I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:35:24 -0400, Tom wrote:

I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Last time I looked a few years ago, kerosene was selling at HD for
$35.00 for a 5 gallon can.

On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if
there are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon
monoxide or oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off
smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp
drop to 50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into
home system and gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank
of oil probably lasts several years.

On 10/27/2010 3:50 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if there
are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon monoxide or
oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp drop to
50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into home system and
gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank of oil probably lasts
several years.

thanks for both replies. I was afraid that kerosene prices would be a problem,
except I wondered if greater efficiency (no heat goes up the chimney) could be
a saving factor. Looks like it's me and my own electric blanket again this year.

So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight? I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.

Tom wrote:

I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

Kero will go up with oil.

Your furnace is likely thermostatically controlled & you can set that
as low as you like. It will shut off rather than continuing to
throw off useless heat like a kero heater.

They are a safety hazard and some insurance companies don't want you
to use them.

Your house will smell like Kero and be covered in a black film by
spring.

They are a major PITA- you need to keep running out and buying kero.
There are 2 places that sell kero in my area. One is 6 miles west,
the other is 5 miles east. It never fails, that whenever I need
kero for my salamander heater, the first one I go to is out of Kero--
so then I go to the other & 1/2 the time it will have some. The
other 1/2 of the time I've just wasted a gallon of gas and still can't
run the damn heater.


I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Your best bet to save fuel is to insulate your house, seal up your
windows, install storm doors, and turn your thermostat down. Safer,
cleaner, easier, and more bag for your buck.

Jim

On Oct 27, 3:50*pm, Frank wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:

I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. *Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if
there are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon
monoxide or oxygen level dips. *I also suspect you will generate an off
smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp
drop to 50 at night. *Also have a supplemental wood burner built into
home system and gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. *Tank
of oil probably lasts several years.

Down comforters work almost as well as an electric blanket and are
much cheaper to operate.

That, and snuggling.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:35:24 -0400, Tom wrote:

I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

The only way you'll save money with a kerosene heater is if you
position the heater directly in front of your furnaces thermostat.

You can use an electric heater and save money the same way.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:31:19 -0400, Tom wrote:

On 10/27/2010 3:50 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if there
are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon monoxide or
oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp drop to
50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into home system and
gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank of oil probably lasts
several years.

thanks for both replies. I was afraid that kerosene prices would be a problem,
except I wondered if greater efficiency (no heat goes up the chimney) could be
a saving factor. Looks like it's me and my own electric blanket again this year.

So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight? I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.


I've got a couple kero heaters for working in my unheated garage when
I have to. Would use them in the house only in an emergency.
Like a broken furnace when it's below zero, to keep pipes from
freezing.
K1 is pretty expensive, so it's not cost efficient for home heating,
besides the smell, soot, etc.
If you buy K1 be careful. Wide variances in price.
Think I paid about 15 bucks for 5-gallon jugs at Menards.
Other sources wanted 30-40 for the same.

You always save fuel costs by having the heat down.
There's no significant "stress" on your boiler by running it for long
lengths of time, unless you have a bad component that can overheat.

A good thing to remember about heating is that the bigger the
differential in heat from where it's warm to where it's cold, the
faster you'll lose heat. Non-linear I think the smart guys say.
Seems obvious, but my wife still doesn't get it (-:

--Vic

On Oct 27, 3:31 pm, Tom wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:50 PM, Frank wrote:



On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if there
are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon monoxide or
oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp drop to
50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into home system and
gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank of oil probably lasts
several years.

thanks for both replies. I was afraid that kerosene prices would be a problem,
except I wondered if greater efficiency (no heat goes up the chimney) could be
a saving factor. Looks like it's me and my own electric blanket again this year.

So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight? I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.

Andy comments:

It may not use a chimney, but the CO and CO2 combustion products
have to go somewhere since they are poisonous. That means, to be
safe, you have to have good circulation thru your house and a path
for the gases to get to the outside.

A portable kerosene heater is great for places that don't have any
other sourct of heat, but the price of fuel isn't competitive with
other methods if you have access to gas or electricity.

Andy in Eureka, Texas

On 10/27/2010 4:31 PM, Tom wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:50 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if there
are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon monoxide or
oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp drop to
50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into home system and
gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank of oil probably lasts
several years.

thanks for both replies. I was afraid that kerosene prices would be a problem,
except I wondered if greater efficiency (no heat goes up the chimney) could be
a saving factor. Looks like it's me and my own electric blanket again this year.

So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight? I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.


New oil burners max out at about 85% efficiency. Gas is somewhat
better. Cost of heat depends on where you live.

Programmed thermostat might be good for you. There should be data
available on percent energy saving for every degree drop in temperature.
You will save money.

Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Wick heaters carbon up, clog and become less efficient as the wick ages.
Monitor kerosene heaters ARE popular and burn clean and are vented.
Propane is much better for space heating; no wicks to mess with.
I'd still go with vented propane though. If you house is air tight, you
could die from carbon monoxide posioning with ventless.

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

On 2010-10-27, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore?

For the simple reason that kerosene has become absurdly impractical,
economically.

I used to have a kerosene space heater. Worked great. Many friends
up in the hills had Alladin kerosene lamps. This was when grade B
kerosene was only $1.80 gal. Grade A, only a bit more.

Last time I saw kerosene, it was on sale at the local feed and grain
store. It was $8.00 gal!! Who the hell can afford that? A little
later, I tried selling a near new 24,000 btu kerosene htr. It cost
about $150 new. I couldn't sell it for $30. Ended up tossing it. No
place I currently know sells kerosene htrs. Why bother?

nb

On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Ever use one? I remember when folks used to say "this is great, you
can't even smell it (after it burned your sense of smell out) or tell I
am using it (and you could write your name on a window and had teary
eyes for two hours after you left their house).

On 10/27/2010 12:35 PM Tom spake thus:

I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Since I've used kerosene heaters on and off for the last 20 years or so,
I'll give you the benefit of my experience.

They're good for *temporary* space heating, but with some gotchas:

o Since they emit bad stuff (CO & CO2), only use them in well-ventilated
spaces. I wouldn't use it in a small, well-sealed room with all doors
and windows closed.

o I would never use one unattended, either when you're not home or while
you're sleeping. I only fire mine up when I'm awake and up and about.

o As others have said, kerosene isn't cheap. But the good news is that
the small heaters I have use fuel pretty conservatively. I still have
most of a 5-gallon can left over from last winter.

o Don't expect them to heat a large room. They're good for sort of
"spot" use, like when you're sitting while reading, etc. They can take
the chill off a larger room, but not bring it up to room temperature.

o You need to learn to adjust them properly. The only time they smoke,
if they're adjusted right, is right after being lit before they get hot
enough to turn the catalytic burner red-hot. After they're hot you need
to adjust the burner so the flame doesn't go much above the screen on
top. Otherwise you'll get smoke coming out.

If properly adjusted there's surprisingly little odor once they're
red-hot. They're pretty efficient at fully combusting the fuel.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

Kerosene heaters are 100% efficient (no heat goes up the chimney). In
my experience, they need annual service, new wick and so on. Might be
easier to keep using your oil boiler.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom" wrote in message
...
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly
nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities
speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low
all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete
floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the
main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

"Tom" wrote in message ...
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly
nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities
speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor
and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Price kerosene in as many places as you can, and you will have your answer.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Tom" wrote in message ...
On 10/27/2010 3:50 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly
nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities
speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete
floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as
oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if
there
are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon
monoxide or
oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off smell from
kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp
drop to
50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into home system
and
gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank of oil probably
lasts
several years.

thanks for both replies. I was afraid that kerosene prices would be a
problem,
except I wondered if greater efficiency (no heat goes up the chimney)
could be
a saving factor. Looks like it's me and my own electric blanket again this
year.

So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight?
I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp
drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to
raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long
continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on
for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.

Since I almost died from a unvented heater in a camp tent I am very cautious
about CO emissions and would never use a unvented heater again. ww

On 10/27/2010 4:31 PM, Tom wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:50 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:
I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if there
are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon monoxide or
oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp drop to
50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into home system and
gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank of oil probably lasts
several years.

thanks for both replies. I was afraid that kerosene prices would be a problem,
except I wondered if greater efficiency (no heat goes up the chimney) could be
a saving factor. Looks like it's me and my own electric blanket again this year.


The heart of this is that you want to save and yet be warm.

Insulation, Insulation, Insulation.

Is there any in the walls? Is there any under the floor? How well
sealed is your house?

Most houses that are older than 20 years or so are woefully
inadequate. Just having insulation in the attic is not enough, far from it.

I noticed a huge difference after I blew cellulose in the walls, and
again after adding underfloor insulation. My friends who didn't, all
have high heat and cooling bills, and are not as comfortable.

My neighbor across the street with a similarly constructed house,
heats with a kero and added no insulation. My bills are a third of his
and my house is warm as opposed to his which is downright chilly. Well
it isn't always chilly, in the summer it is a sweat farm. Two different
strategies.

Another note. Even though no heat goes up the chimney with a kero
heater, it consumes air. That air must be drawn into the house from the
cold outside air. It really is beter if not only for the combustion
products are vented outdoors but if the heater gets it's air not from
your living space which must by necessity be drawn from outdoors.

Jeff



So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight? I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 10/27/2010 12:35 PM Tom spake thus:

I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly
nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities
speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete
floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Since I've used kerosene heaters on and off for the last 20 years or so,
I'll give you the benefit of my experience.

They're good for *temporary* space heating, but with some gotchas:

o Since they emit bad stuff (CO & CO2), only use them in well-ventilated
spaces. I wouldn't use it in a small, well-sealed room with all doors
and windows closed.

o I would never use one unattended, either when you're not home or while
you're sleeping. I only fire mine up when I'm awake and up and about.

o As others have said, kerosene isn't cheap. But the good news is that
the small heaters I have use fuel pretty conservatively. I still have
most of a 5-gallon can left over from last winter.

o Don't expect them to heat a large room. They're good for sort of
"spot" use, like when you're sitting while reading, etc. They can take
the chill off a larger room, but not bring it up to room temperature.

o You need to learn to adjust them properly. The only time they smoke,
if they're adjusted right, is right after being lit before they get hot
enough to turn the catalytic burner red-hot. After they're hot you need
to adjust the burner so the flame doesn't go much above the screen on
top. Otherwise you'll get smoke coming out.

If properly adjusted there's surprisingly little odor once they're
red-hot. They're pretty efficient at fully combusting the fuel.


Trouble is they stink when you light them and stink when you shut them off.

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight? I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.

Tom,

You only save fuel when your furnace is actually running at the lower
setback temperature. You lose less heat when the temperature
difference between the outdoors and indoors is less, so you don't have
to use as much fuel to replace the lost BTU's.

However, if your house never reaches the setback temperature and runs
the furnace, there is no savings. In my case I keep the house at 68F
when it is occupied and we're awake. If I set the temperature to 50F
during the night, and the house never reaches that temperature, it
takes the same amount of fuel to return to 68F in the morning as it
does to maintain it at 68F all night. So if your setback is too deep,
you won't save anything. When it does hit 50F and the furnace starts
running again, that's when you start saving. Took me a long time to
understand that and I live in Minnesota.

In your case you are the poster child for low cost heating. Keeping it
at 55F most of the time saves you a ton of money. Dropping it to 50F
only makes sense when it actually reaches that temperature in your
house and the furnace runs. For maximum savings and comfort you would
adjust the setback according to the outside temperature. Even if you
don't save anything during the night, it won't cost you any more to
bring the temperature back to 55F. The long run on the boiler is
probably better for it and more efficient than frequent on and off
cycles.

The only problem with your heating scheme is that it makes it
difficult to cost-justify any improvements because your heating bill
is so low. However, adding insulation and plugging leaks may give you
a payback if you can do it cheaply enough. I admire your pioneer
spirit, my wife would leave me if I tried to keep the house at 55F and
then I'd lose my "night heater".

Keep up the good work. I agree with most of the others about not using
kerosene.

dss

Be grateful that he wasn't selling you "horse hung, add three inches".
You'd have had to get someone three towns away to hold your urethra so
you could hang a leak.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:31:46 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

Your best bet to save fuel is to insulate your house, seal up your
windows, install storm doors, and turn your thermostat down. Safer,
cleaner, easier, and more bag for your buck.

I get a laugh out of people like you. As if we dont all know this
stuff by now.

How about this. Everytime I'm told to insulate and save energy I do
it.

In the past 10 years I added so much insulation that I only have about
25 square feet left to live in. This house was originally 1800 square
feet. I added storm windows and more and more windows. I can no
longer see the windows. I added weather stripping to the doors, I
cant find the doors anymore. I turned off all lights and used smaller
and smaller bulbs, and I can no longer see my dinner when I eat. I
turned down my thermostat, from 70 to 60, then 50, then 40, 30, 20,
and it would not go any lower, so I just shut off the furnace. Three
days later I died from freezing. It took the coroner's office 5 days
to cut thru all the insulation to get my body out of the house.

On 10/28/2010 2:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:31:46 -0400, Jim
wrote:

Your best bet to save fuel is to insulate your house, seal up your
windows, install storm doors, and turn your thermostat down. Safer,
cleaner, easier, and more bag for your buck.

I get a laugh out of people like you. As if we dont all know this
stuff by now.

How about this. Everytime I'm told to insulate and save energy I do
it.

In the past 10 years I added so much insulation that I only have about
25 square feet left to live in. This house was originally 1800 square
feet. I added storm windows and more and more windows. I can no
longer see the windows. I added weather stripping to the doors, I
cant find the doors anymore.


Oh ha ha.

There is no need to over insulate, but most old houses have major holes
in the thermal envelope. Often it is no insulation in the walls. Adding
storm windows or added insulation in the attic will have little impact
if you have a big heat leak elsewhere. Most people think only attic and
windows, so it is important that the point is made that they may very
well be pouring money down the drain by missing insulation where it
really is needed.

I'm not in the trade, but I've seen enough old houses to know that
any wall insulation was rare before the 60's and decent insulation
wasn't common until 20 years later.

I can tell you for an absolute fact that if you have nothing in the
walls your house depends on having cheap energy, and those days are long
gone.

Jeff



I turned off all lights and used smaller
and smaller bulbs, and I can no longer see my dinner when I eat. I
turned down my thermostat, from 70 to 60, then 50, then 40, 30, 20,
and it would not go any lower, so I just shut off the furnace. Three
days later I died from freezing. It took the coroner's office 5 days
to cut thru all the insulation to get my body out of the house.

On 10/28/2010 5:13 AM LSMFT spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

If properly adjusted there's surprisingly little odor once they're
red-hot. They're pretty efficient at fully combusting the fuel.

Trouble is they stink when you light them and stink when you shut
them off.

True; yet another reason you don't want to use them in a well-sealed space.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:31:19 -0400, Tom wrote:


On 10/27/2010 3:50 PM, Frank wrote:

On 10/27/2010 3:35 PM, Tom wrote:

I'm interested in max cost savings for heating. Why is it that hardly nobody
seems to be using kerosene heaters anymore? Is it just because of
inconvenience? Would I save a lot, especially if the commodities speculators
go crazy again soon and drive up the cost of my heating oil?

I have a fairly small house, live alone and keep the thermostat low all
winter. Could I just put a kerosene heater on the cellar's concrete floor and
let the heat rise upstairs? The kerosene would be auxiliary to the main
oil-fired steam boiler.

Thanks.

Not sure you would save any money. Suspect kerosene costs as much as oil.

Personally I don't want to breathe unvented combustion products even if there
are safeguards in place to shut the heater down if it emits carbon monoxide or
oxygen level dips. I also suspect you will generate an off smell from kerosene.

My rich/el cheapo neighbors use an electric blanket and let house temp drop to
50 at night. Also have a supplemental wood burner built into home system and
gets all the wood he needs from his three acres. Tank of oil probably lasts
several years.

thanks for both replies. I was afraid that kerosene prices would be a problem,
except I wondered if greater efficiency (no heat goes up the chimney) could be
a saving factor. Looks like it's me and my own electric blanket again this year.

So a followup: does it really save much fuel to drop the temp overnight? I'll
likely have the thermostat set to 55 all day anyway. If I let the temp drop to
50 overnight, then it can take a long, long time (45 minutes?) just to raise
it from 50 to 55 in the morning. I also had kinda figured that long continuous
stress on the old boiler might be a bad thing, rather than have it come on for
maybe 10 minutes at a time if I keep the thermostat steady.



I've got a couple kero heaters for working in my unheated garage when
I have to. Would use them in the house only in an emergency.
Like a broken furnace when it's below zero, to keep pipes from
freezing.
K1 is pretty expensive, so it's not cost efficient for home heating,
besides the smell, soot, etc.
If you buy K1 be careful. Wide variances in price.
Think I paid about 15 bucks for 5-gallon jugs at Menards.
Other sources wanted 30-40 for the same.

You always save fuel costs by having the heat down.
There's no significant "stress" on your boiler by running it for long
lengths of time, unless you have a bad component that can overheat.

I'd expect you'd stress the unit more by cycling it on and off,
particularly the ignition components.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.


A good thing to remember about heating is that the bigger the
differential in heat from where it's warm to where it's cold, the
faster you'll lose heat. Non-linear I think the smart guys say.
Seems obvious, but my wife still doesn't get it (-:

--Vic

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 16:34:41 -0400, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:31:19 -0400, Tom wrote:


You always save fuel costs by having the heat down.
There's no significant "stress" on your boiler by running it for long
lengths of time, unless you have a bad component that can overheat.

I'd expect you'd stress the unit more by cycling it on and off,
particularly the ignition components.


That's my view. I like a wide lag in the t-stat, maybe 4 degrees.
The last couple I put in only adjusted to 2-3 degrees lag.
Which is okay, because the wife likes 1 degree, which is the default.
Somehow the furnace cycling is more tolerable to me than her
complaining.
Besides that, what happens with a wider lag is she'll ultimately jack
up the temp to a higher average.
Some kind of skinny person "conditioning" reflex.
With a 1 degree lag she'll settle in at 71.
Funny how what you think is a disadvantage works out in the end.
There's something to the 1 degree default I guess.

--Vic

On Oct 27, 2:50*pm, Oren wrote:

Last time I looked a few years ago, kerosene was selling at HD for
$35.00 for a 5 gallon can.

Like their hardwood, HD's price on Kerosene is obscene. Ditto a lot
of hardware stores. I heated my garage shop with kerosene until this
past year when I changed to a radiant natural gas heater. I could buy
kerosene from a few local co-ops or oil companies for slightly more
than diesel fuel.

While the heater did a good job in the garage, I would not use one in
the house. My shop had garage doors that allowed some air exchange.
Even at that it did begin to smell when the fuel ran low; and during
the startup and shut down process. Besides that, it is an un-vented
device and running it full time could be dangerous.

RonB

On 10/29/2010 8:13 PM RonB spake thus:

On Oct 27, 2:50 pm, Oren wrote:

Last time I looked a few years ago, kerosene was selling at HD for
$35.00 for a 5 gallon can.

Like their hardwood, HD's price on Kerosene is obscene. Ditto a lot
of hardware stores. I heated my garage shop with kerosene until this
past year when I changed to a radiant natural gas heater. I could buy
kerosene from a few local co-ops or oil companies for slightly more
than diesel fuel.

I used to get my kerosene at a Rotten Robbie station in Hayward (San
Francisco Bay Area East Bay), from a self-serve pump relatively cheap.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On 10/28/2010 9:13 AM, dss wrote:
I admire your pioneer
spirit, my wife would leave me if I tried to keep the house at 55F and
then I'd lose my "night heater".

Keep up the good work.
dss

Thanks for saying that, dss -- plus thanks for the valuable practical advice
from you and others.

I've thought of the word "pioneer" many times through the years, especially
these last two. Heck, I don't even throw the chicken out just because it's
been in the refrigerator for 5 days. Sometimes, when walking with a girl on a
trail in winter, I lay in the snow for a half-minute or so with no shirt on --
just because.

For now, I let it get as low as it goes without the boiler running -- 48 or so
in the mornings. In winter, I'll set things to 55F, except on really frigid
nights when the heat loss to the outside is at a greater rate... I can stand a
little lower. It's all about 50% warm clothing, 50% use of an electric pad at
times, and the other 90% is mental (to paraphrase a philosopher).

Greetings to Minnesota.