If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

i

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344 wrote:

If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be unable
to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no emergency,
as we have less food and all our food easily fits in another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic front
control.

i

Call a ****ing professional service tech you nut-job.

Mike Hocksbigg wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344 wrote:

If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be unable
to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no emergency,
as we have less food and all our food easily fits in another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic front
control.

i

Call a ****ing professional service tech you nut-job.

Wound pretty tight today aren't we?

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 13:44:04 -0700, Jim Stewart wrote:

Mike Hocksbigg wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344 wrote:

If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

i

Call a ****ing professional service tech you nut-job.

Wound pretty tight today aren't we?

Yep.

I filtered ignor-anus a while back. Can't remember why. Crude
language, being a general PIA, somethng like that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Mike Hocksbigg" wrote in message
news
Call a ****ing professional service tech you nut-job.

Wound pretty tight today aren't we?

Yep.

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mike Hocksbigg wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344 wrote:

If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be unable
to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no emergency,
as we have less food and all our food easily fits in another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic front
control.

i

Call a ****ing professional service tech you nut-job.

Wound pretty tight today aren't we?

Good call, Jim.

Some people! sigh

Harold

Wouldn't he call a refrigeration professional, instead?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Mike Hocksbigg" wrote in message
news

Call a ****ing professional service tech you nut-job.

"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley
in :

Wouldn't he call a refrigeration professional, instead?

They're pretty scarce. He might be better with an F-ing professional,
instead.

We had a "refrigeration professional" out to the factory a three months
ago to replace an A/C compressor under warrantee.

Long story short... I had to do (actually completely UN-do, clean the
work, and RE-do) the brazing for him. He couldn't lick all the leaks.

To his defense, it was a BAD position in which to work, he was a short
little sucker, the unit was tall, and it was a tiny, tight workspace
inside the coil of that unit. But damn... I'm just a pyrotechnics guy,
and _I_ was able to Sil-Flo that thing down tight in one try.

So much for "refrigeration professionals".

Yeah... I know there are some. I learned to braze from one. But this
guy's was the sort of skills I see all the time over in alt.hvac. And
they SCREAM about how they're the only ones competent to work on systems.

Hell... half of them can't figure out which way is "up" for liquid feed
with R410a. (or why),(and it's printed on the bottle)

LLoyd

On 2010-09-22, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley
in :

Wouldn't he call a refrigeration professional, instead?

They're pretty scarce. He might be better with an F-ing professional,
instead.

We had a "refrigeration professional" out to the factory a three months
ago to replace an A/C compressor under warrantee.

Long story short... I had to do (actually completely UN-do, clean the
work, and RE-do) the brazing for him. He couldn't lick all the leaks.

To his defense, it was a BAD position in which to work, he was a short
little sucker, the unit was tall, and it was a tiny, tight workspace
inside the coil of that unit. But damn... I'm just a pyrotechnics guy,
and _I_ was able to Sil-Flo that thing down tight in one try.

So much for "refrigeration professionals".

Yeah... I know there are some. I learned to braze from one. But this
guy's was the sort of skills I see all the time over in alt.hvac. And
they SCREAM about how they're the only ones competent to work on systems.

Hell... half of them can't figure out which way is "up" for liquid feed
with R410a. (or why),(and it's printed on the bottle)

Lloyd, I mostly am after trying to understand what is happening, right
now. I have a luxury of having plenty of time, due to having less food
at home that fits onto one fridge.

i

Ignoramus25344 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, I mostly am after trying to understand what is happening, right
now. I have a luxury of having plenty of time, due to having less food
at home that fits onto one fridge.

yep. I have repaired a number of them with the same symptom, but the
symptom can be caused by more than one problem.

As someone else said, a _thoroughly_ frozen-up evaporator can cause the
symptom, because the liquid refrigerant won't boil out of the coil fast
enough to reduce the head pressure before the next cycle is requested.
That's one.

A lot of compressors now come with PTC thermistors in place of the
potential relays they used to employ to switch the start cap out of
circuit. They tend to fail rather easily in a high-humidity environment.

Although they're not terribly expensive, I replace all of them with
potential relays; sometimes scavanged from other similar-sized
compressors, sometimes new.

Then, of course, it's possible the new start cap is failing.

The compressor could be on the way out. If the bearings are getting
sticky or tight, the compressor will be harder to start than it should
be. This eventually manifests itself as a "locked rotor", and nothing
you can do (effectively) will fix that, except replacing the compressor.

Foreign material in the closed system can cause it, too. You didn't say
anything about ever opening it, but flakes of insulation from the
compressor windings and corrosion flaking off the inside of improperly
cleaned or improperly brazed lines can all do it. These, too, are
generally fatal problems, and cannot be fixed merely by replacing the
compressor and re-charging.

LLoyd

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...
On 2010-09-22, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley
in :

Wouldn't he call a refrigeration professional, instead?

They're pretty scarce. He might be better with an F-ing professional,
instead.

We had a "refrigeration professional" out to the factory a three months
ago to replace an A/C compressor under warrantee.

Long story short... I had to do (actually completely UN-do, clean the
work, and RE-do) the brazing for him. He couldn't lick all the leaks.

To his defense, it was a BAD position in which to work, he was a short
little sucker, the unit was tall, and it was a tiny, tight workspace
inside the coil of that unit. But damn... I'm just a pyrotechnics guy,
and _I_ was able to Sil-Flo that thing down tight in one try.

So much for "refrigeration professionals".

Yeah... I know there are some. I learned to braze from one. But this
guy's was the sort of skills I see all the time over in alt.hvac. And
they SCREAM about how they're the only ones competent to work on systems.

Hell... half of them can't figure out which way is "up" for liquid feed
with R410a. (or why),(and it's printed on the bottle)

Lloyd, I mostly am after trying to understand what is happening, right
now. I have a luxury of having plenty of time, due to having less food
at home that fits onto one fridge.

i

Iggy,
You shouldn't have to justify what you do to any of these guys. If they
"don't get it", that's their problem.

Luck with the repair.

Harold

I don' thave a lot of contact with other HVAC guys. But, I can easily
believe what you've written. It's a shame that so many techs lack the
basic skills.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Stormin Mormon" fired this
volley
in :

Wouldn't he call a refrigeration professional, instead?

They're pretty scarce. He might be better with an F-ing professional,
instead.

We had a "refrigeration professional" out to the factory a three
months
ago to replace an A/C compressor under warrantee.

Long story short... I had to do (actually completely UN-do, clean the
work, and RE-do) the brazing for him. He couldn't lick all the leaks.

To his defense, it was a BAD position in which to work, he was a short
little sucker, the unit was tall, and it was a tiny, tight workspace
inside the coil of that unit. But damn... I'm just a pyrotechnics
guy,
and _I_ was able to Sil-Flo that thing down tight in one try.

So much for "refrigeration professionals".

Yeah... I know there are some. I learned to braze from one. But this
guy's was the sort of skills I see all the time over in alt.hvac. And
they SCREAM about how they're the only ones competent to work on
systems.

Hell... half of them can't figure out which way is "up" for liquid
feed
with R410a. (or why),(and it's printed on the bottle)

LLoyd

Perhaps, once he has determined that the solution is beyond his ability, of course. Don't be bustin his ass because he's making
that effort. Furthermore, we in this group HELP, unlike those responders at alt.hvac
Steve

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...
Wouldn't he call a refrigeration professional, instead?

On Sep 21, 4:18*pm, Ignoramus25344 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25344.invalid wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

i

Just guessing, again, but this sounds like the pressure is not
bleeding off, for whatever reason. It's hard to imagine seals that
would hold pressure for hours, but I suppose it's possible. Or, maybe
there's some contamination somewhere - water, perhaps, that's freezing
in a low spot in a line?

Wait a minute - I just reread your post - Am I right that it does
restart if you let it sit a couple of hours? What if you let it sit a
few (maybe 5) minutes? Wait till the compressor is running, then
unplug it after a couple of minutes. Then wait five minutes and plug
it back in. Does it restart then? If so, there's something wrong with
the control circuitry. It should not, under normal circumstances, be
trying to start against a load. There should be enough hysterisis in
the thermostat, or some sort of lock-out timer to prevent rapid
cycling.

Do you maybe have an air leak - lik in the door gasket? I could see
how that would cause rapid cycling.

RS

On Sep 21, 5:50*pm, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:20:36 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sep 21, 4:18*pm, Ignoramus25344 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25344.invalid wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in another
fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic front
control.

i

Just guessing, again, but this sounds like the pressure is not bleeding
off, for whatever reason. It's hard to imagine seals that would hold
pressure for hours, but I suppose it's possible. Or, maybe there's some
contamination somewhere - water, perhaps, that's freezing in a low spot
in a line?

Wait a minute - I just reread your post - Am I right that it does
restart if you let it sit a couple of hours? What if you let it sit a
few (maybe 5) minutes? Wait till the compressor is running, then unplug
it after a couple of minutes. Then wait five minutes and plug it back
in. Does it restart then? If so, there's something wrong with the
control circuitry. It should not, under normal circumstances, be trying
to start against a load. There should be enough hysterisis in the
thermostat, or some sort of lock-out timer to prevent rapid cycling.

Do you maybe have an air leak - lik in the door gasket? I could see how
that would cause rapid cycling.

RS

I mentioned a month ago the dumb**** probably had ice build up inside the
cap tube or possibly if equipped the TEV. You might ask where the
moisture comes from in a sealed system. Not knowing the service history
of this unit I could not tell you if it actually has ice build up or if
the system had been worked on prior to dumb**** purchasing it used. But
it sure displays the proper symptoms to be a distinct possibility

'Scuse me, but Igor is hardly a "dumb****." He can afford to pay
professionals, but likes to do things himself, and isn't embarassed
about asking for help. There's a lot to be learned from his approach
to these things.

On Sep 21, 2:50*pm, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:20:36 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sep 21, 4:18*pm, Ignoramus25344 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25344.invalid wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in another
fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic front
control.

i

Just guessing, again, but this sounds like the pressure is not bleeding
off, for whatever reason. It's hard to imagine seals that would hold
pressure for hours, but I suppose it's possible. Or, maybe there's some
contamination somewhere - water, perhaps, that's freezing in a low spot
in a line?

Wait a minute - I just reread your post - Am I right that it does
restart if you let it sit a couple of hours? What if you let it sit a
few (maybe 5) minutes? Wait till the compressor is running, then unplug
it after a couple of minutes. Then wait five minutes and plug it back
in. Does it restart then? If so, there's something wrong with the
control circuitry. It should not, under normal circumstances, be trying
to start against a load. There should be enough hysterisis in the
thermostat, or some sort of lock-out timer to prevent rapid cycling.

Do you maybe have an air leak - lik in the door gasket? I could see how
that would cause rapid cycling.

RS

I mentioned a month ago the dumb**** probably had ice build up inside the
cap tube or possibly if equipped the TEV. You might ask where the
moisture comes from in a sealed system. Not knowing the service history
of this unit I could not tell you if it actually has ice build up or if
the system had been worked on prior to dumb**** purchasing it used. But
it sure displays the proper symptoms to be a distinct possibility.

I mentioned a month ago the dumb**** probably had ice build up inside
the
cap tube or possibly if equipped the TEV.

BTW (I don't think Bob wrote this) "dumb****" stuff.

But when's the last time you saw an ordinary household REFRIGERATOR with a
freakin' TEV? Huh? Who's the dumb****?

LLoyd

On 9/21/2010 11:10 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I mentioned a month ago the dumb**** probably had ice build up inside
the
cap tube or possibly if equipped the TEV.

BTW (I don't think Bob wrote this) "dumb****" stuff.

But when's the last time you saw an ordinary household REFRIGERATOR with a
freakin' TEV? Huh? Who's the dumb****?

LLoyd

A Sub-Zero? Of course, it's not exactly ordinary.

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 9/21/2010 11:10 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I mentioned a month ago the dumb**** probably had ice build up inside
the
cap tube or possibly if equipped the TEV.

BTW (I don't think Bob wrote this) "dumb****" stuff.

But when's the last time you saw an ordinary household REFRIGERATOR with
a
freakin' TEV? Huh? Who's the dumb****?

LLoyd

A Sub-Zero? Of course, it's not exactly ordinary.

TDD

They are extraordinary. Their price is through the roof. Their appeal and
appearance are through the roof. Their customer complaints and
dissatisfaction with service and repairs are also through the roof.

How good does a fridge have to be?

Unlike Vulcan, Wolf, Dacor, and similar stoves that just perform superbly, a
Sub-Zero is an average refrigerator with some fancy features at a
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher price than average.
.................................................. You pay more, you don't
get more, except for a fancier cover plate.

Steve

Refrigerator repairmen to me are like teachers. They can't make it in the
real world, or at any chosen discipline, so they just take the easy way out,
and settle for a position that at least doesn't have a social stigma like
"gutter cleaner".

If they were able to grasp the basics of HVAC, they'd be out there changing
10 ton units, doing new construction, putting in very large walk in coolers
or freezers, or the like.

But instead, they don't have what it it takes to make it in the trade, so
they fall back on "refrigerator repairman."

Which to me is the same to "bicycle mechanic."

No offense to bicycle mechanics out there .................................

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sep 22, 1:31*am, "Steve B" wrote:
Refrigerator repairmen to me are like teachers. *They can't make it in the
real world, or at any chosen discipline, so they just take the easy way out,
and settle for a position that at least doesn't have a social stigma like
"gutter cleaner".

If they were able to grasp the basics of HVAC, they'd be out there changing
10 ton units, doing new construction, putting in very large walk in coolers
or freezers, or the like.

But instead, they don't have what it it takes to make it in the trade, so
they fall back on "refrigerator repairman."

Which to me is the same to "bicycle mechanic."

No offense to bicycle mechanics out there ..................................

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
*http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

What the ****? Teachers can't make it in the real world, or at any
chosen discipline, so they just take the easy way out? Are you ****ing
serious?

And, when was the last time you saw ice inside a cap tube? I've been
ammused, here, for the entire thread. I'm not at Iggy's place, doing a
proper diagnosis. But from what he wrote (and I saw quoted in someone
else's post). I'd be looking in different direction for the source of
the problem. But, then, everyone knows. I'm just a the dumf'k from alt
havoc.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...

I mentioned a month ago the dumb**** probably had ice build up
inside
the
cap tube or possibly if equipped the TEV.

BTW (I don't think Bob wrote this) "dumb****" stuff.

But when's the last time you saw an ordinary household REFRIGERATOR
with a
freakin' TEV? Huh? Who's the dumb****?

LLoyd

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344 wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

You're already wasted more time and money that a housecall and
diagnosis would have cost. You can't quit now. Replace the
compressor. Then the evaporator. Then rip out all the plumbing and
replace that too. Replace the control unit too while you're at it.
Don't forget to replace the outlet, inside house wiring, and the
utility power pole.

AZ Nomad wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344 wrote:

If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.


The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.


After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.


However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.


What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.


The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.


You're already wasted more time and money that a housecall and
diagnosis would have cost. You can't quit now. Replace the
compressor. Then the evaporator. Then rip out all the plumbing and
replace that too. Replace the control unit too while you're at it.
Don't forget to replace the outlet, inside house wiring, and the
utility power pole.

Keep your day job AZ. You aren't going to make it as a comic.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

jeff_wisnia wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344
wrote:

If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.


The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.


After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.


However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.


What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.


The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.


You're already wasted more time and money that a housecall and
diagnosis would have cost. You can't quit now. Replace the
compressor. Then the evaporator. Then rip out all the plumbing and
replace that too. Replace the control unit too while you're at it.
Don't forget to replace the outlet, inside house wiring, and the
utility power pole.

Keep your day job AZ. You aren't going to make it as a comic.

Jeff


I thought it was funny. I give it 5 stars.

jeff_wisnia fired this volley in
:

Keep your day job AZ. You aren't going to make it as a comic.

He better try the comic thing... he can't make it as a refrigeration
professional no matter how hard he tries.

LLoyd

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 20:54:31 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
jeff_wisnia fired this volley in
:

Keep your day job AZ. You aren't going to make it as a comic.

He better try the comic thing... he can't make it as a refrigeration
professional no matter how hard he tries.

I know enough not to employ the shotgun approach. However if you think
****ing away ten times the cost of having a pro diagnose it correctly is
the way to go, then don't let anybody stop you.

On 2010-09-22, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 20:54:31 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
jeff_wisnia fired this volley in
:

Keep your day job AZ. You aren't going to make it as a comic.

He better try the comic thing... he can't make it as a refrigeration
professional no matter how hard he tries.

I know enough not to employ the shotgun approach. However if you think
****ing away ten times the cost of having a pro diagnose it correctly is
the way to go, then don't let anybody stop you.


The advantage that comes from DIY approach is that besides fixing the
fridge, I learn something.

i

AZ Nomad fired this volley in
:

I know enough not to employ the shotgun approach. However if you think
****ing away ten times the cost of having a pro diagnose it correctly is
the way to go, then don't let anybody stop you.

Ig is a smart guy. He can learn enough to save him ten times over what it
would cost, just by fiddling around with a unit that isn't critical to him
anyway.

LLoyd

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.


Look dude.... Just ****can the thing and buy another one.

And PLEASE just shut the **** up.


Have a nice day! :-)



--
None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in
here with you....You're locked in here with ME!

On 2010-09-21, HVAC wrote:

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.


Look dude.... Just ****can the thing and buy another one.

And PLEASE just shut the **** up.


Have a nice day! :-)


Just curious why are you so ****y, a slow day? Customers not calling?

i

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...

Look dude.... Just ****can the thing and buy another one.

And PLEASE just shut the **** up.


Have a nice day! :-)


Just curious why are you so ****y,


****y? This is me being NICE.



a slow day? Customers not calling?


I've never been so busy. Seriously.

I do commercial only and all I can say
is WHAT recession?




--
Every Time You See a Rainbow, God is Having Gay Sex

On 2010-09-21, HVAC wrote:

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...

Look dude.... Just ****can the thing and buy another one.

And PLEASE just shut the **** up.


Have a nice day! :-)


Just curious why are you so ****y,


****y? This is me being NICE.



a slow day? Customers not calling?


I've never been so busy. Seriously.

I do commercial only and all I can say
is WHAT recession?

So, say, what would you say if you were in a nasty mood?

i

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...

****y? This is me being NICE.



a slow day? Customers not calling?


I've never been so busy. Seriously.

I do commercial only and all I can say
is WHAT recession?

So, say, what would you say if you were in a nasty mood?


I'm always in a good mood.

Now **** off, asshole.



--
"I'll stick my knife right down your throat, baby and it hurts."

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 17:53:45 -0400, "HVAC" wrote:


"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
m...

Look dude.... Just ****can the thing and buy another one.

And PLEASE just shut the **** up.


Have a nice day! :-)


Just curious why are you so ****y,


****y? This is me being NICE.

Then you are normally a dick?



a slow day? Customers not calling?


I've never been so busy. Seriously.

I do commercial only and all I can say
is WHAT recession?

So you do lots of work for mascochists?

Or are you simply a prick to those that dont hire you?

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Ignoramus25344 fired this volley in
:

Just curious why are you so ****y, a slow day? Customers not calling?

no... he's a "refrigeration professional", and doesn't want anyone to
figure out the four or five pages of knowlege that constitutes his
"professional advantage" over ordinary laymen.

LLoyd

On 2010-09-22, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus25344 fired this volley in
:

Just curious why are you so ****y, a slow day? Customers not calling?

no... he's a "refrigeration professional", and doesn't want anyone to
figure out the four or five pages of knowlege that constitutes his
"professional advantage" over ordinary laymen.

Does that refrigeration knowledge amount to so little? Any textbook
you would recommend?

I cannot believe that, after fixing and retrofitting my Bridgeport
Interact CNC mill, I cannot ever properly diagnose a bad Sears
refrigerator. I started knowing nothing about CNC mills and now,
thanks to all the great help I got, I have a working CNC machine.

Maybe I can fix the fridge too.

i

Ignoramus25344 fired this volley in
:

Does that refrigeration knowledge amount to so little?

Well, HIS does. The body of knowlege a competent tech has is quite
large, and encompasses a wide variety of disciplines. You have many of
them already. But the skills specific to refrigeration repair are not
many, and your learning them wouldn't be a stretch, at all.

Now, I said, "technician". There's a whopping difference between a
competent tech and a real refrigeration expert. He's the guy who can
compute actual superheats based upon the refrigerant's characteristics,
the compressor specs, the load, etc. He can do and knows a lot more than
that.

If you're working on massive chillers for domed stadiums, you need that
sort of knowlege. Those guys are real engineers.

The techs could do everything they do from a ten page cheat-sheet. And
no... I'm not kidding. Like most repair trades, except for the handling
and diagnosing of actual refrigeration problems, they solve most of their
problems by parts-swapping. Most of their refrigeration-based problems
are handled by rote, not by a clear understanding of how the system
actually does what it does, or why the pressures must be what they must
be, or what actually causes them to go "off".


I worked strictly as a grunt for an HVAC guy for a summer, many years
ago. With only that training, which consisted mostly of peering over the
shoulder of my boss, I got to where I can (and do) repair all of my own
R-22 and R-134a appliances. I cannot work on systems using azeotropes,
because I can't buy them, and don't intend to get licensed; so I can't
fix any R410a problems that require refrigerant. I also cannot buy R-22,
but I don't need it (dried and filtered propane works fine, if you don't
have R22), and R134a is still available without an EPA certificate and a
licensed "master" operator supervising you.

Unlike the "pros", I don't deliberately vent systems to the air. I built
a small reclamation unit. It saves me the guilt of doing what I see
professionals do almost every time I hire one. It also captures some
refrigerant, which, if it's not been exposed to a compressor burn-out
(and thus containing acid), can be filtered, dried, and returned to
service. (and yes, safely. The "pros" would have you believe that _any_
reclaimed refrigerant will instantly destroy anything you put it in)

Everything I've needed to know to stay "current" on what I can legally do
is available on-line.

I don't repair anyone's equipment but my own. I will, however, diagnose
friends' systems for them, so they don't get bilked by the repair tech
when he finally shows up.

LLoyd

On 9/21/2010 10:01 PM, Ignoramus25344 wrote:
On 2010-09-22, Lloyd E. Sponenburghlloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
fired this volley in
:

Just curious why are you so ****y, a slow day? Customers not calling?

no... he's a "refrigeration professional", and doesn't want anyone to
figure out the four or five pages of knowlege that constitutes his
"professional advantage" over ordinary laymen.

Does that refrigeration knowledge amount to so little? Any textbook
you would recommend?

I cannot believe that, after fixing and retrofitting my Bridgeport
Interact CNC mill, I cannot ever properly diagnose a bad Sears
refrigerator. I started knowing nothing about CNC mills and now,
thanks to all the great help I got, I have a working CNC machine.

Maybe I can fix the fridge too.

i

I don't see why not, I remember fixing a CNC machine that had a
Toshiba bubble memory unit in the controller. It was a hoot,
when I told the kid at the electronic supply house about the
bubble memory unit, I got a blank stare and a "duh?".

TDD

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...
On 2010-09-22, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus25344 fired this volley in
:

Just curious why are you so ****y, a slow day? Customers not calling?

no... he's a "refrigeration professional", and doesn't want anyone to
figure out the four or five pages of knowlege that constitutes his
"professional advantage" over ordinary laymen.

Does that refrigeration knowledge amount to so little? Any textbook
you would recommend?

I cannot believe that, after fixing and retrofitting my Bridgeport
Interact CNC mill, I cannot ever properly diagnose a bad Sears
refrigerator. I started knowing nothing about CNC mills and now,
thanks to all the great help I got, I have a working CNC machine.

Maybe I can fix the fridge too.

I

a lot of the so called magic is pretty obvious and available on line - if
you recall any of your thermo courses you can of course do the equations,
but these devices really are pretty simple.