fittings.

Everybody is different. Personally I like them for sink & toilet
shutoffs. Never had an issue which explains why I like them. Tighten to
box directions. If there's a drip, tighten 1/2 to 1 flat. Never back up.

On Nov 25, 9:53*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 25, 8:32*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Nov 25, 7:18*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Yeah, that's odd. *It wouldn't inspire confidence to see what's really
a retrofit fitting used that way.

Why do you say that they are "retrofit fittings"?

Because I think it is their strongest point, not that they are limited
to just that. *They're too expensive to plumb an entire house or
addition - doesn't make sense financially - and their ability to marry
PVC, PEX, and copper makes them ideal for plumbing repair work and
transitions from old to new.

R

"They're too expensive to plumb an entire house or
addition...doesn't make sense financially"

I'm not arguing, but I'd like to see some actual numbers on that. With
long single runs of PEX from a Shark Bite manifold to each fixture, or
even a manifold and some Tee's sprinkled in here and there, the
*labor* savings would be huge.

If the job was priced based on "labor and materials" as opposed to a
"per fixture" flat rate I wonder which one would work out better for
both the client and the contractor. Two "expensive" Push and Click
connections at each end of a 75' twisted run vs. sweating a "cheap" CU
connection at each junction. The time savings might well be worth it.

I know that from my admittedly limited experience, the extra cost for
the Shark Bites vs. how quickly I was done with the job was well worth
it - and I was basically working for free.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...


Of course the flip side is when you luck upon a person who actually
knows what he's talking about.

Good story. When I run into employees like that I try to find a manager on
the way out of the store and tell them how helpful and knowledgeable [Carl,
Leroy, Stella] was. It shouldn't be necessary to do that, employees should
be helpful and knowledgeable, but these days you need to point out the good
ones to make sure they're still there next time.

I have the same doubts as you do, but as an electrician that does tons of
work with plumbers, I can tell you that they all love the stuff, they
swear by it, and assure me that it won't fall apart ten years from now.
I'm still a skeptic, but for whatever reason, the stuff has made believers
out of plumbers.

Well, the "failure mechnism" of an o-ring seal is wear of the o-ring with
pressure fluxuations. But in a domestic water situation, the temperatures
do change much and the pressures aren't extreme. That minimizes wear and
fatigue.

IOW: it's a near static situation.

The "record" in static situation for O-rings it quite outstanding: WWII
aircraft found in deserts after 50+ years still had charged accumulators
(nitrogen over hydrollic oil).

Over the past decades plumbers have had to replace gross amounts of plactic
plumbing from problems that showed up after 5+ years. Compared to that, I
would expect the o-rings to outlast any plastic pipe.

On Nov 26, 7:22*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 04:50:52 -0800 (PST), brassplyer

wrote:
I needed to replace an outside spigot, was hoping for find one that
used a compression fitting, *the guy at Home Depot was trying to sell
me on these Shark Bite pipe fittings.

Seeing that the crucial interface pieces appeared to be some kind of
PVC and an O-ring I was leery, wondering what the long term
dependability of it would be compared to time-tested compression
fittings or soldered joints. "Quick and easy" doesn't inspire trust.
Okay, it works for now, but how's it going to hold up 5, 10, 15 years
from now? You obviously don't want it degrading and springing a leak
inside a wall, perhaps undetected for an extended period while it
causes water damage.

Any experiences or opinions?

Are you talking about those plastic fittings where the outer shell is
pushed forward to install the pipe, and snaps back when the pipe is
inserted? *If this is what you mean, I used several of those on a Pex
job when I re did my bathroom. *I never wanted to use the PEX in the
first place. *The whole house is copper, but several years ago I was
out of town when the toilet pipe froze and I had to hire a plumber,
and he ran some PEX up to the bathroom. *I intended to rip it out and
put in all copper but the driod at the store told me that PEX is the
best and did his best to sell me on that crap. *When I found out the
cost of the tool to put on the rings, I bought those snap on
connectors (which I believe is what you mean). *

For the last year since I re-did the bathroom, everytime someone used
the shower there was water dripping in basement under the tub. *I
caulked and recaulked around the tub suround and bitched at everyone
in the house about spraying too much water on the walls. *Last month I
finally ripped out the wall behind the tub in the room behind it, and
found that snap together connector leaking by the shower head. *The
floor under it was getting bad and moldy. *I looks like everytime
someone adjusted the shower head, that elbow fitting moved until it
was halfway off the pipe. *I relaced the divereter to shower head pipe
with copper and have not closed up that wall yet, because I am going
to replace all the PEX with copper. *I should have listened to myself
and not that droid in the first place. *I wont be using any more of
those connectors or for that matter, PEX. *

For the past 60 years of my life, plumbing meant solid pipe, not hoses
(which is what PEX is). *I'll keep it that way from now on. *Copper
costs more, but compared to the cost of those fittings, I would have
spent the same amount if I had done what I wanted in the first place,
and would not have had to rip open a wall and deal with bad boards and
mold inside the wall. *Live and learn !!!! *Newer don't always mean
better.....

"Are you talking about those plastic fittings where the outer
shell is pushed forward to install the pipe, and snaps back when the
pipe is inserted?"

I'm not sure what fittings you are describing, but these are the ones
the rest of us are talking about:

http://www.sharkbite.com/

wrote in :

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:11 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

You ARE a real man if you can put on a Sharkbite fitting using ONLY
your dick and balls. (No hands allowed). Lets see you do it, and be
sure to video the whole ordeal for Youtube.com. (Sorry. you can not
take viagra to do this, since that would be cheating).


You severely underestimate the versatility of duct tape.

wrote in :

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:11 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

You ARE a real man if you can put on a Sharkbite fitting using ONLY
your dick and balls. (No hands allowed). Lets see you do it, and be
sure to video the whole ordeal for Youtube.com. (Sorry. you can not
take viagra to do this, since that would be cheating).


You severely underestimate the versatility of duct tape.

wrote in :

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:11 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

You ARE a real man if you can put on a Sharkbite fitting using ONLY
your dick and balls. (No hands allowed). Lets see you do it, and be
sure to video the whole ordeal for Youtube.com. (Sorry. you can not
take viagra to do this, since that would be cheating).


You severely underestimate the versatility of duct tape.

wrote in :

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:11 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

You ARE a real man if you can put on a Sharkbite fitting using ONLY
your dick and balls. (No hands allowed). Lets see you do it, and be
sure to video the whole ordeal for Youtube.com. (Sorry. you can not
take viagra to do this, since that would be cheating).


You severely underestimate the versatility of duct tape.

wrote in :

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:11 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority of
experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is I'm to
frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace being a
real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

You ARE a real man if you can put on a Sharkbite fitting using ONLY
your dick and balls. (No hands allowed). Lets see you do it, and be
sure to video the whole ordeal for Youtube.com. (Sorry. you can not
take viagra to do this, since that would be cheating).


You severely underestimate the versatility of duct tape.

Red Green wrote in
:

wrote in
:

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:48:11 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Guess I'll have to give Sharkbites a try some day. Seems the majority
of experiences from this group and external are positive. Problem is
I'm to frikkin cheap to try them. Besides, how can Sharkbites replace
being a real man with a torch and melting metel :-)

You ARE a real man if you can put on a Sharkbite fitting using ONLY
your dick and balls. (No hands allowed). Lets see you do it, and
be sure to video the whole ordeal for Youtube.com. (Sorry. you can
not take viagra to do this, since that would be cheating).


You severely underestimate the versatility of duct tape.

Obviously I'm having send issues here.