I'm considering gassing the cars & off-road vehicles from a fuel drum at
home in a remote area dozens of miles from the nearest gas station.

While I'm in the planning stage, it would be helpful to hear ideas on
what works and what doesn't work from those who already store & dispense
gasoline at home from a storage drum.

The zoning department told me there are no specific regulations up to 55
gallons and the HazMat department told me 15, 20, 30, & 55 gallon barrels
must be UN Certified steel (that's United Nations); they must be
grounded; and they must have a "containment system" to keep spills from
penetrating the ground.

There are no other requirements although they suggest keeping the drums
at least 10 feet from a structure.

Calling Granger's Industrial Supply (800-323-0620), they suggested the
following components (about $700).

- $150 (1MLA7) 55-gallon UN-Certified Carbon-Steel Phenolic-coated Drum
(with 2" & 3/4" bunge), http://tinyurl.com/36a6tfk

- $350 (1P894) Fuel Transfer Pump, Flow 15 GPM, Power Rating 1/4 HP,
Motor 12 VDC, 12 Feet Lift, With 15 Feet Cable and Tube, Not Metered,
http://tinyurl.com/39bvcj4 ... or $160 (1P893) Rotary Transfer Pump,
http://tinyurl.com/2ubsfzh

- $35 (4A442) 3' Ground Strap, http://tinyurl.com/3yszste

- $165 (4RP91) Liquid Flowmeter, http://tinyurl.com/378rugu

- $125 (2P695) Fuel Filter, http://tinyurl.com/3a6vyoe

My main questions:
a) Do you use such a system? If so, what do you recommend?

b) Do you suggest the hand pump ($160) or the electric pump (350)?

c) How do most of you FILL the drum (is there a fuel-delivery service)?

d) What do you use for a fuel level gauge?

e) Is the fuel filter really needed?

On Oct 22, 5:59*pm, Harold Lathom wrote:
I'm considering gassing the cars & off-road vehicles from a fuel drum at
home in a remote area dozens of miles from the nearest gas station.

While I'm in the planning stage, it would be helpful to hear ideas on
what works and what doesn't work from those who already store & dispense
gasoline at home from a storage drum.

The zoning department told me there are no specific regulations up to 55
gallons and the HazMat department told me 15, 20, 30, & 55 gallon barrels
must be UN Certified steel (that's United Nations); they must be
grounded; and they must have a "containment system" to keep spills from
penetrating the ground.

There are no other requirements although they suggest keeping the drums
at least 10 feet from a structure.

Calling Granger's Industrial Supply (800-323-0620), they suggested the
following components (about $700).

- $150 (1MLA7) 55-gallon UN-Certified Carbon-Steel Phenolic-coated Drum
(with 2" & 3/4" bunge),http://tinyurl.com/36a6tfk

- $350 (1P894) Fuel Transfer Pump, Flow 15 GPM, Power Rating 1/4 HP,
Motor 12 VDC, 12 Feet Lift, With 15 Feet Cable and Tube, Not Metered,http://tinyurl.com/39bvcj4... or $160 (1P893) Rotary Transfer Pump,http://tinyurl.com/2ubsfzh

- $35 (4A442) 3' Ground Strap,http://tinyurl.com/3yszste

- $165 (4RP91) Liquid Flowmeter,http://tinyurl.com/378rugu

- $125 (2P695) Fuel Filter,http://tinyurl.com/3a6vyoe

My main questions:
a) Do you use such a system? If so, what do you recommend?

b) Do you suggest the hand pump ($160) or the electric pump (350)?

c) How do most of you FILL the drum (is there a fuel-delivery service)?

d) What do you use for a fuel level gauge?

e) Is the fuel filter really needed?

I haven't done gas, but keep Diesel for my compact tractor in a 55
gal. drum. I find I only need to fuel it 2-3 times per year, and the
hand pump was still annoying.
I got a transfer pump with nozzle 4 free from my oldest son, and am
using it now. It is a lot harder to keep from spilling with your
attention on pumping. Diesel has a tendency to foam, you shouldn't
have to bother with that. There is also the filling of the drum, I do
that by taking it to the ag store in the bed of the pickup, then
moving it into the shop with a fork lift. A full drum is pretty heavy,
around 350 pounds..

On Oct 22, 5:59*pm, Harold Lathom wrote:
I'm considering gassing the cars & off-road vehicles from a fuel drum at
home in a remote area dozens of miles from the nearest gas station.

While I'm in the planning stage, it would be helpful to hear ideas on
what works and what doesn't work from those who already store & dispense
gasoline at home from a storage drum.

The zoning department told me there are no specific regulations up to 55
gallons and the HazMat department told me 15, 20, 30, & 55 gallon barrels
must be UN Certified steel (that's United Nations); they must be
grounded; and they must have a "containment system" to keep spills from
penetrating the ground.

There are no other requirements although they suggest keeping the drums
at least 10 feet from a structure.

Calling Granger's Industrial Supply (800-323-0620), they suggested the
following components (about $700).

- $150 (1MLA7) 55-gallon UN-Certified Carbon-Steel Phenolic-coated Drum
(with 2" & 3/4" bunge),http://tinyurl.com/36a6tfk

- $350 (1P894) Fuel Transfer Pump, Flow 15 GPM, Power Rating 1/4 HP,
Motor 12 VDC, 12 Feet Lift, With 15 Feet Cable and Tube, Not Metered,http://tinyurl.com/39bvcj4... or $160 (1P893) Rotary Transfer Pump,http://tinyurl.com/2ubsfzh

- $35 (4A442) 3' Ground Strap,http://tinyurl.com/3yszste

- $165 (4RP91) Liquid Flowmeter,http://tinyurl.com/378rugu

- $125 (2P695) Fuel Filter,http://tinyurl.com/3a6vyoe

My main questions:
a) Do you use such a system? If so, what do you recommend?

b) Do you suggest the hand pump ($160) or the electric pump (350)?

c) How do most of you FILL the drum (is there a fuel-delivery service)?

d) What do you use for a fuel level gauge?

e) Is the fuel filter really needed?

How do you plan on filling this home-based tank?

Harold Lathom wrote:
I'm considering gassing the cars & off-road vehicles from a fuel drum
at home in a remote area dozens of miles from the nearest gas station.


I used to be affiliated with a volunteer organization. Had a lot of boats.

Anyway, a fuel refiner not only donated the gasoline, but provided a tank
(~200 gallons) and hose which gravity-fed the boat tanks.

Talk to your local gasoline wholesaler. They may GIVE you a tank and come by
whenever you call and deliver the gas.

On 10/22/2010 10:17 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Harold Lathom wrote:
I'm considering gassing the cars& off-road vehicles from a fuel drum
at home in a remote area dozens of miles from the nearest gas station.


I used to be affiliated with a volunteer organization. Had a lot of boats.

Anyway, a fuel refiner not only donated the gasoline, but provided a tank
(~200 gallons) and hose which gravity-fed the boat tanks.

Talk to your local gasoline wholesaler. They may GIVE you a tank and come by
whenever you call and deliver the gas.


For a business in town or a local farmer that uses a lot of fuel, sure.
For a guy living at the uphill end of a winding 2-track, probably not so
much. OP said he may use 2-3 barrels ( 165 gallons) a year.

--
aem sends....

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:01:17 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
How many galons of gas do you use, in a week, month, etc?

Three vehicles, which fill up (about 18 gallons each) about once every
two weeks so a 55-gallon drum should last, oh, about two weeks, maybe
three.

I sense that you're tired of going to town to fill 5
gal containers? Or, do you want a bunch of gas on hand for power cuts
and storms?

Mostly it's the convenience of not having to drive far and wide to fill
up constantly. There's the added benefit that the wifey loves when I fill
up her car but she hates me driving it 'cuz I move the seat and
mirrors!

Some fuel suppliers have the round 200 gal tanks, with the crank pump
provided. I'm sure the gas is more expensive, as they have to deliver.

More expensive? I would think "bulk" is less expensive. But I don't know.

Hand crank pump is more work, but also simpler and less likely to break.

I'm leaning toward the hand pump, if for no other reason, it's cheaper
and does not have electricity to give off a spark.

Filter is cheaper than having your equipment break down account of
sediment or crud.

I figure the fuel is already filtered; but I understand that crud can
build up in the 55-gallon drum, I guess.

Please let us know some more about what you want to do.

You hit the nail on the head pretty much. It's all for gasoline for on-
road vehicular use. It's for convenience. The least convenient part, I
guess, is filling the drum, which I would hope I can find someone to
deliver. If they don't deliver in 55-gallon quantities, then I'll have to
fill 'er up with 10 5-gallon jugs.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:14:49 -0700, hr(bob) wrote:
How do you plan on filling this home-based tank?

That IS a problem. Perhaps the biggest problem of all.

I am hoping there is someone who delivers the gasoline, just like they
deliver propane to my house from a propane truck.

If they don't deliver 55-gallon quantities, then the only other feasible
idea I can think of is to fill it (tediously) from 5-gallon or 10-gallon
portable gasoline containers in the back of my pickup.

If I get a smaller tank (say 30 gallons), I would guess I can lift it by
hand off the pickup bed, but, I'm not young and my back isn't good and I
don't have anything like a forklift. I guess I could build a ramp and
roll the drum down with a dolly but if it's 350 pounds, I really don't
want to do that every few weeks.

Basically, I was hoping YOU guys could advise me on my options for
FILLING the drum.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:32:30 -0400, aemeijers wrote:
OP said he may use 2-3 barrels ( 165 gallons) a year.

I don't remember saying that but maybe I intimated it by accident
somehow; but I'm sure it will be (way) more than that.

The family has three cars, each of which has about an 18-gallon tank
which gets filled about once every two weeks on average. So, that's 54
gallons twice a month (or so).

In a year, that would be about 20 times 50 gallons (roughing it out) or
about 1,000 gallons a year.

I think the biggest hurdle is filling the drum as the rest looks pretty
straightforward. The only questions seem to be whether the hand pump is
worth the effort for the cost and safety savings, and whether or not to
have a filter and meter (both of which seem to be optional but good
ideas).

Harold Lathom wrote:

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:32:30 -0400, aemeijers wrote:
OP said he may use 2-3 barrels ( 165 gallons) a year.

I don't remember saying that but maybe I intimated it by accident
somehow; but I'm sure it will be (way) more than that.

The family has three cars, each of which has about an 18-gallon tank
which gets filled about once every two weeks on average. So, that's 54
gallons twice a month (or so).

Call your local code enforcement people & fired department to see if
you can store a gas barrel on residential property. [in my neck of the
woods the limit is 20 gallons or so beyond what is in your car- and
that has to be in 5 gallon containers] Give your insurance company
a call, too. If they are looking for an excuse to drop you, it
seems like a gas barrel should work as well as anything.

Then call the people who will be delivering it. No way can you come
out ahead carting it around in even 30 gallon bbls. Spillage & PITA
will negate any benefit of gas on hand.

Jim

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:01:17 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
How many galons of gas do you use, in a week, month, etc?

Three vehicles, which fill up (about 18 gallons each) about once every
two weeks so a 55-gallon drum should last, oh, about two weeks, maybe
three.

CY: Hmm. That works out to a reasonable ammout of fuel. Are these road
vehicles, or at-home machines?

I sense that you're tired of going to town to fill 5
gal containers? Or, do you want a bunch of gas on hand for power
cuts
and storms?

Mostly it's the convenience of not having to drive far and wide to
fill
up constantly. There's the added benefit that the wifey loves when I
fill
up her car but she hates me driving it 'cuz I move the seat and
mirrors!

CY: When I shared a vehicle with my parents. I could tell who was the
last driver, based on the seat and miror. I figured out after a while
how to reset the seat and miror to match one of my parents. It comes
to mind that you could put one or two 4-galon gas cans in your car
trunk, and keep her tank topped off that way. Buy your own gas at the
gas station. Of course, you check her oil and fluids on her car, and
keep them topped off.

Some fuel suppliers have the round 200 gal tanks, with the crank
pump
provided. I'm sure the gas is more expensive, as they have to
deliver.

More expensive? I would think "bulk" is less expensive. But I don't
know.

CY: I remember asking a gas guy about that. He says the corner gas
station is much cheaper because the truck can dump 5,000 galons at a
time, and there is only the one hook up and disconnect. Coming out to
someone's house to deliver 200 galons is a lot more labor, and keeps
the truck busy.

Hand crank pump is more work, but also simpler and less likely to
break.

I'm leaning toward the hand pump, if for no other reason, it's cheaper
and does not have electricity to give off a spark.

CY: That's a real concern. Electric motors often spark.

Filter is cheaper than having your equipment break down account of
sediment or crud.

I figure the fuel is already filtered; but I understand that crud can
build up in the 55-gallon drum, I guess.

CY: That's my guess. Rain, and whatever else gets in. In the case of
my snow blower, I think it was a rubber gasket that came apart.

Please let us know some more about what you want to do.

You hit the nail on the head pretty much. It's all for gasoline for
on-
road vehicular use. It's for convenience. The least convenient part, I
guess, is filling the drum, which I would hope I can find someone to
deliver. If they don't deliver in 55-gallon quantities, then I'll have
to
fill 'er up with 10 5-gallon jugs.

CY: I do like the idea of having some gasoline at home. Me, living in
a trailer park, I can't safely store any gasoline at home. But, in
case there is any supply line problems, it's nice to have some fuel at
home. If you can do it safely, and it's clear that you can. I'm
guessing you will find it easier to use the 5 galon cans and fuel up
her car 5 galons at a time. I could easily be mistaken. I hope you let
us know what works out. So we can learn from you.

You mention pickup truck. Some contractors have a fuel tank that fits
in the bed of the truck.
http://www.google.com/products?q=fue...fuel+tank+for+

That could allow you to carry some fuel on the back, and to fill your
wife's car. At the loss of some bed space of course.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Harold Lathom" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:14:49 -0700, hr(bob) wrote:
How do you plan on filling this home-based tank?

That IS a problem. Perhaps the biggest problem of all.

I am hoping there is someone who delivers the gasoline, just like they
deliver propane to my house from a propane truck.

If they don't deliver 55-gallon quantities, then the only other
feasible
idea I can think of is to fill it (tediously) from 5-gallon or
10-gallon
portable gasoline containers in the back of my pickup.

If I get a smaller tank (say 30 gallons), I would guess I can lift it
by
hand off the pickup bed, but, I'm not young and my back isn't good and
I
don't have anything like a forklift. I guess I could build a ramp and
roll the drum down with a dolly but if it's 350 pounds, I really don't
want to do that every few weeks.

Basically, I was hoping YOU guys could advise me on my options for
FILLING the drum.

most newer vehicles have shrader valves under the hood for checking
fuel pump pressure.

you can use your vehicles tank to keep the 55 gallon at home tank
full. connect line to schrader valve, turn on vehicles key, pump away
just dont run vehicles tank to empty..

Harold Lathom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:32:30 -0400, aemeijers wrote:
OP said he may use 2-3 barrels ( 165 gallons) a year.

I don't remember saying that but maybe I intimated it by accident
somehow; but I'm sure it will be (way) more than that.

The family has three cars, each of which has about an 18-gallon tank
which gets filled about once every two weeks on average. So, that's 54
gallons twice a month (or so).

In a year, that would be about 20 times 50 gallons (roughing it out) or
about 1,000 gallons a year.

I think the biggest hurdle is filling the drum as the rest looks pretty
straightforward. The only questions seem to be whether the hand pump is
worth the effort for the cost and safety savings, and whether or not to
have a filter and meter (both of which seem to be optional but good
ideas).

Unless you have a way to carry a bulk amount, you're doing the
proverbial relief action up a rope imo. For the volume you're talking
about, you'll have no luck getting home delivery and so you could fill
up each vehicle one time (roughly) w/o having to go thru the exercise of
filling the barrel again. Just makes no sense nor would it in the end
save any effort.

_IF_ you had a pickup you could buy a transfer tank but certainly it
wouldn't pay to purchase a vehicle for the purpose.

The only way I'd consider something like what you're proposing for such
a small volume would be to use a trailer that could tow to a station for
fillup and dispense from it. That, of course, would legally require a
DOT-compliant transfer tank which isn't cheap, particularly for gasoline
owing to its volatility lower flashpoint as compared to diesel.

W/ the farm, I keep a 150-gal diesel and a 40-gal gas transfer tank in
the pickup for field delivery but we get farm delivery on diesel but its
in 1000 gal delivery quantities minimum (a large tractor/combine fuel
tank may hold 200-gal itself these days).

You just don't have sufficient volume to make this worthwhile venture--I
would predict it would get to be enough pita to deal with as you're
talking that after a while you would decide not to keep doing so as
opposed to simply filling up when needed.

As for the car, get her one w/ automatic driver customization and you'll
have the problem solved...

--

On 10/23/2010 2:17 AM, Harold Lathom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:14:49 -0700, hr(bob) wrote:
How do you plan on filling this home-based tank?

That IS a problem. Perhaps the biggest problem of all.

I am hoping there is someone who delivers the gasoline, just like they
deliver propane to my house from a propane truck.

If they don't deliver 55-gallon quantities, then the only other feasible
idea I can think of is to fill it (tediously) from 5-gallon or 10-gallon
portable gasoline containers in the back of my pickup.

If I get a smaller tank (say 30 gallons), I would guess I can lift it by
hand off the pickup bed, but, I'm not young and my back isn't good and I
don't have anything like a forklift. I guess I could build a ramp and
roll the drum down with a dolly but if it's 350 pounds, I really don't
want to do that every few weeks.

Basically, I was hoping YOU guys could advise me on my options for
FILLING the drum.


Buy an old beater pickup, register it as a farm truck, and put a couple
of those square-side field refueling tanks in it, like the guys that
drive the big yellow things use. It isn't a 'fuel truck', so you don't
have DOT and insurance issues, and those square tanks hold more than a
drum. Yes, this would cost a couple of grand to start with, but it
avoids the whole fill-the-drum problem. You drive the drum to the gas
station, and fuel the other vehicles right out of the truck bed.

--
aem sends...

On 10/23/2010 2:22 AM, Harold Lathom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:32:30 -0400, aemeijers wrote:
OP said he may use 2-3 barrels ( 165 gallons) a year.

I don't remember saying that but maybe I intimated it by accident
somehow; but I'm sure it will be (way) more than that.

The family has three cars, each of which has about an 18-gallon tank
which gets filled about once every two weeks on average. So, that's 54
gallons twice a month (or so).

In a year, that would be about 20 times 50 gallons (roughing it out) or
about 1,000 gallons a year.

I think the biggest hurdle is filling the drum as the rest looks pretty
straightforward. The only questions seem to be whether the hand pump is
worth the effort for the cost and safety savings, and whether or not to
have a filter and meter (both of which seem to be optional but good
ideas).


Yeah, my bad- I should get off the computer when my eyes start going
blurry. I conflated your original post and the first response. But that
is still a tiny delivery. An elevated farmer tank with gravity feed
instead of a pump, would probably be the smallest they would do
deliveries for. Used to be pretty common for well-off folks in the
boonies, but most areas regulate tanks so tightly now, that only
businesses play that game any more. Might be worth a few phone calls,
but plan on a sealed slab with a berm tall enough to hold the entire
tank contents, and 'X' feet from any living quarters, to have any chance
of approval from the PTB or your insurance company. Probably also an
inspection and certification cycle to deal with.

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:39:21 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Call your local code enforcement people & fired department to see if you
can store a gas barrel on residential property. [in my neck of the woods
the limit is 20 gallons or so beyond what is in your car- and that has
to be in 5 gallon containers]

They all told me 55 gallons and less is unregulated and even so, for
homeowners, it's really up to discretion because they don't have specific
laws for that here.

I did find another (much cheaper) supplier than Granger:
DRUMS: http://www.valumotion.com/c-drums-an...tanks-skolnik-
closedhead-carbon-steel-drums.php
PUMPS: http://www.valumotion.com/c-pumps-ca...-vane-pump.php
LIFTS: http://www.valumotion.com/c-portable...sco-ergonomic-
drum-lift.php
etc.

At this point, I agree the hardest task is FILLING the drums. I don't
have any supplier yet who will deliver 55 gallons.

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:41:59 -0500, dpb wrote:
For the volume you're talking
about, you'll have no luck getting home delivery

Home delivery of 55 gallons of fuel does seem to be problematic.

I'm still finding cheaper alternatives for the equipment, e.g.,
http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/ma...-barrel/drums-
pails/closed-open-head-steel-drums-pails

But, I haven't yet found a fuel supplier.

Harold Lathom wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:41:59 -0500, dpb wrote:
For the volume you're talking
about, you'll have no luck getting home delivery

Home delivery of 55 gallons of fuel does seem to be problematic.

I'm still finding cheaper alternatives for the equipment, e.g.,
http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/ma...-barrel/drums-
pails/closed-open-head-steel-drums-pails

But, I haven't yet found a fuel supplier.

And I'd say it's unlikely you'll find one. 55 gal isn't a "bulk" sale
to distributors and they're not going to waste their time. Farm
deliveries here are now 500 gal minimum excepting for some existing
long-term customers that are on routes that can cover going elsewhere.
I can still get 250 gal but not except when they're heading by to/from
one of the neighbors; they won't come out just for me any longer.

--

dpb wrote:

Harold Lathom wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:41:59 -0500, dpb wrote:
For the volume you're talking
about, you'll have no luck getting home delivery

Home delivery of 55 gallons of fuel does seem to be problematic.

I'm still finding cheaper alternatives for the equipment, e.g.,
http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/ma...-barrel/drums-
pails/closed-open-head-steel-drums-pails

But, I haven't yet found a fuel supplier.

And I'd say it's unlikely you'll find one. 55 gal isn't a "bulk" sale
to distributors and they're not going to waste their time. Farm
deliveries here are now 500 gal minimum excepting for some existing
long-term customers that are on routes that can cover going elsewhere.
I can still get 250 gal but not except when they're heading by to/from
one of the neighbors; they won't come out just for me any longer.

Curious about your farm deliveries. Do/Can you pay the road taxes
on that, or is it always for off-road use?

30 years ago in a place far away, I remember we 'couldn't' gas our
cars from the farm tanks. I don't know if that was peculiar to the
area, the delivery outfit, how it was set up for this farmer-- or
just BS from the farmer so he didn't have to deal with us using his
gas.g

Jim

On 10/26/2010 7:56 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
wrote:

Harold Lathom wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:41:59 -0500, dpb wrote:
For the volume you're talking
about, you'll have no luck getting home delivery

Home delivery of 55 gallons of fuel does seem to be problematic.

I'm still finding cheaper alternatives for the equipment, e.g.,
http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/ma...-barrel/drums-
pails/closed-open-head-steel-drums-pails

But, I haven't yet found a fuel supplier.

And I'd say it's unlikely you'll find one. 55 gal isn't a "bulk" sale
to distributors and they're not going to waste their time. Farm
deliveries here are now 500 gal minimum excepting for some existing
long-term customers that are on routes that can cover going elsewhere.
I can still get 250 gal but not except when they're heading by to/from
one of the neighbors; they won't come out just for me any longer.

Curious about your farm deliveries. Do/Can you pay the road taxes
on that, or is it always for off-road use?

30 years ago in a place far away, I remember we 'couldn't' gas our
cars from the farm tanks. I don't know if that was peculiar to the
area, the delivery outfit, how it was set up for this farmer-- or
just BS from the farmer so he didn't have to deal with us using his
gas.g

Jim

Long ago and far away, my father used to have an elevated tank of
DIESEL, for topping off the company backhoe. This was at his small
construction company, and the 'storage yard' was maybe 3 city lots, so
everything above the six-food fence was visible to people (and kids)
driving by. One time they forgot to padlock the hose nozzle to the hook,
and some kids filled up their car from the tank. My father didn't have
the heart to press charges- the pain of explaining to daddy about the
tow bill and fuel system flush was punishment enough, he figured. Of
course, diesel was a lot cheaper back then.

--
aem sends...