Hi.. I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

On Oct 20, 2:54*pm, KOS wrote:
Hi.. *I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

I guess it depends on how you will be finishing the walls - and the
wall/celing joint.

I can speak from exerience that in my 54 YO house, the painted plaster
walls of the original structure look different than the painted walls
in the drywalled addition. The finished surface is just not the same.

The plaster walls and ceilings have more "character" than the drywall,
with a certain amount of wave and a glossier surface, even with the
same paint.

In addition (assuming paint again) you'll be dealing with 2 different
surface materials in an area where you need to be particularly
concerned with a perfectly proper paint job due to moisture.

I don't know how thick your plaster walls are, but mine are 3/4"
thick. There's 3/8" of a horizontal, tongue and groove, brown paper
covered gypsum product and then 3/8" of plaster. I'd need to shim out
(or double up) the drywall to get it line up at the edges. Even then I
don't know if I could get it perfect based on the irregularities of
the plaster.

So that makes you lean towards a complete tearoff, right? Well...

The downside of a complete tearout is the ceiling to wall joint. In my
house, there's metal lath like this in the wall/ceiling joint:

http://www.cemcosteel.com/fv-560.aspx

Removing the wall without disturbing the ceiling is not an easy task.
After 54 years, the plaster is brittle and the lath is pretty rusted.
It's far from a joyful experience to remove that last 3 or 4 inches of
wall - unless you're going to do the ceiling also.

"KOS" wrote in message
...
Hi.. I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

Dealing with a contractor? Ask for a price either way. Doubt if there
would be any savings.
Doing it your self? You would save a few square feet of sheet rock and
increase the hassle and work.

My choice in a bath is to gut everything.

On Oct 20, 2:54*pm, KOS wrote:
Hi.. *I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

If there are no cracks in the existing plaster and it's all in good
shape, I'd be tempted to keep the plaster if price were the only
consideration, but it rarely is. A complete demo won't cost much more
than the partial demo, the additional drywall won't be all that much
unless the bathroom is large and/or complicated, and a complete demo
usually allows the insulation and wiring to be brought up to snuff.
If there is a bathroom above, it will also allow you to inspect the
framing for rot from (prior) leaks, sketchy plumbing, etc.

There is no issue with matching surfaces - simply skim coat the entire
wall and it will be seamless in appearance.

R

"KOS" wrote in message
...
Hi.. I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

From the 60's it's probably rock lath plaster, which is really solid and a
shame to demo, but it's only a bathroom and sheetrock is cheap. I'd demo the
room and use green board all over and cement board in the tub/shower.

"KOS" wrote in message
...
Hi.. I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

I have done it both ways and may do it both ways again in the future
depending on the situation, time and help I have for the job.

For the home you live in I suspect a complete demo will yield the best
results for you. It is easier to finish new drywall than it is to marry
drywall to plaster because the tapered edges make finishing far easier. If
you have a slick finished ceiling that is in good shape the drywall wall can
mate with that and finish out nicely. Often that is the easier way to go
unless you have situation like DerbyDad03 mentions in his post. I
personally have never encountered that.

Be sure to use hardibacker or crumble crap under the tile in the wet areas.
Green board or that newer mold board are fine for the non-wet areas. The
minor increase in cost is always worth it to do right the first and only
time.

Also note that you may need to shim out the studs to be level with existing
door and window frames depending on how thick the plaster is. Not a big
deal but you must do it before the wallboard goes up.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Oct 20, 9:22*pm, (Nestor Kelebay)
wrote:
responding tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Bathroom-Remodel-Demo-Job-ol...

Homesnowersbub.com is a joke. Thought you should know.

KOS wrote:

I've read the other posts to this thread, and I've done this kind of work
many times and never found that the expanded metal corner bead in the
wall/ceiling corner to be that much of a problem.

What I did was use a plastic laminate knife (the kind with the single
tungsten carbide tooth at the end of the "blade") to score deeply into the
plaster along the wall/ceiling corner. *I would make two such score lines;
one along the wall/ceiling corner line and another about 3 inches below
and parallel to the first score line. *Then I'd use the laminate knife to
widen the upper score line so that I could cut through the metal corner
bead with a pair of tin snips. *Since the metal corner bead is nailed on,
and I had cut through the plaster below the corner bead, once I got one
end of the corner bead exposed, I could just pull it off the wall. *As
long as you cut through the expanded metal right at the corner, the whole
flange will pull off relatively easily up to each nail. *Then you have to
spend a few minutes removing the nail, and it pulls off easily until you
get to the nail after that, etc.

I take it you don't own an angle grinder with a diamond wheel. It
cuts through the plaster and metal lath without all of that scoring.
Just put the blade in the wall/ceiling corner at 45 degrees and blaze
away. It reaches to within a few inches of an inside corner and then
you can break out the snips.

If it were me, what I would do is remove the old tiling and see what the
plaster under it looks like. *If the plaster behind the tile is in good
shape, I'd leave it and tile over it. *If that plaster is very water
damaged, I'd probably replace the water damaged plaster with 1 piece of
1/4 inch plywood covered with a 1/2 inch thick sheet of cement board (or
Georgia Pacific's Denshield) and tile over that.

Denshield is basically greenboard. Tile pros don't really like the
stuff.
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ight=denshield

If the old tile was stuck on with mastic, you can remove that old hard
mastic with a Nestor scraper, named after it's inventor. *To make a Nestor
scraper you simply grip the back edge of a single edge razor blade using
the ends of the jaws of "needle nose style" locking pliers. *You then use
a heat gun to soften the old mastic and scrape it off the wall with the
Nestor scraper. *Wear a leather glove in your working hand because the
Nestor scraper will get pretty hot.

I take it you don't own a painter's five-in-one tool...or any other
scraper...or visegrips. What do you do exactly?

Also, put a piece of scrap carpet pile side down in your tub before taking
any tile off. *That will protect the tub from getting all scratched up by
the pieces of tile. *Also, use a piece of cord and a hose clamp to fasten
the cold chisel you use to remove the old tiling to your wrist. *That way,
if you drop the chisel, the cord will catch it before it hits the tub and
causes a big chip.

Hose clamp? Why not just have a loop in the end of the cord to slip
over your wrist?

I'd leave the good plaster up and tile over it. *And, I'd tile right to
the ceiling.

I've tiled well over 20 bathrooms, and you can see pictures of my work on
my web site at:

Me, too. Then I put in another twenty years.

R

On 10/20/2010 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:54 pm, wrote:
Hi.. I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

I guess it depends on how you will be finishing the walls - and the
wall/celing joint.

I can speak from exerience that in my 54 YO house, the painted plaster
walls of the original structure look different than the painted walls
in the drywalled addition. The finished surface is just not the same.

The plaster walls and ceilings have more "character" than the drywall,
with a certain amount of wave and a glossier surface, even with the
same paint.


I totally agree. Just fixed the plaster walls in my kitchen and it is a
delight. Sheetrock is so flat, plaster is more "vibrant".

If the rest of the house is plaster, I'd fix it. If it is all
sheetrock then the plaster would look odd.

Jeff

On Oct 20, 2:54*pm, KOS wrote:

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

Depends on how you plan to finish the walls.

I've always re-tiled, so I removed the wall a little above the tile,
replaced it with green board (after sistering the studs to adjust for
thickness difference) and then tiled above that joint.

If I were going to paint, I'd re-plaster.
-----

- gpsman

On Oct 21, 7:56*am, gpsman wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:54*pm, KOS wrote:



Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

Depends on how you plan to finish the walls.

I've always re-tiled, so I removed the wall a little above the tile,
replaced it with green board (after sistering the studs to adjust for
thickness difference) and then tiled above that joint.

If I were going to paint, I'd re-plaster.
*-----

- gpsman

"after sistering the studs"

Do you typically sister or shim?

On Oct 21, 1:00*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:56*am, gpsman wrote:

I've always re-tiled, so I removed the wall a little above the tile,
replaced it with green board (after sistering the studs to adjust for
thickness difference) and then tiled above that joint.

Do you typically sister or shim?

I've typically been successful avoiding that type of work for 40
years, but I never tried to shim existing studs.
-----

- gpsman

On Oct 21, 2:37*pm, gpsman wrote:
On Oct 21, 1:00*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:56*am, gpsman wrote:

I've always re-tiled, so I removed the wall a little above the tile,
replaced it with green board (after sistering the studs to adjust for
thickness difference) and then tiled above that joint.

Do you typically sister or shim?

I've typically been successful avoiding that type of work for 40
years, but I never tried to shim existing studs.

Unless there's a structural issue, I always shim out the studs. It's
a great way to use up all of that scrap that's always laying about.

R

On Oct 20, 2:54*pm, KOS wrote:
Hi.. *I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

I've read the other responses, and the term "insulation" was
used rarely, but it was mentioned.
My suggestion is that you insulate the outside wall.
I replaced a window with glass block, and insulated with
3 layers of Styrofoam to accomplish coming exactly even
with the inner edges of the 2x4's of the outer wall. That way,
it was a very solid surface, and doesn't get so cold in the
winter and serve as a condensate surface for hot showers,
which afterwards encourages mold growth.
But then, I also did my tile work in a BETTER fashion than
you can get from the pros. Because it didn't include grout.

On Oct 21, 11:12*pm, Michael B wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:54*pm, KOS wrote:

Hi.. *I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

I've read the other responses, and the term "insulation" was
used rarely, but it was mentioned.

You're welcome.

My suggestion is that you insulate the outside wall.
I replaced a window with glass block, and insulated with
3 layers of Styrofoam to accomplish coming exactly even
with the inner edges of the 2x4's of the outer wall. That way,
it was a very solid surface, and doesn't get so cold in the
winter and serve as a condensate surface for hot showers,
which afterwards encourages mold growth.
But then, I also did my tile work in a BETTER fashion than
you can get from the pros. Because it didn't include grout.

What do you mean about the grout?

R

On Oct 22, 12:13*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 21, 11:12*pm, Michael B wrote:



On Oct 20, 2:54*pm, KOS wrote:

Hi.. *I have a bathroom that will be remodeled.. House is 50 years
old.. Bathroom has plaster walls.. The current tile goes up about 5
feet high.. Then from there to the ceiling its plaster....

Some people say we should demo the entire wall...Even the part where
the tile stops... Completely remove all plaster walls to studs...

Other people say, you can save money... Just demo the tile..... Where
the plaster goes to the ceiling, just feather it with sheetrock and
you wont be able to tell the difference... What do you think? I'm
thinking its better to demo all the walls to the studs... any advice

I've read the other responses, and the term "insulation" was
used rarely, but it was mentioned.

You're welcome.

My suggestion is that you insulate the outside wall.
I replaced a window with glass block, and insulated with
3 layers of Styrofoam to accomplish coming exactly even
with the inner edges of the 2x4's of the outer wall. That way,
it was a very solid surface, and doesn't get so cold in the
winter and serve as a condensate surface for hot showers,
which afterwards encourages mold growth.
But then, I also did my tile work in a BETTER fashion than
you can get from the pros. Because it didn't include grout.

What do you mean about the grout?

R

The grout is the weak link in a tile job. It allows water
to pass, it supports mold, etc.
After doing the Styrofoam in the walls, I covered all
the wall areas with Greenboard. Not because I needed
it, but because it's what I had. After all, it wasn't going
to get wet anyway. I found a tile style with some texture
and random pattern that matched white silicone very well.
Pure white that is unpaintable, so it also doesn't stain
easily, and does not support mold or mildew. I put a bead
of it at the respective tile sides, squiggled it on the back,
put my tile a half inch from where it was going to be,
wiggled it around to get there, and then used my finger
to remove excess and put it on the back of the next one.
Each tile edge and mating edge got a bead of silicone,
so I used a fair amount of the stuff. Three tubes of it.
And instead of putting the tiles 1/2" apart or whatever,
they are butted up against each other, with the silicone
the only transition.

That was over 15 years ago, and it still looks new. No
trouble at the tub transition, no trouble elsewhere. No
mold, no grout sealing, nothing.

And the job cost me the time, the silicone, the 35 or so
tiles, at 72 cents each. And I got a far better job than
the tile professional would have done, and just a little
less expensive, too.