"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have just
introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The legislation
would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb contained in
Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

On Sep 18, 2:24*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have just
introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The legislation
would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb contained in
Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Americans need to embrace new technology instead of always resisting
it. You should donate your incandescent lamps to the nearest Amish
family you know.
Jobs lost are all down to the fake capitalism practised not only on
America but throughout the world. China in this case, which provides
products at ridiculously cheap prices from it's slave labour
factories.
It's all about destroying the economy of the West. Tax barriers need
to be eracted until they let their currency float.

On 9/18/2010 3:02 AM, harry wrote:
On Sep 18, 2:24 am, wrote:
"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have just
introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The legislation
would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb contained in
Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Americans need to embrace new technology instead of always resisting
it. You should donate your incandescent lamps to the nearest Amish
family you know.
Jobs lost are all down to the fake capitalism practised not only on
America but throughout the world. China in this case, which provides
products at ridiculously cheap prices from it's slave labour
factories.
It's all about destroying the economy of the West. Tax barriers need
to be eracted until they let their currency float.

You're clueless Harry. Legislation was pushed by big business, General
Electric, and cfl bulbs are coming from China.

Personally, I'll embrace technology that saves me money, as cfl's do.
I just don't want a government holding my hand, forcing my choice.
I'm sure this is a foreign concept to those in the UK.

On Sep 18, 7:44*am, Frank wrote:
On 9/18/2010 3:02 AM, harry wrote:





On Sep 18, 2:24 am, *wrote:
"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have just
introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The legislation
would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb contained in
Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Americans need to embrace new technology instead of always resisting
it. You should donate your incandescent lamps to the nearest Amish
family you know.
Jobs lost are all down to the fake capitalism practised not only on
America but throughout the world. China in this case, which provides
products at ridiculously cheap prices from it's slave labour
factories.
It's all about destroying the economy of the West. *Tax barriers need
to be eracted until they let their currency float.

You're clueless Harry. *Legislation was pushed by big business, General
Electric, and cfl bulbs are coming from China.

Personally, I'll embrace technology that saves me money, as cfl's do.
I just don't want a government holding my hand, forcing my choice.
I'm sure this is a foreign concept to those in the UK.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

saving energy is great for the environment and saves americans money
too.

less power used is fewer new power plants ,,,,,''

FLs are a win win for everyone.

its not that CFLs come from china........ its that near nothing can be
manufactured in the US.........

HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.

--
LSMFT

wrote:

saving energy is great for the environment and saves americans money
too.

less power used is fewer new power plants ,,,,,''

FLs are a win win for everyone.


Everyone except:
* Those involved in the manufacture of normal bulbs, that is, the companies
that make normal bulbs and their stockholders,
* The people who transport and sell normal bulbs,
* The people and companies who provide the raw materials for normal bulbs,
* The people and companies who build, maintain, and operate energy
generating facilities,
* The people who mine or otherwise obtain the fuel for electric generation
facilities,
* The companies and people who transport the fuel for these electric
generation facilities,
* And the ordinary, unaffiliated, people who are being deprived of their
choices via executive fiat and the decisions of their betters.

If one is devoted to the efficacy of CFLs, there are two ways to get
universal usage: 1) let the market decide, 2) let the government decide.
Most can demonstrate that the "market" is seldom wrong, whereas the
"government" is seldom right.

On Sep 18, 12:02*am, harry wrote:
On Sep 18, 2:24*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have just
introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The legislation
would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb contained in
Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Americans need to embrace new technology instead of always resisting
it. You should donate your incandescent lamps to the nearest Amish
family you know.
Jobs lost are all down to the fake capitalism practised not only on
America but throughout the world. China in this case, which provides
products at ridiculously cheap prices from it's slave labour
factories.
It's all about destroying the economy of the West. *Tax barriers need
to be eracted until they let their currency float.

Your “embrace of new technology” is like embracing Santa Claus. New
flash Santa Claus doesn’t exist.
It really amuses me when people who don’t have the slightest
understanding of technology advocate their hair-brained idiotic
environmentalist ideas without doing any research, without
understanding the economics and consequences of the benefits versus
drawbacks or losses. They have a childishly naïve understanding of
technology. They are incapable of comprehending that we simply DO NOT
yet have the technology to accomplish what they want. Take these so
called “eco bulbs” for instance.
1. Have you really done the HONEST research into their longevity. I
don’t think so. They never last as long as what the package says.
2. Have you done the HONEST research as to the harm that is inflicted
on the environment in manufacturing and disposal versus the benefits
when compared to the manufacturing harm and disposal of incandescent
bulbs? They contain mercury as an example.
3. Have you done the HONEST research if these light bulbs will be able
to replace the incandescent in every application, in every fixture, in
every circumstance. Sometimes they fall apart in your hand while
you’re trying to screw them into the socket and you can’t use a dimmer
with them are some examples.
4. Have you done the HONEST research into the economics of cost of the
light bulb versus the savings? Anything other than an 8 watt bulb
which is about as effective as the light bulb in your oven costs at
least seven dollars. How much in electricity will I be saving if I
paid so much for it?
5. They will not fit into many fixtures designed for incandescent
bulbs so you have to buy whole new fixtures. Have you done the HONEST
research as to how much the environment is going to be harmed by the
manufacture and replacement of all those light fixtures so they can
use these idiotic bulbs?

On Sep 18, 1:55*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:09:37 -0400, LSMFT wrote:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.

There is no *GREEN* alternative. *CFLs save energy, but pollute much
worse with their mercury content. *At the same time they produce
crappy lighting, which has a lousy color tone, do not come on
instantly to full brightness, and are worthless in cold unheated
buildings. *Add to that the fact they cost 10 to 20 times the price of
incandescent bulbs, and despite their false claims that they last
longer, this is really not true. *If that's not enough, they are a
higher risk for causing fires. *

Now add up the negatives, against the one positive, and this new
technology is a sick joke at best. *Most of us want to save energy
both from an environmental standpoint as well as saving money.
However, the increased price of bulbs will never be justified in the
savings of power, and the environmental damage of the mercury
nullifies or is likely worse than the savings in electrical
production.

Until they come up with a safe, cost effective, user pleasant and
environmentally safe alternative, we gain nothing and lose more.
CFLs are not the answer and never will be. *On the other hand, LED
lighting might have something to offer, but the technology is not yet
ready for home and industry lighting. *Their flashlight lighting has
finally shown to be superior in many ways. *Yet we have the government
jumping the gun with their bans and restrictions, which is not only
forcing people to use inferior lighting, but is also unconstitutional,
when they are forcing people to use specific technology, without
allowing the individual free choice. *I would fully agree with them
educating the public about energy use and alternatives, as well as
funding the advancement of more efficient bulbs and other electrical
devices, but when they BAN products that work, and FORCE lousy
alternatives, it's time for the public to strike back. *

Will this become another "prohibition", except not liquor, but light
bulbs? *Will underground companies begin to make bootleg bulbs? *Or
import them from other countries thru the black market? *YES, this
WILL occur. *

Jw

CFLs in the UK can be got for half the price of incandescent lamps. I
saw some recently for $0.07 each. (in packs of ten). Colours are much
improved to what they were.

On Sep 18, 4:02*pm, Molly Brown wrote:
On Sep 18, 12:02*am, harry wrote:





On Sep 18, 2:24*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have just
introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The legislation
would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb contained in
Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Americans need to embrace new technology instead of always resisting
it. You should donate your incandescent lamps to the nearest Amish
family you know.
Jobs lost are all down to the fake capitalism practised not only on
America but throughout the world. China in this case, which provides
products at ridiculously cheap prices from it's slave labour
factories.
It's all about destroying the economy of the West. *Tax barriers need
to be eracted until they let their currency float.

Your “embrace of new technology” is like embracing Santa Claus. New
flash Santa Claus doesn’t exist.
It really amuses me when people who don’t have the slightest
understanding of technology advocate their hair-brained idiotic
environmentalist ideas without doing any research, without
understanding the economics and consequences of the benefits versus
drawbacks or losses. They have a childishly naïve understanding of
technology. They are incapable of comprehending that we simply DO NOT
yet have the technology to accomplish what they want. Take these so
called “eco bulbs” for instance.
1. Have you really done the HONEST research into their longevity. I
don’t think so. They never last as long as what the package says.
2. Have you done the HONEST research as to the harm that is inflicted
on the environment in manufacturing and disposal versus the benefits
when compared to the manufacturing harm and disposal of incandescent
bulbs? They contain mercury as an example.
3. Have you done the HONEST research if these light bulbs will be able
to replace the incandescent in every application, in every fixture, in
every circumstance. Sometimes they fall apart in your hand while
you’re trying to screw them into the socket and you can’t use a dimmer
with them are some examples.
4. Have you done the HONEST research into the economics of cost of the
light bulb versus the savings? Anything other than an 8 watt bulb
which is about as effective as the light bulb in your oven costs at
least seven dollars. How much in electricity will I be saving if I
paid so much for it?
5. They will not fit into many fixtures designed for incandescent
bulbs so you have to buy whole new fixtures. Have you done the HONEST
research as to how much the environment is going to be harmed by the
manufacture and replacement of all those light fixtures so they can
use these idiotic bulbs?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have some CFLs in my house ten yars old. If you need to check their
life write the date on the bulb when you put it in.
I have never hada prblem fitting CFL into any light fitting.
They are all taken to the recycle centre in Europe on failure and the
mercury is recovered. as is virtually every piece of manufactured
equipment. Our local recycle center has more than forty containers
fordifferent stuff to be recycled.

On 9/18/2010 11:46 AM, harry wrote:
On Sep 18, 1:55 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:09:37 -0400, wrote:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.

There is no *GREEN* alternative. CFLs save energy, but pollute much
worse with their mercury content. At the same time they produce
crappy lighting, which has a lousy color tone, do not come on
instantly to full brightness, and are worthless in cold unheated
buildings. Add to that the fact they cost 10 to 20 times the price of
incandescent bulbs, and despite their false claims that they last
longer, this is really not true. If that's not enough, they are a
higher risk for causing fires.

Now add up the negatives, against the one positive, and this new
technology is a sick joke at best. Most of us want to save energy
both from an environmental standpoint as well as saving money.
However, the increased price of bulbs will never be justified in the
savings of power, and the environmental damage of the mercury
nullifies or is likely worse than the savings in electrical
production.

Until they come up with a safe, cost effective, user pleasant and
environmentally safe alternative, we gain nothing and lose more.
CFLs are not the answer and never will be. On the other hand, LED
lighting might have something to offer, but the technology is not yet
ready for home and industry lighting. Their flashlight lighting has
finally shown to be superior in many ways. Yet we have the government
jumping the gun with their bans and restrictions, which is not only
forcing people to use inferior lighting, but is also unconstitutional,
when they are forcing people to use specific technology, without
allowing the individual free choice. I would fully agree with them
educating the public about energy use and alternatives, as well as
funding the advancement of more efficient bulbs and other electrical
devices, but when they BAN products that work, and FORCE lousy
alternatives, it's time for the public to strike back.

Will this become another "prohibition", except not liquor, but light
bulbs? Will underground companies begin to make bootleg bulbs? Or
import them from other countries thru the black market? YES, this
WILL occur.

Jw

CFLs in the UK can be got for half the price of incandescent lamps. I
saw some recently for $0.07 each. (in packs of ten). Colours are much
improved to what they were.

No way. Has to be a government subsidy.

And, just to get your goat, Harry, when I've had cfl's go bad, I put
them in the trash

On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 07:44:42 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 9/18/2010 3:02 AM, harry wrote:
On Sep 18, 2:24 am, wrote:
"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have just
introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The legislation
would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light bulb contained in
Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and Security Act of
2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Americans need to embrace new technology instead of always resisting
it. You should donate your incandescent lamps to the nearest Amish
family you know.
Jobs lost are all down to the fake capitalism practised not only on
America but throughout the world. China in this case, which provides
products at ridiculously cheap prices from it's slave labour
factories.
It's all about destroying the economy of the West. Tax barriers need
to be eracted until they let their currency float.

You're clueless Harry. Legislation was pushed by big business, General
Electric, and cfl bulbs are coming from China.

Personally, I'll embrace technology that saves me money, as cfl's do.
I just don't want a government holding my hand, forcing my choice.
I'm sure this is a foreign concept to those in the UK.
The current information about "dirty electricity" and EMI sensitivity
sure makes one wonder what posessed the legislators to ban
incandescents in favour of CFLs.
Electronic ballasts and SMPs are the biggest culprits in the fiasco -
and in particular the CHEAP CRAP coming out of the far east.

LSMFT wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.


So is there an alternative for an incandescent oven bulb or will be
forced to live in a world of dark ovens?

So is there an alternative for an incandescent oven bulb or will be
forced to live in a world of dark ovens?

there are lots of exemptions oven bulbs are one........

as to the long list of downsides i admit when CFLs first came out they
werent real good, short life, slow start, poor color, high price etc.

but over the last few years they have dramatically improved.......

I think the over reaction to the ban is more about posters mad that
government is intruding in their lives than the real bulb issue...

On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:00:35 -0700, Ned Flanders
wrote:

LSMFT wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.


So is there an alternative for an incandescent oven bulb or will be
forced to live in a world of dark ovens?

On 9/18/2010 8:09 AM, LSMFT wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.


Soon as they make affordable CFLs that work in my dimmer fixtures, or in
my exposed-to-subzero outside lights, or that are rated for rough
service, I'll buy them. Nothing against CFLs, and I use them in the
'vanilla' indoor fixtures, but they can't replace incandescents for all
applications yet.

--
aem sends...

On Sep 18, 5:07*pm, Frank wrote:
On 9/18/2010 11:46 AM, harry wrote:





On Sep 18, 1:55 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:09:37 -0400, *wrote:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.

There is no *GREEN* alternative. *CFLs save energy, but pollute much
worse with their mercury content. *At the same time they produce
crappy lighting, which has a lousy color tone, do not come on
instantly to full brightness, and are worthless in cold unheated
buildings. *Add to that the fact they cost 10 to 20 times the price of
incandescent bulbs, and despite their false claims that they last
longer, this is really not true. *If that's not enough, they are a
higher risk for causing fires.

Now add up the negatives, against the one positive, and this new
technology is a sick joke at best. *Most of us want to save energy
both from an environmental standpoint as well as saving money.
However, the increased price of bulbs will never be justified in the
savings of power, and the environmental damage of the mercury
nullifies or is likely worse than the savings in electrical
production.

Until they come up with a safe, cost effective, user pleasant and
environmentally safe alternative, we gain nothing and lose more.
CFLs are not the answer and never will be. *On the other hand, LED
lighting might have something to offer, but the technology is not yet
ready for home and industry lighting. *Their flashlight lighting has
finally shown to be superior in many ways. *Yet we have the government
jumping the gun with their bans and restrictions, which is not only
forcing people to use inferior lighting, but is also unconstitutional,
when they are forcing people to use specific technology, without
allowing the individual free choice. *I would fully agree with them
educating the public about energy use and alternatives, as well as
funding the advancement of more efficient bulbs and other electrical
devices, but when they BAN products that work, and FORCE lousy
alternatives, it's time for the public to strike back.

Will this become another "prohibition", except not liquor, but light
bulbs? *Will underground companies begin to make bootleg bulbs? *Or
import them from other countries thru the black market? *YES, this
WILL occur.

Jw

CFLs in the UK can be got for half the price of incandescent lamps. I
saw some recently for $0.07 each. (in packs of ten). *Colours are much
improved to what they were.

No way. *Has to be a government subsidy.

And, just to get your goat, Harry, when I've had cfl's go bad, I put
them in the trash - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Possibly a loss leader. The gov, here does subsidise "green"
electricity. Ie from PV and wind etc.
Most of our CFL come from Eastern Europe (=Mexico in USA)

On Sep 18, 6:00*pm, Ned Flanders wrote:
LSMFT wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.

So is there an alternative for an incandescent oven bulb or will be
forced to live in a world of dark ovens?

Halogen.

On Sep 18, 8:37*pm, aemeijers wrote:
On 9/18/2010 8:09 AM, LSMFT wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.

Soon as they make affordable CFLs that work in my dimmer fixtures, or in
my exposed-to-subzero outside lights, or that are rated for rough
service, I'll buy them. Nothing against CFLs, and I use them in the
'vanilla' indoor fixtures, but they can't replace incandescents for all
applications yet.

--
aem sends...

They are available for dimmer switches now and you can ones that can
be dimmed with an ordinary light switch.Expensive though.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/59891/...ing-BC-20w-CFL

On Sep 19, 8:24*am, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:52:22 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

I have some CFLs in my house ten yars old. *If you need to check their
life write the date on the bulb when you put it in.
I have never hada prblem fitting CFL into any light fitting.
They are all taken to the recycle centre in Europe on failure and the
mercury is recovered. *as is virtually every piece of manufactured
equipment. *Our local recycle center has more than forty containers
fordifferent stuff to be recycled.

Interesting you mentioned this. *Back around 2001 or 2002 I purchased
my first CFL bulb. *It was about 8 inches long and just came out
straight, bent over at the tip, and went straight back to the base.
It looked pretty stupid in my semi-fancy kitchen light fixture,
because it stuck way out and being at an angle, it came down into the
room a fair amount. *But I wanted a light that I could leave on for
extended periods of time and not run up the electric bill. *

For personal reasons as well as safety, I want a light that is always
on near the entry door into the kitchen from outside. *This was that
light, and it remained on all night, every night, and often times
during the day if I forgot to shut it off. *It worked 365 days a year
from the date of purchase until December of 2009, when I had a new
refrigerator delivered. *The delivery man wheeled in the new fridge in
a cardboard box, and smashed the bulb because it hung so low. *If not
for that accident, it would likely still work today.

Seemed those old ones lasted a very long time.

As for these new spiral ones, I have yet to find one that lasts any
longer than an incandescent bulb. *Some last less hours. *I even had
one explode, whereas when I flipped on the light switch, there was a
shower of sparks and cloud of smoke. *After shutting off the switch
immediately I found a base that has bulged, turned black, and split
down the side. *The glass part was sitting loose. *(This was a
bathroom fixture where the bulb points UPWARD, otherwise the glass
part would have fallen to the floor and smashed. *I has another one
make a loud pop and emit smoke, but not nearly as dramatic as that
first one. *I had a 3rd one that was dead right out of the box.

Sure, I have bought incandescent bulbs that burn out the first time
they are turned on, but at 25 to 50 cents a piece, it's no big deal.
But at $5 or more per bulb for CFLs, I sure as hell am going to bitch,
and when a shower of sparks blasts off in my house landing on
flammable materials like drapes and paper, I am furious because I
could have had a major fire. *Over the years I've seen many standard
bulbs fail, and not one of them has ever even come close to causing a
fire. *The flash inside the glass globe and die. *No dangers involved..

I'll admit that any products can be defective from the store, or fail
prematurely, but when they become dangerous, I'm very concerned, and I
have now used many CFL bulbs, and none of the new ones last long.

Well, I've been using then for arond twelve years, they were expensive
years ago. They did seem to last better, I still have most of them
(the ones with the massive armoured glass cover) I have only had a
couple fail lately but no explosions so far. I don't have any spiral
ones, just the ones with multiple bends.

Molly Brown wrote:


4. Have you done the HONEST research into the economics of cost of the
light bulb versus the savings? Anything other than an 8 watt bulb
which is about as effective as the light bulb in your oven costs at
least seven dollars. How much in electricity will I be saving if I
paid so much for it?

Well, I've got a 13 watt CFL in lamp that used to use a 60w incandescent. It is
on a timer, running 8 hours a day. I'm saving .376 kwh per day, or 11.28 kwh
per month.

At my electric rate of $0.108 per kwh, I'm saving $1.2184 per month. Since I
paid $6.73 for the CFL 4 years ago, I got paid back in 3.17 months. My net
savings since have been $51.75 for an annual return on investment of 290%. My
stocks should do so well.

-- Doug

In ,
Molly Brown wrote, which I edited for space:

On Sep 18, 12:02=A0am, harry wrote:

1. Have you really done the HONEST research into their longevity. I
don't think so. They never last as long as what the package says.

I have heavy experience with them, and with some exceptions notably to
avoid, in my experience over 95% of the time they give most of their
claimed life.

2. Have you done the HONEST research as to the harm that is inflicted
on the environment in manufacturing and disposal versus the benefits
when compared to the manufacturing harm and disposal of incandescent
bulbs? They contain mercury as an example.

Modern CFLs of 60 watt equivalent or more reduce mercury pollution even
if they are broken and all their mercury is sent to the environment after
only half their claimed life. This is because about half of electricity
generation in USA is from burning coal, the biggest source of mercury
pollution.

3. Have you done the HONEST research if these light bulbs will be able
to replace the incandescent in every application, in every fixture, in
every circumstance.

I know for a fact that they are not good everywhere that incandescents
are used. However, they are good for most places where incandescents are
used. Applications where CFLs are bad for replacing incandescents have an
extremely high rate of using incandescents of types exempted from the
upcoming ban.

Sometimes they fall apart in your hand while you're trying to screw
them into the socket

If you overtighten them while screwing them by the tubing rather than by
the base region.

and you cant use a dimmer with them are some examples.

Dimmable ones are a little common already.

4. Have you done the HONEST research into the economics of cost of the
light bulb versus the savings? Anything other than an 8 watt bulb
which is about as effective as the light bulb in your oven costs at
least seven dollars. How much in electricity will I be saving if I
paid so much for it?

A $7 CFL lasting 5,000 hours and reducing power consumption by 45 watts,
at USA national average residential electricity rate of 11 cents per KWH,
saves $17.75 even if the incandescents cost nothing to obtain.

Meanwhile, I find it easy to find CFLs $7 or less in up to "100 watt
incandescent equivalence" (26 watts), and $6 or less in up to "60 watt
incandescent equivalence" (13-15 watts). Even in 1-packs in major chain
drugstores and supermarkets.

In packs of 3 or more, they usually cost near or under $5 apiece,
sometimes around $2 apiece.

5. They will not fit into many fixtures designed for incandescent
bulbs so you have to buy whole new fixtures.

"60 watt equivalent" spirals that fit everywhere a 60 watt A19 fits are
common. I have yet to find a fixture that is rated to allow a 100 watt
A19, that a 100 watt A19 fits in, and that fairly common 26 watt spirals
do not fit in.

Have you done the HONEST research as to how much the environment is
going to be harmed by the manufacture and replacement of all those light
fixtures so they can use these idiotic bulbs?

Let me put it this way...

OSRAM, who manufactures incandescent, fluorescent (both CFL and long),
and LED screw-in light bulbs did a study that determined that 98-plus % of
the life cycle energy consumption of incandescents, CFLs, and LED screw-in
light bulbs from manufacture through disposal, including transportation, is
from the electricity consumed during their rated life.

As for fixtures - I have yet to see any residential fixture replacement
being done to accomodate replacement of incandescents with CFLs, and not a
lot in commercial buildings either.
--
- Don Klipstein )

In article , wrote:
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:52:22 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

I have some CFLs in my house ten yars old. If you need to check their
life write the date on the bulb when you put it in.
I have never hada prblem fitting CFL into any light fitting.
They are all taken to the recycle centre in Europe on failure and the
mercury is recovered. as is virtually every piece of manufactured
equipment. Our local recycle center has more than forty containers
fordifferent stuff to be recycled.

Interesting you mentioned this. Back around 2001 or 2002 I purchased
my first CFL bulb. It was about 8 inches long and just came out
straight, bent over at the tip, and went straight back to the base.
It looked pretty stupid in my semi-fancy kitchen light fixture,
because it stuck way out and being at an angle, it came down into the
room a fair amount. But I wanted a light that I could leave on for
extended periods of time and not run up the electric bill.

For personal reasons as well as safety, I want a light that is always
on near the entry door into the kitchen from outside. This was that
light, and it remained on all night, every night, and often times
during the day if I forgot to shut it off. It worked 365 days a year
from the date of purchase until December of 2009, when I had a new
refrigerator delivered. The delivery man wheeled in the new fridge in
a cardboard box, and smashed the bulb because it hung so low. If not
for that accident, it would likely still work today.

Seemed those old ones lasted a very long time.

As for these new spiral ones, I have yet to find one that lasts any
longer than an incandescent bulb. Some last less hours.

I use plenty of spirals, and have had few die in less than 4,000 hours,
with most of the young-diers lasting around 3500 hours.

Most early mortality of spiral CFLs in my experience appears to me
associated with at least one of the following:

1) Use of one over 14 watts in a recessed ceiling fixture or a small
enclosed fixture. (Most name brand ones 19 watts or less can usually
last reasonably long there, though some good chance less than full life.)

2) Use of ones of the Lights of America brand or dollar store stool
specimens.
(I have made little use of L.O.A. in recent years due to a large number
of disappopintments in life expectancy and a very high rate of falling
short of claimed light output in my experience. They may have improved
without me knowing for all I know.)

3) Use of a bad batch of 25 watt ones made around 2001

4) Use of them in motion sensor lights or other places where they are
switched on and off a lot

5) Use of non-dimmer-rated ones with dimmers or other electronic
controllers

I even had one explode, whereas when I flipped on the light switch,
there was a shower of sparks and cloud of smoke. After shutting off the
switch immediately I found a base that has bulged, turned black, and
split down the side. The glass part was sitting loose. (This was a
bathroom fixture where the bulb points UPWARD, otherwise the glass
part would have fallen to the floor and smashed.

First time I ever heard of one other than a dollar store stool specimen
behaving that badly. What brand was it? When was it purchased?

I has another one make a loud pop and emit smoke, but not nearly as
dramatic as that first one.

That was an occaisional failure mode of earlier spiral CFLs, before the
manufacturers started using better capacitors that can take the heat
encountered in actual use of them.

I had a 3rd one that was dead right out of the box.

I had a dollar store stool specimen or two that was DOA, but never
a single one of dozens of non-dollar-store spiral CFLs that I have
purchased in my life. I also don't know anyone who has mentioned a
non-dollar-store spiral CFL being DOA.

Sure, I have bought incandescent bulbs that burn out the first time
they are turned on, but at 25 to 50 cents a piece, it's no big deal.
But at $5 or more per bulb for CFLs, I sure as hell am going to bitch,
and when a shower of sparks blasts off in my house landing on
flammable materials like drapes and paper, I am furious because I
could have had a major fire. Over the years I've seen many standard
bulbs fail, and not one of them has ever even come close to causing a
fire. The flash inside the glass globe and die. No dangers involved.

I'll admit that any products can be defective from the store, or fail
prematurely, but when they become dangerous, I'm very concerned, and I
have now used many CFL bulbs, and none of the new ones last long.
--
- Don Klipstein )

In , wrote:
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:09:37 -0400, LSMFT wrote:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.

There is no *GREEN* alternative. CFLs save energy, but pollute much
worse with their mercury content.

Largely not true, since most CFLs have less mercury than they save the
environment from by reduction of coal burning (or reducing the need to
build more coal fired power plants).

At the same time they produce crappy lighting, which has a lousy color
tone,

I find it easy to get CFLs with color tone that I like, often even
better than I liked incandescents.

do not come on instantly to full brightness,

Most bare spirals in my experience aren't too bad in that area. (Ones
with outer bulbs are worse in that area, though they take colder
temperatures better.)

and are worthless in cold unheated buildings.

Ones in enclosed fixtures or with outer bulbs have a high rate of doing
well there, though then they need time to warm up.

Add to that the fact they cost 10 to 20 times the price of
incandescent bulbs,

They save money anyway. And at supermarkets, the ratio is more like 6
times.

and despite their false claims that they last longer, this is really not
true.

I have heavy experience with them. On average, my CFLs last about 5
times as long as incandescents.

If that's not enough, they are a higher risk for causing fires.

How many fires are caused by UL listed CFLs other than dollar store
stool specimens? For that matter, CFLs even with those lumped in were
never the biggest fire hazard of lighting types because that distinction
is of halogens.

SNIP repetition and straying from the topic
--
- Don Klipstein )

In article , Ned Flanders wrote:
LSMFT wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.


So is there an alternative for an incandescent oven bulb or will be
forced to live in a world of dark ovens?

The ones used in ovens are of kinds exempt from the ban.

The ban has many exemptions:

http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html
--
- Don Klipstein )

In , aemeijers wrote:
On 9/18/2010 8:09 AM, LSMFT wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.


Soon as they make affordable CFLs that work in my dimmer fixtures,

I am finding those easily enough now.
or in my exposed-to-subzero outside lights,

Reflectorized flood bulbs are exempt from the incandescent ban.

or that are rated for rough service,

Rough and vibration service incandescents areexempt from the ban.

http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html

I'll buy them. Nothing against CFLs, and I use them in the
'vanilla' indoor fixtures, but they can't replace incandescents for all
applications yet.
--
- Don Klipstein )

On 9/19/2010 5:06 PM, Don Klipstein wrote:
, aemeijers wrote:
On 9/18/2010 8:09 AM, LSMFT wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

"Representatives Joe Barton, Michael Burgess, and Marsha Blackburn have
just introduced the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act (or BULB). The
legislation would repeal the de facto ban on the incandescent light
bulb
contained in Subtitle B of Title III of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../09/027238.php

Just stop manufacturing incandescent bulbs. Eventually they will
disappear. No sense using them if there is a green alternative.


Soon as they make affordable CFLs that work in my dimmer fixtures,

I am finding those easily enough now.

I'll have to look again. I need candelabra base, flame shaped, though.
Unless I can find a kitchen table hanging fixture with a down-light like
the piece of junk I have, of course. The upper sockets on it are shot,
but I need that down-facing reflector bulb to have enough light to read
the paper while I eat. (Yeah, I live alone- why do you ask?)
or in my exposed-to-subzero outside lights,

Reflectorized flood bulbs are exempt from the incandescent ban.

I hadn't even thought about my floods, since I turn them on maybe once a
year, at Halloween. I was talking about the 'coach' lights by the front
and back door, and the motion-sensor 'coach' lights on either side of
the garage door. I'm tempted to replace them all with generic
modern-style fixtures since they don't really fit the style of the
house, and the lenses over the non-aimable motion sensors have
self-destructed from facing the setting sun for 20 years or so. I
probably should have snaked wires to the corners of the house that don't
have floods (which is most of them), before I had the attic insulation
upgraded. No desire to go wading around up there at this point- it would
be a major PITA to rake all that smooth again.

I almost never bother to turn the outside lights on anymore anyway.
Since they put a bigger bulb in the streetlight right over the end of my
driveway, and the neighbor put a lamp at the peak of his shiny new pole
barn, I can't even see stars at night unless there is a power failure. :^(

--
aem sends....