"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

I am assuming that this was a "kit" shed, but I have no idea whether it
was the vendor (or the vendor-contracted installer) or the earlier
homeowner who erected it.

Perce

On 11/1/2010 5:35 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

What's the diff?

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

Only shingle job in my experience, the instructions were to NOT remove
the strip. The strip is to keep the shingles from sticking during
storage, I believe.

I am assuming that this was a "kit" shed, but I have no idea whether it
was the vendor (or the vendor-contracted installer) or the earlier
homeowner who erected it.

Perce

On 11/01/10 05:53 pm, wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

What's the diff?

Since they hadn't peeled off the protective film over the adhesive, it
didn't make much difference in this case. But the adhesive on that
starter row ends up closer to the edge of the roof if they are installed
the right way up.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

Only shingle job in my experience, the instructions were to NOT remove
the strip. The strip is to keep the shingles from sticking during
storage, I believe.

Yes, of course, but the shingles are supposed to stick together when
they are in place on the roof, aren't they? Otherwise, why have the
adhesive at all?

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 11/01/10 05:53 pm, wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the
job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of
shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

What's the diff?

Since they hadn't peeled off the protective film over the adhesive, it
didn't make much difference in this case. But the adhesive on that
starter row ends up closer to the edge of the roof if they are installed
the right way up.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

Only shingle job in my experience, the instructions were to NOT remove
the strip. The strip is to keep the shingles from sticking during
storage, I believe.

Yes, of course, but the shingles are supposed to stick together when they
are in place on the roof, aren't they? Otherwise, why have the adhesive
at all?

Perce

Every year, over the past 12 or so yrs, this subject comes up.

The tape is _NOT_ to be peeled. The tape is there to keep the shingles from
sticking together in the bundle/package. The adhesive is engineered to
stick from the opposite side, hence why you have adhesive on the opposing
side. Although, now some manufacturers have adhesive in two (2) different
areas on the same side. All you have to do is _LOOK_ & _READ_ the tape on
new material. It clearly states: "DO NOT REMOVE"

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when we
moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but after
last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three common
ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a special
starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being to use
shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had been
peeled off!

I am assuming that this was a "kit" shed, but I have no idea whether it
was the vendor (or the vendor-contracted installer) or the earlier
homeowner who erected it.

Perce

You may want to RTFM.

I have never seen anything else used for a starter course and those little
strips do not need to be removed.

Colbyt

On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:34:28 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim
The upside down row is known as a "starter strip" and is actually
very common, anf you'd be surprised how many roofs have been installed
without peeling the sticky strips (which is NOT the right way)

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in news:ianbf2$16t$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

I am assuming that this was a "kit" shed, but I have no idea whether it
was the vendor (or the vendor-contracted installer) or the earlier
homeowner who erected it.

Perce

And I bet those shoddy workers even cut the hidden part of the ridge cap
shigles crooked. :-)

On Nov 1, 7:35*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:34:28 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. * *As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim

*The upside down row is known as a "starter strip" and is actually
very common, anf you'd be surprised how many roofs have been installed
without peeling the sticky strips (which is NOT the right way)

Agreed, the upside down shingle starter is very common - as is sketchy
roofing - but it is not the preferred way to do it. Starter strip is
sold in rolls, is cheaper than shingles, makes it unnecessary to worry
about starter/shingle edges lining up, goes up faster and it has the
adhesive at the very edge right above the drip edge, which is where
the wind frequently catches shingles and rips them off. With heavier
architectural shingles the wind is not as much of an issue, and with
self adhesive membrane lining up starter/shingle edges is of lesser
importance, but the other benefits are not as easily dismissed.

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/r.../asphalt_1.htm
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...228-934-v1.pdf

R

In article ,
"K Summers" wrote:

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

And if he stays at it long enough to stop laughing, may even get the
gist of it.

On Nov 2, 2:05*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*"K Summers" wrote:

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

And if he stays at it long enough to stop laughing, may even get the
gist of it.

Beau, is that you?

R

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:23:49 -0500, "DanG" wrote:

Percival, the upside down starter shingles are quite common and
normal.

Common and normal, perhaps-- but incorrect.

Ice shield is fairly new. The tape is there to keep the
shingles from sticking together in the bundle. DO NOT REMOVE the
strips.


I'm with you here.

It does not sound like there is anything inferior about the
shingle job that you had.

20 years on a shed ain't bad-- so though it was 'inferior'- it was
good enough. the install outlasted the product.

Jim

wrote:

On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:34:28 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim
The upside down row is known as a "starter strip" and is actually
very common, anf you'd be surprised how many roofs have been installed
without peeling the sticky strips (which is NOT the right way)

Yes it *is* common. It is also one of my pet peeves. The whole
purpose of a starter strip is to keep the end row of tabs from
flopping in the wind. Old bundles used to explain how to cut some
tabs off and make your own starter strip- with the little blobs of tar
out on the edge where they'd do some good. [new ones might, too-- but
I haven't read one in years]

But so many idiots couldn't figure that out- and contractors wanted a
faster way, so they make bundles now with the tabs already removed.

Putting the shingle upside down leaves the sticky spots where they do
no good at all. The 'starter' strip does nothing but bulk up the
eaves and waste time.

Jim

RicodJour wrote:

http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...228-934-v1.pdf

Smacking myself in the head. I've done/helped on a couple dozen
roofs over the past 40 years. I've always properly cut tabs for
starter shingles on the eaves--- and then *tarred* the gable ends!

It never occurred to me that those same starter shingles would be a
much less messy way to handle the gables.

Jim

On 11/1/2010 6:19 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 11/01/10 05:53 pm, wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the
job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

What's the diff?

Since they hadn't peeled off the protective film over the adhesive, it
didn't make much difference in this case. But the adhesive on that
starter row ends up closer to the edge of the roof if they are installed
the right way up.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

Only shingle job in my experience, the instructions were to NOT remove
the strip. The strip is to keep the shingles from sticking during
storage, I believe.

Yes, of course, but the shingles are supposed to stick together when
they are in place on the roof, aren't they? Otherwise, why have the
adhesive at all?

Perce

The strip keeps the shingles from sticking together while they are in
storage. Some folks reroof in winter, but I would not...need the sun to
melt the stuff so it sticks to other shingles once it is on the roof.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"K Summers" wrote:

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

And if he stays at it long enough to stop laughing, may even get the
gist of it.

Oh look, a Group Policeman working his spell check. camryguy got his wish.

Guess if you can't add any useful information, might as well become a
Netcop.

Great job!

In article ,
"Clyde" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"K Summers" wrote:

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

And if he stays at it long enough to stop laughing, may even get the
gist of it.

Oh look, a Group Policeman working his spell check. camryguy got his wish.

Guess if you can't add any useful information, might as well become a
Netcop.

Great job!

Yeah, I'd say using the word "red" when you mean "blue" counts as
spelling. Some people enjoy dry humor, and actually learning something
while they're at it. If you don't, you're free to g'head and move along.

Let's see Clyde, which useful information did *you* add, again? I missed
it.

On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 20:50:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Nov 1, 7:35Â*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:34:28 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. Â* Â*As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim

Â*The upside down row is known as a "starter strip" and is actually
very common, anf you'd be surprised how many roofs have been installed
without peeling the sticky strips (which is NOT the right way)

Agreed, the upside down shingle starter is very common - as is sketchy
roofing - but it is not the preferred way to do it. Starter strip is
sold in rolls, is cheaper than shingles, makes it unnecessary to worry
about starter/shingle edges lining up, goes up faster and it has the
adhesive at the very edge right above the drip edge, which is where
the wind frequently catches shingles and rips them off. With heavier
architectural shingles the wind is not as much of an issue, and with
self adhesive membrane lining up starter/shingle edges is of lesser
importance, but the other benefits are not as easily dismissed.

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/r.../asphalt_1.htm
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...228-934-v1.pdf

R
Buit 30 years ago starter strip (ice dam) was not common (at least up
here) and for small jobs you would not want to buy a full roll - which
is the only way it is available in many markets.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 07:37:10 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

wrote:

On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:34:28 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim
The upside down row is known as a "starter strip" and is actually
very common, anf you'd be surprised how many roofs have been installed
without peeling the sticky strips (which is NOT the right way)

Yes it *is* common. It is also one of my pet peeves. The whole
purpose of a starter strip is to keep the end row of tabs from
flopping in the wind. Old bundles used to explain how to cut some
tabs off and make your own starter strip- with the little blobs of tar
out on the edge where they'd do some good. [new ones might, too-- but
I haven't read one in years]

But so many idiots couldn't figure that out- and contractors wanted a
faster way, so they make bundles now with the tabs already removed.

Putting the shingle upside down leaves the sticky spots where they do
no good at all. The 'starter' strip does nothing but bulk up the
eaves and waste time.

Jim
The reason for the starter strip is to provide continuous coverage
at the edge of the roof, where the tabs would normally leave gaps, and
to provide a full double layer coverage like on the rest of the roof.

A bit of roofing cement handles tacking the tabs down on the first
row.

On Nov 2, 2:13*pm, wrote:

* The reason for the starter strip is to provide continuous coverage
at the edge of the roof, where the tabs would normally leave gaps, and
to provide a full double layer coverage like on the rest of the roof.
{And for adhering the tabs on the first row.}

Post corrected. You make it sound like you believe that the starter
strip is not for adhering the first course tabs, when all of the
instructions for making your own starter strip, and the starter strip
rolls have adhesive on them. Why is that?

That little dab of roof cement thing - do you put the dabs down while
laying the shingles, or do you lift each tab after the shingles are
installed and insert a dab? Why?

R

On Nov 2, 2:10*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 20:50:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour



wrote:
On Nov 1, 7:35*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:34:28 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. * *As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim

*The upside down row is known as a "starter strip" and is actually
very common, anf you'd be surprised how many roofs have been installed
without peeling the sticky strips (which is NOT the right way)

Agreed, the upside down shingle starter is very common - as is sketchy
roofing - but it is not the preferred way to do it. *Starter strip is
sold in rolls, is cheaper than shingles, makes it unnecessary to worry
about starter/shingle edges lining up, goes up faster and it has the
adhesive at the very edge right above the drip edge, which is where
the wind frequently catches shingles and rips them off. *With heavier
architectural shingles the wind is not as much of an issue, and with
self adhesive membrane lining up starter/shingle edges is of lesser
importance, but the other benefits are not as easily dismissed.

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/r...hingle/install...
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...-Strip-Shingle...

R

But 30 years ago starter strip (ice dam) was not common (at least up
here) and for small jobs you would not want to buy a full roll - which
is the only way it is available in many markets.

Starter strip has been available for more than 20 years, which is what
the OP was asking about, it was available in 3' bundles before rolls
became common, and before that every single bundle of roof shingles
had instructions on how to make and install starter strip out of 3-tab
shingles.

Starter strip serves several purposes, all of them relatively
important, but the OP has little reason to complain or question the
installation of his shed's starter course at this point. He had to
rip off the roof to discover the 'problem'.

R

On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:25:17 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Nov 2, 2:13Â*pm, wrote:

Â* The reason for the starter strip is to provide continuous coverage
at the edge of the roof, where the tabs would normally leave gaps, and
to provide a full double layer coverage like on the rest of the roof.
{And for adhering the tabs on the first row.}

Post corrected. You make it sound like you believe that the starter
strip is not for adhering the first course tabs, when all of the
instructions for making your own starter strip, and the starter strip
rolls have adhesive on them. Why is that?

That little dab of roof cement thing - do you put the dabs down while
laying the shingles, or do you lift each tab after the shingles are
installed and insert a dab? Why?

R
On a shed roof, if the bottom row tabs are not stuck down it is a
simple matter to just stick a caulking gun or a stick up under each
edge tab and stick them down. We are talking what/ 8 feet per side?
That's how I did mine. No starter strip in the shingle bundles - and
ice guard only came in 100 foot rolls. I only needed 30 feet, so I
flipped the first row of shingles and nailed them over the 15 lb
roofing felt, then shingled the roof. The south east side sealed
perfectly, the north west side (prevailing wind too) I stuck down with
bulldog cement - about a dime sized daub under each tab.

15 year shingles - about 13 years ago, so might need to redo it in a
couple years. The installation will outlast the product, for sure.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:31:22 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Nov 2, 2:10Â*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 20:50:44 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour



wrote:
On Nov 1, 7:35Â*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:34:28 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,
-snip-

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down,

-snip-

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

If you lived in a windy area you would have found that out in less
than 20 yrs. Â* Â*As it is- the shingling might not have been up to
code-- but it was good enough to outlast the shingles, eh?.

Jim

Â*The upside down row is known as a "starter strip" and is actually
very common, anf you'd be surprised how many roofs have been installed
without peeling the sticky strips (which is NOT the right way)

Agreed, the upside down shingle starter is very common - as is sketchy
roofing - but it is not the preferred way to do it. Â*Starter strip is
sold in rolls, is cheaper than shingles, makes it unnecessary to worry
about starter/shingle edges lining up, goes up faster and it has the
adhesive at the very edge right above the drip edge, which is where
the wind frequently catches shingles and rips them off. Â*With heavier
architectural shingles the wind is not as much of an issue, and with
self adhesive membrane lining up starter/shingle edges is of lesser
importance, but the other benefits are not as easily dismissed.

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/r...hingle/install...
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...-Strip-Shingle...

R

But 30 years ago starter strip (ice dam) was not common (at least up
here) and for small jobs you would not want to buy a full roll - which
is the only way it is available in many markets.

Starter strip has been available for more than 20 years, which is what
the OP was asking about, it was available in 3' bundles before rolls
became common, and before that every single bundle of roof shingles
had instructions on how to make and install starter strip out of 3-tab
shingles.

Starter strip serves several purposes, all of them relatively
important, but the OP has little reason to complain or question the
installation of his shed's starter course at this point. He had to
rip off the roof to discover the 'problem'.

R
My point exactly. The job was definitely done to the "good enuff"
standard.

On 11/01/10 06:56 pm, K Summers wrote:

AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the
job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of
shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

What's the diff?

Since they hadn't peeled off the protective film over the adhesive, it
didn't make much difference in this case. But the adhesive on that
starter row ends up closer to the edge of the roof if they are installed
the right way up.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

Only shingle job in my experience, the instructions were to NOT remove
the strip. The strip is to keep the shingles from sticking during
storage, I believe.

Yes, of course, but the shingles are supposed to stick together when they
are in place on the roof, aren't they? Otherwise, why have the adhesive
at all?

Every year, over the past 12 or so yrs, this subject comes up.

The tape is _NOT_ to be peeled. The tape is there to keep the shingles from
sticking together in the bundle/package. The adhesive is engineered to
stick from the opposite side, hence why you have adhesive on the opposing
side. Although, now some manufacturers have adhesive in two (2) different
areas on the same side. All you have to do is _LOOK_& _READ_ the tape on
new material. It clearly states: "DO NOT REMOVE"

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

I didn't notice any jesting, but I do now see that I was mistaken in
thinking that the protective film should have been removed.

However, there is no "Do Not Remove" marking on that protective film on
the new shingles -- but the on-line FAQ says that it is not necessary to
remove it.

Perce

On Nov 2, 6:56*pm, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 11/01/10 06:56 pm, K Summers wrote:





AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was here when
we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet, but
after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to tackle the
job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of
shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.
What's the diff?
Since they hadn't peeled off the protective film over the adhesive, it
didn't make much difference in this case. But the adhesive on that
starter row ends up closer to the edge of the roof if they are installed
the right way up.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!
Only shingle job in my experience, the instructions were to NOT remove
the strip. The strip is to keep the shingles from sticking during
storage, I believe.

Yes, of course, but the shingles are supposed to stick together when they
are in place on the roof, aren't they? Otherwise, why have the adhesive
at all?
Every year, over the past 12 or so yrs, this subject comes up.

The tape is _NOT_ to be peeled. The tape is there to keep the shingles from
sticking together in the bundle/package. The adhesive is engineered to
stick from the opposite side, hence why you have adhesive on the opposing
side. Although, now some manufacturers have adhesive in two (2) different
areas on the same side. All you have to do is _LOOK_& *_READ_ the tape on
new material. It clearly states: "DO NOT REMOVE"

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

I didn't notice any jesting, but I do now see that I was mistaken in
thinking that the protective film should have been removed.

However, there is no "Do Not Remove" marking on that protective film on
the new shingles -- but the on-line FAQ says that it is not necessary to
remove it.

Perce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I'll bet the instructions on the bundle say it.

Harry K

On Oct 25, 11:23*pm, "DanG" wrote:
Percival, *the upside down starter shingles are quite common and
normal. *Ice shield is fairly new. *The tape is there to keep the
shingles from sticking together in the bundle. *DO NOT REMOVE the
strips.

It does not sound like there is anything inferior about the
shingle job that you had.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in ...



AFAIK, our shed has been in place for 20 years or so: it was
here when we moved in 7 years ago, and I think it predated the
previous owners,

I had bought new shingles already but hadn't installed them yet,
but after last week's Midwest storms it was obviously time to
tackle the job.

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of
shingles turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst
of the three common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions),
best being to use a special starter strip (which I had already
bought) and next best being to use shingles the right way up but
with the tabs cut off.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the
adhesive had been peeled off!

I am assuming that this was a "kit" shed, but I have no idea
whether it was the vendor (or the vendor-contracted installer)
or the earlier homeowner who erected it.

Perce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Been awhile since I shingled (15 years?) but I think the instructions
printed plainly on hte bundles say to do it that way or use starter
strip.

I should buy a bundle just tohave those instructions for this
discussion that pops up _every_ year.

They should print in BIG, BLACK, BOLD LETTERS " Read the frikken
instructions" on each bundle.

Harry K

On Nov 2, 9:33*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:25:17 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour



wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:13*pm, wrote:

* The reason for the starter strip is to provide continuous coverage
at the edge of the roof, where the tabs would normally leave gaps, and
to provide a full double layer coverage like on the rest of the roof.
{And for adhering the tabs on the first row.}

Post corrected. *You make it sound like you believe that the starter
strip is not for adhering the first course tabs, when all of the
instructions for making your own starter strip, and the starter strip
rolls have adhesive on them. *Why is that?

That little dab of roof cement thing - do you put the dabs down while
laying the shingles, or do you lift each tab after the shingles are
installed and insert a dab? *Why?

On a shed roof, if the bottom row tabs are not stuck down it is a
simple matter to just stick a caulking gun or a stick up under each
edge tab and stick them down. We are talking what/ 8 feet per side?
*That's how I did mine. No starter strip in the shingle bundles - and
ice guard only came in 100 foot rolls. I only needed 30 feet, so I
flipped the first row of shingles and nailed them over the 15 lb
roofing felt, then shingled the roof.

The self-adhesive starter strip rolls are 33'.
http://roofing.owenscorning.com/home...s/rollroofing/

Two questions. Do you use the same upside down shingle method on
larger roofing jobs, and why do you not follow the manufacturers'
instructions on cutting off the tabs, particularly if you're just
going to have to add adhesive?

R

On 11/02/10 11:46 pm, Harry K wrote:

Lay out a couple of shingles, you'll get the jest of it.

I didn't notice any jesting, but I do now see that I was mistaken in
thinking that the protective film should have been removed.

However, there is no "Do Not Remove" marking on that protective film on
the new shingles -- but the on-line FAQ says that it is not necessary to
remove it.

And I'll bet the instructions on the bundle say it.

No. That's why I looked at the Web site. And even there it's not in the
installation instructions: only in an FAQ.

Perce

On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 21:27:08 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Nov 2, 9:33Â*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:25:17 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour



wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:13Â*pm, wrote:

Â* The reason for the starter strip is to provide continuous coverage
at the edge of the roof, where the tabs would normally leave gaps, and
to provide a full double layer coverage like on the rest of the roof.
{And for adhering the tabs on the first row.}

Post corrected. Â*You make it sound like you believe that the starter
strip is not for adhering the first course tabs, when all of the
instructions for making your own starter strip, and the starter strip
rolls have adhesive on them. Â*Why is that?

That little dab of roof cement thing - do you put the dabs down while
laying the shingles, or do you lift each tab after the shingles are
installed and insert a dab? Â*Why?

On a shed roof, if the bottom row tabs are not stuck down it is a
simple matter to just stick a caulking gun or a stick up under each
edge tab and stick them down. We are talking what/ 8 feet per side?
Â*That's how I did mine. No starter strip in the shingle bundles - and
ice guard only came in 100 foot rolls. I only needed 30 feet, so I
flipped the first row of shingles and nailed them over the 15 lb
roofing felt, then shingled the roof.

The self-adhesive starter strip rolls are 33'.
http://roofing.owenscorning.com/home...s/rollroofing/

Two questions. Do you use the same upside down shingle method on
larger roofing jobs, and why do you not follow the manufacturers'
instructions on cutting off the tabs, particularly if you're just
going to have to add adhesive?

R
Why waste the time and effort cutting off the tabs, when they do no
harm left on? On a house, you "might" see a ridge about 6-12 inches up
where the thicker under-section stops. On a shed?????

On my house it has 15 lb felt over the whole roof, ice guard up the
ends of all the gables, and 2 runs of ice guard on all the eaves,
covered with 25 year fiberglass shingles, as well as galvanized drip
edge, all the way around, under the ice guard.

On Nov 1, 4:35*pm, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

The first thing I found was that they had started with a row of shingles
turned upside down, which I had just read is the worst of the three
common ways (and illegal in some jurisdictions), best being to use a
special starter strip (which I had already bought) and next best being
to use shingles the right way up but with the tabs cut off.

Next I found that none of the protective strips over the adhesive had
been peeled off!

I am assuming that this was a "kit" shed, but I have no idea whether it
was the vendor (or the vendor-contracted installer) or the earlier
homeowner who erected it.

Perce

I just roofed our new shed with the same "architectural" shingles used
on our new home (TAMKO Heritage):

1) The instructions recommended cutting the tabs off and turning the
shingle around for the starter strip, just like shingle makers have
recommended for decades. They also recommended using their starter
strips as an option.

2) The shingles and shingle installation instructions specifically say
"do not remove the plastic strip". This is good because I tried to
remove one and it is practically impossible. I am told the plastic on
newer (how old is newer? Dunno!) shingles is degradable. It is there
to keep shingles from sticking during transport and then degrades
during early life to provide adhesion. Years ago the strips were more
like tape, with a loose end, which made them easy to remove.

Maybe your roof wasn't as bad as you thought. If it is still there
after 20 years and doing its job it might have been OK.

RonB

wrote:

-snip-
R
Why waste the time and effort cutting off the tabs, when they do no
harm left on? On a house, you "might" see a ridge about 6-12 inches up
where the thicker under-section stops. On a shed?????

Cause if you put the shingles on right- so the tar holds the next row
of shingles down- the tabs will be out flopping in the breeze.

Jim