I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

On Sep 15, 2:49*pm, Fillet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:43:10 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:





DerbyDad03 wrote:
I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

My "dual flush" toilet tends to plug up on a big "dump", unless I use the longer
flush. I had the same problem with its predecessor, a 30 or more year old high
volume toilet, but it didn't have an option for a longer flush. If your drains
are unusually convoluted, you will likely have more problems.

The lesser flush seems to not push waste all the way out of the toilet on the
new one. The problem often shows up on the nest usage. I just use the longer
flush on big loads, and have no problem.

You clowns should try reading (assuming you know how) the
instructions. The whole idea is that the partial flush is for liquids
and the full flush is for solids.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You (clown) should try reading what you are responding to.

Didja miss the post where I specifically said that this is not a dual
flush toilet?

As Judy Collins and Frank Sinatra once sang...

"Quick, send in the clowns.
Don't bother, they're here."

Well, at least one.

On Sep 15, 2:07*pm, "Bill" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second...

Does it come with an instruction manual of any sort?

I must admit I have never read an operating or instruction manual for a
toilet! The "wording" in that might be interesting if such a manual exists.

Here is how to use a bidet...http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Bidet

"Does it come with an instruction manual of any sort?"

Installation only.

You know, level it, wax ring, flush the fiill valve, etc. Standard
stuff.

The only thing it said about "flushing" was to adjust the chain if it
didn't siphon but it siphons even with the "partial" flush.

I was just hoping to get it working like the upstairs toilet where no
holding period is required.

On Sep 15, 12:49*pm, Fillet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:43:10 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:



DerbyDad03 wrote:
I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

My "dual flush" toilet tends to plug up on a big "dump", unless I use the longer
flush. I had the same problem with its predecessor, a 30 or more year old high
volume toilet, but it didn't have an option for a longer flush. If your drains
are unusually convoluted, you will likely have more problems.

The lesser flush seems to not push waste all the way out of the toilet on the
new one. The problem often shows up on the nest usage. I just use the longer
flush on big loads, and have no problem.

You clowns should try reading (assuming you know how) the
instructions. The whole idea is that the partial flush is for liquids
and the full flush is for solids.

==
I like the "boom" of the full flush...at least you know that it is
working properly and the bowl is clean. Saving water is important in
many areas so I guess these new toilets will be around from now on. An
instruction manual might be helpful though for the "old-timers" who
haven't adjusted to the new reality of water scarcity.
==

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:22:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sep 15, 2:07*pm, "Bill" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second...

Does it come with an instruction manual of any sort?

I must admit I have never read an operating or instruction manual for a
toilet! The "wording" in that might be interesting if such a manual exists.

Here is how to use a bidet...http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Bidet

"Does it come with an instruction manual of any sort?"

Installation only.

You know, level it, wax ring, flush the fiill valve, etc. Standard
stuff.

The only thing it said about "flushing" was to adjust the chain if it
didn't siphon but it siphons even with the "partial" flush.

I was just hoping to get it working like the upstairs toilet where no
holding period is required.

Replace the flush valve with a valve that will flush the tank. Some
flappers have a small hole in the back to unload the air quickly.
These can be made to flush fully with a dab of hot glue over the
unloader hole (if it is this type).
--
Mr.E

On Sep 15, 3:50*pm, Fillet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:18:40 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03





wrote:
On Sep 15, 2:49*pm, Fillet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:43:10 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:
I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

My "dual flush" toilet tends to plug up on a big "dump", unless I use the longer
flush. I had the same problem with its predecessor, a 30 or more year old high
volume toilet, but it didn't have an option for a longer flush. If your drains
are unusually convoluted, you will likely have more problems.

The lesser flush seems to not push waste all the way out of the toilet on the
new one. The problem often shows up on the nest usage. I just use the longer
flush on big loads, and have no problem.

You clowns should try reading (assuming you know how) the
instructions. The whole idea is that the partial flush is for liquids
and the full flush is for solids.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You (clown) should try reading what you are responding to.

Didja miss the post where I specifically said that this is not a dual
flush toilet?

Yes, I saw where you said that. You are a mistaken clown.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With the power of the internet available to all that wish to take
advantage of its search capabilities, why would you possibly want to
make yourself look like such a fool?

Do you do it just for the reaction? Read: Are you nothing more than a
troll...with a big red nose, a fuzzy wig and big floppy shoes?

If I must, here's a link to the toilet I installed. Feel free to point
out my mistake as it relates to it being a "dual flush" model.

While you're there, do yourself (and us) a favor:

Search the American Standard website for "dual flush" and take note of
the completely different product line that is specifically noted as
"dual flush".

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/p...l.aspx?id=2135

On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

I'd be thinking chain is too long -- so that the handle doesn't lift
the flapper enough.

My best guess is that's not enough water, and the sewer will
eventually clog with residues that didn't get moved far enough down
the line.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Roy"
wrote in message
...


==
Your chain is not adjusted properly...probably too short.
==

Thanks for the field report. I'd never have known. I still don't think
that's enough water for solids. You may have one of the world's first
true "flush twice" models.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03"
wrote in message
...


I tried adjusting the chain in both directions to no avail.

That's why I called AS. They said it's supposed to work that way.

You didn't know? Governments like holding periods. Be glad it's not 15
days, like guns.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03"
wrote in message
...

I was just hoping to get it working like the upstairs toilet where no
holding period is required.

On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:
On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:



I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

As I pointed to our furry friend Fillet a bit earlier, the AS toilet I
installed is not designated as such nor is there anything on their
website, in the manual that came with my toilet or on the placard in
the store indicating a Dual Flush feature of my model.

AS does indeed carry a line of FloWise Dual Flush toilets with the
flush button on top, but that is a different product line than the
Cadet 3 flush system and the standard handle of my toilet. The AS Dual
Flush models all seem to use 1.6/0.8 GPF and are designated as Dual
Flush. I don't see any 1.28 GPF Dual Flush models on their site.

When I called AS Customer Service and asked them if I had to hold the
handle down for a second or 2 to flush it, he said yes and made no
mention of Dual Flush or of liquids vs. solids.

I gotta stand by my claim that I do not have a Dual Flush toilet, I
merely have a toilet where the flap closes too early if you don't hold
the handle down. I did find a couple of reviews on the web where the
owners made mention of the same issue. It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.

On Sep 16, 1:48*am, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Sep 15, 4:47 pm, Red wrote:



On Sep 15, 12:07 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

As I pointed to our furry friend Fillet a bit earlier, the AS toilet I
installed is not designated as such nor is there anything on their
website, in the manual that came with my toilet or on the placard in
the store indicating a Dual Flush feature of my model.

AS does indeed carry a line of FloWise Dual Flush toilets with the
flush button on top, but that is a different product line than the
Cadet 3 flush system and the standard handle of my toilet. The AS Dual
Flush models all seem to use 1.6/0.8 GPF and are designated as Dual
Flush. I don't see any 1.28 GPF Dual Flush models on their site.

When I called AS Customer Service and asked them if I had to hold the
handle down for a second or 2 to flush it, he said yes and made no
mention of Dual Flush or of liquids vs. solids.

I gotta stand by my claim that I do not have a Dual Flush toilet, I
merely have a toilet where the flap closes too early if you don't hold
the handle down. I did find a couple of reviews on the web where the
owners made mention of the same issue. It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.

Yea we got that ALREADY...I have a new AS Cadet(40 bucks at HD) that
operates the same way..Their Customer Service answered your question as did
several others on here but you are to thick headed to believe it..If it bugs
you that much , rip it out and return it and get one with the little sticker
that says Dual Flush...

I "believe" everyone here except the one that suggested I "read the
instructions" and called me a "mistaken clown".

My question to Red was just that - a question.

On Sep 16, 6:22*am, Fillet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:23:51 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "





wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:49*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:

On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work..
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

As I pointed to our furry friend Fillet a bit earlier, the AS toilet I
installed is not designated as such nor is there anything on their
website, in the manual that came with my toilet or on the placard in
the store indicating a Dual Flush feature of my model.

AS does indeed carry a line of FloWise Dual Flush toilets with the
flush button on top, but that is a different product line than the
Cadet 3 flush system and the standard handle of my toilet. The AS Dual
Flush models all seem to use 1.6/0.8 GPF and are designated as Dual
Flush. I don't see any 1.28 GPF Dual Flush models on their site.

When I called AS Customer Service and asked them if I had to hold the
handle down for a second or 2 to flush it, he said yes and made no
mention of Dual Flush or of liquids vs. solids.

I gotta stand by my claim that I do not have a Dual Flush toilet, I
merely have a toilet where the flap closes too early if you don't hold
the handle down. I did find a couple of reviews on the web where the
owners made mention of the same issue. It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Have you opened the cover and looked to see what happens differently
when you hold the lever down for a longer period of time???? *That
just might give you a clue as to what to do to change the flushing
timing

Clues are useless for the OP. They just confuse and confound him.

To fix this problem, someone will have to come to his house and write

DUAL FLUSH TOILET with a Sharpie pen in really big block letters on
top of the toilet where he can see it. Maybe set up a spot light on
it, just to be sure he sees it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Because I would be man enough to admit it if I were wrong, I decided
to call the manufacturer again and be very specific with my wording.
That way there will be no confusion as to whether or not you should
come over and write DUAL FLUSH TOILET on my fixture. I was not this
specific in my first call - I merely asked if I needed to hold the
handle down for a second or two to get a full flush and that is
exactly what the rep responded to.

Feel free to try this exercise yourself. All of the information you
need is included below.

Dialing: 800-442-1902
Ring. Ring.
- Good Morning. Thank you for calling American Standard. My name is
Ashley. How may I help you?
- Me: I have a couple of questions about my toilet. May I give you
the model number?
- Ashley: Yes, please.
- Me: 2447.128.020
- Ashley: When did you purchase this toilet?
- Me: Last Saturday.
- Ashley. Thank you. What is your question?
- Me: Is that model considered a Dual Flush toilet?
- Ashley: No, it is not.
- Me: Why do I get a partial flush if I hold the handle down briefly,
but a full flush if I hold the handle down for a couple of seconds?
- Ashely: The 3 inch flush valve requires that you hold the handle
down a little bit longer for all the water to leave the tank. If you
don't, the flapper closes before you get a full flush. But, no sir, it
is not a Dual Flush model. We do have Dual Flush models if you are
interested.
- Me: No, but thank you very much, Ashley. Have a nice day.
- Ashely: Thank you for calling American Standard.

I don't know what else to say...oh wait, yes I do!

On a dual flush toilet, the handle is designed differently than a
single flush toilet. Whether it be 2 push buttons on the top, a
horizontal handle that gets lifted up for partial flushes and pushed
down for full or a vertical handle that get moved either clockwise or
counter-clockwise depending on which flush you want.

In addition, the innards are specifically designed so that the handle
or button acts differently upon it depending on which way it is moved
or which button is pushed. You can open a dual flush toilet and *see*
the difference since it designed to be controlled by 2 separate
triggering actions.

Model number 2447.128.020 has nothing more than a standard handle, an
oversized flapper, an overflow tube and your basic fill valve with
float. It is the exact same configuration that has been used in
standard, single flush toilets for decades.

I know of no Dual Flush toilet that uses the standard flapper and
float valve and just lets the flapper close "early" if you don't hold
the handle long enough.

You can write Dual Flush on my toilet if you want, but it'll just
serve as a reminder of how wrong you are.

On Sep 16, 9:55*am, Fillet wrote:
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:42:37 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03





wrote:
On Sep 16, 6:22*am, Fillet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:23:51 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "

wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:49*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:

On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

As I pointed to our furry friend Fillet a bit earlier, the AS toilet I
installed is not designated as such nor is there anything on their
website, in the manual that came with my toilet or on the placard in
the store indicating a Dual Flush feature of my model.

AS does indeed carry a line of FloWise Dual Flush toilets with the
flush button on top, but that is a different product line than the
Cadet 3 flush system and the standard handle of my toilet. The AS Dual
Flush models all seem to use 1.6/0.8 GPF and are designated as Dual
Flush. I don't see any 1.28 GPF Dual Flush models on their site.

When I called AS Customer Service and asked them if I had to hold the
handle down for a second or 2 to flush it, he said yes and made no
mention of Dual Flush or of liquids vs. solids.

I gotta stand by my claim that I do not have a Dual Flush toilet, I
merely have a toilet where the flap closes too early if you don't hold
the handle down. I did find a couple of reviews on the web where the
owners made mention of the same issue. It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Have you opened the cover and looked to see what happens differently
when you hold the lever down for a longer period of time???? *That
just might give you a clue as to what to do to change the flushing
timing

Clues are useless for the OP. They just confuse and confound him.

To fix this problem, someone will have to come to his house and write

DUAL FLUSH TOILET with a Sharpie pen in really big block letters on
top of the toilet where he can see it. Maybe set up a spot light on
it, just to be sure he sees it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Because I would be man enough to admit it if I were wrong, I decided
to call the manufacturer again and be very specific with my wording.
That way there will be no confusion as to whether or not you should
come over and write DUAL FLUSH TOILET on my fixture. I was not this
specific in my first call - I merely asked if I needed to hold the
handle down for a second or two to get a full flush and that is
exactly what the rep responded to.

Feel free to try this exercise yourself. All of the information you
need is included below.

Dialing: 800-442-1902
Ring. Ring.
- Good Morning. Thank you for calling American Standard. My name is
Ashley. How may I help you?
- Me: I have a couple of questions about my toilet. May I give you
the model number?
- Ashley: Yes, please.
- Me: 2447.128.020
- Ashley: When did you purchase this toilet?
- Me: Last Saturday.
- Ashley. Thank you. What is your question?
- Me: Is that model considered a Dual Flush toilet?
- Ashley: No, it is not.
- Me: Why do I get a partial flush if I hold the handle down briefly,
but a full flush if I hold the handle down for a couple of seconds?
- Ashely: The 3 inch flush valve requires that you hold the handle
down a little bit longer for all the water to leave the tank. If you
don't, the flapper closes before you get a full flush. But, no sir, it
is not a Dual Flush model. We do have Dual Flush models if you are
interested.
- Me: No, but thank you very much, Ashley. Have a nice day.
- Ashely: Thank you for calling American Standard.

I don't know what else to say...oh wait, yes I do!

On a dual flush toilet, the handle is designed differently than a
single flush toilet. Whether it be 2 push buttons on the top, a
horizontal handle that gets lifted up for partial flushes and pushed
down for full or a vertical handle that get moved either clockwise or
counter-clockwise depending on which flush you want.

In addition, the innards are specifically designed so that the handle
or button acts differently upon it depending on which way it is moved
or which button is pushed. You can open a dual flush toilet and *see*
the difference since it designed to be controlled by 2 separate
triggering actions.

Model number 2447.128.020 has nothing more than a standard handle, an
oversized flapper, an overflow tube and your basic fill valve with
float. It is the exact same configuration that has been used in
standard, single flush toilets for decades.

I know of no Dual Flush toilet that uses the standard flapper and
float valve and just lets the flapper close "early" if you don't hold
the handle long enough.

You can write Dual Flush on my toilet if you want, but it'll just
serve as a reminder of how wrong you are.

Dual Flush as a label merely means that there are two flush modes. One
is a smaller and less forceful flush, and addtional action is required
to get a "full" flush. Regardless of how your toilet is labeled, that
is exactly what your toilet does, dopey.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How far are you willing stretch logic so that you don't have to admit
you are wrong?

I said I would have been willing to admit I was wrong had my specific
questions been answer differently. Why can't you?

Are you saying that any toilet with a worn flapper that closes
incorrectly would suddenly be considered a "dual flush" toilet - as
defined by the industry?

By your logic, why wouldn't AS market this model as a dual flush - as
opposed to specifically saying that it isn't - and raise the price
based on that feature?

My Dad has a full size old fashion toilet from back in the 60's. For
years it required the user to hold the handle down to get a full
flush. If you didn't, the flapper closed too early for all the water
to leave the tank. Did he have the first ever "dual flush" model? By
your logic, yes. By anyone who has ever replaced or adjusted the
innards of a toilet, no.

Google "dual flush" and you'll find that every model of dual flush
toilet specifically mentions the "two flush modes" in question. Google
my model and you'll find that there is no mention of that feature or
capability.

Drop it. (I know you can't, so I will.)

Fillet wrote:

Dual Flush as a label merely means that there are two flush modes. One
is a smaller and less forceful flush, and addtional action is required
to get a "full" flush.

That's certainly the reason I called mine a "dual flush".

It just makes too much sense. Manufacturers might think otherwise in their
advertising.

Old "single flush" toilets emptied all the water no mater how long you held the
lever.

On Sep 15, 5:49*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:



On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?


It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.

No, not designated as such. However as you state, the operation of
the large flush valve makes it *act* like a dual flush system. That's
normal operation, not a fault. Remember that this total design was
from the Japanese where saving water is a way of life. They did not
want the tank to empty with each flush unless necessary. Some
American designs took a different approach and called theirs dual
flush. No matter what you do or don't call it, if it acts, walks,
sounds like a duck..........

Red

On Sep 16, 5:40*pm, Red wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:49*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:

On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.

No, not designated as such. *However as you state, the operation of
the large flush valve makes it *act* like a dual flush system. That's
normal operation, not a fault. *Remember that this total design was
from the Japanese where saving water is a way of life. They did not
want the tank to empty with each flush unless necessary. *Some
American designs took a different approach and called theirs dual
flush. *No matter what you do or don't call it, if it acts, walks,
sounds like a duck..........

Red- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Remember that this total design was from the Japanese where
saving water is a way of life."

Some say it was the Australians, but let's not bicker on that point:

http://www.biotechnology-innovation....echnology.html

"If it acts, walks, sounds like a duck..."

Don't we usually end that line with "it's a duck?" ;-)

However, in the case of my toilet, not only don't I call it a duck,
the manufacturer doesn't call it a duck and the EPA doesn't call it a
duck:

Choose Toilets under Product Category and enter 2447.128 in the Model
Number search field at this site:

http://www.epa.gov/watersense/product_search.html

It's listed as a Single Flush unit.

Do they have ducks, in Australia?

"If it walks like a Koala, and talks like a Koala......"

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03"
wrote in message
...


Some say it was the Australians, but let's not bicker on that point:

http://www.biotechnology-innovation....echnology.html

"If it acts, walks, sounds like a duck..."

Don't we usually end that line with "it's a duck?" ;-)

However, in the case of my toilet, not only don't I call it a duck,
the manufacturer doesn't call it a duck and the EPA doesn't call it a
duck:

Choose Toilets under Product Category and enter 2447.128 in the Model
Number search field at this site:

http://www.epa.gov/watersense/product_search.html

It's listed as a Single Flush unit.

The Stucco site is not a help forum, it's an
*advertising* forum that invades real forums
(like "alt.home.repair", part of "usenet")
parasitically in order to generate free
advertising for itself, which continually
advances its search engine placement, thereby
increasing its own revenue through its click-
through advertising commissions.

So the first thing you should do is write them
an email and tell them to quit spamming.

Then try to find your way here through proper
channels. Please do a google search on "Usenet"
and post the regular way.



--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"toilet guy" m wrote
in message news:d5183$4c978200$45499b77