On Sep 16, 6:22*am, Fillet wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:23:51 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "





wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:49*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:

On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work..
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

As I pointed to our furry friend Fillet a bit earlier, the AS toilet I
installed is not designated as such nor is there anything on their
website, in the manual that came with my toilet or on the placard in
the store indicating a Dual Flush feature of my model.

AS does indeed carry a line of FloWise Dual Flush toilets with the
flush button on top, but that is a different product line than the
Cadet 3 flush system and the standard handle of my toilet. The AS Dual
Flush models all seem to use 1.6/0.8 GPF and are designated as Dual
Flush. I don't see any 1.28 GPF Dual Flush models on their site.

When I called AS Customer Service and asked them if I had to hold the
handle down for a second or 2 to flush it, he said yes and made no
mention of Dual Flush or of liquids vs. solids.

I gotta stand by my claim that I do not have a Dual Flush toilet, I
merely have a toilet where the flap closes too early if you don't hold
the handle down. I did find a couple of reviews on the web where the
owners made mention of the same issue. It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Have you opened the cover and looked to see what happens differently
when you hold the lever down for a longer period of time???? *That
just might give you a clue as to what to do to change the flushing
timing

Clues are useless for the OP. They just confuse and confound him.

To fix this problem, someone will have to come to his house and write

DUAL FLUSH TOILET with a Sharpie pen in really big block letters on
top of the toilet where he can see it. Maybe set up a spot light on
it, just to be sure he sees it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Because I would be man enough to admit it if I were wrong, I decided
to call the manufacturer again and be very specific with my wording.
That way there will be no confusion as to whether or not you should
come over and write DUAL FLUSH TOILET on my fixture. I was not this
specific in my first call - I merely asked if I needed to hold the
handle down for a second or two to get a full flush and that is
exactly what the rep responded to.

Feel free to try this exercise yourself. All of the information you
need is included below.

Dialing: 800-442-1902
Ring. Ring.
- Good Morning. Thank you for calling American Standard. My name is
Ashley. How may I help you?
- Me: I have a couple of questions about my toilet. May I give you
the model number?
- Ashley: Yes, please.
- Me: 2447.128.020
- Ashley: When did you purchase this toilet?
- Me: Last Saturday.
- Ashley. Thank you. What is your question?
- Me: Is that model considered a Dual Flush toilet?
- Ashley: No, it is not.
- Me: Why do I get a partial flush if I hold the handle down briefly,
but a full flush if I hold the handle down for a couple of seconds?
- Ashely: The 3 inch flush valve requires that you hold the handle
down a little bit longer for all the water to leave the tank. If you
don't, the flapper closes before you get a full flush. But, no sir, it
is not a Dual Flush model. We do have Dual Flush models if you are
interested.
- Me: No, but thank you very much, Ashley. Have a nice day.
- Ashely: Thank you for calling American Standard.

I don't know what else to say...oh wait, yes I do!

On a dual flush toilet, the handle is designed differently than a
single flush toilet. Whether it be 2 push buttons on the top, a
horizontal handle that gets lifted up for partial flushes and pushed
down for full or a vertical handle that get moved either clockwise or
counter-clockwise depending on which flush you want.

In addition, the innards are specifically designed so that the handle
or button acts differently upon it depending on which way it is moved
or which button is pushed. You can open a dual flush toilet and *see*
the difference since it designed to be controlled by 2 separate
triggering actions.

Model number 2447.128.020 has nothing more than a standard handle, an
oversized flapper, an overflow tube and your basic fill valve with
float. It is the exact same configuration that has been used in
standard, single flush toilets for decades.

I know of no Dual Flush toilet that uses the standard flapper and
float valve and just lets the flapper close "early" if you don't hold
the handle long enough.

You can write Dual Flush on my toilet if you want, but it'll just
serve as a reminder of how wrong you are.