"Ignoramus25344" wrote

Maybe I can fix the fridge too.

i

Something tells me you'll figure it out. I see HVAC guys all the time who
can't figure out how to pour **** out of a boot, yet they are HVAC guys, and
by their accounts, and certificates, are damn fine ones at that.

It's just too bad that the HVAC dynasty does not give out certificates and
testimonials for "parts changers."

"Lady, I don't have an idea what's wrong, but I will keep changing parts as
long as your bank card clears. And if that fails, there's always the, "It
needs a new compressor." Which means someone who actually knows what they
are doing will be by to work on the system.

HTH

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
Ignoramus25344 fired this volley in
:

Just curious why are you so ****y, a slow day? Customers not calling?

no... he's a "refrigeration professional", and doesn't want anyone to
figure out the four or five pages of knowlege that constitutes his
"professional advantage" over ordinary laymen.

LLoyd

Good one, Lloyd!

Harold

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.


And a month ago I said...

Get a refrigerator thermometer (kitchen stuff department of stores), then
keep an eye on the temperature.

If there was a lot of water which came out from having it off while you
fixed it, and this happens again in a month or so, suspect the
defrost/heater/timer.

On 2010-09-21, Bill wrote:
"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.


And a month ago I said...

Get a refrigerator thermometer (kitchen stuff department of stores), then
keep an eye on the temperature.

If there was a lot of water which came out from having it off while you
fixed it, and this happens again in a th or so, suspect the
defrost/heater/timer.


\

Thanks

As a matter of fact, there was not much water (none that I could see)
that came out.

i

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...
On 2010-09-21, Bill wrote:
"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.


And a month ago I said...

Get a refrigerator thermometer (kitchen stuff department of stores), then
keep an eye on the temperature.

If there was a lot of water which came out from having it off while you
fixed it, and this happens again in a th or so, suspect the
defrost/heater/timer.


\

Thanks

As a matter of fact, there was not much water (none that I could see)
that came out.

i

To test this theory, put all your food in ice chests and turn off the fridge
for 24 hours with the door open. Then start it back up and see if it works
for another month.

There are also pans in the bottom of fridges to catch water. See if that is
full after 24 hours.

If it is "frost free", these have a timer which shuts off the compressor,
then turns on a heating element on the freezer coils. This defrosts the
freezer portion every so often..

The timer or the heating element can stop working.

You may be able to remove a panel in the freezer portion and see the coils
if they are hidden. If you see a big block of ice, then that is the problem.
Air can not be circulated into the refrigerator if ice is blocking the air
flow.

"Bill" wrote in message
...

To test this theory, put all your food in ice chests and turn off the fridge
for 24 hours with the door open. Then start it back up and see if it works
for another month.

There are also pans in the bottom of fridges to catch water. See if that is
full after 24 hours.

If it is "frost free", these have a timer which shuts off the compressor,
then turns on a heating element on the freezer coils. This defrosts the
freezer portion every so often..

The timer or the heating element can stop working.

You may be able to remove a panel in the freezer portion and see the coils
if they are hidden. If you see a big block of ice, then that is the problem.
Air can not be circulated into the refrigerator if ice is blocking the air
flow.


If icing is the problem there is also a thermostat in series with the heating
element. If that is bad the heater will not function. BTDT.
Art

On 2010-09-21, Bill wrote:
To test this theory, put all your food in ice chests and turn off the fridge
for 24 hours with the door open. Then start it back up and see if it works
for another month.

There are also pans in the bottom of fridges to catch water. See if that is
full after 24 hours.

If it is "frost free", these have a timer which shuts off the compressor,
then turns on a heating element on the freezer coils. This defrosts the
freezer portion every so often..

The timer or the heating element can stop working.

You may be able to remove a panel in the freezer portion and see the coils
if they are hidden. If you see a big block of ice, then that is the problem.
Air can not be circulated into the refrigerator if ice is blocking the air

I tried restarting yesterday after 12-14 hours. It did not start. I
will start again today, after 36 or so hours, and will see. I am not
expecting much.

i

On Sep 21, 3:18*pm, Ignoramus25344 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25344.invalid wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

i

Friday in Illinois the tax rebate is on again for one day, and I think
Best Buy is giving another 15% off, thats 30% off, you would be a fool
not to get a new frige, or get a repairman and fix that dying horse.

On 09/21/2010 03:18 PM, Ignoramus25344 wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

Yeah, I thought this might happen!

Well, this thermistor capacitor start scheme sounds pretty crummy to me.
If the power gets a short glitch, even a couple cycles of the line, that
may allow the compressor to nearly stop when there is high pressure in
the condenser side. Then, power comes back and the thermistor is hot,
so it doesn't restart. There is a thing called a "sinpac" switch,
currently manufactured by Stearns. It uses a voltage sensing chip and
a triac to control the start winding. It is made as a replacement for
shot centrifugal switches, but is also great on motors where such a
switch can't be used, like refrigerator compressors. At least through
the channels I got one a while ago, they are expensive, but I'll bet a
refrigeration shop will carry them much cheaper.

There are also electronic modules, often used in the heating/cooling
trade, to prevent "short-cycling". They are just wired in series with
a motor, and will shut it off for some number of minutes whenever there
is a power interruption.

Of course, you may just have a defective compressor, and it is slowly
seizing up, and will eventually lock up for good.

I converted a central air conditioning system from capillary tube to
expansion valve some years ago, and had problems with the compressor
failing to start. I installed a "hard start kit" from my friendly local
A/C supply shop. This was a potential relay and a BIG starting cap.
It augments the run cap when starting, and greatly increases starting
torque. It solved the problem. I don't know if this is the kind of
problem this unit is having, and you might have to instrument it to find
out what the cause is. It could be a bad compressor, it could be a
bad starting system design, it could be a program problem in the
computerized controller that is occasionally trying to stop and restart
the compressor too quickly, it could be a mechanical timer on the
defrost that has that same effect, or it could even be low line voltage
or a worn-out wall socket making poor contact.

The friendly local A/C supplier isn't so friendly anymore, I have to
show them my EPA "green card" to get them to sell anything to me.
The trade prices on stuff just blows me away. I needed a run cap for
our current A/C unit a couple years ago, showed them my green card, and
got a HUGE run cap for about $7.50. I walked in there expecting to pay
$50 for it.

Jon

"Ignoramus25344" wrote in message
...
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

i

My life experience (62 years so far) is that when refrigerators start acting
up, unless it's a fix that costs less than $50, it is cheaper to dump it and
get another. In today's market, nice fridges are cheap. About as much as a
compressor job, and the compressor repair man has a warranty that is good
until he's out of sight.

Just me.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Ignoramus25344 wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

i
Your motor has lack of lubrication and is seizing up. Since it's in a
sealed can you can't fix it. Putting lubrication in the coolant could
help but you can't do that either without unsoldering connections and
capturing the coolant and could cost more to fix than to throw out and
buy a new one.


--
LSMFT

I look outside this morning and everything was in 3D!

On 2010-09-21, LSMFT wrote:
Your motor has lack of lubrication and is seizing up. Since it's in a
sealed can you can't fix it. Putting lubrication in the coolant could
help but you can't do that either without unsoldering connections and
capturing the coolant and could cost more to fix than to throw out and
buy a new one.

I understand the implication of what you are saying, which is that it
is an expensive fix.

But just for my education, what exactly is wrong so that there is lack
of lubrication?

Say, why are the bearings in my 59 year old compressor working great
and this fridge is dead at a relatively young age? (well, I know why
my compressor is going well, because the pumpbearings are pressure
lubricated).

Are there any "well made" refrigerators where things are designed to
last long?

i

Ignoramus15834 fired this volley in
:

But just for my education, what exactly is wrong so that there is lack
of lubrication?

Say, why are the bearings in my 59 year old compressor working great
and this fridge is dead at a relatively young age? (well, I know why
my compressor is going well, because the pumpbearings are pressure
lubricated).

Are there any "well made" refrigerators where things are designed to
last long?



A chip of grunge in one of the oiler holes on one of the crank bearings
or the motor tailshaft bearing can cause the problem. It can happen in
older units, too, but less often because everything was over-built back
when.

It's not a stretch for a guy with your skills to change the compressor --
say, with one from a 20-year-old fridge. You'd need the tools to
evacuate the system. You'd need to install access valves. You'd need to
either find a "friendly" with some R-22, or replace the charge with
propane.

But generally, a fridge isn't worth the work, when you can get another
one for under $100.

LLoyd

On 9/22/2010 5:47 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

But just for my education, what exactly is wrong so that there is lack
of lubrication?

Say, why are the bearings in my 59 year old compressor working great
and this fridge is dead at a relatively young age? (well, I know why
my compressor is going well, because the pumpbearings are pressure
lubricated).

Are there any "well made" refrigerators where things are designed to
last long?



A chip of grunge in one of the oiler holes on one of the crank bearings
or the motor tailshaft bearing can cause the problem. It can happen in
older units, too, but less often because everything was over-built back
when.

It's not a stretch for a guy with your skills to change the compressor --
say, with one from a 20-year-old fridge. You'd need the tools to
evacuate the system. You'd need to install access valves. You'd need to
either find a "friendly" with some R-22, or replace the charge with
propane.

But generally, a fridge isn't worth the work, when you can get another
one for under $100.

LLoyd

I've yet to see an old refrigeration unit that used R22 since R12 was
the first of its type. I use something called R416a in place of R12
and it's more efficient, takes less refrigerant to do the same job
and it runs a lower head pressure which makes it good for old systems
because it puts less of a load on them. Oh yea, it's a drop in, no oil
change necessary.

TDD

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

Its a freakin Kenmore.... call Sears and have a guy come out and fix it, or
you can quit screwing around and buy a new one.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:56:03 -0500, Steve wrote:

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

Its a freakin Kenmore.... call Sears and have a guy come out and fix it, or
you can quit screwing around and buy a new one.

His time isn't worth anything. He'd rather be the first person on the
block with a fridge that cost him five grand than pay $200 for labor.

On 2010-09-22, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:56:03 -0500, Steve wrote:

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

Its a freakin Kenmore.... call Sears and have a guy come out and fix it, or
you can quit screwing around and buy a new one.

His time isn't worth anything. He'd rather be the first person on the
block with a fridge that cost him five grand than pay $200 for labor.

That could be true. I once made a homemade control for a welding
machine. It was MIG, stick and plasma capable and welded pretty good
(though it was not as convenient to use as an industrial welder like
Miller).

Anyway, when I calculated the amount of little parts, doodads, and my
time at a VERY conservative rate, the time investment in the welder
control was so enormous that at something like $20 per hour, I could
have used this time to buy the nicest brand new Miller welder out
there.

But the difference between making that weld control, versus fixing the
fridge, is that when I was asking about various specifics, I got
educational, useful answers, instead of screaming and howling like I
get from some (but not all) losers that seem to hail from alt.hvac. I,
obviously, always welcome any useful ideas that would come from
constructively minded HVACers.

i

On 22-Sep-10 04:18, Ignoramus25344 wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

How old is it? Does it have enough room to vent its heat?

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.35.4
^ ^ 19:55:01 up 25 days 22:02 1 user load average: 1.08 1.13 1.15
�借貸! ��騙! ��交! �打交! �打劫! �自殺! 請考慮綜� (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

On 2010-09-22, Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 22-Sep-10 04:18, Ignoramus25344 wrote:
If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

How old is it? Does it have enough room to vent its heat?


5 years old or so, yes it has room to vent.

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/hvac/Re...ain-42178-.htm
Jasprt2 wrote:
I had a similar experience - turned out to be the cooling fan motor - not
the relay or the compressor.

Same symptom - compressor would start, run for a few then kick off.
replaced the fan motor and presto.

If yours does not have a cooling fan, try cleaning the dust from the coils.





Ignoramus25344 wrote:




If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge
started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

However, since yesterday it started having trouble again. Letting it
cool down for a couple of hours would get it started, only to find it
unable to restart a few hours later.

What could be the culprit here? Unlike last time, there is no
emergency, as we have less food and all our food easily fits in
another fridge.

The refrigerator is a Kenmore made by Amana with fancy electronic
front control.

i



-------------------------------------

On 2010-09-22, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:18:40 -0500, Ignoramus25344
wrote:

If you recall, a month or so ago I posted about a refrigerator not
working.

The compressor unit in it would keep trying to start and would be
unable to start, tripping an overload relay.

After some "time off" to let the system cool, the fridge started just
fine. I also replaced a capacitor and relay (which was very cheap and
possibly not needed) and thought that I was done.

Many people can fix almost anything in their home, but when it comes
to refrigeration, it's not a DIY repair. You already replaced the
capacitor and relay. About the only other thing a homeowner can fix
is a defective control, bad wiring, or the cooling fan underneath.
After that, it's time for the pros, and they are expensive. You can
likely buy a used fridge much cheaper than the repair. Once a
compressor dies, its just too costly to replace it. A friend just had
a chest freezer die. I went over and tested the relay. It was
sucking way too much amperage, and would cut out in seconds. I told
him the compressor was shot. He called the pros the next day. He
paid them $50 for the same advice I gave him. They said there is a
dead short inside the compressor windings, and the cost to replace the
compressor was around $350 more. He was ****ed he had to pay the $50
service call. Well, I told him, and I didn't charge him anything. He
just bought a used freezer for $125, but lost all the food that he
had.

It sounds like you did all you could. Kiss it goodbye and get another
fridge, unless you want to spend as much as a new fridge to replace
the compressor.


Well, not what I really like to hear, but this may be very pertinent.

Last night, after the fridge sat without electricity (and food) for
over 12 hours, it still would not start -- the motor would buzz and
then the overload relay would turn it off. I left it unplugged.

Just to be dead sure, I will try again tonight when I get home from
work -- that would be 36 hours of sitting without power. I do not
expect any different result.

At that point, if the fridge would not start, this is for sure not ANY
kind of cooling issue, so I will just replace it with another fridge.

i

Ignoramus15834 fired this volley in
:


At that point, if the fridge would not start, this is for sure not ANY
kind of cooling issue, so I will just replace it with another fridge.

i

Ig... it's not unreasonable for a new start cap to fail. Electronic
parts tend to fail in two regimes -- "infant mortality", and "old age".
If they get past four or five months, they usually last for their rated
lives.

Also, I think you said you replaced the start relay. If it actually IS a
relay (because they call those abominable PTC things "relays", too), then
it's easy to tell if it's working. If, instead, you open the thing up
and find a coin-sized disk of unobtainium with two leads, it's a PTC
thermistor, and prone to all sorts of ills. Replace it with a real
potential relay, and you'll lick the problem (if it's failed).

Even a loose connection between the "relay" and the hermet connector on
the compressor can cause the symptoms you see.

LLoyd